Tracking Driving Habits with OBDII port (for insurance savings)

[edmscan]

Does anyone use a Snapshot (Progressive Insurance in US) or Ajusto (Desjardins Insurance in Canada) for their OBDII port in their Yaris, to track their driving habits (for insurance purposes) ?

I am hoping that my insurance company offers this soon .. as they offer up to 25% off on your insurance rates.

This is what they are calling "Usage Based" insurance, and is apparently gaining popularity worldwide.

[Septembersrain]

>_< I think I drive good but I do speed...

[edmscan]

I don't know about the Progressive Insurance (US) program .. but the following is information on the Desjardins Insurance (Canadian) savings program. (just information I got from their website)

Annual savings are based on:

Kilometres. Do you drive less than 15,000 km/year? With ******, the less your vehicle is driven, the more you save—up to 10%!

Acceleration and braking. The more smoothly your vehicle is driven, the bigger your savings—up to 10%!

Are you a good driver?

You avoid accelerating fast and braking hard in your vehicle by not tailgating or speeding through yellow lights. It's these safe driving habits that make ******* perfect for you!

Travel times. Certain times of the day are less risky on the roads (example: weekend, during the day), and less risk means more savings—up to 5%!

Based on the data collected for these 3 driving habits, ********* Insurance will calculate if you are eligible for renewal premium savings.

Kilometres up to 10% savings

Acceleration and up to 10% savings
braking

Travel times up to 5% savings

Annual savings Up to 25%

[edmscan]

I think as a Yaris driver (I drive like a granny ... so I think it would be good for me, but it is not available yet in my area) .. this would be a very good option for saving on Insurance rates.

[nookandcrannycar]

I drive like a granny as well. I think I'm frugal and value conscious. People who live beyond their means usually think I'm cheap. I love my family. If my little cousin who inspired my Yarisworld screen name asks me to buy her a new car when she turns 16, I'll probably do it if it's okay with her mom (she's 11 now). If the U.S. was like many other industrialized nations (where if you move out of the country you don't owe income tax (yeah I know the U.S. has a limited credit if you are paying income tax to a foriegn government), you can come back a limited number of days each year, and you don't have to give up your citizenship) I would be gone in a heartbeat. However, the U.S. taxes on worldwide income and the only way (to my understanding) to get permanently disengaged from being beholden to the IRS (never again having to think about how to reduce or eliminate liability) is to do as Eduardo Saverin did-- give up your U.S. citizenship and pay what amounts to an 'exit fee'. I'm not willing to do either. When it comes to the IRS, the IRS gets exactly what I owe them. When it comes to corporations, I view them as wanting to extract as much money from me as possible and I'm out to make sure they get as little of my money as possible, with one exception: I'm not willing to give up more privacy just to save money. I think corporations are too intrusive. I don't have anything to hide. I'm just a libertarian who also thinks that our overreaching government (aided by technology) is eroding our civil liberties and constitutional protections to a degree that is unconstitutional, in the name of 'keeping us safe' :rolleyes:. No offense meant to you personally (and I usually agree with you), I just think that such products in the U.S. market are among the most insidious offered by any corporation and I have a skeptical view re to what end the information would be used. Perhaps if I were more familiar with all of the ins and outs of how a like scenario would work/play out in Canada, I would feel as you do re how such a product would apply to your situation.

[edmscan]

I have nothing to hide, as I feel I am a good driver. I too am frugal, for lack of a better word. (ok call me cheap, but I am not too cheap, but do like saving a buck.)

The only concern I have is that people have said since installing their "Snapshot" device, they have had issues with drained batteries. This would be a deal breaker for me, as I am not accepting for problems with my car just to save a few bucks.

Maybe someone can inform me if the device when plugged into your port would actually be capable of draining your battery ? I know that my ScanGauge shuts itself off when I turn off the ignition.

I am not terribly concerned about any privacy issues with such a device at this point. It has been stated that the devices will NOT be used to raise insurance rates, but solely to determine if people would qualify for a discount.

[nookandcrannycar]

It has been stated that the devices will NOT be used to raise insurance rates, but solely to determine if people would qualify for a discount.

It would be unfair to flat out claim the above is untrue, but I'm just too cynical to think that it is likely.

I forgot to include one thing on my previous post -- generally, my cynicism in that post DOES NOT extend to the military. If other parts of our government were run as well as many parts of the military are, the government, IMO, would have fewer problems/issues. I've generally had that same impression within Canada as well re Canadian personnel.

I don't know if the device you mention would drain the battery or not.

[edmscan]

I have learned that the "Ajusto" device (the device used in Canada) goes into "Sleep Mode" when the car is shut off, much like a ScanGauge device.

I don't know about the SnapShot device used by Progressive in the US, but I am sure that their website probably has the answer.

[nookandcrannycar]

I have learned that the "Ajusto" device (the device used in Canada) goes into "Sleep Mode" when the car is shut off, much like a ScanGauge device.

I don't know about the SnapShot device used by Progressive in the US, but I am sure that their website probably has the answer.

It is probably better (more beneficial to you) that you have the perspective you do, and there's probably a 99.9 percent chance that what is being presented to you is true. I just think the concept itself is insidious, and I wouldn't believe what is being claimed unless the technology was explained to me, I understood it, and could see for myself that the settings on the device match what is claimed. Earlier tonight I ran into a friend I hadn't seen in a few months. He has his own small company. He designs and installs elaborate security/computer/cameras systems etc....for some reason mostly for big ranches and ships registered to foreign oil companies. He's a really calm, health oriented guy. He said tonight 'Remember, never trust anyone'. I can't possibly go to that extreme, I just have a lot more cynicism than most people. Perhaps what he does has influenced him (kind of like a divorce lawyer not wanting to be married). With me, it's having experienced a lot of lies in personal situations.

[seth_man]

i used snapshot, used it for 3 months, got a 22% discount. still drove normally, pleanty of 80+mph highway cruises, just gotta watch the time of day you drive and how hard you decelerate or brake.

[edmscan]

i used snapshot, used it for 3 months, got a 22% discount. still drove normally, pleanty of 80+mph highway cruises, just gotta watch the time of day you drive and how hard you decelerate or brake.

I totally think that this would be a money saving option for me, as I am a pretty cautious driver.

Did you have any issues with your Snapshot ? Like car battery problems.

[nookandcrannycar]

i used snapshot, used it for 3 months, got a 22% discount. still drove normally, pleanty of 80+mph highway cruises, just gotta watch the time of day you drive and how hard you decelerate or brake.

This may sound rhetorical, but were you already with Progressive because they were already the lowest quote you obtained? I obtained quotes from them in the past (BEFORE snapshot) and they were never the cheapest.

I must admit though, if you have to sit through a commercial, their commercials are better than most.

[edmscan]

Of course a consumer has to check the market to see if this "Usage Based" insurance is for them.

I pay about 900$ for my Yaris now, so if I got quoted $1200 for Usage Based insurance even with the maximum 25% discount, it just wouldn't make financial sense. So there have to be the right numbers for it to make financial sense.

I understand some people may have privacy concerns, but to me it is really a non issue. I don't care if my insurance company finds out whether I drive 5,000 or 10,000 km or if I drive at 7 PM at night or 2 AM. This really isn't an invasion of my personal privacy, so I don't have a problem with it.

As was mentioned above .. you will just get a bigger discount if you are a good driver and do the right things. Really if you think about it, the insurance company would obviously have a customer base full of good safe drivers as it will just save them money in claims. So it is a win-win for everyone involved.

The insurance company wins cause drivers are more cautious as they know they are being monitored and the driver wins cause they are being rewarded for their safe driving habits.

[Absolutely Red 12]

Does anyone use a Snapshot (Progressive Insurance in US) or Ajusto (Desjardins Insurance in Canada) for their OBDII port in their Yaris, to track their driving habits (for insurance purposes) ?

I am hoping that my insurance company offers this soon .. as they offer up to 25% off on your insurance rates.

This is what they are calling "Usage Based" insurance, and is apparently gaining popularity worldwide.

Better they not know my driving habits!!:biggrin:

[edmscan]

Better they not know my driving habits!!:biggrin:

If you are not a safe cautious driver (or drive a "performance" Yaris) .. I can understand your desire.

My Yaris is stock .. so I don't go anywhere very fast.

[Absolutely Red 12]

They penalize for mileage, hard braking, and driving between midnight and 4 am!!

This is LA, hard braking happens evry 10 minutes, due to idiots out here.

Between midnight and 4 am is the quietest time of the day!!

Its stupid.

[edmscan]

They penalize for mileage, hard braking, and driving between midnight and 4 am!!

This is LA, hard braking happens evry 10 minutes, due to idiots out here.

Between midnight and 4 am is the quietest time of the day!!

Its stupid.

I can understand your issues, it is not for everyone.

[nookandcrannycar]

They penalize for mileage

When I changed my registration to Texas, that being 'kept track of' by the state took some getting used to. We have mandatory yearly vehicle inspections here and one of the bits of information transmitted to the state is your odometer reading.

[edmscan]

It really isn't a penalty .. just a fact of how insurance works. Drivers that drive more are more likely to get into accidents and thus they SHOULD pay higher insurance rates than those drivers that seldom drive.

[nookandcrannycar]

Of course a consumer has to check the market to see if this "Usage Based" insurance is for them.

I pay about 900$ for my Yaris now, so if I got quoted $1200 for Usage Based insurance even with the maximum 25% discount, it just wouldn't make financial sense. So there have to be the right numbers for it to make financial sense.

I understand some people may have privacy concerns, but to me it is really a non issue. I don't care if my insurance company finds out whether I drive 5,000 or 10,000 km or if I drive at 7 PM at night or 2 AM. This really isn't an invasion of my personal privacy, so I don't have a problem with it.

As was mentioned above .. you will just get a bigger discount if you are a good driver and do the right things. Really if you think about it, the insurance company would obviously have a customer base full of good safe drivers as it will just save them money in claims. So it is a win-win for everyone involved.

The insurance company wins cause drivers are more cautious as they know they are being monitored and the driver wins cause they are being rewarded for their safe driving habits.

A lady was driving on the 'Inner Loop' in Houston (this is Interstate 610, the Ineer (first ring) beltway that encircles Houston. She saw a guy and a woman driving in a car and the man was beating the woman. The lady called 911 from her cell phone. A few hours later she got a call on her cell phone. It was from the 2 involved in the fight. When they were in the back of the police car, the cop left his laptop screen in view and they saw the lady's number.

I was listening to a radio show sometime this Spring. A man calls in. He tells the host that a good friend of his bought some 'survivalist' books on his Kindle. Later the good friend got hassled quite a bit (because of these book purchases) when his security clearance was up for renewal.

'Lumping' by driving record sort of already exists. If your driving record all of a sudden gets really bad, you may get put into a separate assigned risk company that has the same parent company...and of course you will pay more with the assigned risk company.

People definitely have different views re privacy and a right to privacy. I was just reading a bit about the U.S. constitutional right to privacy on one of the stanford.edu websites. The line I found to be the most sage essentially stated that which personal decisions have been protected by the privacy right has varied depending upon the makeup of the court (the Supreme Court of the United States). We saw that with the decision this week in the DNA case with Scalia and the ladies (an unusual subset) in the minority and feeling as I do.

I pay about $500 per year for (specifically) my auto policy, so my savings with your path would be barely over half your savings.

[nookandcrannycar]

It really isn't a penalty .. just a fact of how insurance works. Drivers that drive more are more likely to get into accidents and thus they SHOULD pay higher insurance rates than those drivers that seldom drive.

I'm okay with the reporting of the mileage thing because I understand an entity that makes the assumption that people are going to lie. I remember when 'your' agent asked you how many miles you drove a year -- just when starting with a new agent. Then the subject was never broached again. Obviously, as the world changed, that was no longer good enough. What I feel 'pushes over the line' are 2 things I can think of right away 1. 'you need to have a front plate on because the cops need to see the front plates of criminals' (a dubious perceived requirement IMO) -- even if I am not a criminal, I'm getting lumped in with them (IMO) and 2. The SCOTUS decision this week re taking a DNA sample of someone ACCUSED of a serious felony to see if the DNA matches any unsolved cases. I'm fine with this if they do it to someone who has just been CONVICTED, but not merely ACCUSED.

[RedRide]

I got nothing to hide either but.....

I have been driving for many decades and never had an accident . I started driving defensibly from square one before it was even called "defensive driving" . To me it was always the only way to drive.
The only time I ever filled any sort of claim is when my car was hit when legally parked.

However, I often l go for WOT and other things an insurance company would raise my rates for. I never put my car ( or any other car) in danger no matter what I do

It's like like this.... you can not say a person will most likely die (or not) if he jumps out of a airplane if you have no idea if he is an experience skydiver and has a parachute or, if he is just an idiot jumping out of a plane sans a parachute.
These insurance OBD monitors can not detect any sort of "parachute", experience, circumstances, etc and often reward bad bad drivers while penalizing good ones.

As the saying goes, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

[seth_man]

I totally think that this would be a money saving option for me, as I am a pretty cautious driver.

Did you have any issues with your Snapshot ? Like car battery problems.


only issue, if you can call it an issue is that unless you have an dlc port splitter you cannot run more than 1 obd device, i have a blitz r-vit (a fancy scanguage) and i had to get a splitter cable to run both at the same time. battery power will never run out, the snapshot device used a very small amout of power, in sleep mode with the car off current draw was only .06 mA.

This may sound rhetorical, but were you already with Progressive because they were already the lowest quote you obtained? I obtained quotes from them in the past (BEFORE snapshot) and they were never the cheapest.

I must admit though, if you have to sit through a commercial, their commercials are better than most.


i was already with progressive because they were the lowest rate for identical coverage, i have been with progressive for 8 years and all the cars and house are all with progressive, every year i call them and hassel them about the rate and ususally it gets dropped a little.

If you are not a safe cautious driver (or drive a "performance" Yaris) .. I can understand your desire.

My Yaris is stock .. so I don't go anywhere very fast.


if you dont put a lot of miles on your car or you dont drive at night often then its for you weather you drive fast or not, i am a very offensive driver, i do not drive slow and i do drive a "performance" yaris. wide sticky tires and lots of suspension upgrades helped me because i dont brake that often or slow down for corners, stop signs and red lights need to be anticipated so you dont brake to hard but since they dont take speed into consideration you can still drive as fast as you want. i did however take the snapshot out of my car when i go autox due to the lots of hard braking

[Absolutely Red 12]

When I changed my registration to Texas, that being 'kept track of' by the state took some getting used to. We have mandatory yearly vehicle inspections here and one of the bits of information transmitted to the state is your odometer reading.


Wouldnt you want to make sure the odometer wasnt tampered with when you buy a used car?

[Absolutely Red 12]

I got nothing to hide either but.....

I have been driving for many decades and never had an accident . I started driving defensibly from square one before it was even called "defensive driving" . To me it was always the only way to drive.
The only time I ever filled any sort of claim is when my car was hit when legally parked.

However, I often l go for WOT and other things an insurance company would raise my rates for. I never put my car ( or any other car) in danger no matter what I do

It's like like this.... you can not say a person will most likely die (or not) if he jumps out of a airplane if you have no idea if he is an experience skydiver and has a parachute or, if he is just an idiot jumping out of a plane sans a parachute.
These insurance OBD monitors can not detect any sort of "parachute", experience, circumstances, etc and often reward bad bad drivers while penalizing good ones.

As the saying goes, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

:clap:

[Absolutely Red 12]

It really isn't a penalty .. just a fact of how insurance works. Drivers that drive more are more likely to get into accidents and thus they SHOULD pay higher insurance rates than those drivers that seldom drive.

I'll play the devil's advocate:

Drivers that drive more, have more experience!!

My last accident was 1976, Im still being rated by my mileage, and zip code.
Not my driving record!!.

Can they tell I just drove 800 miles through desert highways, which I just did!

[CrankyOldMan]

I'd like to get one of these and take it to an AutoX event. See what kind of rates they quote me with. =)

[edmscan]

My last accident was 1976

My last accident was last December. Guess I am one of those bad drivers. :laugh:

[nookandcrannycar]

only issue, if you can call it an issue is that unless you have an dlc port splitter you cannot run more than 1 obd device, i have a blitz r-vit (a fancy scanguage) and i had to get a splitter cable to run both at the same time. battery power will never run out, the snapshot device used a very small amout of power, in sleep mode with the car off current draw was only .06 mA.




i was already with progressive because they were the lowest rate for identical coverage, i have been with progressive for 8 years and all the cars and house are all with progressive, every year i call them and hassel them about the rate and ususally it gets dropped a little.




if you dont put a lot of miles on your car or you dont drive at night often then its for you weather you drive fast or not, i am a very offensive driver, i do not drive slow and i do drive a "performance" yaris. wide sticky tires and lots of suspension upgrades helped me because i dont brake that often or slow down for corners, stop signs and red lights need to be anticipated so you dont brake to hard but since they dont take speed into consideration you can still drive as fast as you want. i did however take the snapshot out of my car when i go autox due to the lots of hard braking

Very interesting...and your answer already answered what was going to be my next question (which was - Does Progressive currently have other lines (other than Auto) that consumers can bundle with to get a multi-policy discount?).

[nookandcrannycar]

I got nothing to hide either but.....

I have been driving for many decades and never had an accident . I started driving defensibly from square one before it was even called "defensive driving" . To me it was always the only way to drive.
The only time I ever filled any sort of claim is when my car was hit when legally parked.

However, I often l go for WOT and other things an insurance company would raise my rates for. I never put my car ( or any other car) in danger no matter what I do

It's like like this.... you can not say a person will most likely die (or not) if he jumps out of a airplane if you have no idea if he is an experience skydiver and has a parachute or, if he is just an idiot jumping out of a plane sans a parachute.
These insurance OBD monitors can not detect any sort of "parachute", experience, circumstances, etc and often reward bad bad drivers while penalizing good ones.

As the saying goes, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

:thumbsup: I definitely agree.

[nookandcrannycar]

Wouldnt you want to make sure the odometer wasnt tampered with when you buy a used car?

I haven't lived in Texas long enough to know the whole history here re having inspections (what might be an official reason, what might be the real 'nudge nudge wink wink' reason, etc). The IMPRESSION I get from my own experience with the inspections here and listening to people who have lived here 2, 3, 4 times as long as I have is that the inspections are an excuse to generate revenue for the state/help a little cottage industry of people setting up their 'inspection shingles' (so to speak) and not to measurably make the roadways safer. My first thought about why they want to know the mileage is that they would sell the information to insurance companies so that insurance companies can check to see if the mileage affidavits that their customers are swearing to are likely correct, but your question could certainly be another plausible reason.

I've only had 2 cars that either I or another family member didn't buy new. One was my first car that I bought with my own money. My dad was working for a Ford dealer at the time and the General Manager gave it to me for the amount the trade amount (so the dealer didn't make any money nor lose any money), which was WAY under wholesale book. My dad approached the GM after the car had already been evaluated and taken in from the customer. The other car I had that was used was a Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 AWD Manual Transmission (very hard to find when I bought one). I'd always wanted one. It had a salvage title and had been rebuilt by a mechanic who buys such (salvage title and the like) and rebuilds them. I knew I had little way of knowing how many miles were on it, but it was so inexpensive I felt it was worth it even if it lasted 20k miles (it was a second car). I drove it through California, Nevada, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana (over the Going To The Sun Highway), Idaho again, Washington, Idaho again, Wahington again, Oregon, and then California again. On a later trip, I was driving on CA 58 near the intersection with 395 (on my way to Las Vegas for New Year's Eve) and with about (ironically) 20k miles since purchase it threw a rod and I let the towing yard have it. Those 20k miles were definitely worth what I spent.

I don't know if I'll ever buy a used car again (....only, I think, if I found an 'Idahotomlike' RAV 4), but yes I'd like to be able to rely on the mileage stated re a used car. I'd only believe it if I knew how any state tracking would specifically ebsure that and believed in the integrity of that procedure. The only thing is, applying your question to Texas, I would think that would only be truly knowable for cars that had never been registered outside of Texas, or (if they had) had only been registered in other states that have the same requirements Texas does.

Has California instituted any policies recently that help consumers re odometer tampering?

[nookandcrannycar]

Im still being rated by my mileage, and zip code.


...and the computer system at at least one insurance company (mine) is programmed to set the rate to your mailing address. My house and my UPS Store PMB box are in different zip codes. When I got my initial quote (which was the lowest I found), it was based on my house address. I hadn't given the agent the other address yet (and the other address wasn't in any database for me yet---other than the UPS Store). After noting the advantageous terms, I signed up for the policy and gave my UPS Sore PMB address. I soon got the paperwork there (different zip) and the rate was about 10% less. I talked to my new agent and he said that's just the way their system applies it, that even if they were able to change it, it would 'correct back' to what I had in front of me. He said, 'count your blessings'. This probably gives them an edge when I do comparisons each year.