Why did the small car die back in the early '90s?

[deebrown]

Interesting article on the MSN site talking about how fuel economy actually has gotten worse in the last 15 years as the cars have gotten bigger:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4024682

The question I ask is - why did these cars get bigger in the first place?

My own hypothesis would be that the smallest of cars HAD to get bigger otherwise they were quite literally death traps on the highway if hit by a monster SUV (another reason how the SUV helped ruin the American car industry/environment)

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[ChinoCharles]

Many older SUV's are no safer than the Yaris. They're too roll-happy.

You see SUV's on the roads en masse for the same reason Bush is in office. 52% of America is literally mentally insane. :bellyroll:

I can understand having one in the garage for the family trip, but past that they're dumb. I can fit the groceries in the Yaris just fine... and a friend.

[BailOut]

It basically comes down to one thing: gullibility/sheepability.

In America the auto manufacturers spent billions marketing to us that a bigger car meant better performance, more safety on the roads and in accidents, were more cool and desirable, etc. and we bought not only that ideology but the vehicles it represents.

In "Who Killed the Electric Car?" there's a lady that says something along the lines of, "If you feed people that for long enough they'll begin to think it's the diet.". That sure does work easily in America.

On the other side of the pond Europeans were telling the auto manufacturers that they needed smaller, more efficient cars due to the cost of fuel, and that's what they got.

During the 90's and early 2000's we fought not one but two wars in the middle east to ensure the flow of oil through exactly the channels we want in order to keep it cheap and available. Think about that... 2 wars in less than 2 decades over the same resource in the same place for the same reasons... so that metanational corporations could get rich and by proxy make their pocket politicians rich, and so that people would keep driving Hummers and Excursions, which feeds right back in to the need to keep the oil flowing.

It's the biggest racket the world has ever seen and each time we visit the pumps we pay and play right into it.

Vote the big car/small car issue with your wallet. It's the only thing metanational corporations listen to.

[Astroman]

I guess we all know how I voted :bellyroll:

[Black Yaris]

I owned a 00 Blazer b4 I bought my Yaris

[foober]

It basically comes down to one thing: gullibility/sheepability.

In America the auto manufacturers spent billions marketing to us that a bigger car meant better performance, more safety on the roads and in accidents, were more cool and desirable, etc. and we bought not only that ideology but the vehicles it represents.

In "Who Killed the Electric Car?" there's a lady that says something along the lines of, "If you feed people that for long enough they'll begin to think it's the diet.". That sure does work easily in America.

On the other side of the pond Europeans were telling the auto manufacturers that they needed smaller, more efficient cars due to the cost of fuel, and that's what they got.

During the 90's and early 2000's we fought not one but two wars in the middle east to ensure the flow of oil through exactly the channels we want in order to keep it cheap and available. Think about that... 2 wars in less than 2 decades over the same resource in the same place for the same reasons... so that metanational corporations could get rich and by proxy make their pocket politicians rich, and so that people would keep driving Hummers and Excursions, which feeds right back in to the need to keep the oil flowing.

It's the biggest racket the world has ever seen and each time we visit the pumps we pay and play right into it.

Vote the big car/small car issue with your wallet. It's the only thing metanational corporations listen to.

Well said. If americans had a brain they'd realize they're being taken to the cleaners. I'm sure politicians and corporations are glad they most americans do whatever they're told.

[Black Yaris]

small cars sucked in the early 90's.... some of the most problimatic cars/trucks stem back to the late 80's early 90's, and they problems still persist today... I will not get into specifics, cause I will just cause a HUGH fight.... so I will leave it at that :)

[churp]

There were good Japanese cars in the 60's....Triumphs and MG's were good if you liked to maintain them (my brothers 67 Spitfire got 37mpg on a 500 mile trip I made,while totally overloaded with junk)...early 60's falcons and corvairs weren't 'too' bad but otherwise the US never made a good economy car (50's Studes and Ramblers were ahead of their time).

.....and several guys at work just about shit their pants when they find a 10 year old 4x4 pickup under 10 grand!?!?!?!? The majority of Americans (the US ones) are brain dead enough to think their Chrysler 'K' car was an economy car :iono:

Seems to me the emission problems were too much for the US automakers.

[Black Yaris]

True that churp

[Typer73]

Also, a whole generation out there that never had gas rationing or having to sit in line for 5 hours to get 5 gallons of high-test because they ran out of regular.:mad:

[MudBug]

I owned a 00 Blazer b4 I bought my Yaris


I still own my 00 Z71 4x4.

I just crossed 100k and finished paying it off and was just about to trade it in on a brand new one since I actually often need a big truck (Construction, Camping, Hunting, Quad, and just carrying a bunch of stuff), but at the last minute decided that one of these little things as a second car made more sense.

my Truck probably has another 80 - 100k, but if I traded it in on a new one I would have probably had to pay another $24k and I would have had just one vehicle. This way I'll still have a truck when I need one, but I also have a second vehicle that gets great gas mileage, and still can carry a lot of stuff.

If it came down to having just one vehicle, it would be a full sized, extra-cab, Chevy 4x4 with a big 8 cylinder engine, cuz I need one. In fact I believe everybody should own a truck, I'm tired of moving everyone else's shit.

As for why small cars died in the 90's, have you ever heard of the Yugo?

[vodkalush]

lets start a 98-01 blazer club!!!!!

but really, you can thank the soccer mom for the death of the small car...
which in-turn mean you can blame any church (as they don't support abortion, birth control.. which contributes to the growth in the average American family.....don't quote me, but it sounds good :wink:)

[churp]

I understand the truck thing....have an 87 ford 4x4 cause I need it sometimes. The 10mpg just about killed me when my pre Yaris (Probe) died! My previous comment on trucks was aimed at one of the guys at work that has 3 full size trucks and no cars, and I have yet to see him haul anything.

[MudBug]

It basically comes down to one thing: gullibility/sheepability.



Sure :rolleyes:


Post a picture of your small car with a quad in the back, pulling a boat 500 miles across the state to lake havasu or a trailer filled with camping gear 40 miles off the main roads into the middle of the desert, or filled with enough tile to do your kitchen and bathroom, or enough plywood, 2x4's, and roofing materials to build a shed.


Small cars good for people that live in huge cites, as a second car for commuting, or for kids. Anyone else is either stuck with it (Economy), batshit crazy (Eco freaks), or just plain crazy about small car tuning for performance. (probably the majority of the people here)

[vodkalush]

Sure :rolleyes:


Post a picture of your small car with a quad in the back, pulling a boat 500 miles across the state to lake havasu or a trailer filled with camping gear 40 miles off the main roads into the middle of the desert, or filled with enough tile to do your kitchen and bathroom, or enough plywood, 2x4's, and roofing materials to build a shed.


Small cars good for people that live in huge cites, as a second car for commuting, or for kids. Anyone else is either stuck with it (Economy), batshit crazy (Eco freaks), or just plain crazy about small car tuning for performance. (probably the majority of the people here)

gahhhh hahaha

[BailOut]

MudBug,

You're not the only one whose second car is a truck. My '96 Tacoma Extended Cab 4x4 hauls a boat over Mt. Rose to Lake Tahoe or over the rolling hills to Pyramid, and has done so chock full of party/picnic/camping gear and with 4 passengers. It also carries dirt, rock, tile, recyclable metals, etc. like a champ.

However, it is used for just those things and those things don't happen very often and/or are seasonal. We can go so long between uses on it that I'll hook up a solar battery charger and check its tires. Despite being almost 12 years old it's not even close to 100k miles yet.

99.9% of our driving has always been done on our smaller car, which as of February is a Yaris.

Back to the issue at hand...

What I think you fail to realize is that better than 95% of all trucks and SUVs on the road today don't have 4WD, don't have trailer hitches or anything to tow with one, have never had dirt or sand under their wheels, have never been loaded with anything heavier than a morbidly obese human or been used as a truck in any other way, shape or form.

The world's largest fleet of over-sized vehicles rolls out of garages, driveways, car ports and lots every morning to perform their lowly roles of single-occupant commuters, errand runners, grocery getters and extracurricular conveyance platforms, getting 15 MPG on a good day and spewing large amounts of noxious emissions the whole time.

I've seen a pair of 10 year olds climb out of the back seat of an Excursion and dangle like circus performers because their feet can't reach the ground. I guess their parents just didn't think the car payment for a station wagon or minivan was big enough.

I've seen a Hummer 2 at the Post Office whose sole occupant was there to pick up 1 bin of mail that was about the size of two loaves of bread side by side. I guess his short stature and graying hair had more to do with his vehicle purchase than his transport requirements.

One of my coworkers commutes alone from Carson City to Lake Tahoe in a Chevy Z71 4x4 Extended Cab 5 days per week. The bed doesn't have a single scratch in it. When asked why he feels he needs such a truck he just shrugs.

I think you see my point.

[Nutzoids]

Owning a Work Truck or an SUV that you actually USE to go off-road is not where the problem lies… The problem lies in the Driveways of your Average American House Wife that own a Big Fucking SUV to haul her 2 kids to school/Soccer Practice…

And of course… The people who own Off-Roading Vehicles who are too afraid to even get them Dirty!

I can’t tell you the amount of pride I feel when I pull up next to a Jeep Covered in MUD!

Or a pickup truck full of Rocks or Manure… I take my hats off to those people…

And the amount of Shame I feel When I pull up next to a Hummer with 22” Dubs and all Chromed out! I can’t even describe in words! What the fuck man?

To the House Wives and the Grocery Getters… I hope that one day you flip that Gargantuan Piece of Shit you call a car!

:evil:

[MudBug]

I think you see my point.


I do understand what you are saying, and agree to a point, but I think you might just be seeing the stupid and missing the necessary.

If you can only own one car, it needs to do everything for you. You saw the little kids dangling from the truck, but maybe you missed the cargo area filled with real estate signs, or the weds night when it's filled with cheerleaders going for pizza with coach after practice, or the saturdays when it's filled with camping gear for a boyscout day camp.

Like I said, if I wasn't lucky enough to be able to afford a second vehicle right now my only vehicle would be a full sized truck which would spend 70% of it's time as a commuter back and forth to school and work, but when I need a truck I need one and I aint renting or bugging one of my friends to help me.

This Yaris is the first car I've owned in 23 years, my last car was a little FIAT sedan.

[BailOut]

I hear you, but...

maybe you missed the cargo area filled with real estate signs
Real estate signs fit neatly in the back of anything other than a trunk. Almost any hatchback or liftback will do.

or the weds night when it's filled with cheerleaders going for pizza with coach after practice
You can fit more people in a minivan than an Excursion.

or the saturdays when it's filled with camping gear for a boyscout day camp
Again a minivan, or even a crossover, would do just fine for this.


It is almost impossible to justify a large vehicle for 99% of the drivers on the road today. Very few of us can actually use a truck or SUV, many more can get by with mid-sized vehicles like minivans, station wagons, crossovers and light trucks, and the majority could get by with just a small, efficient car.

[MudBug]

It is almost impossible to justify a large vehicle for 99% of the drivers on the road today. Very few of us can actually use a truck or SUV, many more can get by with mid-sized vehicles like minivans, station wagons, crossovers and light trucks, and the majority could get by with just a small, efficient car.


Have you been paying attention, SUVs are getting smaller, and the midsized wagon things are taking over.

Aint Capitalism grand?

People used to drive cars, but they wanted something that could carry more stuff, they started buying the early SUV type vehicles buy wanted more luxury, so the SUV craze was born. Then they wanted better handling and found that they didn't need the 4x4 stuff so the SUVs got car suspensions and closer to the ground. Now they want better gas mileage and the sport wagon things are all the craze, Technology has caught up and it's not unreasonable to ask for a performance motor that gets good gas mileage, or a small car with lots of room and utility. I would have never considered a car like the Yaris until now, but it all caught up. A small car that gets good gas mileage, has lots of room for both people and stuff, and it doesn't overheat when I run the AC in AZ heat like the Yugo my GF owned in the 90's. Aint capitalism grand?!


Honestly, your blaming people for not buying stuff that they didn't know they needed and wasn't available even if they did know.

[Astroman]

I owned a '87 Chevy Astro van before my Yaris. Sure, it was a great hauler, seated up to 8, had a 27gal tank, could tow more than any other van in its class, but I never sat more than 6 people in it at one time. When I went over 75mph, I got 8mpg. At 55mph, I got 22mpg. It was a GREAT rig when I needed to haul things like furniture, my yamaha scooter, anything over 4ft long, etc. But more often, I drove it with just me, not hauling anything. Most of the time I owned the van it never had the seats in. My daily commute is 3.2 miles to work, times 4 (work, home for lunch, back to work, back home) and that was too much vehicle for just that. My girlfriend has a taurus wagon and it has a roof rack. Since I got rid of the van anytime we have needed to haul anything long, or say like a couch, we can either fit it with the seats down or strap it on top. And even though it gets maybe 16-24mpg, it is WAY better on gas than my van ever was. Sure, little cars are not the best rigs for towing, mud bogging, penis envy, seeing over the top of everyone else, hauling your entire extended family on a month long camping trip, but they are perfect for couples, singles, anyone who drives a lot in town, 3 people on a week long camping trip (I did it, you can too!). I commute a lot, about 1500-2500 miles each month. 99.5% of the year my yaris fits my needs. Getting to work, shopping, visiting family 2 hours away, trips to california, hauling around a few friends, my gas & insurance budget, the list goes on. I would love to have a old truck for hauling or towing, but not as a daily driver. My mom bought a '72 chevy C20 for just that. She wanted a old, 4x4 truck to be able to haul & tow. She puts about 2,000 miles a year on it hauling hay, wood, furniture, manure, gravel, dirt, trailer. It's her work truck. It's a tool. A small car is a tool that works for 4 or less people, grocery shopping, environmental impact, fuel economy, etc. Vehicles are tools, they are machines. If you live up in the mountains and you need a 4x4 in the winter so be it, you have to do what you have to do. If you have a 4-wheeler or snowmobile, need to haul manure or gravel so be it. If you need to haul a lot of people get a damn van, they do have them as well in front/rear/all/4 wheel drive. And believe me, there is more room inside a van than a SUV. My 2 cent rant. :biggrin:

[static808]

And believe me, there is more room inside a van than a SUV. My 2 cent rant. :biggrin:

nice post. its one of the big reasons why we got our van. we find it funny when kids being picked up at school have to pole vault into their moms' huge SUVs. i agree with mudbug that the utility purposes of large vehicles are very underappreciated, but i live in SoCal. i guarantee you that 95% of large vehicle (SUV, large Pick-up) owners out there DO NOT need the size of their vehicle. how much lumber is that 17 year old blonde going to carry from home to school in her chevy tahoe?? NONE. how much manure is that 25 year old stock broker going to transport from his work in century city to his condo in venice beach with that ford f-250?? NONE. when you look in the carppol lanes, what do you see here?? a shit load of civic hybrids and priuses with their carpool access stickers draped all over their bumpers and fenders. where are all of the SUVs and trucks?? stuck in traffic, since all of the drivers are riding by themselves, completely alone, carrying no cargo whatsoever. how do i know that?? yuppies in business suits, teenagers on cell phones, and metrosexuals fixing their hair using the rear view mirror DONT HAUL CRAP. but i totally give mad respect for the 5% of truck owners out there in SoCal that actually USE their vehicles. guess that's my rant for the day. sorry if i offended anyone, but if you're a single person who drives a big-ass vehicle and DOESNT need it, my apology doesnt apply to you...

--B

[eTiMaGo]

Back to the original topic, small cars had to get bigger because people wanted more space, more gadgets, more safety features, less noise... this means cars got bloated, bigger engines were needed, fuel consumption went down the drain... But if you think about it, there is some method to this madness, get two 80s lightweight hatchbacks in a head-on collision at 100mph, there won't be much left, modern hatchbacks will give you a better chance of surviving.

It's funny to see the evolution of those light cars, for example the Volkswagen Golf... The original one was a boxy, thin sheet metal affair, very lightweight, and in GTI form could get better acceleration that a latest model GTI with an engine that's maybe twice as powerful (not sure on the power figures, but look up the Top Gear video which is probably on Youtube).
Then what happens? The car company creates a newer, smaller car to take the place of the original.. Volkswagen Lugo, Peugeot 107 (and now the even smaller 1007), Toyota Aygo, etc etc

[Astroman]

I agree. Anyone who has ridden in a geo metro/suzuki swift knows on the highway those things feel like your going to die.

[static808]

to be fair to the little car, almost all classes of cars have gotten significantly better in terms of safety and efficiency since the 80s. but i agree that riding in cars like the metro and yugo were indeed very thrilling, since it did sometimes feel like near-death experiences! my favorite little car back then was my sister's daihatsu charade. 150,000 miles. was a weekend commuter car for going back and forth to Socal and AZ (she went to grad school there). what was the greatest part of that car?? she gave it only TWO oil changes for the life of the car! she would only top off the oil every few months. why did the car die?? it was burned in a garage fire! if not for the fire, she said the car still drove great and would have lasted MUCH longer. she was getting 50 mpg. THAT was a great car...

--B

[Yaris Revenge]

I agree that 80's small cars were scary. I think that advances in tech have now allowed us to vastly improve upon that.

That said, nothing chaps my ass more than an Escalade. That thing was designed by Satan himself. I don't mind it so much by the rapper crowd (it's understood, they have NO brains, and will buy anything that costs absurd $$$ just because it DOES), but the businessmen trying to look all macho...grrr.

~YR

[captainzerocool]

Many older SUV's are no safer than the Yaris. They're too roll-happy.

You see SUV's on the roads en masse for the same reason Bush is in office. 52% of America is literally mentally insane. :bellyroll:

I can understand having one in the garage for the family trip, but past that they're dumb. I can fit the groceries in the Yaris just fine... and a friend.

Your hilarious. Really....

It all boils down to image. Wagons were cool at one point then they died out in favor of minivans, who's death lead to "SUV's". Small cars like the Yaris may be next on that list.

[static808]

Wagons were cool at one point then they died out in favor of minivans, who's death lead to "SUV's". Small cars like the Yaris may be next on that list.

hahah...HEY! wagons, vans and hatchbacks will always be as cool as the other side of the pillow! if we're the only ones on the block with them, while everyone else has a SUV, doesnt that make us cool?? i always thought it was the less you were concerned about being cool, the cooler you actually were?? if thats the case, then all YW members are as cold as ice...

--B

[acrbill]

In this day and age of crumple zones and multiple airbags small cars are a lot safer than decades ago. Did anyone see that video of a Smart ForTwo hitting a concrete barrier at high speed? It bounced off and had no cabin intrusion at all. The doors still opened and shut. Its considerably easier to avoid an accident with my Yaris vs. my Expedition. In some respects a truck/SUV is safer, basically when someone hits you. Some of the turns I make in my Yaris on a daily basis would flip my truck over. Even something as simple as a tire blow out on the expressway might spell disaster for a tall SUV. My Yaris on the other hand had a totally flat RR tire that I noticed when I was getting out of the car. I very likely was driving on it for at least a mile and did not even notice it.

I personally like small cars, my wife on the other hand likes large SUV's. Its all a matter of personal opinion. In the past week I used loaded the Expedition with a load that would not have fit in an Explorer. It would have fit in a Grand Caravan but neither my wife or I have any desire to own a minivan. I always figured I would end up with a minivan until I used my sisters Odyssey to drive 10 hours straight. As soon as I got home I realized I could never own a minivan.

[louisq]

Interesting article on the MSN site talking about how fuel economy actually has gotten worse in the last 15 years as the cars have gotten bigger:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4024682

The question I ask is - why did these cars get bigger in the first place?

My own hypothesis would be that the smallest of cars HAD to get bigger otherwise they were quite literally death traps on the highway if hit by a monster SUV (another reason how the SUV helped ruin the American car industry/environment)

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?++

Nineties hell....Saab had GREAT small cars in the fifties and sixties...My Saab '69 95 was a kick ass car. :thumbsup: The 93 and earlier 2 stroke triples were screamers and kicked butt on the rest including the italians in road racing.:bow:

:burnrubber:

[wagoneer]

Sure :rolleyes:


Post a picture of your small car with a quad in the back, pulling a boat 500 miles across the state to lake havasu or a trailer filled with camping gear 40 miles off the main roads into the middle of the desert, or filled with enough tile to do your kitchen and bathroom, or enough plywood, 2x4's, and roofing materials to build a shed.


Small cars good for people that live in huge cites, as a second car for commuting, or for kids. Anyone else is either stuck with it (Economy), batshit crazy (Eco freaks), or just plain crazy about small car tuning for performance. (probably the majority of the people here)

ummm. what he said.

[Typer73]

You should've see us driving down the highway with a 7-ft sofa tied to the top of our '73 VW beetle! Never found anything that wouldn't fit in or on that car.

[spkrman]

have never been loaded with anything heavier than a morbidly obese human or been used as a truck in any other way, shape or form.

LMAO

[spkrman]

It is almost impossible to justify a large vehicle for 99% of the drivers on the road today. Very few of us can actually use a truck or SUV, many more can get by with mid-sized vehicles like minivans, station wagons, crossovers and light trucks, and the majority could get by with just a small, efficient car.

This is very true.