non starting mystery...

[tooter]

Got a mystery here, and these are the symptoms:

When the key is in the ON position, all the accessories work, except the instruments don't turn on and the led section of the dash remains blank. And when turning to START nothing happens. No cranking. No clicking. Nothing.

Removed and tested all the fuses. They're all good. Everything looks all plugged in like it should be.

Plugged in the OBD computer and turned the key to the ON position. It powers up and tries to communicate with the ECU but says it can't and says make sure key is in the ON position.

I'm stumped... :confused: So does anyone here have any suggestions on how to solve this mystery? I'm open to trying anything.

Greg

[fnkngrv]

Have you done any work with the ignition or ECM lately? Have you checked your battery terminal that they are clean and have GREAT contact? I ran into that actually at NEFR and found out that the culprit was the link in the middle of my disconnect assembly.

[tooter]

Have you done any work with the ignition or ECM lately? Have you checked your battery terminal that they are clean and have GREAT contact? I ran into that actually at NEFR and found out that the culprit was the link in the middle of my disconnect assembly.

No, I've never done any tuning so all of the wiring is completely intact with no splicing in of any aftermarket components. And the battery terminals are pristine as the car is only a year old. But thanks for the suggestions. :smile:

By the way, do you know of any interlinks which prevent turning on the ignition? Everything else works except the ON and START positions of the key switch. The ACC position works normally.

[CTScott]

I think it may be your new manifold!

I would triple check the AM2 fuse in the under-hood fuse panel.

If that is OK. Listen to the relay module below that fuse while someone else turns the key from OFF to ON and see if the IG2 Relay clicks.

[tooter]

Ok, Scott, I will. :smile:

[CTScott]

Correction: You have a 3rd gen. Still check the AM2 fuse under the hood, but the IG1 and IG2 relays are now in the junction block assembly under the driver's side of the dash.

[CTScott]

Also, do other things work or not work with the key on (like wipers, headlights, blinkers, radio, etc.)?

[tooter]

The 10amp IG2 fuse is good.
The relay does not click when the key is turned.
The relay coil terminals have continuity.

[tooter]

Also, do other things work or not work with the key on (like wipers, headlights, blinkers, radio, etc.)?

Yes. Everything else works normally.

[tooter]

Correction: You have a 3rd gen. Still check the AM2 fuse under the hood, but the IG1 and IG2 relays are now in the junction block assembly under the driver's side of the dash.

Ok. I'll check those...

One relay under the dash clicks in the ON position, another clicks in the START position.

But no instruments and no starting.

[fnkngrv]

No, I've never done any tuning so all of the wiring is completely intact with no splicing in of any aftermarket components. And the battery terminals are pristine as the car is only a year old. But thanks for the suggestions. :smile:

By the way, do you know of any interlinks which prevent turning on the ignition? Everything else works except the ON and START positions of the key switch. The ACC position works normally.

The only other that that I personally ran into a similar symptom what when the ground on the driver's side of the block had been lose sorry. :iono:

Your symptoms are very intriguing to say the least!

Best of luck...I will be following to hear the outcome.

[tooter]

Ok. I'll check the grounds.
At this point I'm trying everything. :laugh:

[tooter]

Checked the grounds and they're all intact. Does anyone else have any ideas?

[Mittelklasse]

Can you turn on your A/C blower fan in the ON position?

[CTScott]

Checked the grounds and they're all intact. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Check the 60A fusible link on the positive battery terminal.

[tooter]

Can you turn on your A/C blower fan in the ON position?

Yes, it turns on normally.

[tooter]

Check the 60A fusible link on the positive battery terminal.

Took everything apart at the positive terminal and both the main and the alternator fusible links are good. And there is power at both the alternator and the starter.

You know, it is behaving like there is something disabling the ON and START circuits from operating. And although the OBD computer powers up fine, it is not able to communicate with the ECU, so there seems to be no power going to the ECU.

Might you know if there any sort of "fail safe" disable mechanism that may have gotten triggered? I saw in the Owner's Manual there is an anti theft ignition disable security device, although my model supposedly doesn't have it because there is an empty spot where the LED indicator would be at the leading edge of the dash near the passenger side of the windshield.

I'll try any other suggestions you can think of...

[CTScott]

The cluster gets constant power from the ECU-B fuse and switched power from the MET fuse and illumination power from the PANEL1 fuse. It also gets a power feed from the HAZ fuse, as it directly drives the turn signals.

The IG2 Relay feeds the MET fuse power.

If all of those fuses are good, check the voltage on the light blue (ECU-B) and pink (MET) wires, which are right next to each other on one corner of the larger cluster connector. The ECU-B should have power all the time and MET should have it only when the ignition is on.

[tooter]

The cluster gets constant power from the ECU-B fuse and switched power from the MET fuse and illumination power from the PANEL1 fuse. It also gets a power feed from the HAZ fuse, as it directly drives the turn signals.

The IG2 Relay feeds the MET fuse power.

If all of those fuses are good, check the voltage on the light blue (ECU-B) and pink (MET) wires, which are right next to each other on one corner of the larger cluster connector. The ECU-B should have power all the time and MET should have it only when the ignition is on.

Ok... with the key switch in the ON position, there is no power to:

the MET fuse
the IGN fuse
the IG2 fuse

Here is the engine compartment fuse box layout:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7383_zps61280340.jpg

There is power to the ECU #1 fuse under the dash.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/IMG_7386_zpsfda852db.jpg

The under dash registry.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/IMG_7387_zps6e554d04.jpg

I used an AM radio to pick up powered and unpowered fuses as it "ticks" when they are removed and reinstalled. on the ones that didn't tick, I confirmed no power with a multimeter.

[tooter]

I tried a test. Removed the MET fuse, stuck a spade terminal in the socket and jumped it to the positive battery terminal. The dash gauges turned on. Put everything back together and it's still the same no go...

[CTScott]

I tried a test. Removed the MET fuse, stuck a spade terminal in the socket and jumped it to the positive battery terminal. The dash gauges turned on. Put everything back together and it's still the same no go...

OK.

Power flows to the MET fuse as follows:

1. 80A MAIN fuse on positive battery terminal
2. 50A R/I Fuse
3. Contact of IG2 Relay


IG2 relay coil power flows as follows:
1. 80A MAIN fuse on positive battery terminal
2. AM2 Fuse
3. Power enters ignition switch connector on white wire (AM2)
4. Pink wire on Ignition switch connector (IG2) feeds the coil


I missed the R/I fuse when I was looking before. Check him next, and if it is not him follow the two flows above.

[tooter]

Ok. I'll check the chains of command. Ok. Found the 50 amp R?I. A red single.It takes a real wiring catastrophe to blow a big fuse, so I sure hope it isn't blown.

edit: It's good. I'll go through the others tomorrow.

[CTScott]

Ok. I'll check the chains of command. Ok. Found the 50 amp R?I. A red single.It takes a real wiring catastrophe to blow a big fuse, so I sure hope it isn't blown.

It should be one of the big boys in the under-hood fuse panel. Actually it is the square red one between the 7.5A and 20A fuses on the right side of your picture above.

[tooter]

Yes. Checked the 50 amp last evening and it's good. I'll check the rest today. :thumbsup:

[tooter]

Bingo, Will. :smile:

AM2 fuse. Everything works fine now. the most likely reason is that I was defeating the clutch pedal start disable switch and I'm pretty sure that the ignition switch was in the ON position while I was doing it.

Thanks so much for taking your time to offer such a precise troubleshooting sequence. :smile:

Regards,

Greg