Handling-wind and curvacious roads

[y-rag]

:iono: Just bought a basic model hatch back and aside from the racket and poor handling I really like this little beast. Has anyone made significant improvements to suspension (ie. shocks, springs, anti roll stabilizer/wheels/tires) that actually help keep you on the road in the wind and curves? I figure that maybe tossing the 14" rims and tires alone might make a noteable improvement. Am I kidding myself?

[eTiMaGo]

Welcome!
Look and search around, there's been plenty of posts on the subject

[churp]

I posted a thread not to long ago, from the advice I got it seemed like wheels/tires #1, lowering and springs #2, and on and on...with the general consensus being you can tame the side wind problem, but not totally get rid of it. I have springs on order. I put max allowable psi in the tires and that made a major improvement, so I would think the advice on wheels/tires is probably correct. Other than that I'm getting more used to it, but have no hands on knowledge so listen to the people who've been there.

[y-rag]

OK, so wheels and tires first. Even with the hideous stock Bridgestone 14's, 39 psi instead of the dealer's 29 made some difference though, but it's only just a start. What I don't get though is buy a new car and why do we have to do all this shit? This is Toyota's job isn't it? We're not talking here low tech 1950's VW bugs or ... or are we?

:burnrubber:

[eTiMaGo]

I'd say it's because Toyota prepares these cars for the widest audience, which requires them to tune the cars for comfort and low maintenance.

[Yaris Revenge]

What I don't get though is buy a new car and why do we have to do all this shit? This is Toyota's job isn't it? We're not talking here low tech 1950's VW bugs or ... or are we?

:burnrubber:

Because if Toyota did it for you, your Yaris would have costed $15k. :wink:

~YR

[HTM Yaris]

Poor Handling ....YARIS ..... not possible . The yaris/vitz handles beautifully ....stock . It just gets better with specifically designed parts :) I had no problems keeping up with the Evo's , Sti's , Elise's , Rx-7's at the dragon . Can't wait to spank more ass with my specifically designed parts this summer .......:)

[boxerboy]

I would agree with you that the yaris is not poor handling. To claim you had no problem keeping up with Evo's, STI's or the Elise is questionable. I have a WRX and I have driven a STI the lesser handling of those three cars. The yaris is not even in the same class. The Yaris sedan (.79) matches the wrx (.79) on the skid pad and comes close on the slalom (Road and Track test). Yaris 63.7mph and the wrx 64.8. Not close on the other cars. My guess is the other drivers were not or did not know how to push the cars performance.

[tds12]

This car handles great in conditions for which it was designed. City....great turns on a dime. Curves....great. Highway.....little under powered but handles great. Freeway...no trouble noted. Racing...I wouldn't expect it to be a great power house.
Noise: If the road is in good conditions it is fairly quiet. If the road is cement and rough you have some road noise. Turn up the sterio and keep thinking $12500 purchase price and 38 MPG! It is great for what it was designed for.

[brickhardmeat]

The car just comes on those factory stilts with a ton of body roll. I think that is what is being described as poor handeling.

[PetersRedYaris]

If cost is a concern, follow these steps. #1- Air up tires to max sidewall recommended pressure. #2-Springs. #3-Struts. #4-Tires/wheels. If money is no object, then do it all at once. Your biggest improvement will be tires and wheels.

[eco]

If you ask me for my opinion,it all depends on your tire,if you have a max tire pressure of 44psi,then If found the sweet spot to be 38psi(cold pressure*),thats for overal comfort,gas savings,and stability.I have 50psi max tires,I found that 42.5 to be great for gas,but bad for comfort,so I started using 39,then swithched to 35,then 37,now I think I've found the sweet spot for this width of tire Im using and the load of the car to get all the rubber on the road,but firmly when heated up.
* Tire pressure will rise with temperture,1psi every 10 degree's,so lets say the average temperture is 70,and when the tire is at it optimal temp.say 140 I guess,thats 7psi mor in your tire.

[BMGYaris]

Well shoot, I finally went to fill up my tires to 40 PSI and wouldnt you know...we had winds of 35 mph and im not sure what the gust were, but you know it had to be like 45 if steady winds were up to 35...even right now it seems calm and its 15/25.
It was great:) i filled up to 40, get on the interstate and the barrier is on my right, everything is giong smooth. Then the barrier ends just as a huge gust hits. Suddenly my car is slammed and I get pushed several feet to the right and nearly into the other lane:) couldnt really gauge the effectiveness today:)

[eco]

Sorry to hear that.

[Black Yaris]

Well shoot, I finally went to fill up my tires to 40 PSI and wouldnt you know...we had winds of 35 mph and im not sure what the gust were, but you know it had to be like 45 if steady winds were up to 35...even right now it seems calm and its 15/25.
It was great:) i filled up to 40, get on the interstate and the barrier is on my right, everything is giong smooth. Then the barrier ends just as a huge gust hits. Suddenly my car is slammed and I get pushed several feet to the right and nearly into the other lane:) couldnt really gauge the effectiveness today:)

That high air pressure you are running greatly decreases the stability of your car, one of the many reasons the car was engineer with 32psi in the tires for a reason, so if you are having stability issues, first thing I would do is drop the pressure down to the correct pressure

[spkrman]

new rims and tires, big big difference.

[BMGYaris]

That high air pressure you are running greatly decreases the stability of your car, one of the many reasons the car was engineer with 32psi in the tires for a reason, so if you are having stability issues, first thing I would do is drop the pressure down to the correct pressure

Hey, just to start out, this is def not a personal attack against you, but I would really like you to support that with some data or some logical explanation, rather than just having me take your word on it. In particular because of this thread
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5004
where we have people talkinga bout 60psi and such.....

Anyway I did some reasearch though now im doing more research and I cant seem to find anything that supports using max pressure. Anwyay, alot of people say that toyota speced their tires for comfort and performance, however, by pumping them up a littl emore you improve performance and decrease comfort--just as they did with spring, etc...and so that is the general premise I came to believe for a little while. Though im not sure it is true. In further defense of that position everyone always stresses never to be below recommended pressure. that means that factory recommend pressure is essentially the MINIMUM pressure right? so how could the minimum really be any better than the max? just a thought...

Also, I have had my pressure right at the recommended pressure up until i made that post and I have had a terrible problem with handling...though....

there might be a particular reason.... I went to a dealership a while back and they initially said I had some rough road force and needed a new tire, then they never called me when it was supposed to have come in, i called them. they didnt write down which tire so they retested and said everything is fine, then another dealership said everything is fine, and I just dont have that much time to fuck around with the dealers. Anyway I really want some new fucking tires...lol damn it but stay on topic, join in to that PSI conversation, just dont get caught up on the 60PSI part, im with whatever you have to say in that much at least.

[eTiMaGo]

We've been over this in another thread, essentially it boild down to this, Toyot recommends 32PSI as a safe, comforatbale pressure. Look on your tire's sidewall, and you will see the maximum pressure that the tire manufacturer recommends, you can pump up to that without problems.

60PSI should only be looked at if you want to stretch every last mile out of your fuel, and the rest of your driving style must follow. So, don't pump to 60PSI and drive fast, that's just a recipe for disaster.

Interesting article for you:

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070415/NEIGHBORHOODS/704150326/1247

:wink:

[churp]

I feel the higher tire pressure (not over max.) has helped me with the crosswinds. I don't think the stock tires are anywhere optimum but right now I'm not buying new ones. One problem with this thread is some people are trying to compare track/autocross handling with side wind handling and I think there's a major difference.....try putting a couple of your larger friends in the backseat and tell them to rock from side to side while you drive down the road---stiffness of tires and springs with the addition of sway bars are my best guess for curing the problem....now for track conditions its different---sometimes less stiff is a help for better traction and contact with the road.

Maybe I'm totally wrong but I just see too many differences and don't think tuning for one is always the same as tuning for the other.

[brickhardmeat]

I feel the higher tire pressure (not over max.) has helped me with the crosswinds. I don't think the stock tires are anywhere optimum but right now I'm not buying new ones. One problem with this thread is some people are trying to compare track/autocross handling with side wind handling and I think there's a major difference.....try putting a couple of your larger friends in the backseat and tell them to rock from side to side while you drive down the road---stiffness of tires and springs with the addition of sway bars are my best guess for curing the problem....now for track conditions its different---sometimes less stiff is a help for better traction and contact with the road.

Maybe I'm totally wrong but I just see too many differences and don't think tuning for one is always the same as tuning for the other.

I have to agree with you on that. Lowering my car only on the stock tires has made a huge difference in highway driving. I felt like I was sailing before almost fighting to keep it straight. Huge improvement with the drop. I am certain comining all of the things I want to do will get me where I want to be suspension wise.


and I do not over fill my tires, 30-32 pounds is all

[BMGYaris]

We've been over this in another thread, essentially it boild down to this, Toyot recommends 32PSI as a safe, comforatbale pressure. Look on your tire's sidewall, and you will see the maximum pressure that the tire manufacturer recommends, you can pump up to that without problems.

60PSI should only be looked at if you want to stretch every last mile out of your fuel, and the rest of your driving style must follow. So, don't pump to 60PSI and drive fast, that's just a recipe for disaster.

Interesting article for you:

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070415/NEIGHBORHOODS/704150326/1247

:wink:


yea i know we have covered alot of this, but alot of internet articles from some pretty reputable sources are pretty adament about maintaining the PSI facotry recommendations for best performance, and then a new player came on the scene, i dont think he had said much so i was interested in hearing what he had to say:) I was actually part of that conversation suggesting that if you do 60PSI it would mean that you had to follow suit in other areas as well, or its a recipe for disaster. But dang, eventually when my gf moves over here i guess i will have to do everything to improve handling, just to make sure she is as safe as can be eh? honestly, i think my stock tires were fucked up and the dealership i went to pre 3k miles sucked balls....anyway, i'll leave this rest for now and drop my pressure to 38 for my own peace of mind:)

[eco]

38psi for your tire sounds great to me.
Brickhardmeat,30psi,I hope you know to take load into effect aswell,if you do have 4 passengers,your engine will be in pain,tires will heat up very quickly,and wear faster.And you should also remeber that you will lose psi over time.I also beleive in that nitrogen fill that alot of places offer now,I havnt tried it yet,but it sounds good,and right.