Torn between the 2!

[Yaris Revenge]

So I've been shopping for cars online for MONTHS now (holy CRAP, has it been a YEAR?!?!), and I think I've narrowed it down to 2 models.

Most of you guys will think I'm nuts, but right now I'm pitting the Yaris liftback against the '08 Smart Fortwo. Crazy, isn't it?

My two main concerns are price and fuel economy, followed closely by fun and comfort. When you start comparing the two, it's an odd lineup of advantages.

Yaris Advantages:
1.) More room (a whole back seat, plus cargo area)
2.) More power (always important for the fun factor)
3.) More dealers available for servicing

Fortwo Advantages
1.) Nicer interior
2.) Better MPG
3.) More standard options
4.) Quite possibly safer (jury's still out on crash tests for the new gen)
5.) better handling

Price will be very close, once you outfit the Yaris with comparable options. Both also have the "what-the-hell-is-that" factor that I love (the Smart more so, of course).

So yeah, that's gonna' be a tough decision come 2008. It'll really come down to the test drives. I've been in a Yaris liftback w/ automatic, and didn't much care for it. I'll have to find a manual to try out, then find the Smarts when they get here.
:burnrubber:

~YR

[Vervepipes]

If the rear room is an issue, isnt there supposed to be a Forfour? Maybe they arent building it anymore?

Wow, I just went to thier UK website and they have 4 models total, in Canada we only get the Fortwo at the moment...

[Dragonacc]

I would not buy the Fortwo if you have to drive on the highway. The Yaris with 107 hp is not really suited for high speed (~80+) driving. The 70 hp Fortwo will be terrible IMO.

Smart is owned by MB, don't count on great reliability from it. The Europeans just don't build reliable cars.

Also, theres no way the Fortwo will be safer than a Yaris. I know everyone always shows that video of the Fortwo slamming into the concrete barrier. But where were the safety dummies? So what if the car wasn't crushed up, what kind of forces would the people inside experience? America is full of SUVs.

Lastly, the Fortwo is over-priced. 12k for the base and 14k for the better equipped version (Don't forget early dealer mark-ups). It's half a car, it only has a 3 cylinder and it still costs more than a Yaris...? The the extra money you spend will take a long time make up the difference in price with gas savings vs the Yaris.

*Rant off*

[jamal1984]

anyone know how much is the Fortwo cost? around $11,000 dollars?

[Dragonacc]

anyone know how much is the Fortwo cost? around $11,000 dollars?

I read 12k base, 14k upscale, 17k convertible.

base doesn't have a radio btw

[jamal1984]

I read 12k base, 14k upscale, 17k convertible.

base doesn't have a radio btw

Man, that is kindda expensive.

14k Upscale and 17k Convertible. what is the different in options? or it's just cost more because of the convertible? are they both ABS Standard?

[Dragonacc]

Man, that is kindda expensive.

14k Upscale and 17k Convertible. what is the different in options? or it's just cost more because of the convertible? are they both ABS Standard?

I don't know the different features for each model. The only thing I read was that the upscale adds a radio and "other convenience features". The convertible comes with the upscale features.

I imagine the added features are power locks and windows, keyless entry, and hopefully some other stuff for the extra $2k.

[Nutzoids]

All of them have ABS Standard... The reason why the "Pure" is 12k without a radio... OR an AC!

Keep that in mind too... NO AC!

By the time you buy an AC, Radio, and whatever else you want, you might as well just drop the extra dough and get the "Passion" at least you'll get the Panorama roof!


:evil:

[Yaris Revenge]

ABS is just the beginning. Pretty much any vehicle option you can assign 3 letters to, the Fortwo has it (aside from GPS). I'd have to look them all up... may take some time, but I'll try to find them all.

As far as the highway speed issue, you must drive A LOT faster than I ever do. In my 14 years of driving, I've hit 80 mph maybe 3 times. The Smart has an electronically limited top speed of 90, for those who buy one and are utterly insane. :wink: Agreed though, they'll probably be a bit twitch at high speeds because of the short wheel base and hard suspension.

On the safety bit, there's also a video of the Fortwo with dummy hitting a Mercedes E-class in a frontal offset test. The Smart came out in better shape. I've always thought that a lot of this "crumple zone" impact absorption stuff was really geared more towards increasing the repair business, new sales, and cheaper construction than safety, but that's just me and my conspiracy theories.

Sans radio wouldn't phase me one bit. Stock radios belong in the trash anyway. :biggrin:

Again, if it was THAT overpriced, I wouldn't be comparing them. The mid-level Passion model will be right on target with a Yaris with power options, give or take ~$800. The Fortwo is estimated to get a combined average of 40 mpg, so that means all the highway travel I do would make it considerably higher.

Oh, and pay no attention to the UK site. They're WAY overdue for an update. Smart has discontinued every model but the Fortwo, and the pics they have there are of the previous gen bodystyle.

~YR

[Nutzoids]

Smart has discontinued every model but the Fortwo

~YR

:eek: NO...... :cry:

You have no idea how badly I wanted the Smart Roadster

Fucking ass monkeys!

[Yaris Revenge]

Amen, Nutz! :laugh:

Okay, here we go with the safety gadgets:

Dual front and side airbags
ESP - electronic stability program
ABS - anti-lock brake system
EBD - electronic brake force distribution (for steering in emergencies)
CBC - cornering brake control
BAS - brake assist (applies full brake power when it detects emergency braking)

plus all the passive safety features like the tridion frame, crumple zones (albeit tiny ones!), break away engine, collapsible steering coloumn, etc.

And that's on EVERY model, even the base.

Oh, and the Passion come with paddle shifters on the wheel. :thumbsup:

Nutz, you'll be pleased to know that Project Kimber has purchased everything related to the Smart Roadster, and plan to reintroduce it themselves, though probably with a bit of restyling. (http://www.projectkimber.com/)
~YR

[Dragonacc]

I used to drive 80 mph as my normal cruising speed on the highway, I don't anymore - small cars really don't like going that fast.

As far as mileage is concerned I get 40mpg with my Yaris with a 40/60 mix of highway/city.

Best thing to do would be to test drive both and then really evaluate what your needs are. Pick the one that fits your needs better. My personal opinion is that the Fortwo is over-hyped.

I guess you've considered the Fit, Versa, and Accent too huh?

[Yaris Revenge]

Yeah, I dig the Accent also (and my wife's Tuscon is great), but I kinda want better mileage. Not totally out of the running... I like the Accent interior much more than the Yaris.

The Fit is so ass-ugly I can't talk myself into even considering it (not to mention overpriced).

The Versa is a bit homely as well, and looks almost as big as the car I drive now.

~YR

[ChinoCharles]

The Fourtwo is not a car that belongs here. We have things like semi trucks... I don't know if they don't have semis in Europe, but I'll bet there aren't many idiots driving next to them in Fourtwos.

I feel scared enough on the freeway in my Yaris. The thought of someone hitting me and me losing the ass end makes me want to puke... lose the rear of a Yaris at 70 MPH and you'll be lucky to escape alive. Try it in a Fourtwo and... wow. I don't even know why they're bringing it here to be honest. Reminds me of the Segway... seems revolutionary at first sight, until you realize its totally impractical and WAY overpriced for what you can do with it.

Fourtwos are for people who already have real cars to drive and don't mind spending 15 grand on a novelty item, or people that live in sprawling urban metropolises that might want to turn a 45 minute walk into a 5 or 10 minute 25 MPH drive.

My advice... buy a real car.

[Yaris Revenge]

The Fourtwo is not a car that belongs here. We have things like semi trucks... I don't know if they don't have semis in Europe, but I'll bet there aren't many idiots driving next to them in Fourtwos.

I feel scared enough on the freeway in my Yaris. The thought of someone hitting me and me losing the ass end makes me want to puke... lose the rear of a Yaris at 70 MPH and you'll be lucky to escape alive. Try it in a Fourtwo and... wow. I don't even know why they're bringing it here to be honest. Reminds me of the Segway... seems revolutionary at first sight, until you realize its totally impractical and WAY overpriced for what you can do with it.

Fourtwos are for people who already have real cars to drive and don't mind spending 15 grand on a novelty item, or people that live in sprawling urban metropolises that might want to turn a 45 minute walk into a 5 or 10 minute 25 MPH drive.

My advice... buy a real car.

Well, there's already a Hyundai Tuscon and a Chevy Z71 extended cab in the family, so I think I've got the "real car" category covered. :wink:

I'm just looking for a small commuter now to replace my aging Vibe (probably have 150k miles by '08), which really has twice the amount of space I ever need.

Concerning the "totally impractical and WAY overpriced for what you can do with it", I'm looking at the same price as a Yaris, and all I'm really losing is a back seat...? If I truly needed back seats, I wouldn't even be looking at a Yaris. :biggrin:

~SM

[ChinoCharles]

In that case the Smart might work for you, but realize you're spending a whole lot of money for the novelty aspect of the car... kind of like how Yaris owners who got their cars almost a year ago likely spent a small premium to get a car that was hard-to-find at the time. It sounds like you're well-off enough for this to not really matter.

Another factor to consider... are you still going to have the Smart in 10 years or is it something to tide you over for now, and if you don't plan on keeping it forever what is the resale going to be like on a car like that? I'd bet the Yaris or something comparable will hold its value much more than a Fourtwo.

You could always just bite the bullet and get a motorcycle. :wink:

[Yaris Revenge]

Ha, I failed to mention my '06 Buell Lightning, didn't I?
Motorcycle: check. :biggrin:

Yeah, I've been enamored with the Fortwo since it came out in 1998, so I don't see me getting bored with it down the road. If I went off the deep end and bought the convertible, it would probably be my last car (right up to the point it became a bug in that Mack's grille). :laugh:

~YR

[Dragonacc]

How do you like the Buell? I keep wanting to go test ride a xb12r

[Yaris Revenge]

How do you like the Buell? I keep wanting to go test ride a xb12r

Y'know, I've never ridden any other sportbikes, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I can't imagine wanting anything more from a bike. I've got the XB12Ss, and it'll go much, MUCH faster than I'm willing to. LOVE the freakin' torque. It's got a much lower top speed than other bikes it's size, but I'll never need 140 mph on the street, so I don't see that as a problem. They're awesome looking machines, and simple to work on. I'm actually fond of the plastic body pieces as well... cheap to replace, and scuff rather than dent.

I butt-tested an R and didn't like it... that bent-over racing position just isn't for me. The Ss seating position with the thick gel seat is more comfortable than any of the cruisers I sat on. :biggrin:

From what I've read, the there only 2 bad things about Buells. 1st, they're serviced at H-D dealerships that generally don't give a rats ass about sportbikes. Second, you generally get ragged like hell from guys on Jap and Italian bikes because of the lower spec numbers and the ties to the H-D Sportster's air-cooled engine. Dunno why people make such a big to-do over max specs... never been into pissing contests myself. :wink:

If you really want to get the scoop on Buells, check out http://www.badweatherbikers.com/ . Best Buell forum out there. :thumbsup:

~YR

[Nutzoids]

Most Recent thing I found!

Smart is coming to the U.S. in 2008, but only with the fortwo city car. But another of the DaimlerChrysler-owned firm's models could arrive the year after - wearing the badge of legendary British brand AC.

2008 AC AceDC axed production of the smart roadster and roadster coupé at the end of last year as part of its cost-cutting. But bosses are on the verge of selling the entire venture including tooling to a group of enthusiasts based in the U.K. Called Project Kimber, it has some heavyweight support including Gordon Murray, the brains behind the outrageous McLaren F1 supercar. It's close to obtaining financial backing from sources in Europe and Hong Kong, and the memorandum of understanding it signed with DaimlerChrysler last February is about to become a contractual reality.



The first three official images of the two-seater - to be called the AC Ace - have also been revealed. Production is expected to begin in the middle of next year, with prices from around $23,000 to $37,000. Both right-hand-drive and left-hand-drive models will be available, and a U.S. launch is slated for 2009.



Power will come from the same Mitsubishi-sourced 1.0-liter three-cylinder gasoline engine that's in the second generation smart fortwo. There will be three different versions of each AC, both naturally aspirated and turbocharged. It's being hinted that alternative powertrains such as hybrid or even electric models could be considered in the future. However, that's unconfirmed at this stage. Predicted volumes are around 7000 cars in the first twelve months and more in subsequent years.



2008 AC AceThe spokesman was keen to point out that while Project Kimber is solely focused on getting the Ace Roadster and Coupé off the ground now, there's every chance there will be more vehicles to follow. The spokesman told us: "It's too early to talk about the longer term, but this is not going to be a one-model strategy. The plan is to develop the brand. Under the licensing agreement reached with AC other iconic names from the company's archives can be made available." That could leave the way open to a return for names such as Cobra, Aceca, or even Greyhound.

By the way... How long can you hold off for a new car?

BMW
Mazda
Saturn

Are all coming out with a Hatch Back Econo-car soon!

:evil:

[Dragonacc]

I really like the way the Mazda 2 is looking, should be a nice little car.

[ChinoCharles]

I really like the way the Mazda 2 is looking, should be a nice little car.

Its no Yaris, but it'll have to do. :thumbsup:

[brickhardmeat]

noy a Smart fan, something that small should get unreal gas mileage and from what I've read doesn't sound all that appealing, i guess if you are in a very conjested city with no trucks, not Dallas where I live, then you might like being able to park it on the side walk, I almost get plowed in my Yaris here:burnrubber:

[Black Yaris]

check youtube for smartcar test crash not a pretty site, would not want one, scarry compared to the yaris test crash

[Yaris Revenge]

check youtube for smartcar test crash not a pretty site, would not want one, scarry compared to the yaris test crash
Um, which crash test would be "not pretty"? There was no cabin intrusion in either one??? And though I haven't seen the crash test for the Yaris , I heard it got pretty low marks.

Brick, yeah, you'd think it'd get awesome mileage, but it's heavy considering it's half the size of our smallest cars and sporting all plastic body panels. The "tridion" frame is reinforced reinforced steel, which is where all the weight comes from. Jaws of life can't even get through it (that's in the emergency response team's manual). It's a freakin' brick.

I really like the Mazda 2, but I don't think it'll get here before my Vibe finally craps out on me. I'd have at least 180k miles on it by then, and I don't want to wait around on it to become a money pit. The Saturn Astra is gonna' be awesome (always been a Saturn fan), but starting prices have been estimated at around $15-16k... not exactly my idea of economy.

~YR

[ChinoCharles]

Psst... you're on a Yaris forum. You won't get us to tell you to spring for the Smart. :tongue:

[elsteverino889]

Dude i think it would be cool to be one of the first ones to get ur hands on a smart car in the US...other than that if ur not into being the first at things get the yaris. bcuz 3 cylinder 2 seater that gets 40 mpg pretty much sucks.

[jdubau55]

Is this the same car I watched the vid on where dudes put a GSXR motor or equivelent in??

[ChinoCharles]

YES!

Someone put a busa 1.3 in a Yaris. Please. That would be tits. I could even hook you up with the shop to do it! Any takers? :laugh:

[jdubau55]

The fit would be easy for sure. Thats about it.

[ChinoCharles]

http://www.mphohio.com/

This guy could sell you the motor and help you work around the drivetrain issues. C'mon, who is it gonna be?!

[jdubau55]

I would just hit up Dennis at www.dpcars.net He has put that same powertrain in at least 2 cars that I know of. A kit Westin and his built from scratch DP1. He has tons of experience with getting them running.

[Yaris Revenge]

Psst... you're on a Yaris forum. You won't get us to tell you to spring for the Smart. :tongue:


LOL! No kidding!

I really wonder what kind of fuel economy those bike motors get when their launching fortwos all over the place? For that much "oomph", I think even 30mpg would be a deal! Those things can't even make a turn without power sliding! :laugh:

~YR

[Yaris Revenge]

UPDATE:

The more I look at the Yarii, the more I like them. Hauling anything in the fortwo is pretty much out of the question, and I do tend to need that every now and then. Also, you can't argue the fact that the Yaris is sportier (and I like me some sport!). AND there will ultimately be more aftermarket parts. AND if I need to I can carry more than one extra person. AND it's still capable of excellent fuel economy...

I think the fact that I've always loved the smart's oddness has perhaps clouded my vision until now. Realistically, the fortwo really is just a toy, and I think I might need more than that in my day-to-day routine.

Of course, I'll still need to take them both for a test drive to see who wins in the end: my common sense or my addiction to the bizarre. :biggrin:

~YR

[captainzerocool]

Isn't the only current Smart Dealer in New York? Being these things are city runabouts not highway cars.

[Poorboy]

BTW there is no manual trans in a smart. They all have an auto stick feature, no clutch, like my wife's g6 GT. I don't know about you but I want a clutch and that is what ended the smart consideration. Even the cheapo model.

[acrbill]

There is a local exotic dealer that sells the for2 now. They are in the upper 20's.

I have no idea what the deal with that is.

I know that the local Budget rent-a-car will rent you a for2. $60 a day.

Neither car will serve you well in an accident. The Smart gets way better MPG. It will draw more attention if thats your thing.

Another thing you need to realize is that whatever the price ends up being the sticker will be jacked up for at least 6 months after the release.

[Yaris Revenge]

All good points.

There are practically NO dealers at the moment... UAG is currently getting that sorted out for '08.

The manual automatic transmission in the smart is one of the things I dislike the most about it, and my biggest concern regarding a test drive. I've used the "manumatic" in my sister's Kia and my wife's Hyundai Tuscon, and hate them, but I've been told that the smart's tranny is a totally different beastie. I still have my doubts, however.

Oh, stopped by the local Toyota dealer yesterday while no one was around... there's a black liftback MANUAL on their lot! Methinks I may go for a test drive today... :biggrin: Not interested in black (it's got the power options, but no side air bags or ABS, which are must-haves for me), but it'll at least give me a feel for the car.

~YR

[nsmitchell]

Holy Shit! The Cabrio is awesome!!! Closest thing to a Honda Del Sol that I've seen recently! This car looks to be very sweet. Cabrio or not! Also the SMART was designed by the SWATCH designer. You know that thing is built like a swiss watch. They have a SMART in the MOMA. I can't wait to check one out.