Synthetic Oil

[Kaotic Lazagna]

my Yaris has 6500-6600 miles on it, and i'm up for my second oil change. my questions are: 1. is it safe to switch to synthetic, and i mean, the real/full syn. like Royal Purple. and 2. is it worth it to use syn. oil in our Yarii?

i'll be changing my oil on Friday, so i'm asking now. heh. TIA.

p.s. if it's not worth it, i'll stick to NAPA oil (10W-40) and NAPA oil filters...but if it's worth it, what oil filter should i get, K&N?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

back to studying for my test tomorrow, i'll check back in a few hours...

[churp]

Doesn't Toyota specify 5-30.....not 10-40 :thumbdown:


I switched to synthetic at 1,600...opinions vary all over the place!

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i have to look at my receipts. what ever weight the manual says, that's what i bought. my bad...

but yeah, any benefits in using syn. in a Yaris?

[joey1320]

this is one of those neverending questions...
any reader of your thread will give you a different answer; so with that said this is my 2 cents.

if you are just driving the car normally i'll stick with regular oil(whatever the manual says) and use toyota's oil filter and change at 3k miles/3months.

if you plan on doing autox or beat your car then i'll switch to full synt. and depending on how hard you drive the car, change it accordingly.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

just everyday use for me...i never even came close to redlining my Yaris yet.

[churp]

:iono: sort of like buying Dr Thunder or Dr Pepper at Walmart....both will wet your whistle... both meet all the requirements....don't know if one will kill you quicker than the other!

Personally I buy Dr Thunder, but for Black Betty it's synthetic...she's my gal.

[barryware]

I switched to synthetic at my 1st oil change (3500 Miles). I used the Mobile One "extended Service" which is supposed to be fully synthetic.

Next oil change, I think I will either use the cheaper Mobile One or go back to regular oil.

I can't get past the thought of changing my oil often so it is just costing me money for the more expensive oil.

I have always changed my oil every 2500 miles. If it went to 3000, that was OK. Kinda depended what the mileage was when the weekend hit.

The oil I have in the car now is supposed to be good for 18000 miles (says so on the bottle :smile: ). I have 4000 miles on the oil give or take and I feel the need to change it.

Maybe I need therapy :biggrin:

[ChinoCharles]

It costs all of $30 for 4 quarts of top-quality synthetic and a filter.

WHY THE HELL NOT? It can only help.

[tds12]

Went to Mobile 1 at 2000 miles. Change the oil every 5000 miles and the filter every 2500. If you change the oil yourself it keeps the cost down. I feel better about stretching the change to 5000 miles when I know there is syn oil in the car.

[Pavel Olavich]

After my engine broke in, and after 3,000 miles I changed the oil using Mobile1 full-synthetic 5W30, with the EP type (Extended Performance). This oil is rated for 15,000 miles, but I'll change it again at 10,000 miles.

When running full synthetic, and especially the EP type, no need to change before 10,000 miles, and to do so is just wasting time and money.

Just because one never redlines the Yaris, or drives it hard is no reason to think Synthetic will not give great benefits.

The benefits of running full synthetic EP are:

(1) Less Frequent oil changes.
(2) Better engine protection.
(3) Longer engine life.
(4) Saves money.
(5) Better gas milage.

These days the changing every 3,000 is no longer applicable, and to change the oil before 5,000 or 7,500 miles is foolish and a waste of money, giving a false sense of security.

Another mistake people make is to judge the effectiveness of their oil by the color...this is very misleading and will lead to too frequent changes, and a waste of money. So get past the dark color of your oil, and trust it to last 7,500, or 10,000 miles.

For me, I change the oil filter and oil every 10,000 miles but I use Mobile1 Full Synthetic EP (Extended Performance) which is good for 15,000 (so it says on the label).

Of course if one drives in very demanding situations, then one needs to change the oil more frequently, so your situation must come into the equation. I will add that if one's Yaris is not garaged at night, water condensation can show up in the crank case, making the oil vulnerable to "geling" or sledge, so if your car is not garaged at night, then this might necessitate more frequent oil changes.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I switched to synthetic at my 1st oil change (3500 Miles). I used the Mobile One "extended Service" which is supposed to be fully synthetic.

Next oil change, I think I will either use the cheaper Mobile One or go back to regular oil.

I can't get past the thought of changing my oil often so it is just costing me money for the more expensive oil.

I have always changed my oil every 2500 miles. If it went to 3000, that was OK. Kinda depended what the mileage was when the weekend hit.

The oil I have in the car now is supposed to be good for 18000 miles (says so on the bottle :smile: ). I have 4000 miles on the oil give or take and I feel the need to change it.

Maybe I need therapy :biggrin:

yeah, i'm like that too. i feel the need to change my oil when 3000 hits.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

It costs all of $30 for 4 quarts of top-quality synthetic and a filter.

WHY THE HELL NOT? It can only help.

yeah, i was thinking that too...spend a little more now, and save a lot later? right?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Went to Mobile 1 at 2000 miles. Change the oil every 5000 miles and the filter every 2500. If you change the oil yourself it keeps the cost down. I feel better about stretching the change to 5000 miles when I know there is syn oil in the car.

ok, my question is, when you change the filter, but not the oil, do you have to drain out the oil from the pan first? i'm thinking no since the filter is higher than the pan, and should only have a little oil in it, right? i've always changed my filters with the oil, that's why i'm asking.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

After my engine broke in, and after 3,000 miles I changed the oil using Mobile1 full-synthetic 5W30, with the EP type (Extended Performance). This oil is rated for 15,000 miles, but I'll change it again at 10,000 miles.

When running full synthetic, and especially the EP type, no need to change before 10,000 miles, and to do so is just wasting time and money.

Just because one never redlines the Yaris, or drives it hard is no reason to think Synthetic will not give great benefits.

The benefits of running full synthetic EP are:

(1) Less Frequent oil changes.
(2) Better engine protection.
(3) Longer engine life.
(4) Saves money.
(5) Better gas milage.

These days the changing every 3,000 is no longer applicable, and to change the oil before 5,000 or 7,500 miles is foolish and a waste of money, giving a false sense of security.

Another mistake people make is to judge the effectiveness of their oil by the color...this is very misleading and will lead to too frequent changes, and a waste of money. So get past the dark color of your oil, and trust it to last 7,500, or 10,000 miles.

For me, I change the oil filter and oil every 10,000 miles but I use Mobile1 Full Synthetic EP (Extended Performance) which is good for 15,000 (so it says on the label).

Of course if one drives in very demanding situations, then one needs to change the oil more frequently, so your situation must come into the equation. I will add that if one's Yaris is not garaged at night, water condensation can show up in the crank case, making the oil vulnerable to "geling" or sledge, so if your car is not garaged at night, then this might necessitate more frequent oil changes.

yeah, i thought/heard that synthetic oil adds mpg. oh, and my Yaris will soon be back in the garage after i hack away at a couple of couches and mattresses that's taking up space in my garage!

[Pavel Olavich]

ok, my question is, when you change the filter, but not the oil, do you have to drain out the oil from the pan first? i'm thinking no since the filter is higher than the pan, and should only have a little oil in it, right? i've always changed my filters with the oil, that's why i'm asking.

Don't do this....it will give you NO benefit, and is a hassle....just change the filter only during oil changes....save your $$$.

[07typeS]

Im like most and cant get over the fact that you shouldnt have to change the oil for 10,000 miles..............the dealer recommends 5,000 miles and even that is iffy to me..... I dont drive my car super hard but I drive it enough that I change the oil at 2500 miles and then let the dealer do it at 5,000 miles(covered under my maintenance package).....every 2500 I just change the oil and not the filter, 2.00 a quart for oil, 3 or 4 bottles (cant remember)...totally worth it in my mind..........

whoever said this is a never-ending debate is right. Some people just need the peace of mind knowing its changed everything 3,000 miles..

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Don't do this....it will give you NO benefit, and is a hassle....just change the filter only during oil changes....save your $$$.

isn't it bad to keep your filter for that long? (if it's synthetic)

[ChinoCharles]

So I did a quick half-fill yesterday to see what my mileage was now that my car is nice and used to the new synthetic.

36.2 MPG. That is 3 MPG better than I've ever been able to achieve. That was in all sorts of weather,too... we went from 77 degrees to below freezing and snowing in 24 hours. 75% city, 25% highway.

I'm sold on synthetic oil improving mileage so far. Give it a few thousand miles.

[Pavel Olavich]

isn't it bad to keep your filter for that long? (if it's synthetic)

Nope, not bad at all. Remember, our little engines don't stress out much...I rarely tach over 3,500, and even then it's a few times. Plus the load on the engine is not much...I drive for high MPG, so I press the gas pedel the least as possible.

[Astroman]

I too noticed a big difference in MPG after switching to synthetic (5w-30, supertech full synthetic). Then again, I had the dealer do my 1st oil change (special was $8.99 for oil & filter) and they put in, for some reason, 10w-30 during winter.... no idea why as putting thicker oil in during winter would help ANYTHING. But after switching to the full synthetic I noticed a power increase, and about a 7-10% increase in MPG, which is close to what chino achieved. On my next oil change I will be using amsoil and changing that every 6 months along with a TRD oil filter. One prior post I read way back the user said he would go to wal-mart every 5,000 miles, pick up a filter and oil, copy the receipt, return the goods, and clip a copy of the receipt in the maintenance log, to keep toyota's warranty people happy, and it worked. I have been using only full synthetic in all my vehicles since 2001 (except my $80 '77 corolla wagon) and have been happy with the results ever since. No needed engine work, less fuel used. In my '87 Chevy Astro van I switched it to synthetic at 80k and only ran it that way until I sold it with about 140k on the odometer. Every mechanic who I took the van too said my engine was in the best condition they had seen for that mileage, and that I would easily get another 100k out of the motor before any real repairs would be needed. I also run full synthetic 2-stroke oil in my Yamaha Zuma scooter due to the performance (lol) parts installed and I should average at least an extra 1,000 miles out of the motor, which is quite a bit for that type of ride. There's my two cents. I know the internet is flooded with every argument imaginable. If I was leasing I would probably not have bothered with synthetic. But since I bought my yaris and never plan on selling, I want the motor to be in great shape for many years to come. :smoking:

[Kaotic Lazagna]

So I did a quick half-fill yesterday to see what my mileage was now that my car is nice and used to the new synthetic.

36.2 MPG. That is 3 MPG better than I've ever been able to achieve. That was in all sorts of weather,too... we went from 77 degrees to below freezing and snowing in 24 hours. 75% city, 25% highway.

I'm sold on synthetic oil improving mileage so far. Give it a few thousand miles.

okay, i think i'm going with synthetic from now on...:biggrin:

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Nope, not bad at all. Remember, our little engines don't stress out much...I rarely tach over 3,500, and even then it's a few times. Plus the load on the engine is not much...I drive for high MPG, so I press the gas pedel the least as possible.

exactly how i drive.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I too noticed a big difference in MPG after switching to synthetic (5w-30, supertech full synthetic). Then again, I had the dealer do my 1st oil change (special was $8.99 for oil & filter) and they put in, for some reason, 10w-30 during winter.... no idea why as putting thicker oil in during winter would help ANYTHING. But after switching to the full synthetic I noticed a power increase, and about a 7-10% increase in MPG, which is close to what chino achieved. On my next oil change I will be using amsoil and changing that every 6 months along with a TRD oil filter. One prior post I read way back the user said he would go to wal-mart every 5,000 miles, pick up a filter and oil, copy the receipt, return the goods, and clip a copy of the receipt in the maintenance log, to keep toyota's warranty people happy, and it worked. I have been using only full synthetic in all my vehicles since 2001 (except my $80 '77 corolla wagon) and have been happy with the results ever since. No needed engine work, less fuel used. In my '87 Chevy Astro van I switched it to synthetic at 80k and only ran it that way until I sold it with about 140k on the odometer. Every mechanic who I took the van too said my engine was in the best condition they had seen for that mileage, and that I would easily get another 100k out of the motor before any real repairs would be needed. I also run full synthetic 2-stroke oil in my Yamaha Zuma scooter due to the performance (lol) parts installed and I should average at least an extra 1,000 miles out of the motor, which is quite a bit for that type of ride. There's my two cents. I know the internet is flooded with every argument imaginable. If I was leasing I would probably not have bothered with synthetic. But since I bought my yaris and never plan on selling, I want the motor to be in great shape for many years to come. :smoking:

i, too, am planning on keeping my Yaris for quite some time. since you mentioned that about your Astro Van, there's my second push for synthetic.

[ChinoCharles]

okay, i think i'm going with synthetic from now on...:biggrin:

For the record, Royal Purple 5W30.

[Astroman]

From what I've read Royal Purple has had quality control issues, but it is a Type IV oil, better than castrol or mobile 1 which are type III (not truly "synthetic:. I use Royal Purple in my scooter and it made a huge difference.

You can order Amsoil online or I can put you in touch with my Amsoil guy and either he can ship it to you or know of someone or another place to order Amsoil from. Redline is also An excellent lubricant. Royal purple is decent but has had quality control issues in the past that I have seen first had with lab test results. Things like high copper levels, water and even grades being off. I would stick with Amsoil or Redline.
The rest like Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, Motul, Qstate, pennzoil synthetics etc are all just highly refined crude/mineral based oil. IMO not worth the prices they charge

[Pavel Olavich]

For the record, Royal Purple 5W30.

Royal Purple may well be a great brand, however I like Mobile1 EP for it's 15,000 mile claim...not that I go that far between changes; 10,000 is the limit for me.

[Black Yaris]

I still change every 5000 no matter what oil I got.... and I am running 0w-20 mobile 1 synthetic.... I may switch back to amsoil.... or try royal purple, since Chino gave it a go

[Go4th]

From all my research I feel that AMSOil is the best. It took me about 3 months to read about all I could find about oil's and make my decision.

When I started I did not care about the type or brand.
Synthetics or regular oils made no difference I just wanted the best.

I truly felt that Mobil would turn out to be the best but that was not the case.
I had never even heard of AMSOil really or Royal Purple or even Redline.
Months ago when threads popped up about this subject I posted some sites that were the most beneficial to me on my findings and decision making.

Changing oil does not bother me and in my mind while researching I would change it as often as I feel necessary based on my driving, oil color, if I felt it needed it, what the oil company recommended, etc... as long as I have the best oil made.

I still will do that and cost don’t matter to me when I know that I am putting the best in there and it gives me a peace of mind about it and I am taking care of my engine.

The order I would buy based on my research would be
AMSOil
Red Line
Mobil fully synthetic

Oil filters study I also checked into at the same time and the order I would buy would be
The new (Ea filters by AMSOil) AMSoil filter EaO09
Wix 51394
Baldwin B-33
Toyota

I feel that since the synthetic oil last 3-5 normal oil changes, gauging it on regular oil, not synthetics, and every 5000 mile rule would be 15000-25000 miles per oil change interval for sythetics, depending on your personal driving style and what makes you comfortable.

Changing the filter every 5,000 miles would keep the oil clean plus it puts about 1qt (for argument sake, probably less small oil filter) of fresh oil back in there too would be good for about 2-4 times
depending on if you want to kick it up a notch and do it every 3,000 miles

(what I chose to do because I am still in that old school every 3,000 miles you change your oil and I did not like it when the service guy argued with me that it is recomended by toyota to do it every 5,000 miles not 3,000 miles)

and the 5th time 15,000 miles I will change 100%

So that’s
From 0 miles to 3000 miles then a filter and 1 qt.
Then 3001 miles to 6000 miles then a filter and 1qt
6001-9000 filter and 1qt
then 9001 miles to 12000 miles a filter and 1qt
and finally the last stretch I am taking is 12001 to 15000 then 100% new oil and filter.

I think that AMSOil says extreme conditions every 15000 miles and normal conditions 25,000 miles or 1year which ever is 1st is the recommended oil change interval. They say the same for their filter but:
Like I said I still have every 3000 miles in my head from growing up so it will take time for me to fathom waiting 25,000 miles. So I chose to give them the extreme condition interval for my car and then change that filter several times between oil changes.

I am changing it this way because it gives me a peace of mind. As I continue, I guess the oil texture, color, and other factors may aid me in different procedures than what I listed above but until then that is my decision.

This is all based on how I feel about what I read, my old school ways that I cannot let go (yet), and what gives me a peace of mind until I see what they say is true with my own eyes.

[ChinoCharles]

From what I've read Royal Purple has had quality control issues, but it is a Type IV oil, better than castrol or mobile 1 which are type III (not truly "synthetic:. I use Royal Purple in my scooter and it made a huge difference.

Honestly, I've read about "quality" issues with just about every single product maybe ever invented. There is always someone knocking something. Take the Yaris for example... :laugh:. All I know is I use it and it works for me.

Royal Purple may well be a great brand, however I like Mobile1 EP for it's 15,000 mile claim...not that I go that far between changes; 10,000 is the limit for me.

The reason I don't go longer than 5,000 miles between changes is simply a resale issue. I am afraid that although there is no danger in going longer when using superb oil, used car buyers may be weary of buying a car that has only seen 10 oil changes in 100,000 miles. That isn't to say that logic makes any sense, I'm just saying people don't know any better. I feel bad enough not having the actual dealership sticker in my book, but I keep all receipts and keep detailed records nonetheless.

[Black Yaris]

that is why I change oil every 5k miles no matter what as well, for resale and warranty issues that may come up down the road

[Kaotic Lazagna]

For the record, Royal Purple 5W30.

that's the recommended weight, right?

[Black Yaris]

Toyota TSB says you can use 0w-20 as well

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i can't even find Amsoil anywhere here in Sac.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Toyota TSB says you can use 0w-20 as well

isn't that way too thin/light?

[ChinoCharles]

0W-20 is fine. Toyota released a TSB condoning it because they realized these cars get better mileage running oil that is akin to real maple syrup. That shit is light.

[Black Yaris]

that is what i have been running my last 2 oil changes

[Black Yaris]

many efficient cars run low viscosity oil because they can with out causing any damage to the engine, but if you notice, the only way you can get those realy low viscosities is full synthetic

[Kaotic Lazagna]

okay, couple more questions. for daily driving/carpooling, 0W-20 is fine? and two, where can i get Amsoil?

heh, i actually have a third question, so for tomorrow, should i stick to conventional motor oil until i find some Amsoil, or should i go with Royal Purple or Redline?

[ChinoCharles]

[1] In California, 0W-20 is perfectly fine. You don't deal with the weather we get here.

[2] Amsoil is a special-order type deal. I have never seen Amsoil in a store around here.

[3] Honestly, I'd go with whatever is readily available and reasonably priced, because when you get down to it there isn't two specks of difference between any of them. Go high quality and you're in there... Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 full syn... all are awesome.

[Black Yaris]

just go to something synthetic.... I went back to mobile cause Amsoil was too hard to get ahold of.... I drive everyday, alot and I am running 0w-20, yes you can run it, Toyota would not have put out a TSB if it would fuck your car up, that would be a law suit waiting to happen if they did

[Kaotic Lazagna]

[1] In California, 0W-20 is perfectly fine. You don't deal with the weather we get here.

[2] Amsoil is a special-order type deal. I have never seen Amsoil in a store around here.

[3] Honestly, I'd go with whatever is readily available and reasonably priced, because when you get down to it there isn't two specks of difference between any of them. Go high quality and you're in there... Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 full syn... all are awesome.

1. what kind of weather do you guys have out there? in Sac, it's either really HOT or really cold.
2. dang...
3. i think i'll go with Royal Purple since it's the cheapest full synthetic (i think).

[Kaotic Lazagna]

just go to something synthetic.... I went back to mobile cause Amsoil was too hard to get ahold of.... I drive everyday, alot and I am running 0w-20, yes you can run it, Toyota would not have put out a TSB if it would fuck your car up, that would be a law suit waiting to happen if they did

heh, i don't remember seeing 0W-20 anywhere, i'm going to my car and look at the booklets.

oh, and does RP have 0W-20?

[Black Yaris]

We are in Ohio... so far in the last week we have had sunshine in the 70's and yesterday and today it snowed....

[Black Yaris]

heh, i don't remember seeing 0W-20 anywhere, i'm going to my car and look at the booklets.

oh, and does RP have 0W-20?

It will not state this any where in your book
It is a Toyota TSB, TSB= Techical Service Buliten... basicly a message they put out to shops

[Kaotic Lazagna]

owner's manual says on pg. 259 and 283, 5W-30 is the recommended...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

We are in Ohio... so far in the last week we have had sunshine in the 70's and yesterday and today it snowed....

heh, weird weather...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

It will not state this any where in your book
It is a Toyota TSB, TSB= Techical Service Buliten... basicly a message they put out to shops

oh, heh, scratch my other post about the manual...

[Black Yaris]

owner's manual says on pg. 259 and 283, 5W-30 is the recommended...

It's your car you can do what you want... if you do not believe us just go to your local Toyota dealer and ask them to pull up ant TSB's on the 1NZ engine and POOF it will say everything Chino and I have been trying to tell you for the last hour or so

[Black Yaris]

heh, weird weather...

Yeah... That is Ohio for ya... Sunbathing and Snowskiing all in the same week

[Kaotic Lazagna]

It's your car you can do what you want... if you do not believe us just go to your local Toyota dealer and ask them to pull up ant TSB's on the 1NZ engine and POOF it will say everything Chino and I have been trying to tell you for the last hour or so

no, don't get me wrong, i don't not believe you guys. i didn't know what TSB stood for. i thought it meant Toyota Service Booklet. lol...that's why i ran down to my car and checked the booklets.

ok, i just have to find out if RP makes a 0W-20 weight.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Yeah... That is Ohio for ya... Sunbathing and Snowskiing all in the same week

heh, prefer snowboarding, but i just need to get a whole lot better at it.

[Black Yaris]

the TSB suggest 0w-20 or 5w-20, 5w-20 is more common

[Go4th]

it dont say 0w-20 is ok but put 5w30 back in asap?

thats what mine says.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

it dont say 0w-20 is ok but put 5w30 back in asap?

thats what mine says.

yeah, but Black Yaris said that it doesn't say it anywhere, but in the TSB at the shops.

[Black Yaris]

it dont say 0w-20 is ok but put 5w30 back in asap?

thats what mine says.

Been runnin 0w-20 like the Toyota TSB said in my car for the last 2 oil changes, getting better fuel econ

[Black Yaris]

if you realy want me to I will find and post the offical Toyota TSB if ya'll do not believe me

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i believe you, but i want to see the TSB. i've never heard about it before, and like i said, i thought it stood for Toyota Service Booklet.

don't think anyone here's doubting you though.

[Go4th]

i was guessing from when i purchased the car 6 months ago what i read.

it says 10w-30 may be used however it should be replaced with 5w-30 at next oil change.

i thought it was 0w-20 but it is 10w-30 that could be used.


copy and paste what you found black yaris

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i was guessing from when i purchased the car 6 months ago what i read.

it says 10w-30 may be used however it should be replaced with 5w-30 at next oil change.

i thought it was 0w-20 but it is 10w-30 that could be used.


copy and paste what you found black yaris

heh, yeah, that's what i saw too. but yeah, if RP makes a weight in 0W-20, i'm buying it.

[Pavel Olavich]

heh, yeah, that's what i saw too. but yeah, if RP makes a weight in 0W-20, i'm buying it.

Do some more internet homework/research....you will find that RP is not the best synthetic on the market...there are more better like Mobile1 and especially Amsoil...still, RP is better then any mineral....

[Pavel Olavich]

Toyota TSB says you can use 0w-20 as well

But what if one lives in 100 degree summer weather?

[Black Yaris]

But what if one lives in 100 degree summer weather?

It does not state.... A Prius also takes 5w-20 or 0w-20 synthetic oil from the factory, even states it in the manual
so why would it matter where you live, and what temp it gets?
One of the whole reasons of switching to synthetic oil is that it does not break down as fast, heat being one of those major factors.

[Black Yaris]

Do some more internet homework/research....you will find that RP is not the best synthetic on the market...there are more better like Mobile1 and especially Amsoil...still, RP is better then any mineral....

Mobile1 class III Synth
RP class IV Synth
Amsoil class IV Synth

in your words, as stated above"... RP is not the best synthetic on the market... ...there are more better like moble1..."

:smoking: Hey Pavel put that doober down man, it is messin with your head

[Kaotic Lazagna]

well, i ended up buying Mobile 1 full syn. 5W-20. RP doesn't have a 0W-20 and the store manager said to get Mobile one instead of RP. they didn't have 0W-20 in stock for the Mobile 1, so i ended up getting 4 quarts of 5W-20. i bought a Napa Gold Oil filter because the SM said it's the same as Wix.

i read all of the replies here when i get back. i have to pick up my laptop now...

[Black Yaris]

you will see a pretty good differance once you switch, you will be happy that you did

[Kaotic Lazagna]

okay, i think the next oil change that i'll be doing is within the next 9k or 10k or sooner miles, just to let what ever remaining conventional oil out. from then on, maybe 10-15k mile intervals.

[Black Yaris]

every 5000 miles is the way to go bud

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i thought they last longer than that?

[Black Yaris]

as stated before, we recommend still changing your oil at 5000 miles for 2 reasons (1) warranty issues that may come up down the road (2) sellability to next owner ( on your schedual that would only be 6 or 7 oil changes in 100k miles, I would not buy a car if someone only changed there oil that often)

[Kaotic Lazagna]

so going with the synthetic route won't really save me much money?

[Black Yaris]

yes it will in gasoline, I mean it is your car you can do with it as you wish, we are just giving your recommendations. Or why don't you do the happy inbetween and change it every 7500 miles or so to be on the safe side?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

yeah, syn. oil increases the mpg by a few mpg, right? i'll take what i can get. but yeah, i think the next change will be the next 5000, after that, i dunno. i may not be too comfortable changing it the way i said earlier (that's why i never bothered with syn. oil before, i like to change my oil every 3000 or earlier.). if i'm not, then every 5000 miles. if i am, every 7500 miles. i just don't want to be throwing my money away with syn. but i do like it's benefits.

[Black Yaris]

5000 is the safe way to go, keeps the correct intervul for warranty purposes, and show next owner you took car of the car, and you reep the benifits if the increased MPG with the lower viscosity full synthetic oil

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i'll probably end up changing my oil every 5k, heh. but yeah, i even thought that the recommended 5k intervals were too long. i still don't get why Toyota would recommend it, but that's just me.

[Black Yaris]

most newer cars are every 5000 miles because they are more effecient, the whole 3000 miles thing is for ineffecient motors (mostly American) for times apast

[Kaotic Lazagna]

most newer cars are every 5000 miles because they are more effecient, the whole 3000 miles thing is for ineffecient motors (mostly American) for times apast

really? this is something i need to beat into my head then. so i guess i would have been throwing my money out by changing my oil every 3k.

[Black Yaris]

beat it in young one, beat it in

[Kaotic Lazagna]

beat it in young one, beat it in

will do, will do.

[ROCKLANDTOYOTA]

i did my first change at 1006 miles and went with mobil1....

[Kaotic Lazagna]

how's that been going for you? so far, i feel a smoother response and see better gas mileage.

[Lafiro]

I just changed yesterday. Mobile1. So far I have been doing 90% city driving, so I can't really say improvement just yet. Have to get back to my style of everyday driving(made trips to see car shows/cousins house, which i rarely do)

I'll post updates on how mine does on gas later; as for response/sound, its actually better, slight different I must say.

[jdubau55]

Im still unsure if I want to change to Mobil 1 at my first 5k oil change. I may wait will my second change at 10k to switch. I have just heard it is better to break the engine in on dino oil then switch to synthetic after break in.

[Black Yaris]

Im still unsure if I want to change to Mobil 1 at my first 5k oil change. I may wait will my second change at 10k to switch. I have just heard it is better to break the engine in on dino oil then switch to synthetic after break in.

That is just a myth jdubau, MANY new vehicles come with synthetic oil in them from the factory, like BMW, many Chryslers, many Mercedes, just to name a few

[jdubau55]

Good point.

[static808]

most newer cars are every 5000 miles because they are more effecient, the whole 3000 miles thing is for ineffecient motors (mostly American) for times apast

+1

this idea of every 3000 miles is still being thrown around as a marketing ploy for companies like jiffy lube. less frequent oil changes = less business for them, so they are still advertising 3000 mile oil changes for every car, regardless of what the manual says.

--B

[ChinoCharles]

My dealership "suggested" oil changes every 3,000 miles despite what the service manual says. Think about that.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

my dealer recommends 5000 miles. bah, not really going to do that tho.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

okay, just filled up on gas (using syn. now). i got 40 mpg. that's up 2 with the conventional oil. plus, i was using the A/C and driving 70-75 mph.

[Black Yaris]

+1

this idea of every 3000 miles is still being thrown around as a marketing ploy for companies like jiffy lube. less frequent oil changes = less business for them, so they are still advertising 3000 mile oil changes for every car, regardless of what the manual says.

--B

My dealership "suggested" oil changes every 3,000 miles despite what the service manual says. Think about that.

perfect examples, I do think the whole 3000 mile thing is to keep dependance on oil in general, it's like they are slingin crack

[Doug007]

Good Morning,

I joined this group just yesterday and this is my first post. I first changed my oil on my 07 S Sedan at 2,000 miles and have switched to Mobil 1 5-30 with OEM filters. I now have a filter/oil change every 5,000 miles. I commute daily and my combined mpg is 41 (my Yaris is now one year's old, 15,000 miles). Following is an interesting site I found that not only discusses oil, but other aspects of the car:

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html

[Black Yaris]

Good Morning,

I joined this group just yesterday and this is my first post. I first changed my oil on my 07 S Sedan at 2,000 miles and have switched to Mobil 1 5-30 with OEM filters. I now have a filter/oil change every 5,000 miles. I commute daily and my combined mpg is 41 (my Yaris is now one year's old, 15,000 miles). Following is an interesting site I found that not only discusses oil, but other aspects of the car:

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html

I found one thing on that site that already made me not trust it, it saaid Toyota has more sludge problems than any other, infacy it is Chrysler that has more sludge law suits,complates, problems, or what ever than anyone else

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Good Morning,

I joined this group just yesterday and this is my first post. I first changed my oil on my 07 S Sedan at 2,000 miles and have switched to Mobil 1 5-30 with OEM filters. I now have a filter/oil change every 5,000 miles. I commute daily and my combined mpg is 41 (my Yaris is now one year's old, 15,000 miles). Following is an interesting site I found that not only discusses oil, but other aspects of the car:

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html

welcome to YW. i'll take a look at that site later when i have time.

[Pavel Olavich]

as stated before, we recommend still changing your oil at 5000 miles for 2 reasons (1) warranty issues that may come up down the road (2) sellability to next owner ( on your schedual that would only be 6 or 7 oil changes in 100k miles, I would not buy a car if someone only changed there oil that often)

Wrong thinking on (2)....if one shows records showing that the original owner changed the oil every 7,500 - 10,000 miles AND the oil was a premium synthetic (Mobile1 EP or Amosoil or equivalent), it would be foolish to hold this against them and not buy the car for that reason. Changing the synthetic oil less frequently is more protection for the engine then if one changed the mineral oil more frequently.

Using synthetic means not having to change the oil as frequently. So not only does it save on gas, it also saves with oil changes that are less frequent then if mineral oil was used.

To change the synthetic oil as frequently as mineral defeats the purpose of using synthetic in the first place.

Black Yaris, put the pipe down man.... :iono:

[Pavel Olavich]

most newer cars are every 5000 miles because they are more effecient, the whole 3000 miles thing is for ineffecient motors (mostly American) for times apast

Wrong thinking again....American cars are no less precision in creation then the exports....the REAL reason for the old "every 3,000 mile change" is marketing, greed, and all about garages making more $$$.

The every 3,000 miles changing rule was dead 25+ years ago...what has kept it alive are a very crooked auto industry and oil industry.

The reason Toyota dropped their requirements recently from 7,500 to 5,000 was because of the gelling/sludge issues with their Lexus engines because there were owners that didn't garage their cars at night, causing condensation of water inside the engine, causing the oil to gel or sledge up...and NOT because the oil broke down with more then 5,000 miles of usage....it's a water thing.

But for those that garage their cars at night or live in climates that produce no water condesation in the engine over night, this issue is moot.

[Pavel Olavich]

I found one thing on that site that already made me not trust it, it saaid Toyota has more sludge problems than any other, infacy it is Chrysler that has more sludge law suits,complates, problems, or what ever than anyone else

All makes have the gelling/sledge problem....it was Lexus that has been more publicized as of late, but if you do research you'll find the same issues with nearly ALL car makes. The bottom line is that regardless of the car make, if the car is allowed to collect condensation at night, it will have a sledge/gel problem with the oil....Lexus owners are more likely to have the $$ to make noise in court....one reason why you'll not hear of this issue from Hyundai owners ;-)

[Pavel Olavich]

That is just a myth jdubau, MANY new vehicles come with synthetic oil in them from the factory, like BMW, many Chryslers, many Mercedes, just to name a few

No not a myth at all....those higher priced premium brands spend more time and money pre-conditioning their motor internals to mitigate early break-in synthetic oil usage.

OTHERWISE, for owners of other cars, one should NOT use synthetic oil before the engine is broken in, and to do so can effect engine performance down the road.

[Pavel Olavich]

It does not state.... A Prius also takes 5w-20 or 0w-20 synthetic oil from the factory, even states it in the manual
so why would it matter where you live, and what temp it gets?
One of the whole reasons of switching to synthetic oil is that it does not break down as fast, heat being one of those major factors.

Gosh you are spewing all kinds of superstition these days....the viscosity does matter for different climates....just look at nearly any owners manual...when they talk about viscosity, they do it WITH A TEMPERATURE GRAPH....THE LOWER THE OUTSIDE AMBIENT TEMP THE LOWER THE VISCOSITY TO USE.....

Why do you think that the Yaris TSB for lighter oil usage WAS NOT ISSUED FOR CALIFORNIA TOYOTA OWNERS! I was at the dealer today, and he could not find that TSB on his computer...he did find it for other parts of the USA (cooler climates) however.

[Black Yaris]

No not a myth at all....those higher priced premium brands spend more time and money pre-conditioning their motor internals to mitigate early break-in synthetic oil usage.

OTHERWISE, for owners of other cars, one should NOT use synthetic oil before the engine is broken in, and to do so can effect engine performance down the road.

Chino quote "... Shut up!" Yes it is a myth, I will bust out some resources to back that up if you would like?

[Black Yaris]

Why do you think that the Yaris TSB for lighter oil usage WAS NOT ISSUED FOR CALIFORNIA TOYOTA OWNERS! I was at the dealer today, and he could not find that TSB on his computer...he did find it for other parts of the USA (cooler climates) however.

fine, cold climate only then,... I am still running 0w20, Cali is it's own world with is own rules.. and you Pavel seem you have your own lil sub Cali bubble where things work ass backwards for some reason...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

so was buying 5W-20 a bad thing? guy from NAPA said it was fine, and that 0W is only needed in extreme cold climates.

[Black Yaris]

5w20 is fine, don't mind Pavel, he lives in his own world.... If this easies your mind at all the Prius takes 5w-20 from the factory as well, many chryslers take 0w40 in ANY CLIMATE, that includes So. Cali

[Kaotic Lazagna]

5w20 is fine, don't mind Pavel, he lives in his own world.... If this easies your mind at all the Prius takes 5w-20 from the factory as well, many chryslers take 0w40 in ANY CLIMATE, that includes So. Cali

thank you, that does ease my mind a bit.

[static808]

5w20 is fine, don't mind Pavel, he lives in his own world.... If this easies your mind at all the Prius takes 5w-20 from the factory as well, many chryslers take 0w40 in ANY CLIMATE, that includes So. Cali

+1

with regards to the oil grade, simply put, the lower the first number, the lower the outside temp can be for starting your car. it just means it can be freezing outside and your oil is still doing its job. the second number is the trickier one. i know that all small hondas (fits, civic, etc) can take in 20 viscosity oil, for better fuel efficiency (lower friction coeffecient in the engine). your oil will do just fine. it wont ruin your engine and you'll probably get better mpg because of the viscosity level. i havent seen any tsb regarding oil 5w or 0w-20 oil yet, but im sure if people here say it exists, then it DOES...

--B

[Kaotic Lazagna]

yup, getting better gas mileage with the 5W-20 synthetic oil.

[nsmitchell]

yup, getting better gas mileage with the 5W-20 synthetic oil.
I did some research on 5W-20 and 0W-20 and found that it will give better mileage, but may cause more engine wear over time compared with using 5W-30 or 0W-30. This was all discussed in a thread about the Toyota 5W-20 TSB. This is due to the size of the suspended particles staying the same but the film thickness is decreased. I'm sticking with 0W-30 and Napa Gold filters. Maybe even a mixture of the two weights. hmmm....

[static808]

I did some research on 5W-20 and 0W-20 and found that it will give better mileage, but may cause more engine wear over time compared with using 5W-30 or 0W-30. This was all discussed in a thread about the Toyota 5W-20 TSB. This is due to the size of the suspended particles staying the same but the film thickness is decreased. I'm sticking with 0W-30 and Napa Gold filters. Maybe even a mixture of the two weights. hmmm....

good info, i havent heard about that or done much research about the 20 weights. time to start reading up again...

--B

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hmmm, now you have me worried, but then again, Black Yaris said that the Prius comes with that weight and viscosity oil.

[BailOut]

hmmm, now you have me worried, but then again, Black Yaris said that the Prius comes with that weight and viscosity oil.

Never confuse the engine in the Yaris with the one in the Prius. Even though they have the same designation (1NZ-FE) there are 2 major differences between them:

1) The Prius' ECU runs the engine in an Atkins cycle which involves a longer spark at a lower temperature (for ionization) and requires less fuel as it burns more thoroughly but at a lower RPM/torque level. The Yaris' ECU runs the engine in a typical Otto configuration which involves a short and hot spark at the top of the compression stroke. This means the Yaris' engine runs at higher RPM and hotter.

2) The Prius' engine is almost never in a direct wheel feed scenario. The engine feeds to the HSD and the battery (which in turn runs the electric motor), and the HSD plays a hardcore game of matching inputs from both the engine and motor to produce torque in the CVT. The CVT in turn plays a hardcore game of balancing torque input and output to produce movement. These systems are a far cry from the Yaris' direct feed to either a transmission (MT) or torque converter (AT) which immediately convert torque to wheel drive.


The point of all of this is that the Prius' engine only receives about 1/3 the beating that the Yaris' does. As such you can get away with a lighter oil in the Prius than you can in the Yaris.

As with most other things sticking to the manufacturer's recommendations is best, and Toyota says 5W-30 for the Yaris.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Never confuse the engine in the Yaris with the one in the Prius. Even though they have the same designation (1NZ-FE) there are 2 major differences between them:

1) The Prius' ECU runs the engine in an Atkins cycle which involves a longer spark at a lower temperature (for ionization) and requires less fuel as it burns more thoroughly but at a lower RPM/torque level. The Yaris' ECU runs the engine in a typical Otto configuration which involves a short and hot spark at the top of the compression stroke. This means the Yaris' engine runs at higher RPM and hotter.

2) The Prius' engine is almost never in a direct wheel feed scenario. The engine feeds to the HSD and the battery (which in turn runs the electric motor), and the HSD plays a hardcore game of matching inputs from both the engine and motor to produce torque in the CVT. The CVT in turn plays a hardcore game of balancing torque input and output to produce movement. These systems are a far cry from the Yaris' direct feed to either a transmission (MT) or torque converter (AT) which immediately convert torque to wheel drive.


The point of all of this is that the Prius' engine only receives about 1/3 the beating that the Yaris' does. As such you can get away with a lighter oil in the Prius than you can in the Yaris.

As with most other things sticking to the manufacturer's recommendations is best, and Toyota says 5W-30 for the Yaris.



what about the TSB's that were mentioned earlier?

[BailOut]

I'm not saying that TSB doesn't exist by any means but no one ever provided the text of it or even the reference number of it, and I can't find anything on it myself. Without it we have no idea what the reasoning was, when the option applies, if it's valid for all regions and temperature patterns, etc.

As such sticking with 5W-30 is a safe bet and covers a huge temperature range. This is important to me because between where I live and work there is a 4,500ft elevation difference. In the Winter my car can experience temperatures as low as 14F with a wind chill of -20F and in the Summer it can experience temperatures as high as 100F. Because this is a high desert just our night and day delta can be 40F+ (i.e. 49F at night and 89F during the day), and the delta between my home and work can be as much as 30F over a 40 minute commute.

Besides, just switching to synthetic vs. standard oil will net you the most MPG gain. You won't see as much performance or MPG difference between different synthetics like 5W-30, 0W-20 and 5W-20.


Edit: Additionally, the person that was most adamant about that TSB was also the most adamant about a 5,000 mile drain interval. This shows an utter lack of eduction concerning modern synthetics which are commonly good for 7,500 miles, with some going as far as 15,000. This makes any information on this subject from that person suspect.

[churp]

Don't know about the TSB on the lighter viscosity....but are you saying there is a TSB on going further than 5,000 between changes by Toyota? Because only thing I've seen on that is the 5,000.....seems to me that Toyota should be the higher authority on their car than the oil marketing team! IMO by the way....

[Black Yaris]

Edit: Additionally, the person that was most adamant about that TSB was also the most adamant about a 5,000 mile drain interval. This shows an utter lack of eduction concerning modern synthetics which are commonly good for 7,500 miles, with some going as far as 15,000. This makes any information on this subject from that person suspect.

me being adamant about the drain interval has nothing to do with my education about oil and synthetics. My choice to change every 5000 has to do with with being a new model year car and things are going to happen, lets say I do have a warranty issue down the road and they want my records of my oil changes every 5000? That is the main reason I am changing every 5000 untill warranty is up... after that every 10k, because my oil is still clean after 5000 miles, but it is the price I am going to pay to adhear to my warranty scheadual. This is all information I stated earlier in the post so if you would do as much as READ you would not make FASLE accusations.

[Black Yaris]

Don't know about the TSB on the lighter viscosity....but are you saying there is a TSB on going further than 5,000 between changes by Toyota? Because only thing I've seen on that is the 5,000.....seems to me that Toyota should be the higher authority on their car than the oil marketing team! IMO by the way....

Bailout is here just to confuse you churp just keep changing your oil every 5000 like you are supposed to

[BailOut]

....but are you saying there is a TSB on going further than 5,000 between changes by Toyota?

A TSB can be issued against something like viscosity because that follows an industry standard unit of measurement. Drain intervals, however, do not, and are subject purely to the creator of the oil.

On a lighter note, if you're that worried about Toyota's wishes then maybe you should stick with standard oil. That's what your car shipped with, after all. ;)


Bailout is here just to confuse you churp just keep changing your oil every 5000 like you are supposed to
Everyone here needs to realize that the drain interval debate is purely opinion on all our parts. Some like to think conservative while others like to take advantage of new science and technology. By all means stay with 5,000 mile changes if it makes you feel more secure, but I'll only be making 1 trip to the lube shop while you make 3, and we'll each have the same level of engine protection.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i see what Black Yaris is talking about with the 5000 mile intervals.

[barebonedvitz]

i can't even find Amsoil anywhere here in Sac.

The tuning shops in sac sell em bro! --octane motorsports in citrus heights, whiplash performance along Madison Ave., and we got comptech..but they're in el dorado tho. u might wanna do a quick search! i used to buy redline oil at Trick Racing in Rancho Cordova when i had my prelude, but that was 4yrs ago, dunno if they're still there.
___

i've been using mobil 1 ep 5-30 eversince 3000. kaotic, u know i drive a lot. it's good stuff if ur driving as much as me.. i just don't wanna stress out on changing oil every month. saves me downtime and money, plus the reliability of of a good synthetic is there.. i'm switching to redline or amsoil on my next oil change.. but since u don't drive as much.. u can just stick to full syn.

[blacksan]

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

My family used Amsoil in heavy equipment for years with high quality filters like Wix. Our equipment received regular oil analysis as this heavy metal was more then quarter of a million at a pop. Having said that I really like Amsoil!!! Just because it is black does not mean that it is not working better then brand new dino butter.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

The tuning shops in sac sell em bro! --octane motorsports in citrus heights, whiplash performance along Madison Ave., and we got comptech..but they're in el dorado tho. u might wanna do a quick search! i used to buy redline oil at Trick Racing in Rancho Cordova when i had my prelude, but that was 4yrs ago, dunno if they're still there.
___

i've been using mobil 1 ep 5-30 eversince 3000. kaotic, u know i drive a lot. it's good stuff if ur driving as much as me.. i just don't wanna stress out on changing oil every month. saves me downtime and money, plus the reliability of of a good synthetic is there.. i'm switching to redline or amsoil on my next oil change.. but since u don't drive as much.. u can just stick to full syn.

yeah, i think i'll just stick to Mobil for now. come back in to L&L yo.

[barebonedvitz]

yeah, i think i'll just stick to Mobil for now. come back in to L&L yo.

i myt drop by next week man! my girl lives near by, so most likely i'll be seein ya soon! haha:thumbsup:

[Kaotic Lazagna]

cool, i work Saturday mornings, Sunday evening, and Monday evenings.

[PolarWhite]

I am new around here. I just bought my Yaris about three weeks ago. I am an automotive lubrication specialist. I have always run full synthetic or high mileage oil in anything I own. A couple of things about your Mobile 1 synthetic oil that everyone is touting on here. Read the fine print on the back of the bottle. It very clearly states that if you fall under severe driving conditions you can't run the oil for 15,000 miles. All synthetic oils, excluding Amsoil, will tell you not to exceed the mileage in your owners manual while under warranty. If you do some research, Amsoil is the only synthetic oil out there that is preaching extended drain intervals. The purpose of a full synthetic oil isn't so you don't have to change your oil. The reason behind synthetic oils is better lubrication which reduces friction which in turn reduces heat buildup which destroys an engine over the life of the vehicle. Synthetic makes cold starts less harmful as well. Also, if you look at the Toyota issue they had with sludge or oil gelling, one of the contributing factors of the problem was extended drain intervals as well as the design of the engine. Why would you want to take a short cut when it comes to the life blood of your vehicle anyway. If you can't afford to maintain a car properly, you can't afford the car in the first place. Cars need regular oil changes, air filters and other fluid changes listed in the maintenance schedule of your owners manual. You might be amazed how long a Toyota will last IF properly maintained for the life of the vehicle. As some stated earlier, everyone has an opinion and that is just my .02 cents.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

my cousin's old Cressida lasted 400k before the engine finally gave up. as for me, i'm sticking to the 5k interval for the warranty purposes. afterwards, i think i'll change at 7,500 if conditions where i live permit me.