New York Times Reviews Yaris...

[bronsin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/automobiles/autoreviews/toyotas-bottom-feeder-finally-makes-some-waves.html?hpw&_r=0

[Hershey]

Good find . Wish they would bring the YARIS hybrid here . Would consider it . The "C" seems lower and not much headroom in the rear . Getting old , can't do the limbo as in the younger days .

[Yarflana]

I wonder what the increased weight is between a gas Yaris vs. a hybrid Yaris, same exact model/build. Gotta be a lot.

On another note, I have a lot of choice words for the whole "goin' green" stuff, but will choose to retain a genteel flavor to my rhetoric.

[Hershey]

Battery does add weight . Helps with traction since it's right over the rear wheels . We had a 'Prius and that did very well in the snow . Took it to vacant parking lot in a snow storm and couldn't get the rear to come around . Owners claim the "C' is a great in the snow at Priuschat .

[DMZ]

"... with just 106 horsepower and 103 pound-feet of torque, Toyota’s hatchback is among the slowpokes of its class."

I never could figure out why HP and torque are even used as review criteria in the sub-compact/economy class. What do I care if I can not keep up with a 140 HP Sonic Turbo? I am not Dominic Toretto.

[fnkngrv]

Wow...they really love to bash on the Yaris that is for sure. Perhaps they need to get with the program themselves...let them see Garm's LB, my sedan, etc and then say that it doesn't have potential. NY Times have once again proven that they are among the most pompous elite out there. There are just too many things in this article to make comments on to even bother. Personally I find that I prefer the 07-11 models over the 12. It has lost its originality.


Here is the BIGGEST glaring issue of the article imho...with how they have built the first page of the article it doesn't lend to pushing folks to get to page 2.

[bronsin]

Yes they even had to trash the ECHO! Perhaps the best small car ever made. Examples with 150k on them are going for $5000 now. But they dont get it.

All they care about is "What do people think of me when they see me in this car?"

They are pathetic!

That someone could want a cheap, well built, reliable, car that gets high mpg doesnt seem to occur to them. Edmunds was very similiar in their review of both Yaris and ECHO.

That their owner surveys raved about the cars they were oblivious to. The great unwashed public is UNWORTHY!

I think their basic reasoning is....its not a BMW.

[nookandcrannycar]

Wow...they really love to bash on the Yaris that is for sure. Perhaps they need to get with the program themselves...let them see Garm's LB, my sedan, etc and then say that it doesn't have potential. NY Times have once again proven that they are among the most pompous elite out there. There are just too many things in this article to make comments on to even bother. Personally I find that I prefer the 07-11 models over the 12. It has lost its originality.


Here is the BIGGEST glaring issue of the article imho...with how they have built the first page of the article it doesn't lend to pushing folks to get to page 2.

I agree with almost everything in your post (I do like the '12 and '13 SE 5-door better than the 2nd Gen 5-door (except for the dash) :biggrin:). Even through the compliments, the author can (IMO) barely hide his disdain for cars that (if you caught him in an unguarded moment) he'd probably say are 'designed for the bridge and tunnel crowd'.

[nookandcrannycar]

All they care about is "What do people think of me when they see me in this car?"

They are pathetic!


I agree that this attitude is pathetic, but the people are not necessarily pathetic. The author may not have diverse enough life experiences to have anything but a myopic point of view. If that is the case, in some ways I feel sorry for him.

The phrase 'all they care about' might be a bit hyperbolic. There are good, largely down to earth, people who still have a hard time getting away from that way of life completely. My aunt is a wonderful, sweet, caring person. She has volunteered at the nursing home my grandmother spent her last days in for over 20 years, visiting with the patients and helping the women 'feel pretty'. She will go to a simple (what her friends might call hole in the wall) restaurant if she likes the food and or the location. She loves to be outside. She loves to walk. She reads the daily word and takes it to heart. She loves to spend time with her grandchildren.....BUT....at the same time, she worries about going to the grocery store without looking as perfect as possible (and she's lived in the same place for 35 years). When her son (my cousin) got married, he and his wife paid for their own wedding and reception (their idea). The reception was at a place that was 'different than what was expected', and my aunt was worried about what some of her friends were going to think.

My grandmother (my aunt and my mother's mother) was the best person I have ever known. As my mother once put it, 'if your grandmother even thought she had possibly hurt someone's feelings it would ruin her day'. My grandmother was the most egalitarian person I have ever known, in every way possible. She would treat the person who cleaned her house and the CEO of a corporation in the same wonderful manner. She loved to laugh. She helped found several local charities. She loved her grandchildren, and welcomed all of our friends....BUT....at the same time she kept a book that listed her social events, what she wore, and who was there....so that no one (outside the family) would ever see her in the same outfit twice. I remember when her favorite salesperson at I. Magnin died, she panicked (she was indecisive re what to wear). My grandparent's house was so well built that if people were having a heated discussion inside, one couldn't hear them outside. The house was also on a fairly large lot, yet if my mother and I started to argue when visiting, my grandmother would say "Shhhh, the neighbors".

During the times when my parents weren't together, my dad had a fairly seedy life, so I got to see both extremes. In those moments, I was a bit self conscious about my dad's various situations, but I'm now glad I have that perspective. I find I'm more apprevciative and have more gratitude in my heart than many people I know.

P.S. Ultimately, My points are that: 1. Depending on your surroundings, there are varying degrees of difficulty removing oneself from the 'what will people think about....' mindset, and 2. That some people can still 'care what people think' in a few ways that are ultimately superficial (and don't really matter), but still be good, loving people.

[bronsin]

I didnt mean to highlight society as a whole just the people writing columns about cars! :biggrin:

Heres what they should say:

"I cant be seen in this car for social reasons but if you are interested in a small car this one has unequaled owner loyality and phenominal resale value!" :headbang:

[Amdkt7]

The same fools who want 100 mpg cars also want them to be able to screech away from stop lights, go 0-60 in six seconds, and be fully loaded with power options and features.

I really would like to have more power. The Rio does, and specifies the same FE, however, the lower total cost of ownership sold me. Mostly the fact that it has a timing chain.... and much higher reliability.

[enviri]

riight...talking shit about acceleration, while I merge in NY highways having no issue accelerating to 80. This reviewer guy MUST be one of those assholes that drive up the saw mill pkwy with his audi/bmw. That road is full of em.

[Amdkt7]

It could be quicker, but treated right the Yaris gets over 40 mpg, some even hit 50. You can not blow the doors off of bigger cars and get that kind of mileage. They are not comparing it to cars in it's class.

[nookandcrannycar]

I didnt mean to highlight society as a whole just the people writing columns about cars! :biggrin:

Heres what they should say:

"I cant be seen in this car for social reasons but if you are interested in a small car this one has unequaled owner loyality and phenominal resale value!" :headbang:

:bellyroll: , :headbang:

[Jason@SportsCar]

The same paper that just had some issues with Tesla after a "review" of the Model S. Hard to imagine a paper in NY could review any car other than a cab. :laugh:

[bentjazz]

The New York Times is evil....

[TOUGEghost]

They had good stuff to say about it on the second page. I guess not too many people made it that far?

[nookandcrannycar]

They had good stuff to say about it on the second page. I guess not too many people made it that far?

I read the whole article. IMO, the praise could be likened to standing over what you perceive to be a turd on the pavement while holding your nose and saying complimentary things about the perceived turd.

[why?]

Honestly, I think it was the most complementary review of the Yaris I've seen. Which while not much, says something. These people are use to driving ridiculously overpriced and over optioned vehicles with stupid amount of power.

"... with just 106 horsepower and 103 pound-feet of torque, Toyota’s hatchback is among the slowpokes of its class."

I never could figure out why HP and torque are even used as review criteria in the sub-compact/economy class. What do I care if I can not keep up with a 140 HP Sonic Turbo? I am not Dominic Toretto.

Because you still need to accelerate on to the highway. Where I live the on ramp could be 1/8 of a mile, while there are more than a few where the only 'on ramp' is the gigantic curve, and you don't get any straightaway to get up to speed.

Now if you actually have a brain, it is not a big deal. But so many people have to stop at the end of the curve, look, and then accelerate. That would get them killed where I live.

[Amdkt7]

I drive small cars because I am generally conservative. Big libs, like the NYT put us down, while they drive huge smog machines at unsafe speeds. Yes, the Yaris is quite low on the power scale, but look at how much more power the car has compared to economy cars from 10-15 years ago. Remember the VW bug had 42 HP.
The greenies want the rest of us to drive micro electric only cars, while they stick with SUVs. Nothing like watching an Obama bumper sticker zooming by at 90+ mph, on a huge SUV.

[bronsin]

I read the whole article. IMO, the praise could be likened to standing over what you perceive to be a turd on the pavement while holding your nose and saying complimentary things about the perceived turd.

:bellyroll:

But I note the NYT HAS been reviewing small cars like the Yaris lately. :eek:

Could the public be coming around to not paying $200 a month for gas? :iono:

Or not spending $30,000 which is probably what the average car costs nowadays? :iono:

I hope not because then I would have to find something else to rant about! :evil:

[NEexpat]

Like any or many reviews, the content exposes more insight to the "reviewer" than that of the reviewed.

All in all I don't think it was a bad review at all of the Yaris, pretty spot on actually. I like the "barstool" seating. I'm sick of getting out of a small car feeling like I climbing out of a bean-bag chair.

The reviewer likes the redesigned 2012 Yaris.


"Yaris, which was redesigned for 2012, most of Toyota’s subcompact sins are forgiven".


That tells me everything I need to know.

[nookandcrannycar]

These people are use to driving ridiculously overpriced and over optioned vehicles with stupid amount of power.

Which, IMO, wouldn't influence how they view the Yaris if they had a broader perspective of the people on our planet.

[nookandcrannycar]

:bellyroll:

But I note the NYT HAS been reviewing small cars like the Yaris lately. :eek:

Could the public be coming around to not paying $200 a month for gas? :iono:

Or not spending $30,000 which is probably what the average car costs nowadays? :iono:

I hope not because then I would have to find something else to rant about! :evil:

:thumbsup:. Perhaps more people in the tri-state area have finally 'had it up to here', what with Nanny Bloomberg's attempt to restrict soft drink size, Cuomo inspired gun control regs, and the newspaper in Westchester County pushing the map with all the gun permit holders on it.

[nookandcrannycar]

I'm sick of getting out of a small car feeling like I climbing out of a bean-bag chair.

The reviewer likes the redesigned 2012 Yaris.

And the 2012 and 2013 SE = seats that are (IMO) even more comfortable than the seats in the other trim levels (in addition to being height adjustable).

[nookandcrannycar]

Big libs, like the NYT

I wonder if they would 'still be standing', able to put forth the viewpoints they do, if it weren't for the financial support of Carlos Slim Helu.

The greenies want the rest of us to drive micro electric only cars, while they stick with SUVs. Nothing like watching an Obama bumper sticker zooming by at 90+ mph, on a huge SUV.

...or a limo with one of several hypocritical members of Congress (Senators and Reps) from California who have either been 'packing' for eons because of special treatment from local LEOs, or have armed security.

[bronsin]

"Yaris, which was redesigned for 2012, most of Toyota’s subcompact sins are forgiven".


That tells me everything I need to know.

Theres nothing wrong with the older Yaris's all the way back to 2007. Theyre great cars if you want a small car.

[NEexpat]

^ I love it when these "reviewers" talk about how happy they are with the redesign it is really code for .............................wait for it


redesign= moved gauge console back in front of driver


The new hood design blah blah blah could hit them in head and they couldn't care less.

The gauges are back where they belong that is all that matters. I so enjoy having my GPS and Ultra-Gauge in that driver side glove box, it's perfect for me.

Screw them.

[nookandcrannycar]

^ I love it when these "reviewers" talk about how happy they are with the redesign it is really code for .............................wait for it


redesign= moved gauge console back in front of driver


The new hood design blah blah blah could hit them in head and they couldn't care less.

The gauges are back where they belong that is all that matters. I so enjoy having my GPS and Ultra-Gauge in that driver side glove box, it's perfect for me.

Screw them.

:bellyroll:. Everything has to be in its 'intended' place :rolleyes:.

[Amdkt7]

I never owned the older instrument style, although I drove one once. I did not like the gauges in the center. But you do have a point about how it is hard to find mounting places for accessories.
My GPS mount is above, on the top of the dash. Same place I always had it. The XM radio is mounted under the dash, just above the stick shift.
I will probably add a scan gauge, and put it also up on the dash top.

[why?]

The center gauges get taking use to, but I wouldn't switch back because the glove box behind the steering wheel is wonderful. No one expects it is there, and it is a perfect place for a nav system.

[Amdkt7]

You are probably right. However, as an initial impression I was put off by the center location. I might have rejected the car on that bais, but if I had bought one like that I probably would have really liked it, just like you do.
I think as a general marketing decision it was the right thing to do, however, I think they could have provided a space for people like us to put things.
I don't need a huge tach and speedometer (especially one that goes all the way to 140 MPH). I want the eco, clock, and temp gauges to be bigger, and I want separate, dedicated readouts for odometer, trip, eco, and eco average.
I long for a seven inch multipurpose display, that could be used just like a tv monitor, standard HDMI input, that had selectable inputs. I want gps and other devices made with HDMI outputs so there is no end to the customization that could be achieved. One display for the radio, sat radio, gps, customer added backup camera.... built into the dash, protected from bright sun light. Less wires.

Would it not be so cool if there were slots under the dash that could house aftermarket devices that could use the display and the controls for one standard interface?

[STC]

I love my Yaris. I'm keeping my 2010 Yaris for 20 years. 10,000 mi a year, I'll be at 200k. Should last if given TLC. I wonder how much small cars (Yaris equivelant) will cost in 2030? $30-35k? I betcha work salaries will not increase with the level of everything else. :frown: Why, I may be finding alternate modes of transportation.

Cheers! :smile:

[nookandcrannycar]

I love my Yaris. I'm keeping my 2010 Yaris for 20 years. 10,000 mi a year, I'll be at 200k. Should last if given TLC. I wonder how much small cars (Yaris equivelant) will cost in 2030? $30-35k? I betcha work salaries will not increase with the level of everything else. :frown: Why, I may be finding alternate modes of transportation.

Cheers! :smile:

When I think of longevity, I think of the car that Tooter's White 2012 Yaris replaced.....a Hyundai that he and his wife had for 17 Years! Of course many Toyotas have probably hit that mark as well.

I love your quote from Frank Kent. It reminds me of a small part of the documentary Sicko. Michael Moore (probably one of the worlds biggest hypocrites (but I still thought the movie was informative,taken with a grain of salt)) or one of his surrogates was interviewing one of the guys who spearheaded the National Health Service in Britain. I can't remember that gent's name, but I'll never forget what he said. He said that in the U.S. the people/citizens are afraid of the government and in Britain and France the governments are afraid of the people/citizens.

[Thirty-Nine]

The thing I find funny is how so many people (both reviewers and auto enthusiasts) knock the four-speed auto. Really? Who cares?

"Given that Chevy, Ford and Hyundai offer thriftier 6-speed automatics, Toyota had better get with the program."

50152

So Toyota better "had better get with the program" because it gets better combined fuel economy with its ancient four-speed auto than most other subcompacts in its class? And really, the combined fuel economy is pretty important, not so much just the city and highway, right?

It's assertions by automotive writers that peeve me. C'mon—visit FuelEconomy.gov and do the research instead of lambasting Toyota for its four-speed auto.

And full disclosures: I have written a review on the '12 Yaris SE, although mine was the manual (thankfully).

http://www.subcompactculture.com/2012/01/review-2012-yaris-se-surprisingly.html

- Andy

[bronsin]

If you think about it, the more speeds the more times the engine has to accelerate to the shifting point. A Three speed gets there in three times. A six speed has to do it six times.

The final gear ratio is the same no matter if its a three speed or a six speed.

Six speed trannys are the manufactures way of jerking the public off.

[UberSilver]

I was about to state something similar. More speeds in the same sized box= less robust build. If the top gear(OD)is .7 ratio, extra speeds is just marketing.

In the 60's Yamaha had a motorcycle with an 18 speed gearbox. Now most bikes are 5 or 6 speeds.

[bronsin]

. If the top gear(OD)is .7 ratio, extra speeds is just marketing.

.


Given the expense and increased complexity for zero gain, what it amounts to is nuts! :bonk:

[Amdkt7]

More gears can allow you to either use the most efficient rpm range, or the most power range. More gears, depending on the engine can improve FE. It is going to depend on the driver (if it is an stick), or the ECU to make use of the gears. Also, a car with extra gears can have a higher final ratio, without hurting performance. I would love to have a six gear as I would love to see my rpms sitting a little lower when driving 70. Of course, geared that high I would have to downshift more often, but I would have paid more for one more gear if that was an option.
More gears, the closer the ratios can be, and still have a good final ratio.

I was nearly ready to by a different make car in a six speed auto, as I thought it would be efficient enough. I was not willing to buy the four speed automatic, as it was likely to cut into the FE too much.

I think the reviewers are right, customers want at least a five speed in an automatic, as it can improve performance or FE, depending on how it is driven.

[UberSilver]

Your missing the point. Your final gear ratio is what gives good mpg. You could have 4,5,6 or 7 speed, but if the final ratio is .7 mpg will be the same.

Now if you talking about a Bugatti or Ferrari with a top speed of 250 mph, than of corse one would benefit from a 7 or 8 speed.

But in the world of 100hp econo cars, 4speed auto is plenty. imo.:smile:


More gears can allow you to either use the most efficient rpm range, or the most power range. More gears, depending on the engine can improve FE. It is going to depend on the driver (if it is an stick), or the ECU to make use of the gears. Also, a car with extra gears can have a higher final ratio, without hurting performance. I would love to have a six gear as I would love to see my rpms sitting a little lower when driving 70. Of course, geared that high I would have to downshift more often, but I would have paid more for one more gear if that was an option.
More gears, the closer the ratios can be, and still have a good final ratio.

I was nearly ready to by a different make car in a six speed auto, as I thought it would be efficient enough. I was not willing to buy the four speed automatic, as it was likely to cut into the FE too much.

I think the reviewers are right, customers want at least a five speed in an automatic, as it can improve performance or FE, depending on how it is driven.

[Amdkt7]

I think you are missing my point. If you raise the the final gear ratio without adding a gear it is a longer step between gears, which means that you will spend more time operating the engine at RPM that are not as efficient (ie, you have to run up to say 2500 RPM before shifting, because the next gear would drop you to 1800 perhaps, which might not pull enough). Adding an extra gear means the close ratios can be kept, and still have a higher final gear ratio.
Nothing sucks more than having to rev the engine in a low gear because the next gear will lug the engine trying to climb a hill.
Thankfully, the Yaris pulls pretty good at even 1200 rpm, so it does not truly need more gears, however I still wish I had a sixth gear when I am on the highway.
This is not a consumer driven trend so much as it is an attempt by manufacturers to reach the cafe standards while still meeting customer expectations for performance.
The Yaris is getting away with less gears due to the nice flat torque curve of it's little engine, but customers are beginning to expect more gears.
I almost went with the RIO six speed auto as it gets around the same gas mileage, but was finally sold on the Yaris when I saw the maintenance schedule (no timing belt). I think others too are expecting more gears, and it is easy to bypass the Yaris for that reason. At only 106 HP it is not attractive, and if you must have an automatic other cars look like a better deal.

[Amdkt7]

I was about to state something similar. More speeds in the same sized box= less robust build. If the top gear(OD)is .7 ratio, extra speeds is just marketing.

In the 60's Yamaha had a motorcycle with an 18 speed gearbox. Now most bikes are 5 or 6 speeds.

In the 60's, most bikes were 2 cycle, they had a very narrow power band. They needed a lot of gears. Now they have 4 cycle engines, and a much better power band.

Again, my point is I want a higher final ratio.

[UberSilver]

In the 60's, most bikes were 2 cycle, they had a very narrow power band. They needed a lot of gears. Now they have 4 cycle engines, and a much better power band.

Again, my point is I want a higher final ratio.

100% correct! And the Yaris is a 4 cycle with a wide power band, not needing more than 4 speeds in the auto.

Also, todays 2 cycle motorcycles are 5 or 6 speed.

Again, my point was the final ratio is no different if you have a 4, 5 or 6 speed auto.

The final (OD) ratio is also .7 on the Ford Fiesta 6 speed auto. Same as the Yaris.

[Amdkt7]

It can still benefit from a 5 speed for the auto. You can keep the engine operating at the best RPM with a close ratio tranny, or have smoother acceleration through the gears under heavy power.
To go with that extra gear I would want a higher OD final ratio to keep those RPMs down at highway speeds.
You do have a point if the final ratio is not raised, the gears would be even closer together.