Drove a 2013 Fiat 500 for a week; Love my Yaris even more

[CTScott]

I was in New Orleans for the past week doing a little family vacation. I rented a car, as we planned on also making our way out of the city a bit. With my rental package I could choose any car on the lot, but with no surprise to my wife and kids, rather than a Mustang or Yukon, I choose the smallest car there - A 2013 Fiat 500. I could have grabbed a Yaris, but when I travel, I always like to try other subcompacts for comparison. We were traveling fairly light, so luggage space wasn't an issue, but immediately my kids commented on how much smaller and less comfortable the back seat was.

The car was a six speed automatic and as I pulled out of the rental car area I almost turned back around as the acceleration was weak and the shift points felt very strange. By the time I made it out of the airport and onto the freeway I realized that it was just the nature of the car. Revving it up a bit brought the acceleration to an acceptable range, where I could comfortably merge onto the freeway and zip through traffic. The 4 wheel disc brakes had a great feel and performed well. The suspension felt a bit tighter than a completely stock Yaris, but the narrow width of the car made it feel a bit less stable than a Yaris in the turns.

The shorter length made street parking a breeze in the city as well as in the tiny parking garage at our hotel. We put just over 200 miles on it by the end of our trip and that was just enough for me (and my wife and kids) to be mighty glad to hop back in our Yaris after flying home.

53286

[roxy1]

there is a reason so many 500 buyers opt for the manual transmission. the automatic in the 500 is quite awful and suck much of the fun out of that car.

[trunkout]

I'll take an Abarth!

[frambach]

I don't like the look of those cars.

So, I'm glad to hear that it's:
- weak
- less spacious
- less stable
than my beloved Yarii.

It would have been a shame if you had said it kicked the Yaris in every category. I'd had to handle the fact that it's a chick car and I'd have to begin to accept that although it's a goofy looking girly car, it had our Yarii trumped.

Nice little review.

[roxy1]

to be fair, and having owned a 500 for 2 years, I would have to say it handles turns and twisties with much more stability than the yaris. its upright nature gives the illusion that it wont. the manual 500 is by far a more fun driving experience (and even more so in sport mode with the better throttle response and steering). I also got 40+ mpg's as easy, and probably a little easier, than I do in the yaris.

the yaris is bigger and I expect a few less issues with it.

[bentjazz]

Fix It Again Tony.

It's obnoxiously small, and even though I like subcompacts, I don't like subcompacts that small. I mean, what's the point? I knew someone at work who had a Fiat 500, and she regretted buying it due to all the issues she was having with it. I don't think she's alone. Seems like I've read a lot of complaints about this car online. But hey, each to his own. Cars ain't cheap, and if you're a working stiff like me, money doesn't grow on trees and a major investment such as a car had better be reliable. That's one reason I chose the Yaris and another reason I'd never consider a Fiat or a VW.....

[yougojay]

Fix It Again Tony.

It's obnoxiously small, and even though I like subcompacts, I don't like subcompacts that small. I mean, what's the point? I knew someone at work who had a Fiat 500, and she regretted buying it due to all the issues she was having with it. I don't think she's alone. Seems like I've read a lot of complaints about this car online. But hey, each to his own. Cars ain't cheap, and if you're a working stiff like me, money doesn't grow on trees and a major investment such as a car had better be reliable. That's one reason I chose the Yaris and another reason I'd never consider a Fiat or a VW.....
This, exactly. And Yes, you've read a lot of complaints on-line I am sure.
Great looking little car, but you can't fix FIAT (even Tony hates them)
Take a look at Fiat 500 forums. Talk about trouble.
Great photo CTScott, like that a lot

[CTScott]

Fix It Again Tony.

It's obnoxiously small, and even though I like subcompacts, I don't like subcompacts that small. I mean, what's the point? I knew someone at work who had a Fiat 500, and she regretted buying it due to all the issues she was having with it. I don't think she's alone. Seems like I've read a lot of complaints about this car online. But hey, each to his own. Cars ain't cheap, and if you're a working stiff like me, money doesn't grow on trees and a major investment such as a car had better be reliable. That's one reason I chose the Yaris and another reason I'd never consider a Fiat or a VW.....

That is definitely true. When we were in Italy a couple summers ago I had the opportunity to speak with some Yaris drivers over there and in asking them why they chose a Yaris over a 500, they said that the Fiats have significant issues. I realize that the US ones have many differences from the Italian ones, but I would still be hesitant myself.

The Fiat I was driving had less than 40K miles on it and it did have some issues already. The side skirts were hanging loose at their front edges (likely rental abuse, but still). The passenger front seat tilt mechanism (for letting people in the back) had an issue where after tilting the seat it would slide all the way back, rather than going back to where it was originally positioned. My wife smacked my younger daughter in the knees at least 20 times thanks to this issue. The charger outlet was dead and unfortunately it was something more than the fuse.

[roxy1]

you will always read about complaints on a car forum. the fact is that based on data on the 500 that has been out since 2007 in Europe and the true delta data to this point, the 500 reliability really is not an issue. service, which is primarily being done at CJDR dealerships, has been more of an issue. even the cars with the highest number of problems (per 100 vehicles) in todays JD power long term studies would rank at or near the top in reliability 10 yrs ago with the same number of problems. most cars are pretty reliable these days.

[jcboy]

Fix It Again Tony.
But hey, each to his own. Cars ain't cheap, and if you're a working stiff like me, money doesn't grow on trees and a major investment such as a car had better be reliable. That's one reason I chose the Yaris and another reason I'd never consider a Fiat or a VW.....

THIS. otherwise i would have gone with the more fashionable Fiesta. Roughly the same price as a yaris here (if not cheaper), but with a lot more tech goodies inside.

[roxy1]

there is hyperbole, then there is reality.

was Toyota considered one of the most reliable makes in 2003? darn right they were. the long term dependability study (not the quite useless 90 day initial study) had Toyota #2 at 196 problems per 100 vehicles. http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/apnews/stories/070803/D7S5IAI00.html

in 2014, in the same study, the make that comes in last is Mini, at 185 problems per 100 vehicles . http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/2014-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Press-Release.htm

This supports the assertion by most experts in the automotive industry that the least dependable cars of today are more dependable than the most dependable from several years ago.

It is even more telling that todays cars have far more electronic gadgetry to go wrong than they did 10+ years ago, yet the problems per vehicle continue to go down year by year.

so, I say buy whatever suits your desires. modern cars are all relatively reliable these days.....what has changed is the proliferation of social media and with it the amplification of every problem known to man.

[tooter]

Great photo CTScott, like that a lot

So do I. :smile:

Scott, you have a good eye for composition. :thumbsup:

Greg

[nookandcrannycar]

So do I. :smile:

Scott, you have a good eye for composition. :thumbsup:

Greg

I agree :clap:. I've spent about 5-6 weeks (a bit under half of it volunteering in Orleans Parish) in the New Orleans area (in St. Bernard Parish, Orleans Parish, the eastern part of Jefferson Parish, and in the eastern part of St. Tammany Parish). The beauty encapsulated in CTScott's picture elicited a pang of regret that I have yet to make it to any of the plantations. I must do so sometime in the next few years....it's too close (about 350 miles....closer than SF to LA....not close to some people, but it is in my mind :biggrin:) to not take advantage of the opportunity.

[why?]

there is hyperbole, then there is reality.

was Toyota considered one of the most reliable makes in 2003? darn right they were. the long term dependability study (not the quite useless 90 day initial study) had Toyota #2 at 196 problems per 100 vehicles. http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/apnews/stories/070803/D7S5IAI00.html

in 2014, in the same study, the make that comes in last is Mini, at 185 problems per 100 vehicles . http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/2014-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Press-Release.htm

This supports the assertion by most experts in the automotive industry that the least dependable cars of today are more dependable than the most dependable from several years ago.

It is even more telling that todays cars have far more electronic gadgetry to go wrong than they did 10+ years ago, yet the problems per vehicle continue to go down year by year.

so, I say buy whatever suits your desires. modern cars are all relatively reliable these days.....what has changed is the proliferation of social media and with it the amplification of every problem known to man.

While those numbers are nice, they miss the most important thing of all, how much the cars cost to fix said issues. Cost of ownership is so much more important.I wouldn't give a damn how many issues per 100 my brand of car has if I have an issue that is going to cost me several grand to fix, or has a required maintenance item that is absurdly expensive.

[roxy1]

While those numbers are nice, they miss the most important thing of all, how much the cars cost to fix said issues. Cost of ownership is so much more important.I wouldn't give a damn how many issues per 100 my brand of car has if I have an issue that is going to cost me several grand to fix, or has a required maintenance item that is absurdly expensive.

sure. depends on the car. depends on the part. mini was just the example because they were last on the list. there are plenty of parts/repairs on Toyotas and Hondas that I think are absurd. (price wise). I agree that on certain makes, preventative maintenance will take a bigger bite out of ones pocket.

[Dark Paw]

Roxy, u ever driven a JDM Vitz RS? Drive one & compare it to the 500. That I think is a better option to compare than a standard Yaris. Stock RS handles very well, better than most other subcompacts.

[roxy1]

Roxy, u ever driven a JDM Vitz RS? Drive one & compare it to the 500. That I think is a better option to compare than a standard Yaris. Stock RS handles very well, better than most other subcompacts.

yep. I actually lived in Japan for big chunks of 3 years. I still have more fun driving the 500, even the basic one sold here (Pop). the steering in sport mode is (imo)still better than in the RS, and with that short wheel base it is a blast to drive. interestingly, I never cared for the abarth. the ride is too jarring, and the extra power, for me, just isn't necessary in such a small car.

still, I moved to a yaris because I absolutely needed a little more room and I was no longer willing to have my closest dealer 2 hours away. I can still enjoy driving the yaris. give me a small car and a stick and I can have fun.

[Dark Paw]

Ok kool. Mine's a stick, not very fast in stock trim though I've put a few compatable cars to shame, very fun. I've never driven a 500, can't compare. Hell I fine wanna lol, I'm a Toyota loyalist... Sorta.

[why?]

sure. depends on the car. depends on the part. mini was just the example because they were last on the list. there are plenty of parts/repairs on Toyotas and Hondas that I think are absurd. (price wise). I agree that on certain makes, preventative maintenance will take a bigger bite out of ones pocket.

Not compared to other vehicles. Mini is one of them that has ridiculous normal maintenance charges because they are BMW. I spend about $150 or so when I need to take my Yaris in, mini, bmw, etc are $1000 just to start.

That cost is so much more important than the number of things that go wrong per car. I can take my car in every 10,000 miles and spend less than people who own those cars spend on 1 visit.

[roxy1]

Not compared to other vehicles. Mini is one of them that has ridiculous normal maintenance charges because they are BMW. I spend about $150 or so when I need to take my Yaris in, mini, bmw, etc are $1000 just to start.

That cost is so much more important than the number of things that go wrong per car. I can take my car in every 10,000 miles and spend less than people who own those cars spend on 1 visit.

that's mini. the point wasn't about mini. the point was that the whole "superior reliability" mantra just isn't supported by empirical data anymore (the way it clearly was 15+ years ago). there are a bunch of other makes that have less repairs than Toyota did just 11 yrs ago...ford, chevy, Nissan, etc...that are not real expensive to repair or maintain (certainly not noticeably more than are Toyotas).

are Toyota's a little more reliable than most other makes? yes, but by an ever shrinking margin. are Toyotas cheaper to maintain and fix than mini or vw? yes, so are most other makes that are pretty close to what it costs to maintain and repair a Toyota.

for me, long gone are the days of having to look at only Hondas and Toyotas...I can look at just about any small car out there and not be too worried about dependability or repair costs (mini and vw not withstanding)

[tk-421]

For the record, I've been driving a 2014 Fiat 500 with CVT semi-regularly and it's not half bad. It has a "sport" button that tightens the steering wheel and suspension and shortens the gear ratios. It's also pretty good with gas mileage (comparable to my Yaris).

This is the very first car with CVT that I've ever driven, so I'm not sure if it's unique to this car, but it's pretty much impossible to engine-brake without feeling that I'm wrecking the tranny. Does anyone know if this is common to all CVTs?

[JustPassinThru]

At base, Fiat has always had problems in sturdiness of construction and durability under long-term ownership. All the logo changes, all the "resets," all the image reworkings have left that unchanged - which is what will happen when management invests time and credibility in denying the issue.

Fiat has always been a third-world choice of car. Probably because their manufacturing cost is lower, for whatever reason; and also because they're quick to work with local manufacturing setups and to license government-run manufacturing plants with obsolete and even current products. The Yugo was a restyled 127; the Russian Lada a 124...Fiat sold the Soviet auto commissars the tooling after the 124 was discontinued.

It's the choice of car for benighted people who HAVE little choice of car. In the United States, plenty of dealers went broke trying to sell Fiats to buyers who had VWs, Datsuns, Toyotas to choose among. Fiats came up short then, even when they had front-wheel-drive when Toyota did not; even when they indulged in whimsical styling (Strada) and playful advertising (Strada's manufacturing robots).

At base is quality. Fiat, like Renault, lacked it; and it became so obvious they were forced out of America.

They may have changed but not enough to compete. Sadly, this time they'll probably take what's left of Chrysler down with them.

[why?]

that's mini. the point wasn't about mini. the point was that the whole "superior reliability" mantra just isn't supported by empirical data anymore (the way it clearly was 15+ years ago). there are a bunch of other makes that have less repairs than Toyota did just 11 yrs ago...ford, chevy, Nissan, etc...that are not real expensive to repair or maintain (certainly not noticeably more than are Toyotas).

are Toyota's a little more reliable than most other makes? yes, but by an ever shrinking margin. are Toyotas cheaper to maintain and fix than mini or vw? yes, so are most other makes that are pretty close to what it costs to maintain and repair a Toyota.

for me, long gone are the days of having to look at only Hondas and Toyotas...I can look at just about any small car out there and not be too worried about dependability or repair costs (mini and vw not withstanding)

Way to try to sidestep everything. Nothing beats the reliability and the dirt cheap cost of the Yaris. And while all cars are getting better, they still aren't Toyota. Just assuming every car is going to be reliable is the way to find yourself buying a total lemon. like this guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqg0wCkcdKE)

Yes, all cars are getting better. But That doesn't make all car experiences equal. Nor does it make all dealer networks equal. And it certainly doesn't make all cost of ownership equal, which again, is so much more important than specific number of problems per car.

Because let's face it, the survey is massively flawed. Like the year oldsmobile closed and all of a sudden all those oldsmobile owners bought kia's and hyundai's and what do you know? All of a sudden kia and hyundai's are at the top of the list. Until those people who are too nice to complain realize those cars are not very good.

Stop harping on one small study and realize there is so much more to a car ownership experience. The big picture is more important than any single small snapshot that 1 survey takes.

[jcboy]

that's mini. the point wasn't about mini. the point was that the whole "superior reliability" mantra just isn't supported by empirical data anymore (the way it clearly was 15+ years ago). there are a bunch of other makes that have less repairs than Toyota did just 11 yrs ago...ford, chevy, Nissan, etc...that are not real expensive to repair or maintain (certainly not noticeably more than are Toyotas).

are Toyota's a little more reliable than most other makes? yes, but by an ever shrinking margin. are Toyotas cheaper to maintain and fix than mini or vw? yes, so are most other makes that are pretty close to what it costs to maintain and repair a Toyota.

for me, long gone are the days of having to look at only Hondas and Toyotas...I can look at just about any small car out there and not be too worried about dependability or repair costs (mini and vw not withstanding)

makes sense, thanks roxy for the insight. yes the mantra is there, but on the other side the industry survey numbers you presented may not also be the reality.

TBH, i used to be a toyota fan, owned a van for more than a decade, then became a honda loyalist, owned a civic for around the same time. then i went back to toyota after test-driving several (brandnew) test cars.
when i testdrove, i have heard a clunking noise from the suspension on a mazda 2, i have felt the flimsiness of switches/stalks of hyundai accent and kia pride, among other things. i have several friends who owned several other cars, which i help them maintain. the suspension of mitsubishi and mazda--let's not even go there.

reliability? i would say toyota is still best (and cheapest), honda is 2nd (rubber bushings are their achilles heel), nissan/mitsubishi/mazda would be something not in my answers to put it simply.

again, you have a point. unfortunately i am unsure as to whether they're closing in as fast as the industry survey numbers say.

[roxy1]

Way to try to sidestep everything. Nothing beats the reliability and the dirt cheap cost of the Yaris. And while all cars are getting better, they still aren't Toyota. Just assuming every car is going to be reliable is the way to find yourself buying a total lemon. like this guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqg0wCkcdKE)

Yes, all cars are getting better. But That doesn't make all car experiences equal. Nor does it make all dealer networks equal. And it certainly doesn't make all cost of ownership equal, which again, is so much more important than specific number of problems per car.

Because let's face it, the survey is massively flawed. Like the year oldsmobile closed and all of a sudden all those oldsmobile owners bought kia's and hyundai's and what do you know? All of a sudden kia and hyundai's are at the top of the list. Until those people who are too nice to complain realize those cars are not very good.

Stop harping on one small study and realize there is so much more to a car ownership experience. The big picture is more important than any single small snapshot that 1 survey takes.

first, its not one small study..its massive, and the data collected is on 3 yrs of ownership. I cant recall ever seeing kia at the top of one of the JD Powers Vehicle Dependability studies. if they were, let me know which year as id like to take a look at it. data is proving that Toyotas, Hondas, etc.. aren't that much more reliable than most other makes anymore. I know it hurts the fanboys to here this, but the globalization of manufacturing processes and , and parts procurement along with shared technologies was bound to lead things in that direction.

I never said anything about dealership experiences....except that I bought my Toyota in part because I like my dealer, so I don't know who you are arguing against there.

lots of things go into the true cost of owning a car...depreciation, fuel costs, insurance costs, financing, repairs, maintenance, average state sales taxes, registration fees. there are all kinds of publications/organizations that have compiled data on which cars and makes offer the lowest ownership costs. again, Honda and Toyota aren't overly represented as they were 15 years ago.

I used to be a Honda, then Toyota loyalist for years. I still like both companies, but there are a heck of a lot of really good cars being built these days and I just don't see the overall advantage to owning these two makes as I did in 1995.

[why?]

first, its not one small study..its massive, and the data collected is on 3 yrs of ownership. I cant recall ever seeing kia at the top of one of the JD Powers Vehicle Dependability studies. if they were, let me know which year as id like to take a look at it. data is proving that Toyotas, Hondas, etc.. aren't that much more reliable than most other makes anymore. I know it hurts the fanboys to here this, but the globalization of manufacturing processes and , and parts procurement along with shared technologies was bound to lead things in that direction.

I never said anything about dealership experiences....except that I bought my Toyota in part because I like my dealer, so I don't know who you are arguing against there.

lots of things go into the true cost of owning a car...depreciation, fuel costs, insurance costs, financing, repairs, maintenance, average state sales taxes, registration fees. there are all kinds of publications/organizations that have compiled data on which cars and makes offer the lowest ownership costs. again, Honda and Toyota aren't overly represented as they were 15 years ago.

I used to be a Honda, then Toyota loyalist for years. I still like both companies, but there are a heck of a lot of really good cars being built these days and I just don't see the overall advantage to owning these two makes as I did in 1995.

You are arguing the only thing that matters is one study. That is just absurd and ridiculous in every possible way. And 3 years? Give me a break. Totally amazingly worthless since the average age of the American car fleet is the oldest it has ever been at something like 11 years.

No one but you has said there are not other good cars out there. You are arguing against yourself or refusing to read in most of your posts. There are other good cars and brands out there.

But most of them cost more to do anything to. Maybe you've had a very narrow experience when it comes to cars, but I have not. My family has owned literally a fleet of different used cars, so I actually know what most brands cost to fix. Saab, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Infiniti, Plymouth, Chrysler, Lincoln, Cadillac, Jaguar, Mazda and I am sure I am forgetting something.

My Yaris is by far the cheapest vehicle to maintain. Your 1 study does not compare to the many many resources on the internet that show actual cost of ownership and reliability of vehicles over their entire life. It is time to stop clinging to that study like it is the only thing keeping you alive.

[roxy1]

to the many many resources on the internet that show actual cost of ownership and reliability of vehicles over their entire life. It is time to stop clinging to that study like it is the only thing keeping you alive.

you wrote "No one but you has said there are not other good cars out there"

what are you talking about? I have said nothing of the sort. the whole argument is that there are lots of good cars out there.

I understand it is just one study. it just happens to be one of the larger and better one, methodology wise. ive owned plenty of other makes in my lifetime.

nowhere have I said one study is all that matters, only that it is a part of the evidence that Toyota/Honda do not dominate anymore in making dependable cars. they used to because most everybody else was making crap cars in the 80's and 90's.

cost of ownership lists abound all over the place. for example, Forbes uses KBB to compile data, and the lowest ownership costs in each category include the compact Toyota Corolla, midsize Honda Accord and full-size Chevrolet Impala sedans and the Jeep Patriot, Mitsubishi Outlander and Ford Explorer crossovers. Among sports cars, KBB picked the Ford Mustang, while the most frugal-to-own luxury car is the two-door Audi A5.

the list is just one example of many. all kinds of makes are represented. im not married to any one list or study. there is enough data out there for me to see the truth. so, I will say it again: there are many very good, dependable, cheap to own cars being made by quite a few manufacturers out there, giving us all many choices we did not have in the previous two decades.

PLEASE do not get confused. I agree the cost of ownership of plenty of Toyotas is very good. im simply stating the the differences between them and the others isn't anywhere near what it used to be and allows for people to choose other makes based on (for example) the styling they prefer, or the features they prefer, and so on...

jeez, 8 of the 22 categories are taken up by a GM product. that's pretty good. I could live in 1992 and just discount the list, or I could (and have) admitted that GM, Ford, and others are making superior products compared to what they used to. Toyota and Honda are still making very good products. anyone who doesn't think the gap is getting pretty narrow has their eyes closed, IMHO.


KBB cost of ownership lists (by category):

•SUBCOMPACT CAR: Chevrolet Spark
•COMPACT SUV/CROSSOVER: Jeep Patriot
•COMPACT CAR: Toyota Corolla
•MID-SIZE SUV/CROSSOVER: Mitsubishi Outlander
•SPORTY COMPACT CAR: Hyundai Veloster Turbo
•FULL-SIZE SUV/CROSSOVER: Ford Explorer
•MID-SIZE CAR: Honda Accord
•LUXURY COMPACT SUV/CROSSOVER: Buick Encore
•FULL-SIZE CAR: Chevrolet Impala
•LUXURY MID-SIZE SUV/CROSSOVER: Lincoln MKX
•ENTRY-LEVEL LUXURY CAR: Buick Verano
•LUXURY FULL-SIZE SUV/CROSSOVER: Buick Enclave
•LUXURY CAR: Audi A5
•MID-SIZE PICKUP TRUCK: Toyota Tacoma Regular Cab
•HIGH-END LUXURY CAR: Lexus LS
•FULL-SIZE PICKUP TRUCK: GMC Sierra 1500 Regular Cab
•SPORTS CAR: Ford Mustang
•MINIVAN/VAN: Dodge Grand Caravan Passenger
•HIGH-PERFORMANCE CAR: Chevrolet Camaro SS/ZL1
•HYBRID SUV/CROSSOVER: Lexus RX
•HYBRID/ALTERNATIVE ENERGY CAR: Toyota Prius c
•PLUG-IN VEHICLE: Chevrolet Spark EV

[ilikerice]

Look what you started CTScott

My wife says my yaris is a money pit... Most expensive and bouncy vehicle she has ever seen... Every time there is another yaris hatch that we pass, she always says, "that yaris looks better than yours, probably rides better too"

granted... it doesn't matter what car I own.. I will find something to do to it that costs more than its worth.

[ilikerice]

WHOA.. I agree with most of that, EXCEPT
- SPORTY COMPACT CAR: Hyundai Veloster Turbo
I would think the mazdaspeed3 would beat that any day

personal opinion..

[CTScott]

Look what you started CTScott

My wife says my yaris is a money pit... Most expensive and bouncy vehicle she has ever seen... Every time there is another yaris hatch that we pass, she always says, "that yaris looks better than yours, probably rides better too"

granted... it doesn't matter what car I own.. I will find something to do to it that costs more than its worth.

It is pretty amusing to see how any topic involving one's opinion can turn into a multi-page debate.

[roxy1]

WHOA.. I agree with most of that, EXCEPT
- SPORTY COMPACT CAR: Hyundai Veloster Turbo
I would think the mazdaspeed3 would beat that any day

personal opinion..
I had the standard veloster for a while, so I cant comment on the veloster turbo. however, the interior of that car was far better than it should have been for the price.

don't forget, that list is a cost of ownership list, not necessarily "best" car of most fun car. (I added a heading, which I guess I forgot)

[ilikerice]

don't forget, that list is a cost of ownership list, not necessarily "best" car of most fun car.

Ok, that I can agree on. Mazdaspeed3 is amazing for autocross. I hear alot of complaints about chassis not working very well for autocross. Granted, the Velocter is probably cheaper, being the mazdaspeed3 owners are probably grinding thru each and every gear....

Similar to the Dodge neon SRT-4 when it came out. It was the most bang for your buck off the showroom floor.

[Dark Paw]

Nothing beats a Toyota in durability or long term reliability. All manufacturers are catching up in reliability of their new cars, but in the real world where cars age & get rattly, Toyota trumps all. The cars are just well built to begin with.

[roxy1]

I see more and more 10-15+ yr old, 150,000+ mile domestic makes on the road that look decent and are in good running condition. chevy and ford aren't putting cavaliers and escorts on the road anymore.

times are changing. that is a good thing for all of us.

[bentjazz]

All I know is that I've had my Yaris going on 4 years now and zero problems. Zero.....

[ilikerice]

same here, and i abuse the shit out of mine at least once a month, just broke 65k miles last week

[jcboy]

This.

http://tsikot.com/forums/ford-cars-talk-78/ford-fiesta-attention-details-77313/index6.html

some, if not all remarks are in tagalog. basically, the complaints are from a ford owner who loves his fiesta. so it's not like he's a whiner who's just ranting as he pleases.

[428CobraJet]

I've test driven both the 500 and the Abarth. Both in 5speed form. The regular 500 is slower than my Yaris. ..and softly sprung. I would worry how it feels at 100k. The Abarth is much better....but the mpg is in the toilet. I like the interior of either much more than my 09 3 door.

My Yaris feels about as sharp at 106000 miles as it did new. That is very important to me. I dont know any 500 owners approaching 6 digits. On their forums ,the owners appear much more for giving of repairs than we do.
Craig

[nookandcrannycar]

I've test driven both the 500 and the Abarth. Both in 5speed form. The regular 500 is slower than my Yaris. ..and softly sprung. I would worry how it feels at 100k. The Abarth is much better....but the mpg is in the toilet. I like the interior of either much more than my 09 3 door.

My Yaris feels about as sharp at 106000 miles as it did new. That is very important to me. I dont know any 500 owners approaching 6 digits. On their forums ,the owners appear much more for giving of repairs than we do.
Craig

Yea, I like the interior of the 500, the Abarth, and all of the MINI models better than the Yaris. However, I'd be concerned re repairs with any of them. That would be enough to chase me away.

[roxy1]

Yea, I like the interior of the 500, the Abarth, and all of the MINI models better than the Yaris. However, I'd be concerned re repairs with any of them. That would be enough to chase me away.

this iteration of the 500 had been around since 2007 in Europe, though with some different engine choices than we don't get and less of the structural/safety requirements we have.

longer term reliability with those older 500's is proving to be average to above average. these days, that makes for a pretty reliable car. I don't expect it to be a Toyota or Honda reliability wise, but I also don't expect it to be the headache that mini or vw have been.

I would also add that both cars are slow (of course) and in fact my best 0-60 times at the track in both my 500 and yaris (both manuals) were within .04 seconds. getting 40+ mpg's in both was also pretty easy, but a little less effort was needed for that in the 500 (ie it was easier to have fun and bang on it here and there and still achieve that)

imo, the negative part of owning a 500 at the moment is the lack of dealers and the fact that most studios are using Chrysler dealership service centers. there are a lot of mediocre (at best) concepts still lingering about what constitutes quality service at the old CJDR dealerships.

[nookandcrannycar]

I don't expect it to be a Toyota or Honda reliability wise

Then wouldn't handling, styling and color preference, and slightly better ease of parking be the only reasons one might choose the 500?

but I also don't expect it to be the headache that mini or vw have been.

Didn't mean to insult your previous choice. This is anecdotal, but I was thinking about Europeans in Europe telling CTScott why they chose the Yaris over the 500.


imo, the negative part of owning a 500 at the moment is the lack of dealers and the fact that most studios are using Chrysler dealership service centers. there are a lot of mediocre (at best) concepts still lingering about what constitutes quality service at the old CJDR dealerships.

IMO, this is important. If you are away from your home area, a Toyota dealership might end up being the most expensive choice, but the best one re getting the repair done right the first time. Among different makes, I would think Toyota dealer repair would be the best or among the best re a quality repair the first time.

[SKurj]

I'm really curious to take an Abarth out for test drive. Currently I have an 09 Yaris 3 dr and a 2013 BRZ.. The BRZ maybe a bit 'cooler' gets more looks for sure, but I find myself grabbing the keys for the yaris more and more... I love my Yaris, its a great car, and its more fun than my BRZ at least around town.
Wondering if the small size of the Abarth would be a better fit more me than the BRZ.. (Cooper S also fits in here though price is scarey)

[428CobraJet]

The Abarth is the only Fiat that could replace my 2009 3dr. But the mpg is nada bueno.

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[roxy1]

Then wouldn't handling, styling and color preference, and slightly better ease of parking be the only reasons one might choose the 500?



Didn't mean to insult your previous choice. This is anecdotal, but I was thinking about Europeans in Europe telling CTScott why they chose the Yaris over the 500.




IMO, this is important. If you are away from your home area, a Toyota dealership might end up being the most expensive choice, but the best one re getting the repair done right the first time. Among different makes, I would think Toyota dealer repair would be the best or among the best re a quality repair the first time.

if they got the dealership/service issues squared away, I would be back in a 500 yesterday (even thought the yaris gives me some needed extra room...id sacrifice it). the long term reliability doesn't much concern me. the 500 in Europe is not proving to be unreliable, and it has been there for 6 yrs.

I will see how this are going when the next gen 500 comes around. the abarth never appealed to me one bit. for the price it uses most of the same interior materials as the regular 500. fine for a $16k car, but not acceptable for a $22k+ car. for an everyday driver, it has a pretty harsh ride. the regular 500 is a blast an a much better choice as a daily driver.

[roxy1]

What kind of issues did you have?



See, I don't much like the regular 500. I wouldn't buy one. However, I love the Abarth, and would plunk down $22K for one. While the interior isn't a whole lot better, you're getting the turbo engine, a limited-slip setup, better brakes, better suspension, bigger wheels and stickier rubber, and some other exterior stuff. And the sound. Oh the sound! The Abarth to me is just so much fun.

first, there were indications from fiat that there would be a lot more dealers that never materialized. in fact, one confirmed studio that would have been an hour closer to me backed out a month after I bought my car. it was the proximity to this dealer that made me take the leap of faith. beyond that, it had been mostly an inability to fix simple things right the first time (for example a side skirt that was peeling off). this gets amplified when each round trip is 3 1/2 hours.

as far as the abarth, it depends what one is looking for in a small hatch, for me it is about having fun when I want but having a comfortable daily ride and maximizing mpg's the rest of the time. the base 500 did this very well.

the good thing for anyone wanting an abarth (or any other fiat) is that they are getting discounted pretty heavily these days. the downside is that right now the resale value on fiats is quite poor.

to be honest, if I had a dealer within 30 minutes of me, I probably would have stayed with the 500.