tooter's next manifold adventure... [Archive] - Toyota Yaris Forums

tooter

11-29-2013, 06:39 PM

Ok, tooter's back at it again with another adventure... :smile:

This time it's a bolt on intake manifold spacer that will make the manifold runners longer to lower the torque curve.

I installed a stock intake manifold so that I can check out all of the clearances, and it looks great with a generous 3.5 inches of empty space between the front of the manifold and the radiator reservoir.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7614_zps9d38a363.jpg

A 2 inch thick spacer should be perfect with plenty of room to slip the manifold over the longer threaded studs. Plus we already have the tooling to do two inch deep machining. So far it looks like all green lights! :thumbsup:

I'll have a prototype spacer made (it'll look similar to this one I produced for Tacoma trucks.)...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7600_zps36c6d51d.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7588_zps10368192.jpg

It'll be dyno tested just like the manifolds. Then we'll see what the before and after torque curves look like, and go from there. :smile:

Greg

Mongoose7

11-29-2013, 08:18 PM

Nice work !!!!!!!!!!!! Waiting for the dyno results.

tooter

11-29-2013, 09:35 PM

Nice work !!!!!!!!!!!! Waiting for the dyno results.

So am I. :smile:

They'll be engraved similar to this except it'll be I.V instead of II.VII.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7541_zpsaf60e98f.jpg

CTScott

11-29-2013, 09:48 PM

Very cool!

After towing another Yaris 8 hours from Ohio to CT, I think my 6 cylinder Tacoma could use one as well to shift the torque curve down.

CrankyOldMan

11-29-2013, 10:41 PM

After towing another Yaris 8 hours from Ohio to CT...

Have you considered talking to a professional about this Yaris "hobby" of yours? =)

Tooter: this seems like it could be a solid mod for the non-boosted SMF AutoX crowd, since low-end torque is lacking so badly from our NA motor.

tooter

11-30-2013, 03:19 AM

Very cool!

After towing another Yaris 8 hours from Ohio to CT, I think my 6 cylinder Tacoma could use one as well to shift the torque curve down.

Hey Scott, :smile:

Someone else makes one to fit your 1GR FE 4.0 engine... :thumbsup:

http://extremetruckperformance.com/?page_id=300

It's one half inch thick because of intake to hood clearance issues. The little 4 banger has an advantage of plenty of room on the side, so I made my spacer four times thicker. This is the prototype I'm currently running on my truck...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7158_zps382f48bf.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7570_zpsdfbc0d6a.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7391_zps6e37cec4.jpg

Greg

tooter

11-30-2013, 03:46 AM

Have you considered talking to a professional about this Yaris "hobby" of yours? =)

Hey Cranky, :smile:

Talk about what? I already know an extremely competent professional engineer who produces my concepts, and I already do all of my own testing, marketing, sales, and shipping. I really enjoy the personal autonomy of undiluted control over the complete process from concept to finished product sales and customer service. :thumbsup: And I'm dealing with very small easily manageable product quantities because the market is paper thin.

Tooter: this seems like it could be a solid mod for the non-boosted SMF AutoX crowd, since low-end torque is lacking so badly from our NA motor.

Well, I don't know that yet. A dyno tested prototype will render the final verdict as to how solid a mod it might turn out to be.

By the way, what's SMF AutoX?

Regards,

Greg

tooter

11-30-2013, 03:52 AM

Here's a video of the dyno run with the spacer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ofUy8_-6Q

BEEF

11-30-2013, 07:22 AM

I think he more meant a professional to help market your products and get your name out there. i feel like there are a lot of guys out there like me. i love power but price point is an issue. i'd love to have the manifold garm sells but have better places for $700 to go. if i could get the results (or close) without the looks (his mani is nice), i would be willing to go that route.

I am eagarly watching this project.

CrankyOldMan

11-30-2013, 10:50 AM

I think he more meant ...

Nope, that was to CTScott. I think he has an addiction to Yarii. =) Tooter has been doing an excellent job of bringing these products to the market, however thin it may be.

SMF = Street Modified FWD in Autocross. I'm not sure how someone would get to SMF with a Yaris without going forced induction (suspension/wheel width/cams?) or dropping in another Toyota engine, but any modifications between the TB and the engine puts you in SMF. At the local level I can almost keep up with the other SMF cars, but any time someone from the National level shows up (in a Civic, normally) it's game over.

tooter

11-30-2013, 12:26 PM

I think he more meant a professional to help market your products and get your name out there.

Yikes, beef! :eek:
That's the LAST thing I want to do! That would set into motion a set of circumstances I shudder to contemplate, and I don't ever want to go there.

I'm totally satisfied with the present scale of operations just as it is because I'm completely free to express my own vision and to implement my own ideas. I can go from a virtual concept to a finished saleable product in just a couple of months instead of giving up my autonomy and control by diddling away years of haggling around with third parties.

The engineer who does my design and machining does small manageable batches in his spare time, which are in total sync with market demand.

So far, with both the tooter intake manifold, tooter kits, and tooter II.VII spacer I've been able to meet my goal of recovering all of my R&D production and sales costs, and ending up with free products for my own personal use. And I'm totally happy with that. It's an elegantly simple setup that works like a charm. I get all the fun and adventure of creative innovation... but with none of the business and financial headaches. :thumbsup:

1. Autonomy The freedom to act independently.
2. Mastery Refining ways to do things better.
3. Purpose The ability to implement my vision.

I'm just not willing to give up any of those. :wink:

Greg

cali yaris

11-30-2013, 12:53 PM

if i could get the results (or close) without the looks (his mani is nice), i would be willing to go that route.

Unfortunately, quality doesn't work that way, or I'd be offering a different product. The looks are a result of good workmanship. :smile:

BEEF

11-30-2013, 01:08 PM

Cali, i wasn't knockin your stuff. almost everything on my car came from MI.

1.5

11-30-2013, 02:12 PM

Ive seen the TB spacer and those usually produce gains so id be excited to see how this does too. Have you thought of doing a tb as well tooter?

tooter

11-30-2013, 02:33 PM

Ive seen the TB spacer and those usually produce gains so id be excited to see how this does too. Have you thought of doing a tb as well tooter?

No.
Throttle body spacers don't actually do anything except slightly enlarge the air volume of the plenum. The CNC engineer at the design shop told me that once the intake runners are reading infinite (open space) at the entrances where they connect to the plenum, enlarging the plenum makes no difference.

In contrast, lengthening the intake runners themselves does alter the operating properties of the intake manifold by shifting the torque curve lower in the rpm range.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/4thgearbeforeandafter_zps12bc97c8.jpg

I'm pretty sure that a 2 inch thick Yaris spacer will yield results similar to the 2 inch thick Tacoma spacer as the two intake manifolds are of a similar design. I wanted to do a spacer for the tooter, but it already takes up almost all of the space in front of the engine.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7525_zps06864a7f.jpg

Greg

CrankyOldMan

11-30-2013, 08:27 PM

No.
Throttle body spacers don't actually do anything except slightly enlarge the air volume of the plenum. The CNC engineer at the design shop told me that once the intake runners are reading infinite (open space) at the entrances where they connect to the plenum, enlarging the plenum makes no difference.

In contrast, lengthening the intake runners themselves does alter the operating properties of the intake manifold by shifting the torque curve lower in the rpm range.

Aah yes, the old Helmholtz resonator. I've always wondered what the plenum side of that equation is, since the only readily available information is about the neck/runner length and volume of the resonating body.

tooter

01-10-2014, 01:02 AM

Ok... enough goofing around over the holidays. I'm back in the saddle again. :smile:

A couple of nylon blocks for two prototype tooter I.V spacers have been ordered along with the blocks to make more tooter II.VII spacers. They should be in next week. :smile:

Greg

tk-421

01-10-2014, 02:42 AM

Have you considered talking to a professional about this Yaris "hobby" of yours? =)

I think he was talking about CTScott and his (un?)healthy amounts of geekiness surrounding the Yaris. :wink:

tooter

01-10-2014, 02:51 AM

I think he was talking about CTScott and his (un?)healthy amounts of geekiness surrounding the Yaris. :wink:

My Yaris obsession has also spread to the Tacoma... :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvIBURPwtXw

Klink10

01-10-2014, 09:56 AM

tooter

01-17-2014, 04:17 PM

The shipment of nylon blocks came in yesterday. :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7689_zps2b27f81d.jpg?t=1389987181

The two shorter blocks on top are for a couple of Yaris prototypes for dyno testing. The rest are for another production run of tooter Tacoma spacers. There's a set of aluminum parts in the works right now, as I'm also building another tooter intake manifold.

So there's three projects all going on at the same time. :wink:

Greg

tooter

01-24-2014, 01:00 PM

The prototype spacer should be ready any day now.

(ooh goody :smile: )

malibuguy

01-24-2014, 02:10 PM

Sweet. I finally welded my tooter together last week. I'm going to dyno before and after as well. Wont be for another couple weeks once I make the intake and hopefully get a 'rolla tb

tk-421

01-24-2014, 03:45 PM

I finally welded my tooter together last week.

That sounds painful. :biggrin:

malibuguy

01-24-2014, 04:35 PM

Rofl

tooter

01-25-2014, 02:20 AM

The very first tooter I.V intake manifold spacer prototype is done... :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/e5da9da3-1c9d-45d3-8b8f-96f1703bd2f0_zpsa554a59f.jpg?t=1390630705

Klink10

01-25-2014, 09:47 AM

Excellent. Looking forward to testing.

lambros

01-25-2014, 10:44 AM

What is the benefits of this spacer?

CrankyOldMan

01-25-2014, 10:52 AM

...lengthening the intake runners themselves does alter the operating properties of the intake manifold by shifting the torque curve lower in the rpm range.

What is the benefits of this spacer?

Please read the thread before asking questions that have been answered.

lambros

01-25-2014, 10:53 AM

Thank you

RJay

01-25-2014, 10:53 AM

tooter

01-25-2014, 04:44 PM

I suppose a flatter torque curve :) Longer runners give you that whilst shorter runners give you a bit extra horsies.
That's the theory at least. I know there are some cars with variable intake runners.

You can see on this dyno chart exactly what 2 inch longer runners do. This is with the tooter II.VII spacer on my Toyota Tacoma.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/4thgearbeforeandafter_zps12bc97c8.jpg

Blue line is without the spacer, and the torque peak is 3,150rpm.
Red line is with the spacer, and the torque peak is 2,900 rpm.

Basically it moves the whole curve downward towards lower rpms as well as fattening up the curve a bit.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/4thgearbeforeandafter_zps12bc97c8.jpg

Tacoma manifold with spacer...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7479_zpsee3210e1.jpg

I'm expecting a similar effect on the Yaris when I dyno test it. How much, who knows? And that's what we'll find out. :wink:

Greg

tooter

01-25-2014, 04:52 PM

What is the benefits of this spacer?

I don't mind you asking because the threads get large and I wouldn't expect everyone to read everything. I just answered your question in the last post. :smile:

Latest news... the prototype is being engraved with the tooter logo today, and I pick it up tomorrow morning!:smile:

So I'll try to get it installed and running on Sunday and I'll give you guys my driving impression. If I can find time off work, I'll get it dynoed this week. :thumbsup:

Greg

tooter

01-25-2014, 10:04 PM

Ta Da... :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/tooterIVprototype_zps13038487.jpeg

Now there's two tooters... :wink:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7554_zpsc13af858.jpg

malibuguy

01-25-2014, 11:44 PM

Looks "toots" ;)

RJay

01-26-2014, 10:08 AM

Looks nice, and I estimate the tacoma runs a bit smoother and lazyer with the 2 inch?

Still that is a pretty flat torque curve to start with.

tooter

01-26-2014, 09:19 PM

Looks nice, and I estimate the tacoma runs a bit smoother and lazyer with the 2 inch?

Still that is a pretty flat torque curve to start with.

Yes it's very flat. The Tacoma is a slow turning low end torque industrial engine. The redline is only 5,600 rpm and there isn't much over 4,000 rpm.

The dyno charts don't show it but the truck pulls like a tractor right from idle and even below. I measured the slope of my driveway with an inclinometer and it's 12 degrees. My fully loaded truck climbs right up it even down to only 500 rpm without stalling. It vibrates just like a tractor engine. If you've ever driven a tractor, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I live and work in a steep canyon and am always crawling up and down the hills in first gear, so this spacer exactly suits my own needs. :thumbsup:

Here's the dyno run with the tooter spacer. All the sound is the intake because the exhaust was stock when I ran it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ofUy8_-6Q

And an acceleration run, same spacer, stock exhaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvIBURPwtXw

Greg

tooter

01-26-2014, 09:43 PM

Here's the prototype on the manifold...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7696_zps464d3449.jpg

It doubles the length of straight runner section before entering the head as well as adding a little more volume to the manifold.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7698_zps8f973d84.jpg

This with the spacer on the engine. Installation is stupid easy. :smile: There's tons of clearance everywhere, and even the oil dipstick tube fit perfectly. You can hardly tell it's there because it's covered up by the fuel rail and the wiring loom.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7702_zps9b9e8935.jpg?t=1390786109

With the cover on, it's literally invisible. I bet it wouldn't even be noticed on a smog test.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7701_zps87a877f2.jpg

I drove it around today, but couldn't really tell any difference, because I'm so used to driving the tooter ET manifold and the larger Corolla throttle body. So that was giving up a lot of advantages. Still it ran good with no issues. I had disconnected the battery so that the ECU could adjust back to the different stock manifold, the different throttle body, and to the spacer as well. All three being changed at exactly the same time caused the ECU hunt around for quite a while trying to figure out the right idle. But it eventually stabilized and the engine runs just fine. :smile:

I'll see about dyno runs this week, if I can find the time.

Greg

Ryze268

01-28-2014, 10:35 AM

Can't wait to see some Dyno results :)

CrankyOldMan

01-28-2014, 12:14 PM

So stealth!

Viperoni

01-28-2014, 11:37 PM

Awesome!
Hope the dyno shows something the butt dyno doesn't :)

tooter

01-29-2014, 01:03 AM

Awesome!
Hope the dyno shows something the butt dyno doesn't :)

Yeah, the dyno is the only way to know for sure. I'll do some runs as soon as I can, but I don't think it'll be this week as I'm on starting a big job tomorrow. The car also needs to be driven for a while to settle in to all of the new operating parameters. So far it only has 5 miles on the new setup. And I can't tell because I'm already so used to driving it with the larger more responsive 1ZZ throttle body and the tooter I was running already has longer intake runners than the stock manifold.

Greg

exileddeus

01-29-2014, 03:05 PM

Good stuff!! Keeping an eye on this.

tooter

02-01-2014, 06:43 PM

My wife has been driving the car all week so the ECU is all dialed in now. Today, I finally got a chance to drive the car a decent distance, and it definitely has more low rpm torque right from off idle to 2,000 rpm. :smile: I did my "clutch test", and can let out the clutch pretty quick with no gas and the engine won't stall. I used 2,000 rpms as the shift point to get a good feel for how it accelerates at low rpms and drove it at 35 mph in 5th gear to see how it handles the low rpm load. Feels like driving a little truck.:wink:

My wife had said that the exhaust sounds "funny", and after driving it today, wow... it sure does! :eek: Up to now I had driven it only about 5 miles after first installing the spacer, and had babied it not knowing how it was going to work. So I didn't hear what it sounded like at higher rpms. When you get on the throttle, the engine makes this really strange rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound like a 4 cylinder motorcycle engine. So the spacer actually did change the operating parameters of the engine quite a bit.

Dyno testing will be this coming Monday the 3rd if Harry can fit me into his schedule, so we should get to see the results soon.

Man, I can hardly wait... :smile:

Greg

tooter

02-01-2014, 08:54 PM

Took the car out again and on the freeway for the first time. Flat out acceleration there's nothing at the top end, but then I'm used to the 1ZZ throttle body with the tooter. It cruises with very little throttle At 2,500 to 3,500, and feels great, so I'll begin taking gas mileage readings when I fill it up after the dyno test on Monday.

On the bottom it undeniably feels stronger. I did my "driveway test". It's a 12% grade and from a standing start, the car goes right up at only 400 rpm with no bucking or stalling. The road that goes to my house has a really steep grade, so I also use that one as a test because I'm constantly going up and down and know exactly how it feels. When purposefully short shifting out of first down to only 1,000 rpm in second, it accelerates right up the hill with absolutely no bogging or bucking or straining and without needing a lot of throttle. Now I'm starting to get excited about this as it's passing all of my torque tests with flying colors. :)

But my impressions are highly subjective. That's why we need the dyno so that we can see some real numbers. :thumbsup:

Greg

Ryze268

02-01-2014, 09:38 PM

Well done Greg, keep the updates coming :)

malibuguy

02-02-2014, 12:49 PM

Badass

Golddeenoh

02-02-2014, 02:40 PM

very important to have low end torque, for um... red light acceleration. you know, when leaving red light and trying to get up to proper speed limits and economy speeds.

tooter

02-02-2014, 07:52 PM

very important to have low end torque, for um... red light acceleration. you know, when leaving red light and trying to get up to proper speed limits and economy speeds.

On the test drive I accidently spun the wheels taking off. And I never do that. It was quite a surprise! :eek:

Greg

cali yaris

02-02-2014, 10:03 PM

for um... red light acceleration. you know, when leaving red light and trying to get up to proper speed limits and economy speeds.

heh, that made me chuckle.

tooter

02-03-2014, 12:46 PM

It's dyno day. :smile:

I'm waiting for the call...

cali yaris

02-03-2014, 03:00 PM

Can't wait to see.

Golddeenoh

02-03-2014, 05:27 PM

how about now?

:D

tooter

02-03-2014, 05:59 PM

Ok. Just got back from Harry's shop...

(ta da :smile: )

Red: no spacer
Blue: with the tooter I.V spacer

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/beforeandafterspacer2_zps6a51b60b.jpg

Both runs were done with the same short ram intake, the same air filter, the same stock plastic intake manifold, the same stock throttle body, the same header, and the same axle back exhaust.

The tooter I.V intake manifold spacer was the only change.

This is similar to the results I got with my Tacoma. The I.V spacer lowered the torque peak from 4,100 rpm down to 3,650 rpm as well as fattening up the torque curve a little. Not too bad for just a simple bolt on part. :smile:

Just for context, the bone stock torque peak is 4,400 rpm, so the intake, the 4-2-1 header, and the Magnaflow exhaust had already lowered it by 300 rpm. The spacer lowered the peak by another 450 rpm for a total of 750 rpm.

Greg

WeeYari

02-03-2014, 06:03 PM

Got a selling price set yet? I couldn't spot mention of $$s in this thread.

Golddeenoh

02-03-2014, 06:40 PM

nice .65HP and 3.2lbft torque. now if you can get the production price and kits together. :wink:

tooter

02-03-2014, 06:54 PM

Got a selling price set yet? I couldn't spot mention of $$s in this thread.

Not yet... I just ordered a dozen blocks for the first production run and the shop hasn't gotten back to me yet on the material cost.

From the original concept on November 29th to a dyno tested prototype took only a little over 3 months and that was with the holidays. So if all goes well, I should have finished products ready to ship in another month for a total elapsed time of 4 months from virtual concept to the reality of a finished product ready to sell.

This is the advantage of a microbusiness where just one person calls all the shots. :smile:

Greg

tooter

02-03-2014, 07:19 PM

nice .65HP and 3.2lbft torque. now if you can get the production price and kits together. :wink:

I'm working on it right now... :tongue:
The negligible horsepower increase is only incidental as this was not designed to be a top end high performance accessory. The purpose of this spacer is to make regular daily driving easier because the engine doesn't have to work as hard at low rpms.

And the increased torque peak really isn't all that much either. Most all of the advantage comes from shifting the whole torque curve down lower in the rpm range. So as the two torque curves are climbing, the spacer curve remains above of the baseline curve. This spreads the torque increase over a larger rpm operating range. :smile:

This mod is for just regular low rpm daily driving.

Greg

malibuguy

02-03-2014, 10:29 PM

Anyway to overlay this with a tooter dyno as well?

Btw madness on the midrange gains!

tooter

02-04-2014, 12:45 AM

Anyway to overlay this with a tooter dyno as well?

Btw madness on the midrange gains!

That's a great idea. :smile: I'll see if Harry can do it. I need to talk to him about the chart anyways as the peak numbers don't match up with the line on the chart, so one or the other isn't right.

The tooter manifold with the larger throttle body makes 111 horsepower, so it's graph will be a lot stronger at the top.

It would be run 16 with the plain tooter intake manifold and the 1ZZ throttle body...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/beforeandafter_zpsa485b55b.jpg
...and run 23 with the stock manifold and the tooter I.V spacer.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/beforeandafterspacer2_zps6a51b60b.jpg

Longer intake runners making more torque is a sound mechanical principle that worked out really well on my Tacoma, so I figured, heck, why not for the Yaris too? :wink:

Greg

7:34pm

02-04-2014, 03:20 AM

Kaotic Lazagna

02-04-2014, 04:12 AM

I like the bump in torque and where the bumps are in the band.

Silver Streak

02-04-2014, 08:49 AM

I'm very excited about this spacer. Most of my driving is done in this rpm range, and will make the 1.5's acceptable torque even better.

tooter

02-04-2014, 12:41 PM

There's something that doesn't show up in the dyno runs, and that's partial throttle performance at extremely low rpms right down to idle and even below. This is because the dyno runs done by mashing the gas pedal to the floor at 1,300 rpm in third gear. This is an extreme condition that is not encountered in normal driving. Very low off idle torque is exceptionally good especially when taking off from a stop with a manual transmission. On level ground even if you let out the clutch and forget to use the throttle, the engine doesn't die. Instead the car slowly moves forward without any bucking.

Greg

WeeYari

02-04-2014, 12:44 PM

Not yet... I just ordered a dozen blocks for the first production run and the shop hasn't gotten back to me yet on the material cost.

In the meantime, can you source a shipping quote to L0P 1K0 Ontario, Canada? Preferably USPS.

marcus

02-04-2014, 12:54 PM

sweeet!

tooter

02-04-2014, 01:02 PM

If you have the resources, you should experiment with different spacer sizes to find the optimum length. I'd be curious to see the different outcomes.

And then run them all on the dyno, on the same day so there is no discrepancy between the variables.

Sorry, I don't have the time or the resources. :redface:

This is just a hobby I do on the side in my free time off of work. Dyno time gets really expensive when your car is on the machine and you're trying to swap out parts. Adding the cost for new CNC programming would make it unpractical to make a bunch of different sizes. Anyways you can simply extrapolate the difference as a one inch spacer would make half the torque as a two inch.

I picked 2 inches because that is the thickest spacer which will work without interfering with the engine peripherals like the oil dipstick tube. The two inch simply drops into place like it belongs there.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7701_zps87a877f2.jpg

Other intake manifold spacers sold like this one for a Toyota Tacoma V6 are usually only a half inch thick...

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/highaltitudeX/ToyotaIMS1.jpg

...while the tooter I.V is like stacking up FOUR of them. :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7696_zps464d3449.jpg

Greg

07stlYaris

02-04-2014, 05:42 PM

How about a 1/2" spacer for between the Blitz and the head? I haven't had a heat soak situation yet but this might be a pre-emptive strike. If possible, how much and how soon?

WeeYari

02-04-2014, 06:09 PM

^^

Sorry, I don't have the time or the resources. :redface:

tooter

02-04-2014, 06:23 PM

How about a 1/2" spacer for between the Blitz and the head? I haven't had a heat soak situation yet but this might be a pre-emptive strike. If possible, how much and how soon?

They're already available. You can get them from Garm at MicroImage.com. Two of them make about a half inch. :thumbsup:

http://shop.microimageonline.com/images/GE_thermal_gasket.jpg

tooter

02-04-2014, 06:39 PM

Got a selling price set yet? I couldn't spot mention of $$s in this thread.

When they're available they'll be offered for sale at $265 including shipping. The shop still has tooter II.VII Tacoma spacers in the works so the I.V's will be machined once they're completed.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7698_zps8f973d84.jpg

Greg

Silver Streak

02-04-2014, 11:10 PM

Bummer great mod, but out of my price range right now. I'm curious Tooter, what do you think the spacer would yield on a bone stock Yaris?

Viperoni

02-04-2014, 11:15 PM

For just an intake manifold spacer, these are awesome gains!

tooter

02-05-2014, 12:45 AM

Bummer great mod, but out of my price range right now. I'm curious Tooter, what do you think the spacer would yield on a bone stock Yaris?

From the dyno tests I've seen, a stock Yaris makes about 91 horsepower and 91 foot pounds of torque at the wheels.

So extrapolating the results I got with my engine, the spacer would only make about 92 horsepower and 94 foot pounds of torque.

Note on the graph that the peak values for both hardly go up at all with the spacer. The biggest difference is in the profile of the torque curve, and that the torque peak is reached 450 rpm sooner.

tooter

02-05-2014, 12:57 AM

For just an intake manifold spacer, these are awesome gains!

It's not so much the peak gains themselves as they're actually quite small, it's more how they're distributed in particular the torque. I was really happy with the results on my Tacoma, and the Yaris turned out even better than the truck. :smile:

Greg

tooter

02-05-2014, 01:55 AM

In the meantime, can you source a shipping quote to L0P 1K0 Ontario, Canada? Preferably USPS.

Sure. The spacer and hardware will fit into a USPS international medium flat rate box which is $42.25. That same box ships domestically for $12.35, so the additional shipping cost to Canada would be $30.

Greg

marcus

02-05-2014, 11:19 AM

tooter just curious if theres an issue with the stock airfilter box moving 2 inch forward?

WeeYari

02-05-2014, 01:04 PM

Sorry Greg, that came in higher than I thought it would. I do applaud the results of your insatiable curiosity.

Look forward to seeing what you dream up next.

tooter

02-05-2014, 01:26 PM

tooter just curious if theres an issue with the stock airfilter box moving 2 inch forward?

I don't know because I run a short ram that just moves along with wherever stock throttle body is. The stock rubber hose is pretty flexible, but I don't know if it will offset 2 inches.

I do know the lines that circulate coolant through the base of the throttle body will be too short. So I simply connected them to each other using a short scrap of tubing as a coupling.

Greg

cali yaris

02-05-2014, 01:35 PM

The spacer and hardware will fit into a USPS international medium flat rate box which is $42.25. T

No need for the extra expense of a flat rate box. 2 pounds (guessing) to Canada is $28.

tooter

02-05-2014, 02:07 PM

Thanks Garm. :smile:

Then it's $16 extra to ship to Canada.

I posted a thread in the For Sale section where anyone can add their name if they're interested.

Greg

marcus

02-05-2014, 06:05 PM

i was hoping itll be under $200 shipped.. but it is definetely something to think about..

BEEF

02-05-2014, 09:20 PM

tooter

02-06-2014, 01:38 AM

My thing was that tooter usually makes short runs of products. I was thinking of doing this later on but the issue is they may not be available so I am going ahead and biting the bullet.

I guess that is the thing with specialized products. I joined after the Piggies short throw shifter was long gone so I had to wait for garm to come out with his. Waiting about killed me so I am a little more apt to jump on something if I know quantity is limited.

Demand for a product like this is slight because the market is paper thin and quickly saturated. So I only make short runs. I'm just happy to have the prototypes for my own use, and sell a few more to cover all of the design, prototype machining, dyno testing, raw materials, production, mounting hardware and gaskets, and shipping costs. So far I've been able to break even on both the tooter intake manifolds and the tooter II.VII spacers. So now I'm recycling the same startup money into the tooter I.V spacer project. :smile:

Greg

ezhacker1

02-06-2014, 06:09 AM

I do know the lines that circulate coolant through the base of the throttle body will be too short. So I simply connected them to each other using a short scrap of tubing as a coupling.

Greg

Bypassing the coolant flow through the throttle body, probably marginal lower intake air temp.

Guess i should get this spacer rather than a exhaust header, more practical to have the same torque at lower rpms (everyday driving RPM).

My guess is Id save a little gas by being able to be in 5th doing 25mph in Residential area. Also probably can stay in 5th and still have passing torque on freeway.

**So this spacer moves the same profile curve to the left. And the tooter manifold with 1ZZ TB just gives higher max numbers. Between those two, the spacer is better for a normal day to day use car?

tooter

02-06-2014, 01:01 PM

i was hoping itll be under $200 shipped.. but it is definetely something to think about..

Sorry man... it's extremely expensive to design, test, and manufacture small amounts of highly specialized parts. So everyone gets to weigh the cost to benefit ratio and decides for themselves.

Greg

marcus

02-06-2014, 01:08 PM

Sorry man... it's extremely expensive to design, test, and manufacture small amounts of highly specialized parts. So everyone gets to weigh the cost to benefit ratio and decides for themselves.

Greg

dont apologize ..no worries i kinna understand the whole process..

tooter

02-06-2014, 01:16 PM

Bypassing the coolant flow through the throttle body, probably marginal lower intake air temp.

Guess i should get this spacer rather than a exhaust header, more practical to have the same torque at lower rpms (everyday driving RPM).

I don't know... that TRD header in the For Sale section is a really good deal . And from looking at it's design with the slightly longer runners, it would also add bottom end torque. I just don't know how much.

My guess is Id save a little gas by being able to be in 4th doing 25mph in Residential area. Also probably can stay in 5th and still have passing torque on freeway.
The spacer makes it easy to short shift at 2,000 rpm around town without lugging the engine. It's also really easy to take off from a standing start without a lot of clutch slipping or revs. It generally makes normal everyday driving more pleasant.

Now that the ECU has settled in and the car is all gassed up, I'm ready to log some mileage readings. I'll let you know the results, for better or for worse.

**So this spacer moves the same profile curve to the left. And the tooter manifold with 1ZZ TB just gives higher max numbers. Between those two, the spacer is better for a normal day to day use car? For regular transportation driving... the tooter I.V spacer beats the hell out of the tooter manifold! :laugh:

I'm going to experiment with the tooter et manifold by taking off the top of the plenum, and see if I can lengthen the runners from the inside. :wink:

Greg

RJay

02-06-2014, 03:08 PM

Those are quite spectacular g ains, very nice! :)

malibuguy

02-06-2014, 11:19 PM

I may just have to get this...trade for my tooter? My car is DD more then race car ;)

tooter

02-07-2014, 02:16 AM

I may just have to get this...trade for my tooter? My car is DD more then race car ;)

Sure, man. :smile:

I'll swap you straight across for a spacer as long as the tooter kit is unused. I'll pay the shipping to you if you pay the shipping to me. I have a Corolla manifold sitting in my shop that I need to build, and it'll save the CNC engineer the time to make another set. :thumbsup:

Greg

teoek9

03-02-2014, 06:14 PM

How can I get one of those tooter adapter.

WeeYari

03-02-2014, 06:19 PM

How can I get one of those tooter adapter.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=728780&postcount=38

JustDidIt

03-07-2014, 07:40 PM

Here's the prototype on the manifold...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7696_zps464d3449.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7698_zps8f973d84.jpg

Greg

The tooters are done... :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7765_zpsd9f0c9bf.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7767_zps996f4a4d.jpg

$265 including shipping

Greg

I'm really thinking about pulling the trigger on this and trying it on my 1NZ-FXE.. Should bolt right up.

tooter

03-07-2014, 08:45 PM

I'm really thinking about pulling the trigger on this and trying it on my 1NZ-FXE.. Should bolt right up.

If your intake manifold looks like this...

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTyPe3-U6FImKPeVYnbyuBKDObc98PSWHJ-znjRsmk0VFA1eIJ

I have no idea as to the spacer's effect on your engine... :confused:

However, it would be an interesting experiment because you have an Atkinson cycle engine and not an Otto. You'd also need at least 3 inches of free space in front of the intake manifold for the spacer to fit. From the drastically shallow design of that manifold it looks like free space might be at a premium. But I don't know your under the hood situation. Can you post a pic of the space in front of your intake manifold? Then you can go from there. Don't get one without first finding out if it would even fit.

Greg

CrankyOldMan

03-07-2014, 10:25 PM

I'm really thinking about pulling the trigger on this and trying it on my 1NZ-FXE.. Should bolt right up.

DOOOO EEEET! Dyno runs or it didn't happen!

tooter

03-08-2014, 11:52 AM

The only issue I can see is that very strange 1-2-4 (opposite of a 4-2-1 tri y exhaust manifold) intake manifold is specifically designed for an Atkinson cycle engine and is tuned for a very specific optimal rpm range. So an intake manifold spacer lengthening those extremely short intake runners is likely to push the curve outside that range. While there's a chance it might make it better, there's a greater chance of making it worse.

Greg

jetblast

03-08-2014, 02:01 PM

First off, thanks to Greg and Garm for all the fun stuff for these engines. Wondering about matching a spacer up with my dated Weapon R manifold. Greg, even if Malibu Guy's Tooter is used I might be interested. I also have a spare Corolla manifold that I've been meaning to "Tooterfy" so either way.

Thanks, Ken

malibuguy

03-09-2014, 01:05 AM

Mine isnt used but it is...if that makes any sense

tooter

03-09-2014, 01:11 AM

Mine isnt used but it is...if that makes any sense

The last tooter I sold on ebay was listed in the category of "remanufactured" because it was a combination of old and new parts that were made into different product.

Greg

dragoonmc

03-09-2014, 11:28 PM

If this spacer is a hit I think someone needs to make a replacement engine cover to go with it

JustDidIt

03-11-2014, 05:50 PM

If your intake manifold looks like this...

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTyPe3-U6FImKPeVYnbyuBKDObc98PSWHJ-znjRsmk0VFA1eIJ

I have no idea as to the spacer's effect on your engine... :confused:

However, it would be an interesting experiment because you have an Atkinson cycle engine and not an Otto. You'd also need at least 3 inches of free space in front of the intake manifold for the spacer to fit. From the drastically shallow design of that manifold it looks like free space might be at a premium. But I don't know your under the hood situation. Can you post a pic of the space in front of your intake manifold? Then you can go from there. Don't get one without first finding out if it would even fit.

Greg

My 1NZ-FXE
http://priuschat.com/attachments/nhw20_intake_11-jpg.60326/

tooter

03-11-2014, 10:16 PM

My 1NZ-FXE
http://priuschat.com/attachments/nhw20_intake_11-jpg.60326/

Hey wait a minute... that intake doesn't look stock. :wink: Did you make a custom CAI for it?

There's an experiment you can try...
Unbolt the 5 bolts holding the intake manifold, yank all the hoses and put them out of the way, and then measure how far away from the head you can pull the manifold before anything hits the plastic reservoir of anything else in front of the engine. That will let you know whether or not a spacer will work. To me it looks tight in there, but it's hard to tell from pics. You'd know better than anyone else because you're right there. :smile:

Greg

dumbo0

03-22-2014, 06:51 PM

Any update on the mileage?

Kaotic Lazagna

03-25-2014, 02:53 PM

Any update on the mileage?

I filled up once so far after installing the Tooter spacer. You can track my mileage here:

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/07vios/yaris

So far, a slight increase in mpg. A bit too early to tell though.

Kaotic Lazagna

03-25-2014, 10:27 PM

Just filled up this morning, however it's missing about 30 miles of city driving. So my last two fill up's are with the Tooter spacer.

tooter

03-26-2014, 01:07 PM

Kaotic Lazagna

03-31-2014, 11:01 AM

Thanks, Laz, for posting your gas mileage results. They're more credible coming from you than from me. :wink:
It took a while for me to find out that the spacer allows the engine to operate just fine at lower rpms (1,000rpm to 2,000rpm) without any strain or lugging...

...even though my wife still revs it up. :wink:

Greg

No problem. So far, three tanks with the spacer on now. Something to keep in mind is I don't know if my local Chevron has switched back to summer blend or not. But if comparing to around the same time last year, it's a 2-3 mpg increase.

3/22/13, 318.8 miles, 7.92 gallons, 40.2 mpg, $4.060

vs

3/20/14, 340.9 miles, 8.06 gallons, 42.3 mpg, $3.940
3/25/14 313.0 miles, 7.17 gallons, 43.7 mpg, $3.940

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/07vios/yaris (same link)

malibuguy

04-03-2014, 12:38 AM

Im pulling together to get some funds set aside for this. Just dropped my trans off for the Malibu to get rebuilt, sent the cam and lifters to get WPC treated as well. Too many projects!

tooter

04-03-2014, 09:39 PM

No problem. So far, three tanks with the spacer on now. Something to keep in mind is I don't know if my local Chevron has switched back to summer blend or not. But if comparing to around the same time last year, it's a 2-3 mpg increase.

3/22/13, 318.8 miles, 7.92 gallons, 40.2 mpg, $4.060

vs

3/20/14, 340.9 miles, 8.06 gallons, 42.3 mpg, $3.940
3/25/14 313.0 miles, 7.17 gallons, 43.7 mpg, $3.940

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/07vios/yaris (same link)

See if you can find out exactly when they make the change to Summer blend, so that you'll know whether or not the increase is the blend or the spacer. That will insure producing accurate results.:thumbsup:

Greg

tooter

04-03-2014, 09:43 PM

Im pulling together to get some funds set aside for this. Just dropped my trans off for the Malibu to get rebuilt, sent the cam and lifters to get WPC treated as well. Too many projects!

It's ok, Malibu... :smile:
There are still two available from this production run. And if there is still any interest after this run sells out, I can always have another run machined. :thumbsup:

Greg

Kaotic Lazagna

04-04-2014, 12:34 AM

See if you can find out exactly when they make the change to Summer blend, so that you'll know whether or not the increase is the blend or the spacer. That will insure producing accurate results.:thumbsup:

Greg

I'll try to remember to ask tomorrow when I fill up. :laugh:

Kaotic Lazagna

04-08-2014, 03:12 AM

My local Chevron said they switched to summer blend, but didn't say when they did.

tooter

04-08-2014, 11:28 AM

My local Chevron said they switched to summer blend, but didn't say when they did.

That makes sense. My mileage has been better lately but I don't date my fillups. Same with my motorcycle. It goes over 70 mpg on Summer blend, and the last couple of fillups have all been 70+.

Greg

tooter

06-11-2014, 01:14 PM

I'm down to the last spacer now... :smile:

DJYojimbo

06-11-2014, 06:13 PM

I'm down to the last spacer now... :smile:

Greg, is there anyway you can hold the last one for me? I'm just waiting to finish my clinicals and waiting for the hospital to hire me which is very soon! anyway i can put a down payment?

tooter

06-11-2014, 10:22 PM

Greg, is there anyway you can hold the last one for me? I'm just waiting to finish my clinicals and waiting for the hospital to hire me which is very soon! anyway i can put a down payment?

Don't worry, man... :smile:
Even if the last one sells out before you're ready to buy, I should be able to have a few more made within a month or so. The worst that could happen is that you might need to wait for just a little while.

Greg

DJYojimbo

06-12-2014, 12:29 AM

Greg you are the man!!!! Once my first big check from the hospital arrives, i'm using it to buy a tooter!!!

DJYojimbo

06-12-2014, 12:29 AM

i think i'm going to buy this and the trd rear sway bar and hold off on the dc sports header haha!

DJYojimbo

06-12-2014, 12:32 AM

is anybody using this tooter spacer with an automatic tranny?

tooter

06-12-2014, 02:57 AM

is anybody using this tooter spacer with an automatic tranny?

The one that shipped today is going to a guy with an auto. So as far as I know, he'll be the first to experiment with it. My best guess is that an auto trans will shift at slightly lower rpms because the stronger intake manifold vacuum signal will indicate less engine load, but I have no idea exactly what will happen. With my manual it easily short shifts at 2,000 rpms, and pulls in the next higher gear from under 2,000 without lugging the engine. That helps the gas mileage not needing to rev the engine as much in normal driving. Now if I could just get my wife not to rev the engine so much! :laugh:

Greg

j-san

06-12-2014, 09:05 AM

That would be me. Unfortunately, my Yaris lacks a tach, but I do have a ScanGaugeII. I'll try to see if I can't keep track of when the tranny shifts and compare that to after the spacer install. I'm hoping the tranny will keep up with any torque gains lower in the RPM range and shift accordingly. I hope this mod would end up giving me a little more low end power and squeeze out another MPG or two. I'll post up my findings after driving around with it a little.

tooter

06-12-2014, 12:33 PM

You might be able to tell any difference of when the transmission shifts by feel. You already kind of know when it's going to shift according to how much you press on the gas pedal, and how much engine load there is such as grades. Gas mileage is a good indicator as it's sensitive enough to respond to more subtle factors.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens as this is uncharted waters. So if after driving with the spacer you feel that the benefits aren't worth the cost, please feel free to return it undamaged and I'll be happy give you your money back. :smile:

Greg

j-san

06-12-2014, 03:48 PM

That is very generous of you, Greg! I guess we will see how it goes and I hope my experiment with it will be of some use to you. Wish I had a manual tranny, but the wife just doesn't want to learn how to drive one...

tooter

06-13-2014, 02:59 AM

I'm still trying to get my wife to rev the engine less so we can get better gas mileage. It's a lost cause. :laugh:

Greg

j-san

06-29-2014, 12:40 PM

Finally got the Tooter spacer installed today. Took me a while to get the time needed to do the install and I had to do a couple runs to the hardware shop for some tools. All together, the install was fairly straightforward and simple. I had to lengthen a couple hoses, but the other hoses seemed to have enough slack to make the move. I used the stock airbox without any issues. Greg has an excellent kit put together and the spacer is very well made - a perfect fit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/j3san/IMG_20140629_083821.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/j3san/media/IMG_20140629_083821.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/j3san/IMG_20140629_090826.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/j3san/media/IMG_20140629_090826.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/j3san/IMG_20140629_093312.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/j3san/media/IMG_20140629_093312.jpg.html)

I let the battery remain disconnected during the install, which took about an hour. I had to remove the bolts that hold the coolant fill cap section to the throttle body and offset it in order to make the move. I was able to reconnect the fill cap section to the original mount using just one screw and made sure nothing was rubbing the hoses.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/j3san/IMG_20140629_093322.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/j3san/media/IMG_20140629_093322.jpg.html)

With the decorative engine cover back on, it looks virtually stock - especially with the stock airbox. Despite being only held on with 2 screws instead of the usual 4, the cover didn't rattle and the front edge was actually supported by the flange of the intake manifold.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/j3san/IMG_20140629_093301.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/j3san/media/IMG_20140629_093301.jpg.html)

Driving the car after the install was pretty much the same as before. I have an auto tranny and there were a few instances where the shifts came late at lower rpms. The tranny hung in the gear a little longer than what seemed like usual, but it stopped doing that after I got out of the residential roads and started going 50mph. I did not notice any change in how the car drove. I did test out the acceleration on highway onramps at WOT and it almost seemed like the car got up to highways speeds a tad faster than before, but then again, it could be the placebo effect taking hold. No info on fuel mileage yet since this is the first drive with it, but I can update this thread with my MPG with auto tranny once I have a few fill-ups done.

tooter

06-30-2014, 03:24 AM

It might take a few cold start cycles for the ECU to relearn the new operating properties. On the dyno, the spacer lowered the torque peak from 4,100 rpm to 3,700 rpm, which is a difference of a little under 10%.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/beforeandafterspacer2_zps6a51b60b.jpg

Without a tachometer that might be more difficult to detect, especially with the transmission torque converter fluid coupling compensating for the engine load. Let me know your driving impressions and gas mileage after driving it around for a while. :)

Greg

j-san

07-01-2014, 10:23 AM

Greg, I believe you mentioned the Weapon-R header you have also helped lower the torque curve a few hundred RPMs as well. I also recall you have a Magnaflow custom exhaust as well?

I am thinking of a header being the next mod. Looking at either the DC Sports or Weapon-R. Whichever header will help lower the torque curve further would be preferred. I have the JDM TRD muffler, but I don't think that contributes much for low end torque. A mechanic friend told me the issue with small engines and exhaust pipe diameter isn't an issue of backpressure, but that of exhaust gas velocity. Smaller pipes allow for higher gas velocity, which then improves the scavenging ability of the passing pressure wave, and helps low end torque. Larger pipes reduce the gas velocity, but allow for greater flow volume, which can improve high-end HP. Makes sense to me.

I just wonder if the mods are somewhat of a wasted effort with the auto tranny. Like you said about the fluid coupling, I would bet the tranny is responsible for a reduction in effectiveness. Still, the mods are fun to do and I enjoy getting under the car or hood and learning more about the workings of the Yaris.

I put about 35 miles on the spacer since install. I did notice the tranny doesn't downshift as readily while trying to accelerate on the on-ramp to highway speeds. Surprisingly, I am able to get a up to speed even in 3rd gear and not have to either force the tranny into 2nd or mash the gas pedal. Hope it gets better with more miles.

tooter

07-01-2014, 05:02 PM

Greg, I believe you mentioned the Weapon-R header you have also helped lower the torque curve a few hundred RPMs as well. I also recall you have a Magnaflow custom exhaust as well?

Wow... you just brought up an interesting point that I hadn't even considered. :eek:

The stated peak torque of a factory stock Yaris engine is 4,200 rpms.

Both dyno runs on that chart were done with the Weapon R exhaust header and the Micro Image Magnaflow center exhaust.

The peak torque on the run without the spacer is 4,100 rpm. So that means the header lowered the torque 100 rpms while the spacer lowered the peak by 400rpms. The two together produced the 3,700 rpm torque peak, 500 rpms lower than the stock peak.

I believe the 100 rpms are because there is such a short space in which to fit a header and yet retain the original position of the rest of the exhaust. So the tubes simply aren't long enough to make much difference.

On my Tacoma, I put a long tube header that uses folded runners to fit into the same space as the factory stock short tube header...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_6923_zps97f11a1e.jpg

...and it lowered the torque peak by 650 rpms because there was enough room to pack long runners into a short space.

I am thinking of a header being the next mod. Looking at either the DC Sports or Weapon-R. Whichever header will help lower the torque curve further would be preferred.

From the dyno results you can know that the Weapon R is good to lower the peak 100 rpms. There's no way of knowing about the other headers, because I don't believe that anyone has ever tested them.

I have the JDM TRD muffler, but I don't think that contributes much for low end torque. A mechanic friend told me the issue with small engines and exhaust pipe diameter isn't an issue of backpressure, but that of exhaust gas velocity. Smaller pipes allow for higher gas velocity, which then improves the scavenging ability of the passing pressure wave, and helps low end torque. Larger pipes reduce the gas velocity, but allow for greater flow volume, which can improve high-end HP. Makes sense to me.

You're spot on. Axle backs can help performance without reducing the low end torque because the factory cat, tuned resonators, and the small diameter midpipe all work together to retain exhaust velocity.

I just wonder if the mods are somewhat of a wasted effort with the auto tranny. Like you said about the fluid coupling, I would bet the tranny is responsible for a reduction in effectiveness. Still, the mods are fun to do and I enjoy getting under the car or hood and learning more about the workings of the Yaris.

Yeah, because the fluid coupling is constantly altering the drive ratio to compensate for engine load, it muffles your perception of the effects. However, they're still there.

I put about 35 miles on the spacer since install. I did notice the tranny doesn't downshift as readily while trying to accelerate on the on-ramp to highway speeds. Surprisingly, I am able to get a up to speed even in 3rd gear and not have to either force the tranny into 2nd or mash the gas pedal. Hope it gets better with more miles.

That is an effect you can perceive. With slightly more torque, the transmission automatically shifts in to a higher gear sooner because it senses the engine is able to pull in that higher gear.

One major sensing element of engine load is intake manifold vacuum, which is a function of how hard the gas pedal is being pressed. When an engine produces more torque at lower rpms, the gas pedal is pressed slightly less, and the intake manifold vacuum is slightly higher. When a certain threshold of intake manifold vacuum is reached sooner, the transmission is signaled to shift to a higher gear sooner. That's what you're feeling. :smile:

Greg

j-san

07-02-2014, 09:12 AM

Kaotic Lazagna

07-02-2014, 02:35 PM

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris/2007/07Vios/183168

Before I traded Vios in. I installed the Tooter spacer on entry 46. As you can see, every tank after that saw an increase of 2-3 mpg.

tooter

07-02-2014, 11:15 PM

There is a slight power increase in the mid-3000RPM range. I kept an eye on the Scangauge whenever I was accelerating on the on-ramp and the car maintained a 3rd gear constant acceleration that was decent. I drive a regular route to work and back and frequently have to force the tranny into 2nd just to get an appreciable increase in speed.

For this first this first tank, it seems to be right in the norm for mileage. I usually get about 95 miles before the first bar in the gauge disappears. With the spacer on, I got 98. I usually go till the pump auto-stops for a consistent fill-up. I'm not expecting massive gains here, especially for the first tank, but we will see.

I wonder if a dyno sheet for an auto tranny would look much different from yours, Greg? I think you said your dyno run was done by putting the car in 3rd and then mashing the gas pedal?

Yes, an auto trans dyno run would be different because when you mash the pedal the transmission kicks down to a lower gear. So the run would always begin recording at way higher rpms.

It might just be a coincidence, but making the runners 10% longer yielded a 10% lower torque peak. Although it's highly likely that relationship would break down pretty rapidly if continued.

Our mileage gets shot to hell because my wife drives the car, but when I drive it's easy to short shift at 2,000rpms without straining or lugging the engine.

Greg

tooter

07-02-2014, 11:24 PM

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris/2007/07Vios/183168

Before I traded Vios in. I installed the Tooter spacer on entry 46. As you can see, every tank after that saw an increase of 2-3 mpg.

That's pretty impressive... :smile:
I did get to drive with the spacer when we took a trip and my best mileage was 42.1 mpg at 65-75 mph on the interstate. But just driving around town with no freeway, my wife has only been averaging 37.5 mpg.

Greg

j-san

07-07-2014, 11:51 PM

Hey Greg,

I know you run a short ram intake with cone filter. Did you have to do any mods to get that to work with the Tooter manifold or the spacer? I'm considering an intake like the AFE or maybe the K&N Typhoon. I doubt it would make serious gains, but I'm more curious about it improving MPG and perhaps a little performance increase.

On the other hand, I've also read that the stock intakes are engineered to deliver more flow than the engine could ever use and they also maintain a standing volume of still air within the box, ready to be sucked into the engine. Perhaps I should just look into a higher flow filter that fits the stock air box and go with that?

tooter

07-09-2014, 01:13 AM

Hey Greg,

I know you run a short ram intake with cone filter. Did you have to do any mods to get that to work with the Tooter manifold or the spacer?

Just cutting the tube short so that I could fit the oversized BLOX velocity stack filter under the hood. The nice thing about an SRI is that it can easily be moved right along with the throttle body when it's relocated by the spacer.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7701_zps87a877f2.jpg

When the engine is running at low rpms, any intake is underutilized, even the stock air box. I put a mini velocity stack on mine when I ran it. :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_5956.jpg

I'm considering an intake like the AFE or maybe the K&N Typhoon. I doubt it would make serious gains, but I'm more curious about it improving MPG and perhaps a little performance increase.[/quote]

They do make a nice sound... but that's about it. :wink:

On the other hand, I've also read that the stock intakes are engineered to deliver more flow than the engine could ever use and they also maintain a standing volume of still air within the box, ready to be sucked into the engine. Perhaps I should just look into a higher flow filter that fits the stock air box and go with that?

I tried all sorts of intakes, and none of them really made much difference when compared to manifolds, spacers, throttle bodies, headers, and exhausts.

Greg

dragoonmc

07-18-2014, 09:40 PM

Hey all,
So my install of this spacer was on an auto trans.
I found that it actually hurt my mileage even after it re learned its stuff.
I had about a 2 mpg drop from last summer so i took it off and the mpg came back up to match last year

tooter

07-19-2014, 01:07 AM

Kaotic Lazagna

07-19-2014, 03:03 AM

tooter

07-19-2014, 02:04 PM

That would very likely cause the ECU to throw a code.

I know this by personal experience because at the time I installed the prototype, the new gaskets hadn't come in yet. I was really anxious to run it and used an old gasket that was laying around. It triggered a fuel trim code because it leaked.

There's something else going on that we don't know about. But I won't argue with the guy. If he's not happy with his gas mileage and feels the spacer is the cause, he gets his money back.

Greg

Slitwrist Smile

07-21-2014, 03:46 PM

Do you realize that the spacer can't alter your air/fuel ratio? :wink:

It just makes the intake runners longer. So it's obvious that there is something else going on besides the spacer.

But if you're not satisfied and feel that it is to blame for your gas mileage, simply return it undamaged with its gasket and all of the hardware and I'll refund your money. :smile:

Toot - you may want to remove your address for privacy reasons. Just trying to look out for the well being of forum members. Everyone on here might be a good person, but outside of YW, you don't know what scammers might try to do. You might want to edit your post (i removed the address from the quote I am posting) and PM it to the user it was intended for.

j-san

07-21-2014, 04:06 PM

I've now put a few tanks through my Yaris with the Tooter spacer. I did not notice any significant change in MPG. One tank was worse by about 1.8MPG and two tanks were better, one by 0.4MPG and the second by 1.1MPG. I think it has more to do with the variations in traffic and how heavy my foot is than the spacer. Sometimes I am running late and need to get moving faster and other days I am early and take my time accelerating and do more coasting. I imagine the ECU has learned what it needs with the spacer in place. I cannot feel any difference in daily driving, but it just seems like the tranny is more hesitant to downshift than before. I would understand that to mean the engine is probably pulling with a little more torque and thus, feels it does not need to downshift unless I force it or mash the pedal. I guess I still need to run more tanks to see if there is a greater change in MPG beyond the standard deviation. So far, everything runs as it should.

tooter

07-24-2014, 03:09 AM

Toot - you may want to remove your address for privacy reasons. Just trying to look out for the well being of forum members. Everyone on here might be a good person, but outside of YW, you don't know what scammers might try to do. You might want to edit your post (i removed the address from the quote I am posting) and PM it to the user it was intended for.

Thanks for your concern. :smile:

I've been posting my name and address for years and have never had any problems being a public business . No one can scam me anyways. :wink:

Greg

ezhacker1

07-30-2014, 10:22 PM

I was able to install the spacer and keep the heat shield on the AFE intake.

Did an initial test 6 mile test run city/hwy after ECU reset just to make sure car runs fine.

1. Idle warmed up RPM is lowered ~25rpm from 620 to 595.
2. Blipping the throttle is sensitive, like having the throttle controller on.
3. Letting the engine lug the car forward is much stronger. Sure the car is shaking but works stronger on my slight inclined driveway.
4. Although idle RPM is lowered, fuel consumption/hour hasn't changed, still 0.125/HR

Manual Transmission
Related Mods: AFE Intake, DC Sports axle back

tooter

07-31-2014, 12:46 PM

3. Letting the engine lug the car forward is much stronger. Sure the car is shaking but works stronger on my slight inclined driveway.

I call that the "tractor effect". If you've ever driven a tractor, the engine does exactly the same thing... the high torque low rpm engines vibrate harmonically as they pull because the time between each power stroke is so long. We have a steep driveway that I measured with an inclinometer at 10%. I have fun going up it in my truck at below idle 500rpm. It just vibrates right up the hill like a tractor without lugging or bucking.

This is one of the strange attributes of the intake manifold spacer that doesn't show up on the dyno runs because it's "below the radar".

Off idle partial throttle performance is superb. If you have a manual transmission there's less clutch slipping needed just to get the car moving.

Greg

ezhacker1

07-31-2014, 08:34 PM

Yup, agree to all. I re-edit my previous post to fix error. I meant to say RPM was lowered but fuel consumption hasnt changed still 0.125/hr.

Doing the install did give me a chance to see how clean the intake valves were, there's some light oil that a catch can would take care of.

Edit:
After driving today looks like ecu is learning. Idle fuel consumption warmed up is now 0.116 gal/hr and subsequent using a catch can lowers it do 0.106 gal/hr.

Edit 2:
So i was stuck in stop and go traffic, and was able to use 2nd gear to keep the car crawling forward using no throttle at all, as long as i was not completely stopped. / 5th gear hill climb on a particular hwy of mine is also doable now, I normally have to go down to 4th. These two things helped me get 49 mpg on a 14.4 mile run, where 41% was city and 3 miles were that stop/go traffic.