Charging / fuses

[sadarahu]

I have Yaris 2007 / 65k
Since about 2 months I have problem with charging/BAT light coming on and off. For the most part is is off. I noticed when I start the car usually the light comes ON, then after 15-30 min driving it usually comes off, then it stays of for the rest of the day. I park on the street and next day I start the car the same scenario repeats. Few days ago however something else happened. My horn and left parking light went off. I checked the fuses but they are all good.
I've herd there might be a grounding problem, but not sure where to look.
Initially I thought it is alternator that needs to be replaced, but with 65k miles it would sound wired and a little to early. I hate to replace the alternator just to find out that the problem is somewhere else. I wonder if it is possible that there is some loose connection.

Any suggestions appreciated.
Thank you - Arthur

[WeeYari]

Symptoms you are describing pretty much point to the voltage regulator built into the alternator. This is a known issue with pre-'09 builds with corrosion being the problem. Toyota had actually issued a TSB to their service departments alerting them to this issue.

One of many threads which can be found by searching 'voltage regulator'

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27945&highlight=voltage+regulator

[nortonfb]

Take it to a auto parts store, like O'Rileys ( I believe there in your area).
Have them check the out put of your alternator. You can do it yourself with a cheap meter.
Check battery connections and cables.
Pull your fuses and check the blades for corrosion.
Steve

[sadarahu]

Thank you for your suiggestions and time.

OK, then How can I make sure it is the regulator ?
also - I looked up alternators on eBAY and some of them are 80Amps some 120A - so how can I figure out which one to get (eventually) ?
I've seen the regulators replacement kits abut there was no note whether those are new or rebuild. Would it make sense to use rebuild one ?
Any other god price sources other than eBAY ?

Arthur

[CTScott]

Thank you for your suiggestions and time.

OK, then How can I make sure it is the regulator ?
also - I looked up alternators on eBAY and some of them are 80Amps some 120A - so how can I figure out which one to get (eventually) ?
I've seen the regulators replacement kits abut there was no note whether those are new or rebuild. Would it make sense to use rebuild one ?
Any other god price sources other than eBAY ?

Arthur

With the alternators, all OEM ones are 80A. Avoid aftermarket ones, as many have been problematic with not properly feeding the signal the the cluster, so you end up with a flickering charge warning light.

With the regulators, they are a sealed device, so all will either be new or used. You will not find a rebuilt regulator. The regulator contains the circuitry that feeds the signal to the cluster, so there too I would avoid aftermarket.

[sadarahu]

yes, I did already checked fuses. I have tested all of them and reinserted. The fuses are OK. I also measured the voltage which is around 14.5V when the red led is off and it is simply 0v when it is on, so obviously the alternator is not charging at all at times. Amazingly I'm visiting a friend and left my Yaris in his garage for about 3 days and see no problem with charging when I start it, but who knows when this might reappear again.
The problem with the horn not working still remains. My left-front parking light is also dead (but haven't yet checked the bulb). Wonder if this might be related to horn problem. Is it possible that all this is caused by a grounding ?
If so where to check for grounding connections ?

Arthur

[sadarahu]

hmm checked everything I could but still no horn signal.

any ideas ?

Arthur

[CTScott]

For grounding, check the battery terminals for corrosion as well as the point where the negative lead connects to the chassis and the couple of ground straps between the engine and the chassis.

With the horn, do you hear its relay click?

[sadarahu]

Checking around the battery and fuses is easy enough to figure out, but can you tell where the other straps connecting to the chassis are ?
My Battery Charge light is ON again , and no horn. While I was driving few days ago the horn came on for a few minutes, the later it disappeared again. It definitely looks like it is is some connection problem and I'm glad I did not replace alternator yet, as it might be a quick fix. The only problem is to find where the connection is bad. Is there any way I can use multimeter to figure that out.

[CTScott]

Checking around the battery and fuses is easy enough to figure out, but can you tell where the other straps connecting to the chassis are ?
My Battery Charge light is ON again , and no horn. While I was driving few days ago the horn came on for a few minutes, the later it disappeared again. It definitely looks like it is is some connection problem and I'm glad I did not replace alternator yet, as it might be a quick fix. The only problem is to find where the connection is bad. Is there any way I can use multimeter to figure that out.

Grab the wiring diagrams portion of the service manual from the Micro Image Forum (http://www.microimageonline.com/forums/showthread.php/4232-YARIS-FILES).

Look at page 60 of the wiring diagrams for the under hood ground locations. With a multimeter, measure the resistance between the negative battery terminal and each of those points. It should measure very close to zero ohms.

[sadarahu]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. I know how to use multimeter, however I'm not a car electrician. I could not find any electric diagrams referring to the problem. The diagram about Generator explains fixing/replacing generator and the chassis electrical diag. but I was not able to locate anything that might refer to grounding.
Is there any main metal strap that goes to the chassis. I was told by friend mechanic that every car has it but have no idea where to locate it.
I see my charging LED was off for some time and now it comes ON again.

Art

[CTScott]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. I know how to use multimeter, however I'm not a car electrician. I could not find any electric diagrams referring to the problem. The diagram about Generator explains fixing/replacing generator and the chassis electrical diag. but I was not able to locate anything that might refer to grounding.
Is there any main metal strap that goes to the chassis. I was told by friend mechanic that every car has it but have no idea where to locate it.
I see my charging LED was off for some time and now it comes ON again.

Art



Again - Go to page 60 of the EWD document. At the top of the page it says "Location of ground points". The ground points are indicated by a triangle symbol (A1, A2, B1, C1, C2).

[sadarahu]

Thank you all for your time and advice.

OK, I looked the diagrams, but I don't think I will be able to locate all grounding points simply because there are to many of them, I have no tools, space and can't lift the car to look underneath.
In the meantime my horn went down again and the problem with charging is back again. So at this point no horn and charging Led is going On and Off. Usually when I start the engine the charging Led is ON, then when I drive for some time it comes OFF.

Here is few things I tested today:
1. Tested every single fuse (OK)
2. I pulled the 2 plugs from the fuse box under the hood and sprayed the with the contact cleaner
3. I pulled relays (3 on the passenger side and 2 on the driver side) cleaned the connectors and re-inserted.
4. I was also moving the cables (single wires) in the connectors plugs while friend of mine was observing the dashboard (if the charging will go off)
5. I cleaned battery connectors.
6. I cleaned alternator connections (the plug and the grounding cable)

Still no luck
I think I would need to go to some car shop, but I'm afraid to pick just any because most of them are simply poor quality and they take advantage of customers. I already have had one advising me to replace the alternator, but I doubt it is alternator causing the problem, as it seems to be related to the Horn as well. IT looks to me like it is connection problem. I'm on a limited budget now so I really hate to replace parts just to find out the problem is elsewhere.

QUESTION: If I have a computer tester connected - would it show any problems, or even possibly tell what is wrong ? My friend mechanic told me it will not but I do not trust his competence anymore...

Any recommended electric shop around Chicago OR shall I really go to Toyota dealer ?

Arthur

[CTScott]

Thank you all for your time and advice.

OK, I looked the diagrams, but I don't think I will be able to locate all grounding points simply because there are to many of them, I have no tools, space and can't lift the car to look underneath.
In the meantime my horn went down again and the problem with charging is back again. So at this point no horn and charging Led is going On and Off. Usually when I start the engine the charging Led is ON, then when I drive for some time it comes OFF.

Here is few things I tested today:
1. Tested every single fuse (OK)
2. I pulled the 2 plugs from the fuse box under the hood and sprayed the with the contact cleaner
3. I pulled relays (3 on the passenger side and 2 on the driver side) cleaned the connectors and re-inserted.
4. I was also moving the cables (single wires) in the connectors plugs while friend of mine was observing the dashboard (if the charging will go off)
5. I cleaned battery connectors.
6. I cleaned alternator connections (the plug and the grounding cable)

Still no luck
I think I would need to go to some car shop, but I'm afraid to pick just any because most of them are simply poor quality and they take advantage of customers. I already have had one advising me to replace the alternator, but I doubt it is alternator causing the problem, as it seems to be related to the Horn as well. IT looks to me like it is connection problem. I'm on a limited budget now so I really hate to replace parts just to find out the problem is elsewhere.

QUESTION: If I have a computer tester connected - would it show any problems, or even possibly tell what is wrong ? My friend mechanic told me it will not but I do not trust his competence anymore...

Any recommended electric shop around Chicago OR shall I really go to Toyota dealer ?

Arthur


Not sure what you mean by a computer tester, but driving around with a lighter outlet multimeter measuring the battery voltage would be an easy way of seeing what is going on. You can pick one up at most auto parts stores:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE86pT8xgWc4EmqY2p6uWikI9R4w3Kh NX5pErJ7KnnR9ZBnt4g

[esse10]

It sounds like you might have a bad cell in your battery or your alternator is going out. Or it could be a combination of both causing problems. If your battery has not been replaced in 4-5 years than that is one of your problems for sure. The alternator should read 13-5 to 14.5 volts Dc when the motor is running. with the engine running put a digital meter on the battery and that proves the alternator is charging or not and if at anytime that voltage drops down than there's your problem. The horn problem could just be your connection it's known to come lose with vibration. Mine did a year ago I had to remove the bottom paneling and push up on the connector and the horn started working again.

[sadarahu]

OK, I got it fixed !
Removed alternator, opened and cleaned all connections.
Installed back and it is all fine. Even my horn works ;-)

This is thank to this article:

http://steampunkworkshop.com/toyota-yaris-battery-light-repair

so I hope this might be helpful in the feature for others.

Thank you all for your time.

Arthur

[WeeYari]

Hmmm...can anyone say post#2 ?

Glad you got her fixed up.

When my voltage regulator was giving me intermittent issues, my DRLs wouldn't work. Never did notice any issue with horn since I rarely use it. Quite possible it got knocked out as well.

[sadarahu]

False conclusion. After 5 days the charging Led is ON again !
but this time horn is still working
oooh my,....
Is thee any way to check if it is an alternator which is bad or something else ?
of course without installing a new one

Checking the voltage is meaningless in this case. Simply when it is not charging I get 0V and when he light goes off a get 13+V
I wonder how this problem could be possibly related to the battery going bad ? If this is rally a possibility then I can reconnect my boat battery (almost new) and see what happens, but
I'd like to know if it is worth the try ? Not sure if this is related but the charging problem returned right after I washed the car. Working on this is a real pain because now the Led goes ON an OFF, and when it is On it is slightly flashing.. I caught the moment when it was Off, disconnected battery GND cable and checked voltage. There was14-15V, so I might consider a bad battery case. Any method o test if the battery is bad ?

still do no know if connecting computer tester to the outlet on the left under the dashboard will show anything or give any clue ?


Art

[WeeYari]

Not sure if this is related but the charig problem returned right after I washed the car.

I'm still going with regulator issues. Mine went for approx 2 years with intermittent problems. It would come on when atmospheric conditions generated moist air, ie rain, fog, high humidity. Dry air conditions the light would go out, only to return again when the air got damp.

[CTScott]

False conclusion. After 5 days the charging Led is ON again !
but this time horn is still working
oooh my,....
Is thee any way to check if it is an alternator which is bad or something else ?
of course without installing a new one

Checking the voltage is meaningless in this case. Simply when it is not charging I get 0V and when he light goes off a get 13+V
I wonder how this problem could be possibly related to the battery going bad ? If this is rally a possibility then I can reconnect my boat battery (almost new) and see what happens, but
I'd like to know if it is worth the try ? Not sure if this is related but the charig problem returned right after I washed the car.

still do no know if connecting computer tester to the outlet on the left under the dashboard will show anything or give any clue ?


Art


Where are you taking measurements? You should never see zero volts.