Possible fault on Yaris 1NR-FE engine

[Geoff Peace]

I have heard of two cases recently. one at 2,000 miles the other at 4,500 miles from new, of piston slap combined with what has been described as 'carbon build up' on the cylinder head on this engine. This causes a rattle at startup similar to little end chatter it disappears when the engine is warm as piston slap usually does, unless it is excessive. Toyota want to fit new pistons! To me this is beyond belief. Carbon build up at 4,500 miles, and piston slap on 2012 cars. I thought it was a wind up, but evidendly not. Has anyone encountered any such problems in the USA? I would be most grateful for any information.
Regards Geoff Peace.

[BEEF]

We have the 1NZ-FE engines. ours is the 1.5 liter.

I assume that this is for the 1.3 or 1.0 liter engine that we don't get in the US.

I may be wrong and if I am, I apologize in advance.

[Geoff Peace]

We have the 1NZ-FE engines. ours is the 1.5 liter.

I assume that this is for the 1.3 or 1.0 liter engine that we don't get in the US.

I may be wrong and if I am, I apologize in advance.

the 1NR-FE is the 1.33 petrol engine which I think is in the Yaris worldwide. I just could be wrong, however, someone will soon tell me!
Regards Geoff Peace.

[Amdkt7]

1.5L 1NZ-FE is the only engine sold in the US (in the Yaris). Is yours a diesel? In some engines there is so little clearance between some parts of the piston and the head that any carbon build up can cause actual contact to be made, especially when the engine is cold. Any touching is very hard on pistons and connecting rods, which can quickly result in a totally trashed block of scrap metal.
They may want to put in a different piston that has a bit more clearance.

[07stlYaris]

One of the key elements of the 1NR-FE engine is its piston design. Smaller and lighter than on the previous 1.3 unit, they are designed with a smaller contact area and use carbon ceramide, an advanced material commonly used in Formula One engineering.

Above cut from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth.

Also, your engine runs at 11.5:1 compression which leads me to believe that things are pretty tight on the compression stroke to begin with. I would say that if you already have a carbon problem, you have an excess fuel problem or you have fueled it up with diesel (possibly from a tank mixup at the petrol station, not blaming you). To everyone that is going to flame me for the diesel info, gasoline will burn at nearly the same rate when mixed to about 35% diesel and diesel engines will burn gasoline at nearly a 50% mixture safely for a short period of time. Diesels are far more "bad fuel tolerant" than a gasoline engine but both will cause damage eventually. I'm a Caterpillar, Mack, and Detroit certified technician to qualify my commentary. My 2 cents worth.

Gasoline, even in small quantities, mixed with any other petroleum product gives that product the properties of gasoline.

:edit:

I agree with the ecu having to show a fuel issue so with that in mind, I might think there is something mechanical at fault here. Loose wrist pin? washed out rod bearing? Broken ring(s) allowing the piston to tilt??? too much to speculate without at least removing the head to see what's up.

[Amdkt7]

One more worry! I would probably never pump diesel into my car, but what if the tanker pumped some in the wrong location at the gas station? Yikes!
If the car had been running too rich or the wrong fuel I would think there would be some codes stored in the ECU.
Perhaps the quality of the fuel where you live is poor? I would assume that England is where you live, and the fuel should be decent.

[YarisSedan]

Could be using too high of a octane gas, higher octane has slower burn rate which means on the yaris you will have incomplete combustion thus heavy excessive carbon build up.

[Geoff Peace]

the 1NR-FE is the 1.33 petrol engine which I think is in the Yaris worldwide. I just could be wrong, however, someone will soon tell me!
Regards Geoff Peace.

To clarify. In the UK the Yaris can have the 1KR-FE engine 998 cc. petrol. The 1NR-FE 1329 cc. petrol. or the 1ND-TV 1364 cc. diesel. It would seem things are different in the USA. I do not have this fault on my car, it has only done 4,000 miles from new. But as I said I have heard of two cases of cars (1 NR-FE engine) with this fault, with mileages lower than mine. I just wondered if anyone had heard of this in the USA and could explain. As my car is still under warranty I would not attempt anything, that would be up to the dealer.
Regards Geoff Peace.

[Amdkt7]

Ah, good that it is not a problem for you. Hope it stays that way. Should be possible to do an inspection by removing and looking at the spark plugs, and possibly by viewing through the spark plug hole.
What can cause it? Timing off, rich fuel, wrong or contaminated fuel, or prolonged use of high octane fuel (possibly, but I think it would take many miles). I do think the engine should have thrown some codes and even a CEL.

[3rdSEman]

[QUOTE=Has anyone encountered any such problems in the USA? I would be most grateful for any information.
Regards Geoff Peace=QUOTE]

Yes... 1.3 engine has had a bad batch produced from the plant.
North American bound iQ's with 1NR-FE (sole engine fitted) are manufactured in Japan.

http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/engine-transmission-discussion/2204-attn-owners-piston-slap-noise.html

http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/engine-transmission-discussion/1139-engine-problems-report-them-here.html

http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/engine-transmission-discussion/4250-lemon-law-buy-back-process-initiated.html

[jcboy]

the 1NR-FE is the 1.33 petrol engine which I think is in the Yaris worldwide. I just could be wrong, however, someone will soon tell me!
Regards Geoff Peace.

1NR-FE is not available in the Philippines. Malaysia and Thailand get the 1NZ-FE only (similar to the US) with different trim levels.

In the Philippines we have the 1.3 (and the 1.5), but it is the 2NZ-FE model. It is actually 1.29ish as compared to your 1.33.

[Geoff Peace]

[QUOTE=Has anyone encountered any such problems in the USA? I would be most grateful for any information.
Regards Geoff Peace=QUOTE]

Yes... 1.3 engine has had a bad batch produced from the plant.
North American bound iQ's with 1NR-FE (sole engine fitted) are manufactured in Japan.

http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/engine-transmission-discussion/2204-attn-owners-piston-slap-noise.html

http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/engine-transmission-discussion/1139-engine-problems-report-them-here.html

http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/engine-transmission-discussion/4250-lemon-law-buy-back-process-initiated.html
Thankyou very much for the information. Interesting reading.
Regards Geoff Peace.

[bronsin]

How an engine could have carbon buildup that was a problem at 4k miles I cannot even begin to fathom. :iono:

I think its an internet thing. :smile:

[stephenevans99]

New here and this is my first post.

We have just bought a new Yaris Trend CVT - it's covered just 2000 miles since we took delivery in September. I have just noticed a 'clatter' when the engine is stone cold - once warm the noise disappears.

I've spoken to my local Toyota dealership who has informed me of the issue of CARBON BUILD UP and briefly explained that revised/modified pistons will be fitted under warranty.

The car is to be dropped off at Toyota Wednesday evening for them to do a cold start inspection on Thursday morning.

I'm a little annoyed with it being a brand new car BUT I'm not gonna get wound up over it - just hope it gets rectified. I'll keep you posted :)

Steve

[Lars]

Shit I've got a 1NR-FE engine... :/

It's got 10k miles on it... and it's really cold out here now and I don't notice anything strange... hopefully my batch is not the bad one...

My problem is... I bought the car with 9k miles on it about one month ago... so I wouldn't know if it's making any new noises or not... I haven't noticed anything alarming but now you've got me paranoid :p

I do notice one thing though... engine automatic start/stop only works above 5ºC (42ºF) more or less... do you know if this is normal? Thanks!

[thetut]

Lars,

I noticed a few weeks ago that my Yaris would only start if I held the key in the start position when it was cold. The cranking also felt slower than usual.

I changed the battery and now it functions as designed.

Your battery may be getting weak.

[Lars]

Lars,

I noticed a few weeks ago that my Yaris would only start if I held the key in the start position when it was cold. The cranking also felt slower than usual.

I changed the battery and now it functions as designed.

Your battery may be getting weak.

Hi thetut,

Good point. Was your start/stop not working also before you switched your battery?

When I stop at traffic lights or whatever the indicator "ECO OFF" simply turns on and it doesn't shut off the engine (on low temps, like I mentioned). I guess it can make sense that it is a battery problem as batteries "lose juice" when cold, I guess?

Thanks!

[thetut]

Hi Lars,

I don't have the ECO function so I guess we are talking about separate problems. I thought you were talking about the feature that allows the starter to continue to crank the engine without holding the key in the start position.

I would still have your battery tested if I were you.

Cold weather and batteries cause strange problems.

[Lars]

Hi Lars,

I don't have the ECO function so I guess we are talking about separate problems. I thought you were talking about the feature that allows the starter to continue to crank the engine without holding the key in the start position.

I would still have your battery tested if I were you.

Cold weather and batteries cause strange problems.

Hi Tut!

Oh interesting... I would have assumed that all 1NR-FE would have the ECO thingy... so maybe it is normal that on low temps ECO doesn't kick in?

Maybe I'll open a new thread for that... but I'm not really worried, I can ask at the next inspection.

Thanks!