Hard to start

[sebastianroher]

My car is being a pain in the a$$. We just recently got it and when come to find out that the car is hard to start at times. It's intermittent. I just replaced the camshaft position sensor (it had oil spewing into the connector), that seemed help. We did some driving today and we had to try three times to get the car started. I don't know what to try. I know there is a TSB about the Yaris having bad rockers and valve springs and throwing multiple misfires on initial start, I hope this isn't the issue. If anyone has anything I should try, please let me know. I don't want to throw parts at this thing. Thank you!

[CTScott]

As we discussed with you car, it sounds like there may be a few different issues. For the hard starting issue, fuel system problems are often the culprit (plugged fuel filter or gummed injectors).

[sebastianroher]

How do I change the fuel filter? I was told it wasn't supposed to be changed as its in tank..

[CTScott]

How do I change the fuel filter? I was told it wasn't supposed to be changed as its in tank..

It is in the tank and to get to it you have to remove the bottom of the back seat to get to the access hole. Just because it is in the tank does not mean that it never needs to be replaced. If low quality or contaminated fuel was used in the car, the filter can get plugged pretty easily.

[bronsin]

How do I change the fuel filter? I was told it wasn't supposed to be changed as its in tank..

Its not an item that is changed to a schedule. It is serviced only when theres a problem. Unless there is a problem it will avail you of nothing to change it.

I have heard the FF isn't available separately. It only comes with a new fuel pump.

[sebastianroher]

Have you had this hard starting issue? I've seen it on here before but no one ever seems to be able to figure it out. I've put new plugs, camshaft pos sensor, oil change, marvel mystery oil, etc. I don't know what to try now. And I don't want to throw parts at it.

[CTScott]

The filter can be changed separate of the pump and is about $40. Toyota only sells it as part of the fuel suction assembly, but aftermarket ones are readily available.

The whole Toyota assembly is 77024-52180 and it is about $130. I believe that Toyota sells it that way to prevent people from having to separate the flexible hose that goes from the fuel filter to the top plate.

[sebastianroher]

Scott, have you changed the filter before? Is it a pain?

[CTScott]

Scott, have you changed the filter before? Is it a pain?

I have never needed to change a filter, but I have taken apart the fuel system on a few occasions. Here's a DIY that I did on dropping the tank from below (to avoid making a mess inside the car):

www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46986

This is what it looks like removed. The fuel filter is the round plastic canister in the center of the sender. The fuel pump sits up inside of it.
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49275&d=1355333427

[sebastianroher]

Scott, my car won't start at ALL now!!! I really need help on diagnosing this!!!!

[Bluevitz-rs]

What's the state of charge of the battery? Have you left it on a charger for a while to make sure that's not causing the issues?

[sebastianroher]

It's not the battery. We just bought a duralast gold top battery about a week ago when we first got the car.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Have you check for any codes?

[sebastianroher]

Yeah it was throwing random multiple misfire when it was running yesterday. Today it will crank but not start. It throws ignition coil circuit malfunction PO351-PO354 so I was thinking maybe crank sensor? I just don't want to keep throwing parts at this thing.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Make sure the coil plugs are fully seated and on the correct coils.


Sent from my iPod Touch

[Bluevitz-rs]

Those codes indicate there is a short or open circuit on coils 1 and 4. Swap 2 and 3 with 1 and 4 and see if the code follows.


Sent from my iPod Touch

[sebastianroher]

You mean the wires are plugged into the correct coils? I don't think you can really mix them up because of the length of the wire. I'm thinking more along the lines of a sensor or something. The symptoms match crank sensor to the t. But I don't have a multimeter so I have to take the sensor to work to check it.

[Bluevitz-rs]

If there was a sensor problem, you would have an associated code. The computer won't give you ignition coil codes for a crank sensor problem.


Sent from my iPod Touch

[sebastianroher]

Yeah but I'm telling you the wires didn't get switched around. It is damn near impossible for that to happen because of the length. They make them pretty idiot proof. Also, I don't think my coils are bad as they throw the same codes even when I switch them around. I don't understand how there would be an open or short on the coils. Can you explain what I need to look for?

[Bluevitz-rs]

There could be damage to the wires or connectors for those coils then. Have someone crank the engine while you wiggle those connectors.


Sent from my iPod Touch

[sebastianroher]

I will check it out tomorrow and see what happens. I just don't think that they would all be damaged. I can see maybe one, but multiple? What are the odds?

[Bluevitz-rs]

If someone have tried pulling those connectors off by the wires the could have been damaged. Or by using some pliers to pull the connectors off and slipped. Also a good idea to examine for corrosion inside each connection.


Sent from my iPod Touch

[CTScott]

If there was a sensor problem, you would have an associated code. The computer won't give you ignition coil codes for a crank sensor problem.


Sent from my iPod Touch

You have to look at his other three threads and a pile of PMs. Besides the codes he is seeing now, his compression measures bad on cylinders 2 and 3.

Also, P0351-P0354 can be caused by the Oil control valve not working due to being plugged up. That is the round device mounted next the alternator. It also has a fine mesh filter mounted into the block below it.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Yeah except malfunction coils will definitely cause a no start situation. You can unplug the oil control valve and the car will still run as if nothing is wrong.

[CTScott]

Yeah except malfunction coils will definitely cause a no start situation. You can unplug the oil control valve and the car will still run as if nothing is wrong.

The no start started after he replaced the cam sensor though. Prior to that he just had random misfires.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Cam sensor is essential for starting. So something is wrong with it still that would definitely cause it not to start.


Sent from my iPod Touch

[Bluevitz-rs]

Can you see an AC singnal with a basic volt meter I wonder while cranking on that sensor?


Sent from my iPod Touch

[CTScott]

Can you see an AC singnal with a basic volt meter I wonder while cranking on that sensor?


Sent from my iPod Touch

Yes. With a voltmeter set to AC you would be able to see that the sensor has an output. It would really just be a crude working/not working, but even that should help.

[sebastianroher]

I thought the old sensor was bad because of the oil coming out of it? I'm going to check the resistance of the crank sensor today at work

[sebastianroher]

Scott, I'm going to buy a cylinder head and have it put on. Any recommendations on head or gaskets?

[CTScott]

Scott, I'm going to buy a cylinder head and have it put on. Any recommendations on head or gaskets?

I think the OEM gaskets are the safest bet. For the head, just make sure that you get it from someplace that has a good reputation for remanufactured heads. I have never had to buy one that way (I have had a few reground over the years, but never actually replaced one),so I am not sure where to steer you on that one.

[sebastianroher]

I was thinking advance? They sell one for $300 cams included you just gotta switch over the VVT module

[CTScott]

I was thinking advance? They sell one for $300 cams included you just gotta switch over the VVT module

Wow! I have paid less than that for used, low mileage engines, but it is a crapshoot when you buy used. If it comes with the cams installed and the valves pre-adjusted, then you will save yourself quite a bit of time.

[sebastianroher]

Lol in that case, you should find me an engine!

[sebastianroher]

I'm gonna pay someone to do it.