A car of interest....

[Gogogordy]

I just drove little red Yaris from Temecula Ca, to central TX, and back ( a total of 3,030 miles ) on $329.83 worth of fuel. That doesnt surprise me...despite the ding in MPG Texas' 80 mph speed limit causes.

What does surprise me is the level of interest from strangers at gas stops, rest stops, and in motel parking lots my bug-splattered Yaris received. "What kinda car is that?" "iis it japanese?" etc. I was even questioned by a LEO in Eloy, AZ as we both stopped for a Subway sammich. He was genuinely interested....

You'd think theyve never seen a Yaris in AZ, NM, or TX. But, for the most part its truck country, and the further east I travelled the fewer imports, and greater American cars ruled the road.

Yes, gas prices drop some once you exit California, but that small gas decrease cannot make up for such exceptional mileage and economy. I even nursed 3 bars of fuel from west of Yuma, to up and over the Chocolate Mts and all the way into El Cajon....passing several larger vehicles which blew by me earlier but lost their leads to me for having to stop and refuel:headbang:

[Kar98]

I've never heard of a Yaris until I accidentally bought one last summer.

[MadMax]

I see lots of Yarii in Central Texas, usually one or two a day. They aren't as common as F150 pick-ups and SUVs in these parts but they're not that rare!

Of course, in Europe and Japan I saw about twenty times the number of Yarii, especially in the latter.

It's one of the things I love about the Yaris, it has international charm but isn't common!

Cheers! M2

[B2FiNiTY]

What's a LEO?

[nookandcrannycar]

What's a LEO?

Law Enforcement Officer

[Amdkt7]

I've never heard of a Yaris until I accidentally bought one last summer.

How do you accidentally buy a Yaris? :thumbup:

[Kar98]

The AC in my 97 Golf finally died, which was the last straw. I was looking for a Jetta Wagon, but all the ads were like, oops, we had one, it was awesome, but just got sold. Yeah right. So this being the middle of Summer in Texas, I really needed something like right now, and stumbled across a cheap hatch with two doors and AC and a manual, so I quit looking and got that one.

[nookandcrannycar]

So this being the middle of Summer in Texas, I really needed something like right now

So true. When I lived near San Francisco I once bought a car that didn't have air conditioning. That was a big mistake (I lived in the burbs -- hotter temps) and I vowed to never do that again. In Texas in 2013 I can't imagine that any dealer would take delivery of a new car without A/C...no one would buy such a car. In the Northern U.S. and Canada people get worse gas mileage in the Winter for reasons that have been discussed on various Yarisworld threads. In much of Texas it is more likely to be just the opposite, as something like 80% of the population lives in the Texas Urban Triangle/Texaplex (as you know, but others might not) this = DFW, Houston, and San Antonio metros at the corners, with Austin and Waco along the perimeter and College Station/Bryan inside....all hotter than H E double toothpicks during the summer.

[jambo101]

I dont get why the Yaris isnt a more popular car in the USA or why Toyota doesnt aggressively market the product.
I usually go on a trip from Montreal to St Pete Florida twice a year and its the rare trip i'll see more than one or two other Yaris on the whole journey, up here in Montreal almost every other car is a Yaris or an Echo.:confused:

[Kar98]

Because: wtf, power nothing, not even mirrors, and by the time you added on what options are available, might as well buy a Corolla. Is what Americans are thinking.

[djhuddy2442]

their arent to many yarii on the east coast i live in pittsburgh and except for mine have only seen4 ever

[nookandcrannycar]

I dont get why the Yaris isnt a more popular car in the USA or why Toyota doesnt aggressively market the product.

I think it is a sad commentary, but I think Kar98 is correct re why the Yaris isn't more popular in the United States. I think Toyota doesn't aggressively market the car here because people here will buy more cars that give Toyota a higher profit margin. I realize that the Yaris can be a 'first step' re later moving to other Toyota models...but without CAFE standards, would the Yaris exist here at all?

I usually go on a trip from Montreal to St Pete Florida twice a year and its the rare trip i'll see more than one or two other Yaris on the whole journey, up here in Montreal almost every other car is a Yaris or an Echo.:confused:

I think part of the reason is the 'American viewpoint' that Kar98 mentioned. Another reason might be parking difficulty re population density. If you are taking AUT-15 to I-87 to the New York Thruway to the GSP to I-95 all the way to Jacksonville then I-10 to 301 to I-75 to I-275, then you aren't really hitting any areas that have a higher population density than within the city limits of Montreal....local people along almost all of that route don't care as much about having the smallest car possible to 'create' parking opportunities, as there is much less need for that approach. Another reason (although I'd think limited because there isn't THAT much difference) is the higher price of gas in Canada vs much of the United States....people don't care quite as much about having a fuel efficient car re gas cost.

[jayeh]

I dont get why the Yaris isnt a more popular car in the USA or why Toyota doesnt aggressively market the product.
I usually go on a trip from Montreal to St Pete Florida twice a year and its the rare trip i'll see more than one or two other Yaris on the whole journey, up here in Montreal almost every other car is a Yaris or an Echo.:confused:
If I lived in the states I'd probably be driving a pickup truck or a land cruiser.

Here I cringe filling the tank in my Yaris.

In the states everything seems to be a notch up from Canada, the sub-compacts don't count, Compact Cars like the Corolla are the bottom rung, a Camry is a family car.

Europe is the opposite way and a Corolla would be a family car.

The amount of car people think they need is slightly absurd. People who have kid and think they need a minivan or suv when they really just need less stuff.

Because: wtf, power nothing, not even mirrors, and by the time you added on what options are available, might as well buy a Corolla. Is what Americans are thinking.

Power mirrors aren't an option?

[nookandcrannycar]

In the states everything seems to be a notch up from Canada, the sub-compacts don't count, Compact Cars like the Corolla are the bottom rung, a Camry is a family car.

Europe is the opposite way and a Corolla would be a family car.

^^^^^ I agree

The amount of car people think they need is slightly absurd. People who have kid and think they need a minivan or suv when they really just need less stuff.

I agree, but I think people being able to freely buy and use them without any nanny state interference is the most important issue. People creating more of a carbon footprint than necessary for the mobility they take part in is, IMO, bad and people should (on a personal level) feel guilty about creating that outsized footprint. However, government shouldn't be part of that use of 'oversized/inefficient' vehicles equation.

[nookandcrannycar]

despite the ding in MPG Texas' 80 mph speed limit causes.

Yes, a significant ding (in my experience).

[jayeh]

^^^^^ I agree



I agree, but I think people being able to freely buy and use them without any nanny state interference is the most important issue. People creating more of a carbon footprint than necessary for the mobility they take part in is, IMO, bad and people should (on a personal level) feel guilty about creating that outsized footprint. However, government shouldn't be part of that use of 'oversized/inefficient' vehicles equation.

Hmmm. I disagree. I'd love to see vehicles taxed based on emissions here like they do in Europe.

I'm also not a fan of the current trend of people buying more car because they know they are lacking skill behind the wheel.

[jambo101]

If you are taking AUT-15 to I-87 to the New York Thruway to the GSP to I-95 all the way to Jacksonville then I-10 to 301 to I-75 to I-275, then you aren't really hitting any areas that have a higher population density than within the city limits of Montreal....local people along almost all of that route don't care as much about having the smallest car possible to 'create' parking


I just spent the entire month of March traveling the backroads of Americas East coast ending up just north of Tampa, then returning to Montreal via interstate,in that whole time i saw one Yaris(Cape Hatteras)and one Echo (Ocala).
I wonder how many in the US would consider purchasing a Yaris if they knew it even existed.
As an example i accompanied my Mom in her Rav4 to her dealership in Homossasa Fla. struck me as odd that there wasnt a single Yaris on the lot, i asked the service manager how come no Yaris on the lot? he answered that they dont get much demand for the Yaris,,well i guess not if people dont even know they exist..

[Kar98]

Power mirrors aren't an option?

I think they're standard now. But you know how consumer perception is. ONE guy drives his Audi into his garage wall 40 years ago, and people are still like, hurrrrf unintended acceleration.

[NEexpat]

I'm in S.E. New England, not far from from the R.I. border and I see Yari all the time.

Hardly a day goes by without seeing a Hatch or Sedan. Maybe because I drive one I'm more likely to spot them. So far not too many of the 2013's.

When I'm out in Columbus I see FITS (My Gf's car) everywhere, but that is because of Marysville.

[nookandcrannycar]

I just spent the entire month of March traveling the backroads of Americas East coast ending up just north of Tampa, then returning to Montreal via interstate,in that whole time i saw one Yaris(Cape Hatteras)and one Echo (Ocala).
I wonder how many in the US would consider purchasing a Yaris if they knew it even existed.
As an example i accompanied my Mom in her Rav4 to her dealership in Homossasa Fla. struck me as odd that there wasnt a single Yaris on the lot, i asked the service manager how come no Yaris on the lot? he answered that they dont get much demand for the Yaris,,well i guess not if people dont even know they exist..

Good for you for venturing off the beaten path, so to speak. Did you visit DC, Philly, NYC and Boston?....the places where the scramble for a parking space might be equal to or more intense than in Montreal. If so, the fact that you saw so few is even more amazing. I spent about a month in Florida last year and I didn't see too many Yarii. Most of the ones I did see were in and around Jacksonville.

[jayeh]

As an example i accompanied my Mom in her Rav4 to her dealership in Homossasa Fla. struck me as odd that there wasnt a single Yaris on the lot, i asked the service manager how come no Yaris on the lot? he answered that they dont get much demand for the Yaris,,well i guess not if people dont even know they exist..

When I went to a Honda dealership (in Gatineau) to look for a used fit the guy said "The fit is rare new (as in they don't stick around for long) and even more rare used!". I ended up buying my Yaris from their used lot!

[jambo101]

Good for you for venturing off the beaten path, so to speak. Did you visit DC, Philly, NYC and Boston?....the places where the scramble for a parking space might be equal to or more intense than in Montreal. If so, the fact that you saw so few is even more amazing. I spent about a month in Florida last year and I didn't see too many Yarii. Most of the ones I did see were in and around Jacksonville.
As it was still winter in the north we drove from Montreal to Ocean City Maryland and spent a few days, from their did the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and then drove the entire length of the Outer Banks stopping in Nags Head then again in Okracoke,finally ending up in North Myrtle Beach where after a few days the wife had to fly back to Montreal to go to work, i carried on with another 3 weeks in Florida :burnrubber:
I sometimes wonder if Americans in general just dont like small economical cars and feel diminished in some way if they arent driving a big pickup or suv,Anyhow its their dime at the pump..
Heres a pic of my little road warrior..
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/jambo101/DSC00106_zps4472fd15.jpg

[bentjazz]

"Hmmm. I disagree. I'd love to see vehicles taxed based on emissions here like they do in Europe."

Ugh. The government (Canadian, in your case) really has you indoctrinated into the yet-to-be proven claim that human produced CO2 is behind the global warming that is supposedly going to sink the planet in the not-too-distant future, doesn't it? Hey, you're not alone. We have it just as bad here in the US with liberal elitist control freaks who think they know it better than everyone else and who likewise want to direct and control every facet of our lives. I DON'T want to see vehicles taxed based on emissions. We're taxed enough, as is. Just another lovely scheme the governments of the world are cooking up in order to confiscate and redistribute wealth. In other words, liberty is lost in increments. I, for one, don't want to be a slave to the State. So, no, I'm sorry but I'm against emission taxation just like I'm against all forms of state sponsored coercion and theft.....

[jambo101]

bentjazz I never gave all that stuff a moments thought when i bought my Yaris, it was all about an economical and reliable way to get from point A to point B, something the Yaris does remarkably well.

[bentjazz]

True that, jambo. Same here, actually. Two most important things that I wanted in a car prior to my Yaris purchase: fuel economy and reliability. Yaris excels in both. I'm happy. But for the communitarian collectivists out there that want to tax, tax, tax everything and run our lives for us, I say: Leave. Me. Alone.

[jayeh]

"Hmmm. I disagree. I'd love to see vehicles taxed based on emissions here like they do in Europe."

Ugh. The government (Canadian, in your case) really has you indoctrinated into the yet-to-be proven claim that human produced CO2 is behind the global warming that is supposedly going to sink the planet in the not-too-distant future, doesn't it? Hey, you're not alone. We have it just as bad here in the US with liberal elitist control freaks who think they know it better than everyone else and who likewise want to direct and control every facet of our lives. I DON'T want to see vehicles taxed based on emissions. We're taxed enough, as is. Just another lovely scheme the governments of the world are cooking up in order to confiscate and redistribute wealth. In other words, liberty is lost in increments. I, for one, don't want to be a slave to the State. So, no, I'm sorry but I'm against emission taxation just like I'm against all forms of state sponsored coercion and theft.....

I'm fairly certain we have solved most of the mysteries of global climate change.

Realistically taxes for vehicles are extremely low and we don't seem to ever have enough money to maintain our vehicle related infrastructure, let alone expand it to meet our current needs.

Without higher taxes there is no reason to build more efficient cars, no reason to buy them!

[why?]

If I lived in the states I'd probably be driving a pickup truck or a land cruiser.
Here I cringe filling the tank in my Yaris.
In the states everything seems to be a notch up from Canada, the sub-compacts don't count, Compact Cars like the Corolla are the bottom rung, a Camry is a family car.
Europe is the opposite way and a Corolla would be a family car.
The amount of car people think they need is slightly absurd. People who have kid and think they need a minivan or suv when they really just need less stuff.
Power mirrors aren't an option?

Actually, The Yaris is the best selling car in the UK, and one of the best, if not the best selling car throughout europe as well. It is the family car.

As for the amount of car people choose, people like being able to do whatever they want without having to rent a car. That is the reason car based SUV's are so popular. Decent gas mileage, and big enough to do almost anything in.

Now if you look at people that have to commute, you will see a much different story. Commuters by smaller more gas efficient cars.

Hmmm. I disagree. I'd love to see vehicles taxed based on emissions here like they do in Europe.

I'm also not a fan of the current trend of people buying more car because they know they are lacking skill behind the wheel.

Taxes are the downfall of civilization. Europe is about to hit the fan and dissolve, that is the only lesson anyone should take about doing anything "like europe."

I'm fairly certain we have solved most of the mysteries of global climate change.
Realistically taxes for vehicles are extremely low and we don't seem to ever have enough money to maintain our vehicle related infrastructure, let alone expand it to meet our current needs.
Without higher taxes there is no reason to build more efficient cars, no reason to buy them!

Taxes for vehicles are absurd as they are. There should only be one, sales tax when you buy it. The idea of a government taxing something you already own is beyond ludicrous. I honestly don't understand how the person who thought up that idea lived to enact it. Just like income tax is insane. That is one of the reasons why Lincoln should not be touted as much as he was. He did some purely evil things, and got amazingly lucky in winning the civil war.

[jayeh]

Actually, The Yaris is the best selling car in the UK, and one of the best, if not the best selling car throughout europe as well. It is the family car.

I never said it wasn't :iono: My point was people here don't think small cars are suitable for families.

Now if you look at people that have to commute, you will see a much different story. Commuters by smaller more gas efficient cars.

I often see the opposite. People who drive a lot will buy a bigger car. If I still had to commute from way outside the city I'd just get a bigger car with a 5 or 6 speed AT. Most new cars will get better fuel economy than a Yaris at highway speed.

Taxes are the downfall of civilization. Europe is about to hit the fan and dissolve, that is the only lesson anyone should take about doing anything "like europe."

Thats about the way I feel about the USA.

Taxes for vehicles are absurd as they are. There should only be one, sales tax when you buy it. The idea of a government taxing something you already own is beyond ludicrous. I honestly don't understand how the person who thought up that idea lived to enact it. Just like income tax is insane. That is one of the reasons why Lincoln should not be touted as much as he was. He did some purely evil things, and got amazingly lucky in winning the civil war.
That would be great if you only drove your car around your own property, but you don't.

[tooter]

Taxes are the downfall of civilization. Europe is about to hit the fan and dissolve, that is the only lesson anyone should take about doing anything "like europe."

Thats about the way I feel about the USA.


And you're right, because the US has adopted the European model of government.

[nookandcrannycar]

Without higher taxes there is no reason to build more efficient cars, no reason to buy them!

What!!!!! People just look at the way they channel their money, IMO, the wrong way. Paying more per mile than I need to = money that is flushed down a toilet that I can never get back to invest in something else. Also, where tooter lives and where I used to live (SF Bay Area) buying a fuel efficient car is take as a political statement and putting forward a sign of intelligence.

[nookandcrannycar]

Taxes are the downfall of civilization. Europe is about to hit the fan and dissolve, that is the only lesson anyone should take about doing anything "like europe."

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap:


Taxes for vehicles are absurd as they are. There should only be one, sales tax when you buy it. The idea of a government taxing something you already own is beyond ludicrous. I honestly don't understand how the person who thought up that idea lived to enact it. Just like income tax is insane. That is one of the reasons why Lincoln should not be touted as much as he was. He did some purely evil things, and got amazingly lucky in winning the civil war.

A little stronger than I would have put it, but :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:.

[jayeh]

And you're right, because the US has adopted the European model of government.
In what way?????!!!!????

What!!!!! People just look at the way they channel their money, IMO, the wrong way. Paying more per mile than I need to = money that is flushed down a toilet that I can never get back to invest in something else. Also, where tooter lives and where I used to live (SF Bay Area) buying a fuel efficient car is take as a political statement and putting forward a sign of intelligence.

Most people just assume I can't afford anything more, or that I'm a terrible driver when they see my car. Then when they find out I live downtown they understand. I could maybe fit a Corolla in my parking spot but it would be tight!

Here small cars are surprisingly popular, right out into the rural areas. I was shocked at all the 90's tercels I saw a trip out of the east coast of Canada recently.

[nookandcrannycar]

Most people just assume I can't afford anything more

I sometimes get that vibe when I go to places in the Houston metro that are more 'Texas-centric' (which, among other things = more pickups and more large SUVs....as opposed to near my area 58 percent of the people were born outside of Texas)

[nookandcrannycar]

In what way?????!!!!????

I would guess tooter means re the types of things the government is choosing to spend money on (ObamaCare, for example), rather than the structure of the government. Although, with the POTUS disregarding the separation of powers set forth in our constitution, and our congress failing to impeach and try him for this, some might feel that it is debatable what form of government we have (effectively) in the United States.

[bentjazz]

"The Real Lincoln" by Loyola Economics Professor Thomas DiLorenzo. Lincoln was a dictator, racist, and sophist extraordinaire. We should tear down the Lincoln Memorial. Lincoln was a fraud and those belonging to the Cult of Lincoln are liars....



That is one of the reasons why Lincoln should not be touted as much as he was. He did some purely evil things, and got amazingly lucky in winning the civil war.[/QUOTE]

[Gogogordy]

this thread has taken.
Gotta love it!

[jayeh]

I would guess tooter means re the types of things the government is choosing to spend money on (ObamaCare, for example), rather than the structure of the government. Although, with the POTUS disregarding the separation of powers set forth in our constitution, and our congress failing to impeach and try him for this, some might feel that it is debatable what form of government we have (effectively) in the United States.

I'll never understand the way people fight against healthcare. I though I do understand ever so slightly more than the average canadian and I've explained to lots of my friends that people are against it because it'll screw up/shut down lots of small businesses, and people could see jobs cut or wages cut to pay for the new coverage.

I'm always fascinated by american politics. The thing that gets me is that lots of our government services here (the postal system, national parks, provincial parks, national museums etc) are run as for profit businesses whereas the USA subsidizes these things.

"The Real Lincoln" by Loyola Economics Professor Thomas DiLorenzo. Lincoln was a dictator, racist, and sophist extraordinaire. We should tear down the Lincoln Memorial. Lincoln was a fraud and those belonging to the Cult of Lincoln are liars....

That is one of the reasons why Lincoln should not be touted as much as he was. He did some purely evil things, and got amazingly lucky in winning the civil war.[/QUOTE]
That sounds like an interesting read.

[nookandcrannycar]

I'll never understand the way people fight against healthcare. I though I do understand ever so slightly more than the average canadian and I've explained to lots of my friends that people are against it because it'll screw up/shut down lots of small businesses, and people could see jobs cut or wages cut to pay for the new coverage.

Many of us who don't want it do not feel that way because we want to 'fight against healthcare'. We feel the way we do because what Obama CLAIMED was the impetus for healthcare reform (getting more people covered) could have been accomplished by expanding current programs (such as Medicaid, or even giving everyone the choice US Federal Employees have). After Obama took office (and the debate was renewed) several congressmen (on different committees) proposed giving the public the same insurance options that US Federal Employees have. Not one of these proposals even got out of committee. I think most people in the U.S. would have liked to see a solution that covered more people, but not ObamaCare - a top down solution that changes almost everything. Also, we don't like being lied to...and this whole process has been frought with lies coming (mainly) from Obama (you can keep the coverage you have...you can keep the doctor you have....premiums will decrease an average of $2500 per year for a family...and on and on (the list of lies is as long as both of my arms). If ObamaCare is so great, then why are any exemptions needed?....and... When was the last time you heard White House Press Secretary Jay Carney answer a question directly or really even at all? I don't think I ever have. IMO, he tries to obfuscate nearly everything.

[tooter]

tooter wrote:
And you're right, because the US has adopted the European model of government.

In what way?????!!!!????

America has adopted the European model of a taxing regulating litigating cradle-to-grave benefits dispensing liberal socialist bureaucratic welfare state...

...and only because that is what the political majority have demanded it to be.

[nookandcrannycar]

Many of us who don't want it do not feel that way because we want to 'fight against healthcare'. We feel the way we do because what Obama CLAIMED was the impetus for healthcare reform (getting more people covered) could have been accomplished by expanding current programs (such as Medicaid, or even giving everyone the choice US Federal Employees have). After Obama took office (and the debate was renewed) several congressmen (on different committees) proposed giving the public the same insurance options that US Federal Employees have. Not one of these proposals even got out of committee. I think most people in the U.S. would have liked to see a solution that covered more people, but not ObamaCare - a top down solution that changes almost everything. Also, we don't like being lied to...and this whole process has been frought with lies coming (mainly) from Obama (you can keep the coverage you have...you can keep the doctor you have....premiums will decrease an average of $2500 per year for a family...and on and on (the list of lies is as long as both of my arms). If ObamaCare is so great, then why are any exemptions needed?....and... When was the last time you heard White House Press Secretary Jay Carney answer a question directly or really even at all? I don't think I ever have. IMO, he tries to obfuscate nearly everything.

Another reason I feel this way is that I feel betrayed. I was at a family dinner after Obama secured the nomination in 2008. One of my relatives has good friends who are good friends of Hillary's and this relative is a big Hillary supporter (she drives her dad crazy as he is to the right of Attila the Hun). I argued that Obama was the proper choice. Now my favorite point in his presidency is when he had to sit there and listen to Dr. Benjamin Carson (go Dr. Carson) at the Prayer Breakfast. While sitting there, Obama looked as if he had just swallowed a POS.

[nookandcrannycar]

America has adopted the European model of a taxing regulating litigating cradle-to-grave benefits dispensing liberal socialist bureaucratic welfare state...

...and only because that is what the political majority have demanded it to be.

:thumbsup: ...and we are going in the wrong direction while some other countries are going in the right direction. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world. Russia abolished its inheritance tax. Russia has a VAT, but they have a flat personal income tax rate of 13 percent and a tax on dividends of only 9 percent (just a few examples of different, better policies that the U.S. could adopt). People are rightly praising Lady Thatcher today while noting her passing. The U.S. needs a 'kick in the pants' akin to what she gave the UK when she became Prime Minister.

[jayeh]

Many of us who don't want it do not feel that way because we want to 'fight against healthcare'. We feel the way we do because what Obama CLAIMED was the impetus for healthcare reform (getting more people covered) could have been accomplished by expanding current programs (such as Medicaid, or even giving everyone the choice US Federal Employees have). After Obama took office (and the debate was renewed) several congressmen (on different committees) proposed giving the public the same insurance options that US Federal Employees have. Not one of these proposals even got out of committee. I think most people in the U.S. would have liked to see a solution that covered more people, but not ObamaCare - a top down solution that changes almost everything. Also, we don't like being lied to...and this whole process has been frought with lies coming (mainly) from Obama (you can keep the coverage you have...you can keep the doctor you have....premiums will decrease an average of $2500 per year for a family...and on and on (the list of lies is as long as both of my arms). If ObamaCare is so great, then why are any exemptions needed?....and... When was the last time you heard White House Press Secretary Jay Carney answer a question directly or really even at all? I don't think I ever have. IMO, he tries to obfuscate nearly everything.
I just don't get it! I don't even agree with the concept of for profit healthcare.

America has adopted the European model of a taxing regulating litigating cradle-to-grave benefits dispensing liberal socialist bureaucratic welfare state...

...and only because that is what the political majority have demanded it to be.
I don't understand how anyone could think the united states is anywhere close to that!
:thumbsup: ...and we are going in the wrong direction while some other countries are going in the right direction. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world. Russia abolished its inheritance tax. Russia has a VAT, but they have a flat personal income tax rate of 13 percent and a tax on dividends of only 9 percent (just a few examples of different, better policies that the U.S. could adopt). People are rightly praising Lady Thatcher today while noting her passing. The U.S. needs a 'kick in the pants' akin to what she gave the UK when she became Prime Minister.

You might want to check your sources on that statement about the corporate taxes.

I guess I'm just a socialist at heart!

[tooter]

I don't understand how anyone could think the united states is anywhere close to that!

Oh really?

47,000,000 people are on government food stamps.

1 out of every 4 children eat government food in a government school.

The majority in America have created the government they deserve in their own image.


I guess I'm just a socialist at heart!

Exactly. :smile:

[jayeh]

Oh really?

47,000,000 people are on government food stamps.

1 out of every 4 children eat government food in a government school.

The majority in America have created the government they deserve in their own image.


That is proof enough for me that something is wrong with the system!

[tooter]

That is proof enough for me that something is wrong with the system!

There's actually nothing wrong with the system itself...

...for the system is nothing more or less than what the popular collective societal consensus demands it to be. It is a direct expression of the values (or lack of them) by which people live their own lives. the government is created in the image of those who demand it to serve them at the expense of others. So it's people who determine the size and nature of the government they deserve... and not the other way around.

People who love lies will always elect liars who will lie to them. :thumbsup:

[nookandcrannycar]

I just don't get it! I don't even agree with the concept of for profit healthcare.

So it's okay that Obama lied to us because we know his goal is a single payer system :rolleyes:. Not that this would be true of any of my neighbors, but if my neighbor down the street is the same age and also doesn't smoke, but weighs 500 pounds and drinks a bottle of vodka a day (I don't drink and am not obese), why should we pay the same for health insurance? ObamaCare only allows physical location, age, and smoker vs non-smoker to be taken into consideration re insurance rates.


I don't understand how anyone could think the united states is anywhere close to that!
Our national debt is already a fair amount higher per capita than Greece. Some people think that doesn't matter because of the different nature of our economy. I still think it matters. Some people think that conservatives in the U.S. are selfish because we want to cut government spending and we don't want to pay higher taxes. I say what could possibly be more selfish than to borrow money for excessive things that are desired (but not needed) now (what many liberals want) and make kids, grandkids, great grandkids, great great grandkids, etc. (who have no say in the matter) pay that money back.


You might want to check your sources on that statement about the corporate taxes.

In late March of 2012 the corporate tax rate in Japan dipped just below ours, giving the U.S. the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world. Liberals here will say that is a conservative talking point and is inaccurate because the U.S. has the second lowest corporate tax rate among such countries when expressed as a percentage of GDP. IMO, that is liberal drivel. Talk to the CEO of a company headquartered outside the U.S. who is thinking about relocating his company from its current location. He's not going to care what the U.S. corporate tax rate is as a percentagle of GDP. He's going to care what his company would have to pay.

I guess I'm just a socialist at heart!

I guess so :smile:.

[jayeh]

So it's okay that Obama lied to us because we know his goal is a single payer system :rolleyes:. Not that this would be true of any of my neighbors, but if my neighbor down the street is the same age and also doesn't smoke, but weighs 500 pounds and drinks a bottle of vodka a day (I don't drink and am not obese), why should we pay the same for health insurance? ObamaCare only allows physical location, age, and smoker vs non-smoker to be taken into consideration re insurance rates.

I don't know the answer to that, but here alcohol and cigarettes are taxed to the sky so it kind of evens out.

I'm also shocked by how much people pay for health insurance in the first place. I was reading that somebody my age would pay about what I pay in a year for income tax for their health insurance alone, plus about the same amount of income tax!

I'm fascinated by the social programs in the US. They seem to be somewhat jumbled and inefficient and with a great variance by state.

[nookandcrannycar]

I don't know the answer to that, but here alcohol and cigarettes are taxed to the sky so it kind of evens out.

I'm also shocked by how much people pay for health insurance in the first place. I was reading that somebody my age would pay about what I pay in a year for income tax for their health insurance alone, plus about the same amount of income tax!

I'm fascinated by the social programs in the US. They seem to be somewhat jumbled and inefficient and with a great variance by state.

The difference between states fascinates me. I was getting gas for my Yaris in East Brunswick, New Jersey in 2010 and I asked the attendant why gas is so much cheaper in New Jersey than in New York or Connecticut. He said it is because the gas tax is so much lower and New Jersey makes up for it by having higher cigarette and alcohol taxes than New York and Connecticut. I like the approach New Jersey takes on this because most people have to buy gas, but people don't have to smoke or drink. I just wish the State of New Jersey would let people pump their own gas!

California has been notorious in the past for providing generous social benefits, with some cities going beyond that and providing even more assistance. As a result (at least partially) California has nearly 1/3 of all welfare recipients in the U.S. while having about 1/8 of the population.

A few months ago I was walking into an older Kroger supermarket in Humble, TX (a city that is south of me (in Harris County) and also east of me. This particular Kroger is near a lot of apartments. I noticed what was essentially a government ad promoting food stamps with an eligible income re size of household grid :rolleyes:. This same 'promotion' is NOT on the door of my local Kroger (I think because the median income in my area is too high), but I did notice that 'Obamaphones' are available at my local Kroger :rolleyes:.

I've also been told there are ads currently running in Mexico instructing people how to get food stamps in the U.S. once they get across the border. Why are government workers doing this (and squandering taxpayer money in the process), and why is it the policy coming from above? Because the more people there are enrolled in the program, the more government workers are needed and both of these groups can, *BINGO*, be relied upon to vote for Democrats....and many people believe that this last reason is why the administration has taken the stances it has in various situations re immigration. I think people seeking out the Food Stamp benefit and getting it if they qualify is one thing, but I think initiating/promoting more (some of it BORROWED) money that the taxpayers are on the hook for is despicable. If a certain amount is 'budgeted' and the managers feel or require that that all has to be distributed, then that process needs to be revised.

[nookandcrannycar]

There's actually nothing wrong with the system itself...

...for the system is nothing more or less than what the popular collective societal consensus demands it to be. It is a direct expression of the values (or lack of them) by which people live their own lives. the government is created in the image of those who demand it to serve them at the expense of others. So it's people who determine the size and nature of the government they deserve... and not the other way around.

People who love lies will always elect liars who will lie to them. :thumbsup:

And elected again! Even given the huge Democratic tilt in California, I was a bit aghast that Moonbeam got elected again.

[STC]

Wow. Thread has gone political.

Speaking on terms of the Yaris. Here in State College, PA I see a good number of Yari. From family, couples, and Penn State University students. I'm glad to see that us Americans are catching on the efficient mode of transportation by driving the Yaris. Heck, you don't even need to by a media sponsored "green car" like the Prius to gain great gas mileage and lower your carbon print. Plus, you can buy the Yaris at half the cost! Who is intelligent now? :wink:

US Government is retrograde, IMHO. We live in a false Left/Right political paradigm. There is no such thing as a political dichotomy. It is all false. Why in the last several years have followed the non-aggression principle of Voluntaryism. My philosophy is best described by: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

Cheers! :smile:

[tooter]

California has been notorious in the past for providing generous social benefits, with some cities going beyond that and providing even more assistance. As a result (at least partially) California has nearly 1/3 of all welfare recipients in the U.S. while having about 1/8 of the population.

A few months ago I was walking into an older Kroger supermarket in Humble, TX (a city that is south of me (in Harris County) and also east of me. This particular Kroger is near a lot of apartments. I noticed what was essentially a government ad promoting food stamps with an eligible income re size of household grid :rolleyes:. This same 'promotion' is NOT on the door of my local Kroger (I think because the median income in my area is too high), but I did notice that 'Obamaphones' are available at my local Kroger :rolleyes:.

I've also been told there are ads currently running in Mexico instructing people how to get food stamps in the U.S. once they get across the border. Why are government workers doing this (and squandering taxpayer money in the process), and why is it the policy coming from above? Because the more people there are enrolled in the program, the more government workers are needed and both of these groups can, *BINGO*, be relied upon to vote for Democrats....and many people believe that this last reason is why the administration has taken the stances it has in various situations re immigration. I think people seeking out the Food Stamp benefit and getting it if they qualify is one thing, but I think initiating/promoting more (some of it BORROWED) money that the taxpayers are on the hook for is despicable. If a certain amount is 'budgeted' and the managers feel or require that that all has to be distributed, then that process needs to be revised.

You're quite correct, nook...
The California State government uses taxpayer money to pay for radio advertising campaigns promoting its food stamp program SNAP, Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program.

Since June 2009, 1,300,000 more people have filed for disability benefits which has become the new welfare.

Last month, while 87,000 new jobs were created, 496,000 people had left the work force. So 6 times more people left the work force as reentered it.

The percentage of working-age adults in the labor force, the participation rate, fell to 63.3 percent last month, breaking the record low set in May 1979 which was the last major recession 34 years ago.

[tooter]

Wow. Thread has gone political.

Gotta have at least one thread in every forum. :wink:

[why?]

We're in a depression, the politicians and their media backers just refuse to use the word. 90 million healthy Americans can't find a job, 8.8 million Americans are on disability, the same number of Americans went on disability last month as found a job(88,000.) You won't find numbers bigger than those during any part of the 70's, or at any time during the great depression.

I never said it wasn't :iono: My point was people here don't think small cars are suitable for families.

I often see the opposite. People who drive a lot will buy a bigger car. If I still had to commute from way outside the city I'd just get a bigger car with a 5 or 6 speed AT. Most new cars will get better fuel economy than a Yaris at highway speed.

Thats about the way I feel about the USA.

That would be great if you only drove your car around your own property, but you don't.

So what you are saying is you don't drive much, you don't commute, but you think you'd see the cars commuters drive? Wait what? That does not commute. I have commuted, several times, smaller vehicles were the norm.

And you're right, because the US has adopted the European model of government.

Sadly, even though it is 100% Unconstitutional for us to do so.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap:

A little stronger than I would have put it, but :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:.

But true. The Civil War should have ended in a week. The entire Southern army was a day away from DC, with zero troops between them and the President. Only an act of cowardice kept them from storming the capital and winning the war outright.

I sometimes get that vibe when I go to places in the Houston metro that are more 'Texas-centric' (which, among other things = more pickups and more large SUVs....as opposed to near my area 58 percent of the people were born outside of Texas)

I' don't. Everyone understands when I talk gas mileage. I still have people ask me about that. And the National Association for Gun Rights sticker on my hatch lets them know all they need to about my politics.

"The Real Lincoln" by Loyola Economics Professor Thomas DiLorenzo. Lincoln was a dictator, racist, and sophist extraordinaire. We should tear down the Lincoln Memorial. Lincoln was a fraud and those belonging to the Cult of Lincoln are liars....
That is one of the reasons why Lincoln should not be touted as much as he was. He did some purely evil things, and got amazingly lucky in winning the civil war.[/QUOTE]

Now that is stronger than I might put it. And yet, I'll have to check out that book, but I have a strong bias against academics, for obvious reasons.

I'll never understand the way people fight against healthcare. I though I do understand ever so slightly more than the average canadian and I've explained to lots of my friends that people are against it because it'll screw up/shut down lots of small businesses, and people could see jobs cut or wages cut to pay for the new coverage.
I'm always fascinated by american politics. The thing that gets me is that lots of our government services here (the postal system, national parks, provincial parks, national museums etc) are run as for profit businesses whereas the USA subsidizes these things.

Show me a government healthcare scheme that is working. Every single one is failing, and innocent people are dying, because someone was too greedy and self centered to let freedom ring.

America has adopted the European model of a taxing regulating litigating cradle-to-grave benefits dispensing liberal socialist bureaucratic welfare state...

...and only because that is what the political majority have demanded it to be.

Not the political majority, but the majority of people who choose to pay attention. We would not be anywhere near what we are if so many people chose to ignore politics completely for so long.

Another reason I feel this way is that I feel betrayed. I was at a family dinner after Obama secured the nomination in 2008. One of my relatives has good friends who are good friends of Hillary's and this relative is a big Hillary supporter (she drives her dad crazy as he is to the right of Attila the Hun). I argued that Obama was the proper choice. Now my favorite point in his presidency is when he had to sit there and listen to Dr. Benjamin Carson (go Dr. Carson) at the Prayer Breakfast. While sitting there, Obama looked as if he had just swallowed a POS.

I can't believe you would ever think that. How does hanging out with a terrorist make someone worthy of being the president? How does never earning an honest days work make someone worthy of being the president? A perusal of his books would let anyone understand how wrong he was for this job, and exactly what he would do if he ever found his way into it.

:thumbsup: ...and we are going in the wrong direction while some other countries are going in the right direction. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world. Russia abolished its inheritance tax. Russia has a VAT, but they have a flat personal income tax rate of 13 percent and a tax on dividends of only 9 percent (just a few examples of different, better policies that the U.S. could adopt). People are rightly praising Lady Thatcher today while noting her passing. The U.S. needs a 'kick in the pants' akin to what she gave the UK when she became Prime Minister.

Many countries have ditched a communist income tax scheme for flat taxes. Every single one of them is doing better now. Our system is not about getting money for the government, it is all about control.

I just don't get it! I don't even agree with the concept of for profit healthcare.
I don't understand how anyone could think the united states is anywhere close to that!
You might want to check your sources on that statement about the corporate taxes.
I guess I'm just a socialist at heart!

Notice how the wealthiest always flock to the US for health care? Notice how the newest and best treatments come from the US? For profit means the best of the best will do it, because they will be rewarded for their hard work. Government health care means people will die for no reason, means anyone who can will not only pay for government health care, but will also have to purchase "supplemental" health care aka private health care, so they don't die from something simple because the wait line is a year long. Every single government health care scheme is failing, and in all those countries purchase of private health care is rising dramatically. Gee, I wonder why...


Oh really?
47,000,000 people are on government food stamps.
1 out of every 4 children eat government food in a government school.
The majority in America have created the government they deserve in their own image.
Exactly. :smile:

Not the majority, but only the evil control mongers that paid attention, and paid people to vote. If everyone paid attention and voted for the past 100 years, we would not have this problem.

So it's okay that Obama lied to us because we know his goal is a single payer system :rolleyes:. Not that this would be true of any of my neighbors, but if my neighbor down the street is the same age and also doesn't smoke, but weighs 500 pounds and drinks a bottle of vodka a day (I don't drink and am not obese), why should we pay the same for health insurance? ObamaCare only allows physical location, age, and smoker vs non-smoker to be taken into consideration re insurance rates.
Our national debt is already a fair amount higher per capita than Greece. Some people think that doesn't matter because of the different nature of our economy. I still think it matters. Some people think that conservatives in the U.S. are selfish because we want to cut government spending and we don't want to pay higher taxes. I say what could possibly be more selfish than to borrow money for excessive things that are desired (but not needed) now (what many liberals want) and make kids, grandkids, great grandkids, great great grandkids, etc. (who have no say in the matter) pay that money back.




In late March of 2012 the corporate tax rate in Japan dipped just below ours, giving the U.S. the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world. Liberals here will say that is a conservative talking point and is inaccurate because the U.S. has the second lowest corporate tax rate among such countries when expressed as a percentage of GDP. IMO, that is liberal drivel. Talk to the CEO of a company headquartered outside the U.S. who is thinking about relocating his company from its current location. He's not going to care what the U.S. corporate tax rate is as a percentagle of GDP. He's going to care what his company would have to pay.



I guess so :smile:.

Obama was trained at muslim schools, which teach that lying to a non muslim is a great thing if it means you will gain power over them.

It always amazes me that people don't get that we started having problems with health care when governments started telling insurance companies what they could and could not do. Before that, health care was wonderful and cheap. Just ask your grandparents. The government never makes anything better, only worse.

Our naitional debt is absurd, and if you believe some people, could be well over $100 trillion in real money. Rumors are at least 4 full books are kept, if not more others don't know about. And It could also be a gigantic lie to gain power over us as well. The people in charge want us in chains, and will do anything to get us there. If you look, people linked to Alinsky are in a ton of really powerful positions the world over. That is neither good, nor a coincidence.
I don't know the answer to that, but here alcohol and cigarettes are taxed to the sky so it kind of evens out.
I'm also shocked by how much people pay for health insurance in the first place. I was reading that somebody my age would pay about what I pay in a year for income tax for their health insurance alone, plus about the same amount of income tax!
I'm fascinated by the social programs in the US. They seem to be somewhat jumbled and inefficient and with a great variance by state.

They are pathetic, and don't do anything but destroy people, families, and waste money. I believe though that is their entire purpose to begin with. No one is this stupid. Just this evil.

The difference between states fascinates me. I was getting gas for my Yaris in East Brunswick, New Jersey in 2010 and I asked the attendant why gas is so much cheaper in New Jersey than in New York or Connecticut. He said it is because the gas tax is so much lower and New Jersey makes up for it by having higher cigarette and alcohol taxes than New York and Connecticut. I like the approach New Jersey takes on this because most people have to buy gas, but people don't have to smoke or drink. I just wish the State of New Jersey would let people pump their own gas!

California has been notorious in the past for providing generous social benefits, with some cities going beyond that and providing even more assistance. As a result (at least partially) California has nearly 1/3 of all welfare recipients in the U.S. while having about 1/8 of the population.

A few months ago I was walking into an older Kroger supermarket in Humble, TX (a city that is south of me (in Harris County) and also east of me. This particular Kroger is near a lot of apartments. I noticed what was essentially a government ad promoting food stamps with an eligible income re size of household grid :rolleyes:. This same 'promotion' is NOT on the door of my local Kroger (I think because the median income in my area is too high), but I did notice that 'Obamaphones' are available at my local Kroger :rolleyes:.

I've also been told there are ads currently running in Mexico instructing people how to get food stamps in the U.S. once they get across the border. Why are government workers doing this (and squandering taxpayer money in the process), and why is it the policy coming from above? Because the more people there are enrolled in the program, the more government workers are needed and both of these groups can, *BINGO*, be relied upon to vote for Democrats....and many people believe that this last reason is why the administration has taken the stances it has in various situations re immigration. I think people seeking out the Food Stamp benefit and getting it if they qualify is one thing, but I think initiating/promoting more (some of it BORROWED) money that the taxpayers are on the hook for is despicable. If a certain amount is 'budgeted' and the managers feel or require that that all has to be distributed, then that process needs to be revised.

States should be different, that was the original point. A federal government to make the states get a long, print a common currency, and murder enemies, and make sure the government doesn't round up and kill its own civilians. State governments for everything else. It worked perfectly for 100 years. Then someone thought it was a good idea to let a clueless professor become president, and it has all been downhill since. Ok, so clueless professor is an oxymoron, I do know that.

You're quite correct, nook...
The California State government uses taxpayer money to pay for radio advertising campaigns promoting its food stamp program SNAP, Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program.

Since June 2009, 1,300,000 more people have filed for disability benefits which has become the new welfare.

Last month, while 87,000 new jobs were created, 496,000 people had left the work force. So 6 times more people left the work force as reentered it.

The percentage of working-age adults in the labor force, the participation rate, fell to 63.3 percent last month, breaking the record low set in May 1979 which was the last major recession 34 years ago.

California is beyond bankrupt. We should let them fail, and let their people starve. They of course will do the smart thing and leave.

Oh, and when you are on unemployment, the government officials will tell you to go on disability when it runs out. How insane is that? Not take a job at McDonalds, but go fake a disability. How sick is this country?

[STC]

Gotta have at least one thread in every forum. :wink:

LOL!

[47_MasoN_47]

The US is going to crap. Can barely take a dump without someone in the gov't knowing about it. The gov't has basically nullified the 4th amendment and is working hard on the 2nd. Wouldn't surprise me if they try to get rid of the 1st and 5th soon enough.

[jambo101]

Oh really?

47,000,000 people are on government food stamps.

1 out of every 4 children eat government food in a government school.

The majority in America have created the government they deserve in their own image.




Exactly. :smile:

You left out the 60 million illegals.

I think Americas 15 minutes are up...it was a nice ride while it lasted..

[why?]

You left out the 60 million illegals.

I think Americas 15 minutes are up...it was a nice ride while it lasted..

could be, but i'd rather fight to the death than endure slavery.

[bentjazz]

We are already slaves. Slaves to the State.....
I'm not very optimistic about this country that has become one giant law factory.....

[jambo101]

We are already slaves. Slaves to the State.....
I'm not very optimistic about this country that has become one giant law factory.....

Whats your plan-B,civil war? overthrow the government? Insurrection? revolution?Elect Rush Limbaugh.
Maybe it aint so bad as you think.

[jayeh]

Whats your plan-B,civil war? overthrow the government? Insurrection? revolution?Elect Rush Limbaugh.
Maybe it aint so bad as you think.

My bets are on a US civil war.

[bentjazz]

jambo,
None of the above. Elect Rush Limbaugh? Where'd you get that? What gave you the idea that I'm a Republican? I haven't listened to or read anything of Limbaugh's in my life. If I'm a fan of anyone, it'd be Madison, Locke, Jefferson, Descartes, Aristotle, Socrates, et cetera and so on. Real radicals. What's my plan B? What do you think my plan B is? My plan B should be your plan B. That is, educate myself so I can make an informed decision concerning the direction this country should take. It ain't so bad as I think? Really? This country is going on $20 trillion in debt and it's not as bad as I think. Hey, if you say so, jambo. But remember this, you can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality (AR).....

[jambo101]

I made my plan-B move 45 years ago, i moved to Canada.
As for thinking you are a rightie, my mistake but your posts all seem to reflect a very negative view of your country very much like what i hear on rightwing media sources such as Limbaugh,Beck and FOX.
If you are thinking times are tough in America you have a delema as it aint no better anywhere else.

[bentjazz]

Can't say I blame you for moving to Canada, jambo. At least you have a real political leader in Stephen Harper. I wish we had a man of principle like Stephen Harper in the White House. Just curious, how do you like Canada? In comparison with the US, what are your thoughts?

[bentjazz]

And by the way, I'm more of a libertarian-minded Independent.....

[tk-421]

Closing this thread. Next time, please consider using the political area of the forums for this kind of rhetoric...
(EDIT: I'll probably clean this thread up and reopen it if/when I get some spare time).