Spoon Rigid Collars NCP91

[Chuckie]

Check this video out. Spoon makes collars for Vitz/Yaris now. I just installed RZCrew Garage Collars on my Yaris. They make a big differrnce. Theres also another European company selling rigid collars online, (rigidcollars.com) for our cars.
http://youtu.be/zWyUD6UXfog

[catliektheif]

wow thats awesome! interesting video

[Jason@SportsCar]

Check this video out. Spoon makes collars for Vitz/Yaris now. I just installed RZCrew Garage Collars on my Yaris. They make a big differrnce. Theres also another European company selling rigid collars online, (rigidcollars.com) for our cars.
http://youtu.be/zWyUD6UXfog

Does your car still have all the stock bushings? Hard to imagine any improvement being felt, or even measured, when you have massive rubber control arm and shock bushings in place - the upper shock mount alone has about a 1/2" of play in it. There is so much flex in the OE suspension, the subframe would be the last thing I would worry about. I also don't like the idea of lifting the body by placing a spacer between it and the subframe.

Interesting in the video... When they compare the two cars the blur on the "after" cars wheels seems to make it look like it was going faster when it hit the block, making the suspension instead of the chassis take the load - it would be easy to synch the videos in post production. Also the tire on the after car seem to deflect a lot more, another indicator of increased speed or lowered tire pressure.

[cali yaris]

Why are there two threads about this?

[Chuckie]

Why are there two threads about this?

Sorry bout that. This is more about the Spoon one, so thought it was ok to open another thread.

[Chuckie]

Does your car still have all the stock bushings? Hard to imagine any improvement being felt, or even measured, when you have massive rubber control arm and shock bushings in place - the upper shock mount alone has about a 1/2" of play in it. There is so much flex in the OE suspension, the subframe would be the last thing I would worry about. I also don't like the idea of lifting the body by placing a spacer between it and the subframe.

Interesting in the video... When they compare the two cars the blur on the "after" cars wheels seems to make it look like it was going faster when it hit the block, making the suspension instead of the chassis take the load - it would be easy to synch the videos in post production. Also the tire on the after car seem to deflect a lot more, another indicator of increased speed or lowered tire pressure.

Yes im stock bushings all around still. My car is fairly new, 5k miles on it. I put the RZRCrew ones two weeks ago. Very obvious and noticeable difference even in my fairly new car. Tighter more solid feel immediately noticeable. Our roads here in the Philippines are sub par, alot of potholes and uneven surface conditions, worse than New Yor City, haha. I could really feel the difference when hitting these surfaces. I used to hear another sound other than just the rubber of the tires on the surfaces. Now, mostly all I hear is the rubber. I notice my car used to rock and wobble a bit just from these surfaces and jolts of acceleration. It doesnt do that anymore. Better handling and steering response. Prior to installation, My car was fully strutted on UR bars minus mid bar and rear upper. H&R springs on stock shocks.

[Chuckie]

It definetely feels like a more expensive car. My father has an IS 300. Collars bring it closer to that feel. In more expensive cars they dont take as many manufacturing shorcuts. Oh, and ride height is unchanged.

[tk-421]

Interesting in the video [...]. Also the tire on the after car seem to deflect a lot more, another indicator of increased speed or lowered tire pressure.

I did notice that the tire in the "after" shot looked under-inflated. I guess I'm not alone on this...

[Viperoni]

Does your car still have all the stock bushings? Hard to imagine any improvement being felt, or even measured, when you have massive rubber control arm and shock bushings in place - the upper shock mount alone has about a 1/2" of play in it. There is so much flex in the OE suspension, the subframe would be the last thing I would worry about. I also don't like the idea of lifting the body by placing a spacer between it and the subframe.

Interesting in the video... When they compare the two cars the blur on the "after" cars wheels seems to make it look like it was going faster when it hit the block, making the suspension instead of the chassis take the load - it would be easy to synch the videos in post production. Also the tire on the after car seem to deflect a lot more, another indicator of increased speed or lowered tire pressure.

QFT.

Echo's don't have this collar, but Jason's right on point - the factory suspension has way more flex than any positive effect this would ever have...

[YarisSedan]

Are you able to get these garm i went to the website they dont have shipping to us

[Chuckie]

QFT.

Echo's don't have this collar, but Jason's right on point - the factory suspension has way more flex than any positive effect this would ever have...

True, but your'e dealing with two fairly independent systems. Like stated in the video, on race cars, these areas where the bolts are that connect the body to the subframe, these parts are actually welded. Its not really the suspension its working on but rather the connection of the engine, transmission and suspension to the subframe which is a rather lose and you can say primative connection on alot of non luxury or more expensive sports cars. The effect of play in the stock suspension is independent of of the effect of rigid collars since they are separate areas in a cars makeup. Thats like saying if you add a front upper strut bar, there would be no positive effect unless a rear strut bar were added as well.

[Chuckie]

Note: I have the UR front lower 4 point stress bar. Apparently, these are four of the bolts that connect the body to the subframe. The collars go in first and strut bar slaps on after.

[Chuckie]

Are you able to get these garm i went to the website they dont have shipping to us

Hope youre able to hook up with a set. Just FYI, this site in Europe is selling the rear collars online. Price is in Brittish pounds. Although there are six more that go in the front of the car. http://www.rigidcollar.com/index.php/choose-by-vehicle-manufacturer/toyota/vitz-rs-ncp91-rear.html

Also check RZRCrewgarage.com in Singapore. They make em too for many makes and models. Allthough they dont look as high tech and great as the Spoon.

[Mittelklasse]

I have had a similar setup installed in Thailand.
They are made of aluminum, machined to replicate Spoon's.
Copper grease was also applied to prevent seizure.

I can confirm it has a noticeable effect on my Yaris.
The car feels 'heavier' -- 'more European-ish'
Front caster angles were also increased, due to change in subframe position.

I'll say it's pretty best bang for the buck mod.
I paid for just approx. US$80 here. (They have service life of 3 years, however.)

[cali yaris]

Are you able to get these garm i went to the website they dont have shipping to us

Sure, or we can make them.

[Bluevitz-rs]

That play is how caster is corrected during an alignment, as the top of the strut is fixed in place and has no adjustment.

[Chuckie]

This is how the rear collars look.

[Chuckie]

I have had a similar setup installed in Thailand.
They are made of aluminum, machined to replicate Spoon's.
Copper grease was also applied to prevent seizure.

I can confirm it has a noticeable effect on our Yaris.
The car feels 'heavier' -- 'more European-ish'
Front caster angles were also increased, due to change in subframe position.

I'll say it's pretty best bang for the buck mod.
I paid for just approx. US$80 here. (They have service life of 3 years, however.)

I felt my car heavier too right after install. Its deceiving because they weigh close to nothing. ** The Spoon ones supposedly last forever.

[Chuckie]

These ones go where the 4 point front lower strutbar hooks up. There are four of them.
Or they might be the two in the very front of the car.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Rear for what? There's no subframe in the rear of the car.

[Chuckie]

At rear, color gold

[evo165]

Bro Chuckie, do your buy your from the Europe company?

At 170+ Euro front kit, it come in 2 or 4 collars?

They are not cheap at all... hehe...

Thanks!!

[evo165]

I have had a similar setup installed in Thailand.
They are made of aluminum, machined to replicate Spoon's.
Copper grease was also applied to prevent seizure.

I can confirm it has a noticeable effect on our Yaris.
The car feels 'heavier' -- 'more European-ish'
Front caster angles were also increased, due to change in subframe position.

I'll say it's pretty best bang for the buck mod.
I paid for just approx. US$80 here. (They have service life of 3 years, however.)

Bro, the one you buy from in Thailand. Do they have online shop to ship worldwide? :biggrin:

[Chuckie]

Bro Chuckie, do your buy your from the Europe company?

At 170+ Euro front kit, it come in 2 or 4 collars?

They are not cheap at all... hehe...

Thanks!!

I got mine here in the P.I from someone thst carries the RZCrewGarage set, a company out of Singapore. 8 pieces. 80$ a set.

[evo165]

I got mine here in the P.I from someone thst carries the RZCrewGarage set, a company out of Singapore. 8 pieces. 80$ a set.

Your link of the RZ Crew Garage is not working... My location is in Singapore :biggrin:

[evo165]

Got it!! :) complete set of 8. Awaiting for the arrival in the next few days...

From my understanding the front is 4 and rear is 2. Where will the balance of 2 go to?

[japle]

How much is it including the shipping to malaysia?

[evo165]

You can email him directly at RZ Crew Garage. ;) It cost 150S$ for a set of 8.

[Chuckie]

Got it!! :) complete set of 8. Awaiting for the arrival in the next few days...

From my understanding the front is 4 and rear is 2. Where will the balance of 2 go to?

2 at the very front, 4 where the 4 point front lower strutbar connects and two right by the rear wheels

[Chuckie]

Your link of the RZ Crew Garage is not working... My location is in Singapore :biggrin:

Youre from Singapore and havnt heard of RZCrew? Hmm, must be a new outfit huh??

[evo165]

Youre from Singapore and havnt heard of RZCrew? Hmm, must be a new outfit huh??

Either RZ Chew are not that popular yet in local or I am always hiding in the "mountain" :biggrin:

The 2 at the very front meaning the bolt that hold the front lower arm?

[Chuckie]

Either RZ Chew are not that popular yet in local or I am always hiding in the "mountain" :biggrin:

The 2 at the very front meaning the bolt that hold the front lower arm?

I dont know 100%. Probably. Ask the guys over at the store. Theyre just on local call away..:)

[aeipee13]

Just wanted to dig up this old thread because the Spoon Rigid Collars are the truth. Almost feels like the car has been spot welded. Everything works better suspension-wise and you can really feel it during turns and when you hit an unexpected bump.

I recently added whiteline control arm bushings and had to remove one of the collars but the hardware provided with the whiteline bushings are nearly the same idea. Whiteline tightens up the play between the control arm bushing, bolt, and crossmember using the bushing itself and washers on the top and bottom that have a little lip serving as a "collar" between the bolt hole and the bolt.

I know people call bullshit but think about suspension geometry and all the vibrations and wiggling that goes on. If you still don't understand drive someone's yaris with collars and be amazed.

[tmontague]

Just wanted to dig up this old thread because the Spoon Rigid Collars are the truth. Almost feels like the car has been spot welded. Everything works better suspension-wise and you can really feel it during turns and when you hit an unexpected bump.

I recently added whiteline control arm bushings and had to remove one of the collars but the hardware provided with the whiteline bushings are nearly the same idea. Whiteline tightens up the play between the control arm bushing, bolt, and crossmember using the bushing itself and washers on the top and bottom that have a little lip serving as a "collar" between the bolt hole and the bolt.

I know people call bullshit but think about suspension geometry and all the vibrations and wiggling that goes on. If you still don't understand drive someone's yaris with collars and be amazed.

Where did you order these from?

[aeipee13]

Where did you order these from?

I got mine from RHDjapan but there are plenty on options online. RHDJapan is a grey market importer and they are 100% legit.

Of course you pay for products like this and people will say whatever they want about price but rigid collars are worth it. I've been using mine for over 2 years now and have no issue other than being faster in turns.

I am firm believer if an upgrade makes the driver more confident and happier behind the wheel, F@*k whatever anyone else thinks.

[tmontague]

I ordered a set of Spoon collar from RHDJapan, should have them within a couple weeks. I already have Whiteline control arm bushings and TRD rear bushing collars so it will be interesting to see what I notice

[aeipee13]

Nice! I think the way the car handles unexpected bumps is easiest to call out but you'll notice everything they do over time.

I got my Whiteline bushings after the collars so I'm interested to hear what you feel in comparison. When I installed the whiteline bushings the car felt lifted a bit more than with the spoon collars alone, most likely because the old bushings were well mushed and the new bushings just set everything back into proper place. If you enjoyed the whiteline bushing upgrade the collars will make you happy for sure!

Get Cusco top mounts too, if you don't already have them.

[tmontague]

Nice! I think the way the car handles unexpected bumps is easiest to call out but you'll notice everything they do over time.

I got my Whiteline bushings after the collars so I'm interested to hear what you feel in comparison. When I installed the whiteline bushings the car felt lifted a bit more than with the spoon collars alone, most likely because the old bushings were well mushed and the new bushings just set everything back into proper place. If you enjoyed the whiteline bushing upgrade the collars will make you happy for sure!

Get Cusco top mounts too, if you don't already have them.

I have trd top mounts which are a stiffer rubber and so far the car handles very tight on the track with slicks, down the road I'll look into the cusco top mounts but for now I'm happy with the suspension set up - 7kf and 9kr spring rates currently

[tmontague]

Got my Spoon collars in the mail the other day and installed them today. Not too impressed with them for a few reasons. The collars themselves seem fine however the instructions are all in Japanese. They offer a page with poorly written English on them but it just says some common sense safety info, not any useful images or instructions like the japanese ones.

The diagrams are all from what I think is a Prius subframe so although similar, it has a handful of extra bolts. My box never came with any rears which I was expecting as it only stated front and I already have rear TRD collars.

The box comes with 2 collars total. 1 you use on each side for the front most mounting point of the subframe. And 2 you use on each side of the middle mounting point on the subframe that goes through the control arm bushing. They send an extra 2 as it appears based on the diagram that depending on your chassis you use one or the other.

So for a stupid high price you essentially get collars for only 2 out of the 3 mounting point on our Yaris subframe. The rear mounting point would be the simplest of all the point to manufacture one collar for. Since I have Whiteline collars that came with my bushings, I essentially can only use the front most collar. I ended up using one of the control arms bushings for the rear most mounting point on the subframe. It isn't snug enough so won't do much but it is better than the original large hole on the subframe and helps fill the gap.

All in all, over priced, poorly explained product that doesn't even cover all the points you need. Not sure what other people on this thread were posting about but the product that I purchased from RHD Japan was the same thing but it seems no one else had this issue. Pics from others of the subframe would be appreciated to figure out what exactly they purchased and installed

[aeipee13]

Too bad you're not happy with them. Most gray market items will come with little to no english instructions. Also, the front and rear collars are separate. I only have the front. In the rear I have the trd hardened shock bushings and no collars on the lower trailing arm/axel.

[saikouguy]

For anyone else wanting to install/needs reference material in installing these.

https://www.rigidcollar.jp/blog/2014/12/05/%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BF%e3%80%80%E3%83%95%E3%8 3%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2% E3%81%AE%E6%A4%9C%E8%A8%BC/

[tmontague]

For anyone else wanting to install/needs reference material in installing these.

https://www.rigidcollar.jp/blog/2014/12/05/%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BF%e3%80%80%E3%83%95%E3%8 3%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2% E3%81%AE%E6%A4%9C%E8%A8%BC/

good info, thanks!

[heeroyuy01195]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't this eliminate the ability to adjust caster?

[saikouguy]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't this eliminate the ability to adjust caster?I don't see how this would affect the adjustment of caster as this locks the subframe to the chassis.

Caster isn't really adjustable anyways as it's dictated by the bushing on the rear of the front lower control arm. You adjust caster by installing aftermarket offset caster bushings instead.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[heeroyuy01195]

With the control arms being bolted to the subframe and the shocks to the chassis, if you slide the subframe forward you can gain a little positive castor as this move the bottom of the shock forward. Do the opposite and you have some negative castor. Might be only a few millimeters of play here but those few millimeters make a big difference relative to the system. Granted, I don't see your average everyday person doing this but it's there.

[saikouguy]

With the control arms being bolted to the subframe and the shocks to the chassis, if you slide the subframe forward you can gain a little positive castor as this move the bottom of the shock forward. Do the opposite and you have some negative castor. Might be only a few millimeters of play here but those few millimeters make a big difference relative to the system. Granted, I don't see your average everyday person doing this but it's there.A more reliable way for caster adjustment would be either the offset bushings or custom caster top plates.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Barryhuh]

Merry Xmas guys,

I have just received my Spoon Fron Subframe Collars and planned on doing the installation in the next days. The kits come with instruction but it is in Jampanese and I am not so good at that.

I did some rearchs on the web but could not find anything details the process. So I was wondering if anyone here had done one before and how difficult is the whole process? Do I need to remove anythinge.g. overpipe and etc else rather than the Subframe bolts? How many trolls jacks do I need to hold the front Subframe?

Any info will be really appreciated...

Thanks

[saikouguy]

Take a look at this. https://www.rigidcollar.jp/blog/2014/12/05/%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BF%e3%80%80%E3%83%95%E3%8 3%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2% E3%81%AE%E6%A4%9C%E8%A8%BC/

You shouldn't really have to unbolt anything unless it you have a brace.

Best way to install it is to jack the car up on some stands and then use the jack to brace & lower the subframe abit as you back out the 4 subframe bolts far enough to slip in the collars when you remove 1 of the 4 bolts then put the bolt back in after you've installed it.

You may need a pry bar to pry the subframe for that extra clearance as it still has the rear engine mount which could cause the subframe not to lower far enough for you to slip the collar in.