SMF tires

[CrankyOldMan]

So with the addition of the Blitz S/C, that will put me in SMF. Yes, I'm not going to be competitive there with the limited mods that I've done, but I build my car to what suits me and then run locally in whatever class I land.

So the question du jour is, do I run with Proxes R1Rs in the legendary 195/50R15 size, or do I go whole hog and step in to R-comps? My preferred tire dealer doesn't explicitly carry Toyo, but does get most of his stock from tirerack.com. I'm inclined towards the R1Rs because the 140 treadwear will last longer, but I will be swapping tires at the track regardless.

Oh, and they will be mounted on these dirty little orphans:

[Viperoni]

FWIW, I found that the R1R's in 225/45/15 didn't last *that* long, I feel like my RS3's wore better. The R1R's, in a 225 anyhow, are WIDE. Tons of rubber contacting the pavement.

[xnamerxx]

Viper you bought the wrong size. The magic tires at the 195s.

Cranky,

Street tires don't stand a chance in SMF. Get Hoosier A6's if you want to be "fast" if that's not a good tire choice go with the hankook z214 or BFG R1S tires. All street tires will be crap compared to those. But if you want long wear street tires will do it, go at least a 8" rim and at least 225 rivals/rs3/z2 or whatever peformance tire you choose.

[CrankyOldMan]

Hmm, it looks as though I may have painted myself into a corner with these rims. I had bought them with the intention of mounting R1R 195's--they're only 15x5.5--so anything wider than a 205 is asking for trouble. I'm also somewhat limited by budget (hence the used wheels) and looking at the available R-comps makes me a bit light headed.

As far as "not standing a chance" I don't intend to win. I just run for fun on the local level.

[xnamerxx]

I've been told the 195 R1Rs would be really slow on any rim narrower than 7". If it were my money I'd grab a set of Dunlop Z2s they have a super stiff sidewall that should handle the narrow rim better than the soft side walled Toyo.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Hmm, it looks as though I may have painted myself into a corner with these rims. I had bought them with the intention of mounting R1R 195's--they're only 15x5.5--so anything wider than a 205 is asking for trouble. I'm also somewhat limited by budget (hence the used wheels) and looking at the available R-comps makes me a bit light headed.

As far as "not standing a chance" I don't intend to win. I just run for fun on the local level.

If you want fast and durable go with the 205-50-15 BFG R1-S. If you start to get serious then you need to look for a 13x9 wheels and get into a set of 255-40-13 Hoosier A6.

[cali yaris]

If you start to get serious then you need to look for a 13x9 wheels and get into a set of 255-40-13 Hoosier A6.

I ran those and they were great. When I switched to the 4.3 final drive, I had to move back up to 15's. Even my 15" Toyo R888's are faster than those 13's with my current gearing.

[CrankyOldMan]

If you want fast and durable go with the 205-50-15 BFG R1-S. If you start to get serious then you need to look for a 13x9 wheels and get into a set of 255-40-13 Hoosier A6.

I ran 205/50R15 DZ101s last summer and was pretty happy with them all around. There's lots of other things that I would like to do for the cost of R-comps and 13" wheels first, i.e. my gearbox build, since I can enjoy that on a daily basis instead of twice a month in the summer. =)

[justjesus]

and if you need a wider 15" wheel, you can stay on budget and get the TR Motorsports C1 wheel (Tirerack brand). They're avail in 7, 7.5, and even 8" widths.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCloseUpServlet?target=wheelCloseUp&wheelMake=TRMotorsport&wheelModel=C1&wheelFinish=Bright+Silver+Paint&tab=wheels

[CrankyOldMan]

I've been told the 195 R1Rs would be really slow on any rim narrower than 7". If it were my money I'd grab a set of Dunlop Z2s they have a super stiff sidewall that should handle the narrow rim better than the soft side walled Toyo.

Is there any real difference between the Z1 Star Spec and the ZII? The marketing hype seems almost identical, and they both feature rigid sidewalls.

[CrankyOldMan]

and if you need a wider 15" wheel, you can stay on budget and get the TR Motorsports C1 wheel (Tirerack brand). They're avail in 7, 7.5, and even 8" widths.

Crap, and I had written off Tirerack for inexpensive light weight wheels. That's a pretty decent deal, even if they only last a season or two. I can't imagine that something that light and inexpensive will take too much abuse.

[xnamerxx]

I never ran the z1s but I've been told by some extremely reputable sources that the 15" z1s don't compare to the z2s.

I can tell you I really like the z2s while they might not be the best track day tire, they wear better than anything I've used so far which is saying something. I've run Autox on them and found them to be about .5s slower than proper r1r but I completely hate the r1r so if I wasn't trying to "win" I'd run the Dunlop or some other stiff side walled tire on a narrow rim.

[justjesus]

Crap, and I had written off Tirerack for inexpensive light weight wheels. That's a pretty decent deal, even if they only last a season or two. I can't imagine that something that light and inexpensive will take too much abuse.

for autoX? Not much abuse on wheels, I would think. The set I have has been with the STC Civic at least 3 seasons.

STC National Champ Jeff Wong even has a set.

Good bang for the buck. I'd def get another set if I needed them.

Oh, and you can possibly get a discount through MicroImage. Check with them before buying.

[racerb]

Give the new BFG Rival a shot, if your looking to be Nationaly competitive, then no this isn't the tire, but want to have fun with a tire that will last, this is it!!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Rival&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=245WR5GFR&tab=Sizes

As for wheels, I'd suggest a nice set of Kosei's, their light and plenty strong for auto-x and track events too and their just our size...

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?filterSize=15&filterFinish=All&filterBrand=Kosei&filterWeight=All&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Yaris+Liftback&autoYear=2010&autoModClar=3-Door&sort=Brand&filterNew=All&filterSpecial=false

racerb :thumbsup:

[CrankyOldMan]

So I'm thinking more seriously about the Rivals now, after all the great reviews I've read. The next thing will be to sort out which wheels and what size Rivals.

My initial thoughts are to go with a 225/45R15 on a 15x8. I tried using a Miata as the "fitment" car on tirerack to get other widths and offsets, and may have some good options from Kosei or TR.

[xnamerxx]

I'll let you know how the Rivals are, I just bought a set of 205/50/15.

[racerb]

I'll let you know how the Rivals are, I just bought a set of 205/50/15.

Yeah I was going to suggest the 205s for our cars, 225s seemed alittle bit wide for the Yaris! I ran 205s on my 2,600 lbs. Celica without issues, I'm sure our 2,300 lbs. of Yaris want overwhelm them!!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Rival&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=05WR5GFR&tab=Sizes

racerb :clap:

[xnamerxx]

Its not that the tire is wide its that my rim is only 7" wide so going wider is just a weight penalty and a loss in transitional grip.

[Blown_xa]

I swear by TOYO tires. You folk in soCal may not have this issue, but I had a heck of a time getting heat in Hankooks ( on rear) during early spring and fall events. I had to drive 70% to keep rear from coming out on me. I consider myself a serious competitor in NASA Mid Atlantic Autocross Series, I went from running Hankook Z214 c71 compound r- comps, to TOYO R1R street tires. So far ( 2 events into the season) I have made the right choice. 1st event was in 40 degree temperature, 2nd was in the rain. TOYO R1Rs are BEAST in the rain with at least 2\3 tread. You can run 100% without even warming them up, compound stays soft in cold or wet.

TOYO RR's (40 treadware) are available now http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-rr-DOT-competition-tires , if the compound properties are similar, these will be the tire to beat. Mark my words.

Also, you have to look at what the quick SMF guys are doing...... saying '' 205s are ok on my 2600lb car are ok so....'' just isn't gonna cut it ( if you want to be competitive ) . Brian Karwan is a local to me, he is the national SMF champion , sub 2000lb car running 275's in the front . 225's in rear (narrow to get heat) . Nobody can touch that guy. I mean his setup goes way beyond tire choice , but that is an example .
I personally choose not to run my local SCCA events because the organizers take the fun out of it and think they are running a F1 race, and generally the competitor's are uptight.
When I do run with them, I am competitive .... But Brian Karwan is untouchable.

[xnamerxx]

in cold temps the Toyos work, I just hate hate hate the way they feel when driving, plus I have an exuberant driving style and I'll overheat tires through a run. Generally here in SoCal we have 70+ second runs and the Toyos don't seem to hold up all that well at least with my $hit driving. We don't normally see track temps below 50 degrees here, but if you have right setup, toyos are really really hard to beat.

If I was buying a tire for SMF I'd look at R comps and 245 minimum in the front and a 8-9" rim but and this is a big but I don't know a damn thing about SMF setup so yeah.

[Blown_xa]

in cold temps the Toyos work, I just hate hate hate the way they feel when driving, plus I have an exuberant driving style and I'll overheat tires through a run. Generally here in SoCal we have 70+ second runs and the Toyos don't seem to hold up all that well at least with my $hit driving. We don't normally see track temps below 50 degrees here, but if you have right setup, toyos are really really hard to beat.

If I was buying a tire for SMF I'd look at R comps and 245 minimum in the front and a 8-9" rim but and this is a big but I don't know a damn thing about SMF setup so yeah.

That is very strange that you overheated them in a single autocross run, I ran 30 minute track sessions on them and proved to be very very consistent. Maybe you aren't running enough camber? I run -3 degrees at least. Im guessing you toasted the outside?

[Jason@SportsCar]

I ran 205/50R15 DZ101s last summer and was pretty happy with them all around. There's lots of other things that I would like to do for the cost of R-comps and 13" wheels first, i.e. my gearbox build, since I can enjoy that on a daily basis instead of twice a month in the summer. =)

By the title I thought you were looking for SMF class tires, not street tires. :laugh:

[Jason@SportsCar]

That is very strange that you overheated them in a single autocross run, I ran 30 minute track sessions on them and proved to be very very consistent. Maybe you aren't running enough camber? I run -3 degrees at least. Im guessing you toasted the outside?

Count the number of turns in that 30sec run versus your lap. :wink: Autocross puts a much bigger hurting on tires than the average road course.

[xnamerxx]

That is very strange that you overheated them in a single autocross run, I ran 30 minute track sessions on them and proved to be very very consistent. Maybe you aren't running enough camber? I run -3 degrees at least. Im guessing you toasted the outside?


I have -3.5 on camber and 0 deg toe.
Ran 2 track days back to back on em and they didn't overheat, but I'll overheat them easily halfway through an autox run. I'm a pretty exuberant driver (aka bad) and I have big issues with inside spin so I can overheat Toyos without trying. According to my temp data I toast the middle and my wear pattern seems to say I'm using to much pressure but I don't like going below 29 psi.

[CrankyOldMan]

I'll let you know how the Rivals are, I just bought a set of 205/50/15.

Excellent. Again, I'm not building for SMF--that's just where the S/C puts me. My suspension also isn't set up for R-comp levels of grip (tokico blues/S-Techs/no camber adjustments) because I also DD the little bugger. Anyway, looking forward to seeing how they run!

[Blown_xa]

Count the number of turns in that 30sec run versus your lap. :wink: Autocross puts a much bigger hurting on tires than the average road course.

Never thought about it like that. What is the difference between a autocross compound vs road course compound ? c51 vs c71, a6 vs r6? I was under the assumtion autocross compound took to heat quicker ? If so, Im lost

[xnamerxx]

Never thought about it like that. What is the difference between a autocross compound vs road course compound ? c51 vs c71, a6 vs r6? I was under the assumtion autocross compound took to heat quicker ? If so, Im lost


Autox compounds don't require heat or as much of it to work. Makes them good for Time Trials and such where you don't get 2-3 laps to heat them up.



So I've had the Rivals on for a day or two and I'm kinda on the fence about them. They are certainly good tires and have quite excellent grip, but I can't seem to get them to breakaway like I want, I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

I've also been unable to induce massive tire squeal that most others have so I may not be pushing them hard enough yet, but I have seen 1.18g on them right out of the box during a test run whiich is pretty amazing.

[justjesus]

running them this weekend?

[xnamerxx]

Absolutely :) They have quite a bit more forward grip than the Toyos :evil:

I guess would put them on par or maybe slightly less than the Toyo R1R for now but they definately are easier to drive than the Z2, they really really do wear well though I would guess better than the Z2 and thats the best wearing tire I've seen so far.

[CrankyOldMan]

How did they behave?

[Golddeenoh]

does anyone run Nitto tires? the NeoGen (205/50R15) i am using grip a great deal better than the Yokohamas i was using and they have a tread design that allows them to even preform well in wet conditions (not fresh rain due to oils on the road but after it has been raining and washed the oils away).

[xnamerxx]

The tires worked well, although I'm running into the tread splice issue that most people seem to be having. Not sure if its a problem, most people seem to agree is a cosmetic issue only

[racerb]

The tires worked well, although I'm running into the tread splice issue that most people seem to be having. Not sure if its a problem, most people seem to agree is a cosmetic issue only

This issue you describe, is it like the issue people are having with Toyo's new R-Comp road race tire, or totally different??

racerb :redface:

[xnamerxx]

I wouldn't call it an issue...at least yet. Its just a tread splice line, it seems more cosmetic to me than anything else, TireRack has pictures and I'm sure they will make an appropriate call either way.

[racerb]

I wouldn't call it an issue...at least yet. Its just a tread splice line, it seems more cosmetic to me than anything else, TireRack has pictures and I'm sure they will make an appropriate call either way.

Just in case, here is some interesting reading that came out about the new Toyo RR tires awhile back. Seems that storing these newer competition tires in cold areas before mounting can cause these tread slice issues. With the Toyos they put out an advisory about a change of mounting procedures, not sure but BFG might end up with something silmular!

http://mazdaracers.com/topic/3039-toyo-consumer-advisory-mounting-rotation-of-proxes%C2%AE-rr-tires/page-2

racerb :iono:

[xnamerxx]

I'm not going to vilify bfg yet, its a new competition tire. But I did have it happen on all 4 of my tires.