Chipped Keys

[bronsin]

How much is a chipped key to replace? The key to my wifes 05 Camry (109k miles) is completely worn out. The drivers door keyslot is also about 30 degees from vertical. Does anyone know what this means? The spare keys all work but not in the drivers door.

Anyway she wanted a chipped key when she bought the car but I said "Trust me, you do NOT want a chipped key!" :headbang:

So....how much can I tell her I saved us? :iono:

Also, what problems are we looking at down the line since the locks have been operated with a worn out key? Will we need a new ignition switch for instance?

Against my advice my wife always locks her car even in places it doesnt need to be locked. Now her drivers door lock is trashed!

If they would only LISTEN! (but they dont!)

[CTScott]

You can buy the chipped blanks for $10 and have them cut any place, but Toyota will hit you with a charge to make the ECM "learn" the new key.

[bronsin]

$59 for the hardware store to cut a chipped key here in NJ.

Does that include programming?

[JustPassinThru]

How much is a chipped key to replace? The key to my wifes 05 Camry (109k miles) is completely worn out. The drivers door keyslot is also about 30 degees from vertical. Does anyone know what this means? The spare keys all work but not in the drivers door.

Anyway she wanted a chipped key when she bought the car but I said "Trust me, you do NOT want a chipped key!" :headbang:

So....how much can I tell her I saved us? :iono:

Also, what problems are we looking at down the line since the locks have been operated with a worn out key? Will we need a new ignition switch for instance?

Against my advice my wife always locks her car even in places it doesnt need to be locked. Now her drivers door lock is trashed!

If they would only LISTEN! (but they dont!)

Trust me, you do not want a chipped key.

In fact...I leave a key in one of the coin trays to work the ignition. So many times I'd locked my keys inside the car, over the years...now with theft-resistance systems, it's harder to force your way in. Harder and more expensive to have someone do it - cops don't open doors anymore and a Slim Jim won't do it.

So, I keep my key ring on a hook on my belt; and I leave an ignition key in the change slot. It's out of site of casual viewers. Once in the car, I just grab it and use it.

My 2009 had a chipped key and a keyless fob on the head of the key. Every TIME I'd bend down to do something, it would lock or unlock or trip the alarm on the car. EVERY time.

The 2012 I have has no chip and no keyless entry. I'm liking it.

Theft? Not likely. This is not a highly-desired car, not as a car and not for parts. And if by chance it IS stolen...that's why I have insurance.

And the cops don't need to know about where I keep a key.

[bronsin]

Outstanding! I couldnt have said it better myself!

This is big business giving us expensive "solutions" to problems that dont exist. Naturally, they make huge profits from these expensive gimmicks like electric windows, central locking power mirrors (Ive had to adjust my non adjustable mirrors maybe three times in five years) and auto matic transmissions.

My 2001 Toyota ECHO was $13,100 out the door. Whats a 2014 Yaris going for these days? 20 grand?

Oh and my 1980 Subaru Hatchback was $4600 tax and everything. Tell me you wouldnt drive a brand new one of those for $4600 if you could get it.

[CTScott]

Trust me, you do not want a chipped key.

In fact...I leave a key in one of the coin trays to work the ignition. So many times I'd locked my keys inside the car, over the years...now with theft-resistance systems, it's harder to force your way in. Harder and more expensive to have someone do it - cops don't open doors anymore and a Slim Jim won't do it.

So, I keep my key ring on a hook on my belt; and I leave an ignition key in the change slot. It's out of site of casual viewers. Once in the car, I just grab it and use it.

My 2009 had a chipped key and a keyless fob on the head of the key. Every TIME I'd bend down to do something, it would lock or unlock or trip the alarm on the car. EVERY time.

The 2012 I have has no chip and no keyless entry. I'm liking it.

Theft? Not likely. This is not a highly-desired car, not as a car and not for parts. And if by chance it IS stolen...that's why I have insurance.

And the cops don't need to know about where I keep a key.

Your 2012 definitely has a chipped key. It is standard on all 09 and newer Yaris.

[JustPassinThru]

Your 2012 definitely has a chipped key. It is standard on all 09 and newer Yaris.

Beg to differ.

I've replaced keys. It's not chipped.

[CTScott]

Beg to differ.

I've replaced keys. It's not chipped.


OK. I do see in the EPC that the 3rd gen shows an optional non-transponder key and ignition switch. On the 2nd gens all 09-11 US Yaris had it.

And, to top it off, looking at some pictures from a 2012 that I recently helped someone install cruise control on, I can see that his did not have the transponder key either, as the ignition switch body is all metal. If it had the transponder key only the center portion of the switch, which rotates, would be metal.

52544

[JustPassinThru]

Hmmm.

Mine was a stripper...a loss-leader for bait-and-switch they were selling at the end of the model year. Even had manual windows and mirrors. I had an independent shop put in cruise control; and the owner told me it was a simple job since all the wiring harnesses were right there. Just install the stalk and plug it in; and install some other bits and pieces, and it was done.

But, as I say, no chipped keys.

[dj92]

Wasn't there a method to learn the key without a programmer?
Have a look at the manuals linked somewhere around here...

[CTScott]

Wasn't there a method to learn the key without a programmer?
Have a look at the manuals linked somewhere around here...

I think that only the initial registration (with not keys yet programmed) can be done without the techstream. Registration of additional keys to a programmed system requires techstream.

[dj92]

Are you sure?
Have a look at page 12
Engine Immobilizer.pdf (http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/20892781/file.html)

I assume, master keys are those which can be cloned this way and sub-keys can't.
However, I think a car is delivered with at least one master key ;)

Edit: D'oh, it's no Yaris :(
Maybe it works whatsoever :D

[CTScott]

Are you sure?
Have a look at page 12
Engine Immobilizer.pdf (http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/20892781/file.html)

I assume, master keys are those which can be cloned this way and sub-keys can't.
However, I think a car is delivered with at least one master key ;)

Edit: D'oh, it's no Yaris :(
Maybe it works whatsoever :D

That's the procedure I was referring to. If you look the only section for "without the intelligent tester" is the new key with no keys registered mode.

[roxy1]

My 2001 Toyota ECHO was $13,100 out the door. Whats a 2014 Yaris going for these days? 20 grand?
.

???????

my 2014 was $15100 out the door. infinitely safer, quieter, and more stable. anyone paying $20K OTD for a Yaris needs to look themselves in the mirror and slap themselves...............HARD.

[tooter]

Hmmm.

Mine was a stripper...a loss-leader for bait-and-switch they were selling at the end of the model year. Even had manual windows and mirrors. I had an independent shop put in cruise control; and the owner told me it was a simple job since all the wiring harnesses were right there. Just install the stalk and plug it in; and install some other bits and pieces, and it was done.

But, as I say, no chipped keys.

Same here. :smile:
Stripped 2012 base model which was exactly what I wanted. Non electric key entry, hand crank windows, manual transmission.

[JustPassinThru]

???????

my 2014 was $15100 out the door. infinitely safer, quieter, and more stable. anyone paying $20K OTD for a Yaris needs to look themselves in the mirror and slap themselves...............HARD.

At $20,000 the Yaris doesn't make sense.

I'd considered, briefly, that smaller Prius derivative. $24,000. The gee-whiz technology was seductive; but I ran the numbers, and on gasoline savings alone, using $3.75 a gallon...I'd be about 90,000 miles breaking even.

If the Yaris had been priced to my wants at $20,000 - I'd have bought the other.

My stripper 2012 was $14,500 - almost the exact same price as my loaded 2009. The 2009 had everything - EXCEPT an auto transmission. The 2012 had ONLY the auto.

I'm okay with it. "Stripper" today is quite different than "stripper" 20 years ago. I have a 1996 Tercel stripper in the driveway to remind me of that.

[IllusionX]

I believe some states require all cars to have a chip key. At least, it is by law in Canada since 2008.

[bronsin]

???????

my 2014 was $15100 out the door. infinitely safer, quieter, and more stable. anyone paying $20K OTD for a Yaris needs to look themselves in the mirror and slap themselves...............HARD.

I live in NJ and the ones I have seen for sale on dealer lots (and there arent many) are around $16.5 before tax. Some are more.

I always include the tax when shopping for a car.

[JustPassinThru]

I believe some states require all cars to have a chip key. At least, it is by law in Canada since 2008.

It may be; although I can't understand the government's "compelling interest." This isn't a Lamborghini we're talking about.

And if someone wants a car badly enough, he doesn't need keys. A wrecker that lifts by the tires will do just fine. Most cars aren't stolen to drive, even as getaways - they're stolen to part out. So, use your wrecker to haul it away, chop and drop.

[The Limo 2]

My 2007 Yaris M.S.R.P was $19,835. I manage to talk the dealer down $800.00 since I purchased it at the end of July 2007 plus was paying cash. The Federal government gave me back $1000.00 for buying a fuel saving car. Total price to me $18035. So I guess I can still look in the mirror.
Roy

[nookandcrannycar]

I'd considered, briefly, that smaller Prius derivative. $24,000. The gee-whiz technology was seductive; but I ran the numbers, and on gasoline savings alone, using $3.75 a gallon...I'd be about 90,000 miles breaking even

The Prius C Four is $23,360 MSRP ( + the $810 destination = same as a Yaris), but the Prius C One is $19,080 MSRP (+ the destination charge). A sales tax difference (from the Yaris) would be another difference.

[nookandcrannycar]

It may be; although I can't understand the government's "compelling interest." This isn't a Lamborghini we're talking about.

And if someone wants a car badly enough, he doesn't need keys. A wrecker that lifts by the tires will do just fine. Most cars aren't stolen to drive, even as getaways - they're stolen to part out. So, use your wrecker to haul it away, chop and drop.

Yeah, that post was an eye roller to me. I love Canada, but that policy = too much government meddling IMO.

[dj92]

Well, where do you want to go if you steal a car in the US? :D
Mexico might be hard (or isn't it?)

In Europe, it's the east (from Poland to Russia), especially since the iron curtain has fallen, that's why it's mandatory in Germany since 1.1.1998 afaik

[nookandcrannycar]

This is big business giving us expensive "solutions" to problems that dont exist. Naturally, they make huge profits from these expensive gimmicks like electric windows, central locking power mirrors (Ive had to adjust my non adjustable mirrors maybe three times in five years) and auto matic transmissions.

Not to mention items used to track the driver (which I think is wrong):

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tacoma/99029-black-box-edr-in-tacoma/

There is a section in the Yaris owners manual that talks about a box that the owner is not supposed to remove. I can't remember if that passage relates to what the Tundra driver is writing about. I'll bet CTScott knows the answer.

[nookandcrannycar]

In Europe, it's the east (from Poland to Russia), especially since the iron curtain has fallen, that's why it's mandatory in Germany since 1.1.1998 afaik

What if the person paid cash for their car, doesn't carry what we call 'comp and collision', and therefore won't be making a claim to their insurance company. Why is it any of the government's business? If the answer is to aid the other person's insurance company (if you are not at fault), that is a real eye roller IMO.

Is full coverage insurance (comprehensive, collision, and liability) mandatory in Germany? If so, is it mandatory no matter the age of the car?

[IllusionX]

It may be; although I can't understand the government's "compelling interest." This isn't a Lamborghini we're talking about.

And if someone wants a car badly enough, he doesn't need keys. A wrecker that lifts by the tires will do just fine. Most cars aren't stolen to drive, even as getaways - they're stolen to part out. So, use your wrecker to haul it away, chop and drop.

Well, there IS a big issues with cars being stolen and exported. So, there are probably as many cars being stolen and then exported than parted out. This is where the gov't step in. They don't care if it is a luxury car or a econobox, they just generalize and have all cars have a chip key. Seriously, it doesn't bother me.

My 2007 Yaris M.S.R.P was $19,835. I manage to talk the dealer down $800.00 since I purchased it at the end of July 2007 plus was paying cash. The Federal government gave me back $1000.00 for buying a fuel saving car. Total price to me $18035. So I guess I can still look in the mirror.
Roy

My Sedan was around that price, but having purchased it in 2006, i was not eligible for the 1000$ rebate, so i paid something around 23400$ T&P and taxes included. Anyways, the whole point of trading in the echo was to have a fully loaded car.

[nookandcrannycar]

Well, there IS a big issues with cars being stolen and exported. So, there are probably as many cars being stolen and then exported than parted out. This is where the gov't step in. They don't care if it is a luxury car or a econobox, they just generalize and have all cars have a chip key. Seriously, it doesn't bother me.

I still don't see what (as JustPassin Thru put it) 'compelling interest' the government has....unless HUGE numbers of citizens are complaining TO THE GOVERNMENT that their vehicle insurance rates are going up FOR THIS PARTICULAR REASON.

[The Limo 2]

Most car insurance in BC is purchased through The Insurance Corporation of BC which is a Provincial Government run agency. They see having a chip in the key as a way of reducing the number of stolen vehicles, therefore reducing their payouts for stolen vehicles and helping to keep auto insurance as low as possible.
Roy

[bronsin]

[QUOTE=nookandcrannycar;723485]Not to mention items used to track the driver (which I think is wrong):

QUOTE]

Yeah where this is all going in the future is really scary. At work they have cameras all over the place, they read all your emails, and have rats everywhere you wouldnt suspect that report back to the boss.

As far as cars go though the general driving public is totally out of control. Im in favor of recording devices on cars that are police accessable after an accident.

But of course you cant have it your way. If things go on the way they are we will all be just things that government and business can do whateveer they want with.

[nookandcrannycar]

Most car insurance in BC is purchased through The Insurance Corporation of BC which is a Provincial Government run agency. They see having a chip in the key as a way of reducing the number of stolen vehicles, therefore reducing their payouts for stolen vehicles and helping to keep auto insurance as low as possible.
Roy

OMG, I hope we never have this. However, the way things are headed, nothing would surprise me.

[nookandcrannycar]

If things go on the way they are we will all be just things that government and business can do whateveer they want with

:laugh: LOL. See my post #30 directly above.

[JustPassinThru]

In 2010, 74 Yarii were reported stolen - a rate of 1.16 for every thousand.

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Theft/2010

Not very high; and not worth the cost of a three-figure chipped-key replacement.

[jack black]

In 2010, 74 Yarii were reported stolen - a rate of 1.16 for every thousand.

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Theft/2010

Not very high; and not worth the cost of a three-figure chipped-key replacement.

The rate is about average.
Looking at the subcompacts:

Honda Fit 0.2
Kia Rio 2.9
Huyndai Accent 2.5
Prius C 0.3
Mini Cooper 0.4
Scion xD 0.6
VW Beatle 1.1
Toyota Yaris 1.2
Nissan Versa 2.0

[bronsin]

Most car insurance in BC is purchased through The Insurance Corporation of BC which is a Provincial Government run agency. They see having a chip in the key as a way of reducing the number of stolen vehicles, therefore reducing their payouts for stolen vehicles and helping to keep auto insurance as low as possible.
Roy

What they ought to do is give a reduction in premiums to owners of cars with low theft rates and raise the ones of frequently stolen cars.

[JustPassinThru]

What they ought to do is give a reduction in premiums to owners of cars with low theft rates and raise the ones of frequently stolen cars.

Yup.

I've never had a car stolen in my life - and I've been driving for 38 years.

I've ALWAYS kept a key inside the car. Starting with one of my first cars, an old Pinto beater...the ignition lock would sometimes jam, so I just took an extra key, put it in and left it in.

Been doing that ever since. The insurance company doesn't need to pay for lockout trouble calls; and it hasn't needed to pay on a stolen car.

And a chipped key isn't the answer. Now, if I were parking on a busy city street, I'd do something different...but I know that where I'm at, people don't steal cars. Not unless they're trying to get out from under their car note...:evil:

[dj92]

Is full coverage insurance (comprehensive, collision, and liability) mandatory in Germany? If so, is it mandatory no matter the age of the car?
Nope, however I'm having a basic insurance (which is mandatory (mostly to save people from getting e.g. half-paralyzed and getting no compensation), it pays for all damage you do to others (cars/persons/things/...)) plus a full coverage insurance.
I'm just having the bill for this year in front of me, so I can give you details:
I'm paying in total 720,69€, which is quite cheap for a full coverage.

The not-really-full-coverage pays for damage on my car by:
-"forest animals" (no, we have nor bears here :D )
-theft
-storm/lightning/flood/hail
-broken glass
-fire/explosion
-short corcuits, including marten's bites
-collisions with cattle
-glass repairs after rock fall (with no co-payment!)


The full coverage adds payment for:
-vandalism
-hit and run (done to me)
-accidents due to my fault

When I use one of these coverages, I pay 100...300€ of the damage done out of my own pocket, this is an option to get a lower bill ;)

For the basic coverage, I pay 378,1€, which is 37% of the standard rate (gained by 9 years of damage free driving), and for the full coverage I pay 342,59€, which is 27%/ 20 years.

You see that I could not drives this long time without damage :D

It's a fully legal trick; my granddad retired from driving (very wise decision), in this case, one has the option to "rescue" the bonus earned up to then.
The only problem is, that the legal owner of the car can not get more damage free years than the has his license.
This would have given me 4 years each, which is not that much.
So officially, it's my father's car (but I pay for it and am the only one who regularly uses it).

It's hard to afford a car otherwise, for beginners, the rates are at whopping 130% and more...

This way, I'd have to pay 2290,74€! (calculated with 100%)
That's about 1/3 of what I paid for my used car :eek:

I'm also having another car (since some weeks officially), this olive green beauty:
http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/small_156e9d7d12c3c5ae5b7be31f4adede2b.jpg (http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/156e9d7d12c3c5ae5b7be31f4adede2b.jpg)
http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/small_88de34ca2d983a3ddd8337334e0d5ebd.jpg (http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/88de34ca2d983a3ddd8337334e0d5ebd.jpg)
It gets a quite good MPG due to its diesel engine :)
I'm planning to get it on the road again (if I find a small holiday job - working 4 weeks for a whole year of car use is okay imho), in addition to the yaris.
In this case, I might take only a basic insurance because despite its neat condition, its remaining value is just about 2000€.
PS: She also suffers from lock jam (due to wear), but I'll tackle this issue maybe already this month :D


PPS:
They don't care if it is a luxury car or a econobox, they just generalize and have all cars have a chip key. Seriously, it doesn't bother me.

Me neither, I'd even go that far to be willing to get used to pay 500€ more for a car if VSC, fog lights (ridicoulously rear fog lights ARE mandatory in Germany) and some other things became mandatory, because imho they're nowadays rather easy to fix (at least with techstream and toyota manuals at hand)

[nookandcrannycar]

Nope, however I'm having a basic insurance (which is mandatory (mostly to save people from getting e.g. half-paralyzed and getting no compensation), it pays for all damage you do to others (cars/persons/things/...)) plus a full coverage insurance.
I'm just having the bill for this year in front of me, so I can give you details:
I'm paying in total 720,69€, which is quite cheap for a full coverage.

The not-really-full-coverage pays for damage on my car by:
-"forest animals" (no, we have nor bears here :D )
-theft
-storm/lightning/flood/hail
-broken glass
-fire/explosion
-short corcuits, including marten's bites
-collisions with cattle
-glass repairs after rock fall (with no co-payment!)


The full coverage adds payment for:
-vandalism
-hit and run (done to me)
-accidents due to my fault

When I use one of these coverages, I pay 100...300€ of the damage done out of my own pocket, this is an option to get a lower bill ;)

For the basic coverage, I pay 378,1€, which is 37% of the standard rate (gained by 9 years of damage free driving), and for the full coverage I pay 342,59€, which is 27%/ 20 years.

You see that I could not drives this long time without damage :D

It's a fully legal trick; my granddad retired from driving (very wise decision), in this case, one has the option to "rescue" the bonus earned up to then.
The only problem is, that the legal owner of the car can not get more damage free years than the has his license.
This would have given me 4 years each, which is not that much.
So officially, it's my father's car (but I pay for it and am the only one who regularly uses it).

It's hard to afford a car otherwise, for beginners, the rates are at whopping 130% and more...

This way, I'd have to pay 2290,74€! (calculated with 100%)
That's about 1/3 of what I paid for my used car :eek:

I'm also having another car (since some weeks officially), this olive green beauty:
http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/small_156e9d7d12c3c5ae5b7be31f4adede2b.jpg (http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/156e9d7d12c3c5ae5b7be31f4adede2b.jpg)
http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/small_88de34ca2d983a3ddd8337334e0d5ebd.jpg (http://files.brauchmer.net/imghost/up/88de34ca2d983a3ddd8337334e0d5ebd.jpg)
It gets a quite good MPG due to its diesel engine :)
I'm planning to get it on the road again (if I find a small holiday job - working 4 weeks for a whole year of car use is okay imho), in addition to the yaris.
In this case, I might take only a basic insurance because despite its neat condition, its remaining value is just about 2000€.
PS: She also suffers from lock jam (due to wear), but I'll tackle this issue maybe already this month :D


PPS:

Me neither, I'd even go that far to be willing to get used to pay 500€ more for a car if VSC, fog lights (ridicoulously rear fog lights ARE mandatory in Germany) and some other things became mandatory, because imho they're nowadays rather easy to fix (at least with techstream and toyota manuals at hand)

Very interesting. What are the minimum liability limits in Germany? IIRC, member Edmscan once replied to me in a thread that the minimum liability limit Canadians (or at least those in the Province of Alberta) can carry is $2,000,000 CAD per accident. The minimum limit in California is $30,000 per accident (with $15,000 per person and $5,000 property damage). The California level has been the same since at least the late 1970s.

[dj92]

It's quite high:
-2,5 millions per person
-if three or more persons are injured or killed 7,5 millions in total
-1,12 millions of material damage and
-50k€ for asset damage that is not connected to a personal or material damage

This sounds quite high, but lots of insurances have far higher liabilities, I consider this reasonable.
The most expensive case in Germany was in 2004 when a car hit a road tanker, which fell from the bridge this happened on and damaged it by catching fire.
The entire damage was 32 millions...

Most insurances have liabilities of about 100 million €.
PS:
How many cars of the specified type are stolen is in fact taken into account when the rates are calculated for full coverage insurance here.

[IllusionX]

I still don't see what (as JustPassin Thru put it) 'compelling interest' the government has....unless HUGE numbers of citizens are complaining TO THE GOVERNMENT that their vehicle insurance rates are going up FOR THIS PARTICULAR REASON.

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations. It's obvious that rate would go down if you have an immobilizer.

[dj92]

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations. It's obvious that rate would go down if you have an immobilizer.

This^

Sadly I have to learn for exams at the end of this month, but when I have the time, I will have a look at the immobilizer and the ways to override it - just for academic reasons, of course.
(Don't get your hopes up for a simple solution...)

[nookandcrannycar]

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations. It's obvious that rate would go down if you have an immobilizer.

Then what 'compelling interest' does the government have? Why would what type of key a car has (as long as the key isn't going to physically harm the public :biggrin:) be any of the the government's business...unless, as The Limo 2 posted is the case in BC, most people are insured through a provincial government sponsored company? Is this the case in Quebec?

[nookandcrannycar]

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations.

It does if the government essentially owns the insurance company. In such as case, many would consider a government regulation and an insurance company regulation a distinction without a difference.

[roxy1]

I live in NJ and the ones I have seen for sale on dealer lots (and there arent many) are around $16.5 before tax. Some are more.

I always include the tax when shopping for a car.

yes, out the door includes tax

[IllusionX]

and we are quite far off topic with all this insurance talk...

[nookandcrannycar]

and we are quite far off topic with all this insurance talk...

Touche :smile:.