All Terrain Tires?

[Ben_]

Hey Fellas,

I've been lurking around for a while now and I finally decided what mod I want to do to my little blue yaris. I'm at about 42k miles on the stock Potenza re92 which worked just GREAT for my first auto-X event ever last month :headbang:. As you can imagine with almost 45k its getting time to replace them soon.

I want to fit 215-75-15 BFG A-T T/A tires on my stock steelies and have some fun with the car off highway. I am wondering how close these tires are to fitting inside the wheel wells in stock form and what will be needed to make them fit. Suspension lift? Remove quarter panels and bumper and fab a 'brush gaurd' bumper to replace the plastic one? Body lift? Wait a second this is a unibody car that wont work. Well you probably get the idea.:burnrubber:

Chime in if you have tips. Second to driving down to the tire store and actually trying to bold one up I'm not sure how to approach this.:iono:

[CTScott]

You are pretty limited on off road tires without lifting the front suspension and modifying the front fenders. For tires that will work without modification, rally gravel or snow tires, or just aggressive snow tires are your best bet.

On Crashy I run Maxxis Bighorn 15" ATV Tires on stock steelies, but I also have a 4" custom suspension lift and no front fenders:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39118&d=1293481793

[Ben_]

What does your 4" suspension kit look like? What parts did you replace to achieve that?

What suspension components are available? Coil-overs are available, but how much lift can be achieved with them before the stock suspension geometry becomes ineffective?
How much lift can I get from longer springs or a spring spacer without changing shocks?

How can i measure where the interference points are with the new 75mm tall tires and the inner fender and fender 'flares'?
Stock diameter is 24.5"
BFG A/T 215/75/15 is 27.7"
BFG A/T 195/75/14 is 25.5"

If removal of the fenders and front and rear bumpers makes it fit I would do that.

[Thirty-Nine]

Well, you're going to be nearly four inches in diameter larger then stock with a 215/75/15—that's a giant leap. I doubt you could fit them in the fenders. Also keep in mind your gearing will take a huge hit meaning both fuel economy and power are going to be affected.

Case in point, I have a '95 Suzuki Sidekick. It came with 205/75/15 tires stock. I added 235/75/15 tires, which is only 1.7 inches larger in diameter. Even with 5.13:1 gearing, performance isn't as good. I mean, the little thing only has 95 horsepower—only about 10 fewer than the Yaris.

The 195/75/14 would be a much better choice (only 1.78 inches larger in diameter). You still may have rubbing issues.

[CTScott]

^ Those are all good points. I forgot also that with the 26" high x 10" wide tires I am using that I still needed a 1" wheels spacer, as the extra diameter and width mean that you start rubbing on the back of the wheel well when the wheel is turned.

For my 4" suspension lift in the front I created 1/4" steel plates that extend the strut mounting points up by 4". Longer strut assemblies, airbags, or coilovers could be used, but they would all cost a lot more than the pieces of steel did. I also had to extend the strut supports and did so by cutting them and welding a piece of thick walled pipe to add the extension to them.

For the rear, I simply used a set of Firestone spring helpers (about $100 for the set), which are adjustable airbags that you shove inside of the rear springs.

On thing though is that even with the aggressive tires, you will still have traction issues. When I am plowing it is never an issue as my plow weighs about 200 lbs and I engineered the plow frame to translate the dead weight of the plow and the weight of the snow being pushed into downward force on the front tires. When I have the plow off in the warm months and am using her around the yard (and screw around in the woods) I have gotten her stuck a few times. A locking differential would be the solution, but thus far I haven't found a kit that will work with such a tiny differential. A limited slip diff would probably do just fine, but it would end up tearing up my lawn, so I would rather have a normal diff that I can lock on demand.

[Ben_]

Ok so maybe I can go for this angle

Firestone spring helpers for front and rear $200

195/75/14 BFG AT $520 from tirerack.com

Kosei K1 TS Grey 14" 9.3lbs $476 from tirerack.com

Wheel spacers

Edit: remove unnecessary body panels


hit the trail :burnrubber:

[CTScott]

Ok so maybe I can go for this angle

Firestone spring helpers for front and rear $200

195/75/14 BFG AT $520 from tirerack.com

Kosei K1 TS Grey 14" 9.3lbs $476 from tirerack.com

Wheel spacers

Edit: remove unnecessary body panels


hit the trail :burnrubber:


The firestone helpers are only for the rear. The fronts have struts inside of the springs, so there is no space for them.

The BFGs look like a good choice at 25.5" high x 7.7" wide

[Exiwolfman]

so u want to make ur Yaris something like this...this is on the tire size u want looks cool :P

53513

[Ben_]

How about universal coil spring spacers for the front?

[Ben_]

Hit the nail on the head, exiwolfman. Is that a Golf? Looks SWEEEEEEET!

[CTScott]

How about universal coil spring spacers for the front?

Spring spacers might work, but with them on the front struts the springs would not have any compression range, so the front would be rigid. That VW looks like it is running rally suspension. MCA Suspension makes a setup that would work on the Yaris, but I wouldn't even want to know what it costs.

[Exiwolfman]

Spring spacers might work, but with them on the front struts the springs would not have any compression range, so the front would be rigid. That VW looks like it is running rally suspension. MCA Suspension makes a setup that would work on the Yaris, but I wouldn't even want to know what it costs.

i think spring spacers should work...had a set on my jeep Tj on the front to level it 1 inch u could use isolators (however u spell that lol) coil spacers worth a try

[Exiwolfman]

Hit the nail on the head, exiwolfman. Is that a Golf? Looks SWEEEEEEET!
Golf Syncro 4X4 ...love that set up

[Ben_]

what springs are available for stock front shocks?

[CTScott]

what springs are available for stock front shocks?

I wasn't able to find anything off-the-shelf that would raise the front, other than air bags, which are very expensive and I don't believe are rated for the abuse that they would see off road.

[Ben_]

So the only option is serious modification of the front suspension to fit larger tires. Its possible it would work with 14" wheels and minor modification but I'm not willing to fund that project.

All season tires are gonna have to do.

I took the Yaris off highway today for about 20 miles down a dirt road. It has enough power to haul up steep gravel/slippery hills and enough clearance in stock form to make it over most obstacles on the trail. I only scraped bottom a few times. The traction control was very helpful for getting through mud and soft dirt it made it possible to get more traction than without traction control. Now all I need are some WRX stickers for extra horsepower :D

[CTScott]

So the only option is serious modification of the front suspension to fit larger tires. Its possible it would work with 14" wheels and minor modification but I'm not willing to fund that project.

All season tires are gonna have to do.

I took the Yaris off highway today for about 20 miles down a dirt road. It has enough power to haul up steep gravel/slippery hills and enough clearance in stock form to make it over most obstacles on the trail. I only scraped bottom a few times. The traction control was very helpful for getting through mud and soft dirt it made it possible to get more traction than without traction control. Now all I need are some WRX stickers for extra horsepower :D

I should really build up a few of my kits, as it seems like there is more and more interest in off roading.

Traction control would definitely help with where I have had issues. I have an extra ABS ECU/Pump assembly and have been thinking of rigging it up to Crashy where I can fire it as needed, as opposed to adding all of the rest of the components necessary to have traction control.

[Thirty-Nine]

I should really build up a few of my kits, as it seems like there is more and more interest in off roading.

That'd be cool. I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to fab up a spacer lift, no?

[CTScott]

That'd be cool. I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to fab up a spacer lift, no?

It really is not that bad. It's just the strut base spacer and the extended strut supports that are required. I ground the lip off the bottom edge of my struts to make it easier to do, but with a bit of extra work the spacers could be made to work without modifying the struts.

[Ben_]

So much good information! Thanks so much you guys are the best! :biggrin:


I was thinking this could possibly be an easy project, but it isn't. Its probably not the best idea to tear apart my DD, especially with auto-x season in full swing.

It seems there is interest in off road use and I would LOVE to see a bolt on lift kit that could be put on in a weekend so this project is more approachable by other owners. 8+ inches of ground clearance and an LSD with tires and maybe some engine work and the Yaris could be a real weapon. I think wranglers come stock with only 8.5" (don't quote me on that) of ground clearance.

Lets see some kick ass rally hatches! Toyota needs more motor sports recognition anyway :tongue:

[justjesus]

Funny thing. Me and CTScott have been discussing this during the last week. I have been doing a ton of reading / research for lifts, mods, custom stuff, ATV tires, wheels, etc.

I'm planning on doing a small lift myself. I won't go into details yet. But for the front, I was thinking along the lines of CTScott's 4" lift, but limited to 1-2" instead. I don't want to go too high.

For tires, I have settled on the BFG All Terrain, mostly because it's the smallest aggressive looking tire (non ATV) that I found. Since the Yaris is low on power, I wanted to keep weight down, and these 175/95-14s are already at 31 lbs!!!! Aside from that, I have some lightweight wheels in 14", aside from a few other 14" wheels to choose from.

The airbags, I definitely will be using in the rear. I bought a set a long time ago, but never put them on. With my intention of going "off road" and do some camping, i'm using the bags to help with the extra weight. I DO plan on using the stock springs, since they are taller than my Micro Image springs, and are much softer. Shocks, I'll likely go back to the stock ones too. Not sure on that yet.

Lastly, here's some "Ground Clearance" numbers I've been getting. I had been wondering what I can safely get away with in the yaris, without getting too crazy high, but enough clearance to have some fun on some of the trails.

These numbers are taken from Edmunds - I'm not sure if they measure the bottom of the rocker panel, or the absolute lowest point on the car (frame/suspension).

99 4 Runner 11"
10 Tacoma 9.3"
02 Rav4 6.3"
08 Yaris 5.8"

01 Cherokee 8.1"
11 Liberty 7.8"
06 wrangler 10.3"


I will be shooting for at least 2 additional inches of lift, created by the added height of the 195/75-14 tires, as well as the suspension mods I plan on doing.

Oh, the last part for me: I plan on doing this on the cheap side. cuz I'm poor. (too many projects!)

[justjesus]

MCA Suspension makes a setup that would work on the Yaris, but I wouldn't even want to know what it costs.

I KNOW! - I looked them up when i heard about them from the Tag Yaris, but was thinking big bucks!!

[CTScott]

Funny thing. Me and CTScott have been discussing this during the last week. I have been doing a ton of reading / research for lifts, mods, custom stuff, ATV tires, wheels, etc.

I'm planning on doing a small lift myself. I won't go into details yet. But for the front, I was thinking along the lines of CTScott's 4" lift, but limited to 1-2" instead. I don't want to go too high.

For tires, I have settled on the BFG All Terrain, mostly because it's the smallest aggressive looking tire (non ATV) that I found. Since the Yaris is low on power, I wanted to keep weight down, and these 175/95-14s are already at 31 lbs!!!! Aside from that, I have some lightweight wheels in 14", aside from a few other 14" wheels to choose from.

The airbags, I definitely will be using in the rear. I bought a set a long time ago, but never put them on. With my intention of going "off road" and do some camping, i'm using the bags to help with the extra weight. I DO plan on using the stock springs, since they are taller than my Micro Image springs, and are much softer. Shocks, I'll likely go back to the stock ones too. Not sure on that yet.

Lastly, here's some "Ground Clearance" numbers I've been getting. I had been wondering what I can safely get away with in the yaris, without getting too crazy high, but enough clearance to have some fun on some of the trails.

These numbers are taken from Edmunds - I'm not sure if they measure the bottom of the rocker panel, or the absolute lowest point on the car (frame/suspension).

99 4 Runner 11"
10 Tacoma 9.3"
02 Rav4 6.3"
08 Yaris 5.8"

01 Cherokee 8.1"
11 Liberty 7.8"
06 wrangler 10.3"


I will be shooting for at least 2 additional inches of lift, created by the added height of the 195/75-14 tires, as well as the suspension mods I plan on doing.

Oh, the last part for me: I plan on doing this on the cheap side. cuz I'm poor. (too many projects!)


Interesting on the stats. I just checked Crashy and without the plow she has a solid 12" of clearance (Woot! more off-roadable than an old 4-Runner!).

[justjesus]

LOL, Scott

She's got some clearance!

edit: holy smoking clearance. That's almost as much as my friend's 4runner with like 4" lift and 33" tires!

[justjesus]

They cleared. Barely. This is with the Micro Image lowering springs.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Yaris_Off-Road/P1000812_zpseb7dbee3.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Yaris_Off-Road/P1000812_zpseb7dbee3.jpg.html)


It's really tucked in, so there isn't rubbing. But, this was on straight pavement.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Yaris_Off-Road/P1000848_zpsbb998f36.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Yaris_Off-Road/P1000848_zpsbb998f36.jpg.html)

[Ben_]

:o you are my new best friend dude that is amazing

I WANT I WANT I WANT

[Thirty-Nine]

That looks badass.

[justjesus]

:o you are my new best friend dude that is amazing

I WANT I WANT I WANT

Okay, but just so you know, I wont be sending out Christmas cards this year!

That looks badass.

Thank you thank you. I'm liking the way the tires tuck in and all, but this is supposed to be for off-road, where clearance is needed. I'm afraid it will look less badass once it's lifted back to stock, or a tad bit higher. I'll post a few pics of the "proposed" height a little later.

[Thirty-Nine]

Personally, I think it'll look better once back to stock height. more rally-car-like.

[justjesus]

plus an inch....give or take a quarter of an inch. LOL - yeah, i'm getting excited.

I've been planning which trails to hit with it.

[Ben_]

So let's get an update.... How is is cruising?

[justjesus]

WOW... I can't believe it took me nearly a year to finally get the rest of the tires and take it off road!!!!

So yes. Earlier this month, I put the tires on, and went for it's maiden trip on the 16th. Took it to the closest trail I could find. It's also one of the easiest I know. Sure, it has a few spots that are more challenging, but it's mostly an easy trail.

Ben: Cruising with the larger tires is okay. They seem softer for the ride, and lower the overall cruising RPM. I don't like that I "lost" some power, since they're quite a bit heavier than I was used to. MPGs has dropped. I'm still working on getting an average, but it's clear it has dropped.

The larger tires at stock height clear....mostly. At full lock, the d/s rubs the fender liner (just barely). I attribute this to a prior set of tire setup when I was lowered and i rubbed the crap out of the liner. I'm sure it loosened it some and even ripped some small sections off the liner. No big deal. It also rubs a tiny amount at full lock on the factory tie down hooks (?) near the frame rail. These are the hooks that they use for transporting the new cars from the factory, I believe.

Anyway, my boss keeps coming around, so I can't get into more detail. But here are some pics... I'll post up some videos in a week or so.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0065_zpsdmtktqxu.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0065_zpsdmtktqxu.jpg.html)

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0086_zpsalwiwwod.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0086_zpsalwiwwod.jpg.html)

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0117_zpsglar7hzs.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0117_zpsglar7hzs.jpg.html)

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0122_zps5ap8jpkp.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0122_zps5ap8jpkp.jpg.html)

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0137_zps8nzcn7i5.png (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0137_zps8nzcn7i5.png.html)

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/JustJesus_Video/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0136_zps80czx6qy.jpg (http://s711.photobucket.com/user/JustJesus_Video/media/Off%20Road%20Yaris/IMG_0136_zps80czx6qy.jpg.html)

[CrankyOldMan]

Nice! Did you get a chance to bottom out on all corners? I'd like to try these for rallyX, but not if it's going to eat my bumper fascia and/or fenders.

[justjesus]

Nice! Did you get a chance to bottom out on all corners? I'd like to try these for rallyX, but not if it's going to eat my bumper fascia and/or fenders.

I didn't bottom out on the suspension, if that's what you mean. I didn't drive fast, mostly cruising at lower speeds in 1st gear.

Fenders and rear bumper were just fine. Front bumper was hit at the bottom in a few spots. You can see that in one of the videos I'll eventually post.

There are some rally yaris out there, and they seem to be doing fine with their bumpers.

[CrankyOldMan]

I think they run a slightly smaller tire, but are going significantly faster. =) I would be using them for rallyX, so there would be a high potential for bottoming out and biting the fenders.

[justjesus]

Ahhh, I see. Have you considered a more Yaris friendly size in the form of some rally gravel tires? RallyX could be fun!

[ern-diz]

So much win

[thewifesyaris]

Resurrecting an old thread, but I am curious if there is any update to the outcome of longevity of running these tires on the Yaris justjesus?

I live in Rural Oregon and there are tons of trails that I would love to be able to take my car on rather than the gas hog truck.

Also, what are the specs on the wheels? 14x8? What offset? Spacer?

I currently have the Yaris lowered on 195-60-15s with Tein lowering springs. I still have the stock shocks, but I wouldn't mind getting more than a few inches of height over stock with a spacer lift of some sort.

Anyways, awesome job with making it happen on an off road capable Yaris justjesus!

[justjesus]

haha...is the thread that old?

I'm still running them. I drive roughly 70 miles per day. I look at them almost daily, and they still look pretty much new.

Honda Civic HX wheel. Believe it's a 14x5.5 with a 45 offset. I did need a small spacer (dont know if it's 2mm, since a friend gave them to me and he doesn't know) for the front wheels to clear the caliper. It barely clears with those on there.

Kosei has a wheel (K1TS) that is 14x6 and weighs a tad over 9lbs. Offset is 38mm (look for a Honda application, ex, 1991 honda crx) and is 120/wheel. If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably run some Volk TE37s of some sort in a 14" size. I just happened to have the HX wheels sitting around from another project.

I probably wouldn't run them on lowering springs. Things get a bit tight under there with the tire at 195/75-14.

For a lift, I think I have the rear mostly figured out. Just need to use a longer shock, or use a shock extension. The front, the easiest solution is how CTScott has on his Crashy. Although I still have other ideas brewing, they're on the back burner for now while I focus on other things.

A skid plate would also be nice. Well plates. I'd like to protect the lines/wiring that run lenghwise along the "frame" rails underneath.

[thewifesyaris]

haha...is the thread that old?

I'm still running them. I drive roughly 70 miles per day. I look at them almost daily, and they still look pretty much new.

Honda Civic HX wheel. Believe it's a 14x5.5 with a 45 offset. I did need a small spacer (dont know if it's 2mm, since a friend gave them to me and he doesn't know) for the front wheels to clear the caliper. It barely clears with those on there.

Kosei has a wheel (K1TS) that is 14x6 and weighs a tad over 9lbs. Offset is 38mm (look for a Honda application, ex, 1991 honda crx) and is 120/wheel. If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably run some Volk TE37s of some sort in a 14" size. I just happened to have the HX wheels sitting around from another project.

I probably wouldn't run them on lowering springs. Things get a bit tight under there with the tire at 195/75-14.

For a lift, I think I have the rear mostly figured out. Just need to use a longer shock, or use a shock extension. The front, the easiest solution is how CTScott has on his Crashy. Although I still have other ideas brewing, they're on the back burner for now while I focus on other things.

A skid plate would also be nice. Well plates. I'd like to protect the lines/wiring that run lenghwise along the "frame" rails underneath.

I guess the thread is not that old.

Thanks for the infos.

I found a cool wheel I think I will go with, not as light, but around the same price. I could probably find a dealer that can get those K1-TS's too if needed.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCloseUpServlet?target=runWheelSearch&wheelMake=Sparco&wheelModel=Assetto+Gara&wheelFinish=Green+Painted&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Yaris+Hatchback&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=

These should clear without a spacer. Then I'll need to raise the car back to stock height and or look at a longer spring for the rear. Might look at getting a local shop to fab up a spacer for the front coilovers. Depends on how much clearance there is with the stock springs, I am going to do that 1st before looking at anything else.

I am curious if anyone knows of an adjustable coilover system that would allow for lowered and raised heights, so as to perhaps swap back and forth.

Anyways, this is all homework really as I just bought new tires a few months back and will likely run those till they are dead than make this change. However, it doesn't hurt to start buying things while I wait. I may get impatient and make the switch sooner too.

[justjesus]

...

I am curious if anyone knows of an adjustable coilover system that would allow for lowered and raised heights, so as to perhaps swap back and forth.

Anyways, this is all homework really as I just bought new tires a few months back and will likely run those till they are dead than make this change. However, it doesn't hurt to start buying things while I wait. I may get impatient and make the switch sooner too.

I like those sparcos. The design is cool.

I've been thinking of that type of coilover system for some time. For mix use between daily driving, off road, and occasional autoX. BUT that is too much to fill, as one requires stiffer spring rates (autoX). I'd still be happy with softer springs, but at least having something adjustable from being 2" taller than stock, and down to about 2" lower than stock. That's a 4" range. Likely need a totally custom set up for that.

I've been doing the homework for too damn long. But life gets in the way, so applying some of the things to the Yaris is taking forever. As it is, it took me like a year just to go back to stock height with the BFG All Terrains!

[thewifesyaris]

I feel you on the timeline of my projects.

I love the idea of being able to raise and lower the car on a whim. I doubt I will be able to find or afford this type of system. The wheels and tires are going to run close to 1000 as is. It will be a while before I get to that part, the funds.

[Ben_]

There are a lot of airbag coil over kits if I remember right....

[justjesus]

The wheels and tires are going to run close to 1000 as is. It will be a while before I get to that part, the funds.

Yeah, i went the cheapest route possible, and wheels/tires were still at about 750 or so. I would also love to run the xB final drive and an LSD but THAT'S a nice chunk of change!

There are a lot of airbag coil over kits if I remember right....

Indeed, there are choices. I'm not too familiar with the ones made for the Yaris, but my guess is that they're made more for show cars, or guys who just want to be slammed to the ground.



I'll be starting another thread for dirt road / off road with some pics and some short videos to give you guys an idea as to what I've dealt with so far, and throw my thoughts out as well. Will do so throughout the week

[Ben_]

Nice! Look forward to it