Yaris VS MX5 showdown

[ivanstepul]

My brother just got a 2003 mx5 6 speed manual and I had the brilliant idea of going to a solo event to prove which one is better. What do you guys think, which car will come out on top.

Yaris mods
intake
obx header
exhaust
trd short shifter
tein springs
17 inch wheels with 205/45/17 performance tires
weight reduction -100lbs (rear seats and spare tire+jack)

MX5 mods
none its stock 2003 special edition with 6 speed manual

[CrankyOldMan]

The correct way to do that is to have the same driver run both cars (i.e. the Stig) on the same track. Preferably one that the driver is already familiar with and can consistently make the same runs (within a 10th of a second or so) with any given vehicle. Otherwise there are too many variables to be able to declare a "best" vehicle.

[428CobraJet]

The best vehicle? THE MIGHTY YARIS, NATURALLY!

[kimona]

The Miata is a brilliant little car. It's quick and incredibly nimble. The manual shift and clutch are perhaps the best I've ever driven. If only Mazda would wrap the Miata in hatchback clothing!

[ivanstepul]

The correct way to do that is to have the same driver run both cars (i.e. the Stig) on the same track. Preferably one that the driver is already familiar with and can consistently make the same runs (within a 10th of a second or so) with any given vehicle. Otherwise there are too many variables to be able to declare a "best" vehicle.

This is going to be some brother to brother competition so its going to be a close one. Im driving the yaris and my bro will man the mx5. I know its going to come down to skill and both of us have never done a solo event. But last time he bet me $50 that I couldn't beat 16 sec in a quarter and I did that so. This is going to be interesting. I will post video and pics after the showdown happens.

[ivanstepul]

The best vehicle? THE MIGHTY YARIS, NATURALLY!

Hells yea:headbang::burnrubber:

[4MPG]

My brother just got a 2003 mx5 6 speed manual and I had the brilliant idea of going to a solo event to prove which one is better. What do you guys think, which car will come out on top.

Yaris mods
intake
obx header
exhaust
trd short shifter
tein springs
17 inch wheels with 205/45/17 performance tires
weight reduction -100lbs (rear seats and spare tire+jack)

MX5 mods
none its stock 2003 special edition with 6 speed manual

I'm sorry, but this isn't even going to be remotely close unless youre a pro driver and your bro doesn't have a clue.

The MX5 wheelhouse is the track, the shorter and tighter the track the better.

[sheekeebut]

Mx-5 will likely have better lap times, but as OP asked, which will come out on top? I'd say the one who can probably keep up driving the technically inferior car, AND pack a tasty lunch, change of shirt, tools, an extra set of tires, floor jack, a subwoofer and maybe a girlfriend for the ride home.

[CoryM]

Which car will come out on top? The miata. As someone who races against them on a regular basis, there is no question the miata is the faster autoX car. That being said, the yaris is easier for a novice to drive and if it has much better tires, may win.

If you want to be competitive, co-drive each car and then you'll know who is the better driver (and have fun).
Cheers.

[Jcp123]

In sporting terms, the Miata being a purpose-built little speedster, it will obviously outshine the Yaris, a purpose-built economy car.

It terms of what makes a better DD, the Yaris' fuel economy and hatchback versatility will put the Miata to shame.

[sheekeebut]

ivanstepul, if you want to make it fair for the cars, you have to drive the mx-5. Judging from your setup, I bet you can smoke your own car in less than two laps' practice.

[ivanstepul]

I agree the yaris is definitely the under dog in this situation. I will try my best and not destroy my car over the day. Any suggestions for first time beginners. What tools to bring and what to expect can go wrong with the car, so I can be ready ahead of time.

[sheekeebut]

Suggestions: enjoy yourselves. if you've got a wager going, remember how much repairs might cost trying to win it
What tools: wheel and tire stuff

Do you left foot brake? Autocross would be a perfect time to use it. If you don't, there's no time to learn it before going against your brother.

[Jason@SportsCar]

My brother just got a 2003 mx5 6 speed manual and I had the brilliant idea of going to a solo event to prove which one is better. What do you guys think, which car will come out on top.

Yaris mods
intake
obx header
exhaust
trd short shifter
tein springs
17 inch wheels with 205/45/17 performance tires
weight reduction -100lbs (rear seats and spare tire+jack)

MX5 mods
none its stock 2003 special edition with 6 speed manual

All of the upgrades in your list will be killed by the 17" wheels, to big and heavy, a 15x7 with a 195 or 205 would be quicker. That said, none of it matters, a Yaris with bolts ons like you describe will never beat a stock MX-5. Look no further than the Solo Natls results, STF can't touch ES or CS, and that is what you are effectively trying to do.

[ilikerice]

Yea, what Jason said. Even if you are going by Pax. His pax is better than your pax. By removing your rear seat that will put you in SMF. Unless the locals don't really care, then they will probably let you run STF.

Which performance tires are you using? The 17" wheel is going to hurt your acceleration pretty bad.

[ivanstepul]

Suggestions: enjoy yourselves. if you've got a wager going, remember how much repairs might cost trying to win it
What tools: wheel and tire stuff

Do you left foot brake? Autocross would be a perfect time to use it. If you don't, there's no time to learn it before going against your brother.

I dont left foot brake but i know how to heel toe a lil bit

[ivanstepul]

All of the upgrades in your list will be killed by the 17" wheels, to big and heavy, a 15x7 with a 195 or 205 would be quicker. That said, none of it matters, a Yaris with bolts ons like you describe will never beat a stock MX-5. Look no further than the Solo Natls results, STF can't touch ES or CS, and that is what you are effectively trying to do.

I dont understand the stf es or cs business. Are those different classes? Im just trying to put up a faster time and do whatever it takes. The 17 that I have are heavier than the 15 inch wheels i have but i have wider tires on the 17s i feel like i have more grip with those wheels tires. The tires that I'm currently running are GT Radial Champiro UHP1 205 /45 R17 88W XL BSW.

[Jason@SportsCar]

I dont understand the stf es or cs business. Are those different classes? Im just trying to put up a faster time and do whatever it takes. The 17 that I have are heavier than the 15 inch wheels i have but i have wider tires on the 17s i feel like i have more grip with those wheels tires. The tires that I'm currently running are GT Radial Champiro UHP1 205 /45 R17 88W XL BSW.

Those are SCCA Solo classes - this match up you seek is played out every weekend around the cournty... A Yaris modded like your list, less the interior removal, would be in STF. Stockish Miatas are in CS and ES, both of which are quicker. The Miata has more power (even after your mods), less weight, RWD, and way better suspension. End game.

You accomplished nothing by going to a 17" other than aesthetics. Same width 15" wheel/combo will beat the 17" every time, the 15" carries less weight and offers a gearing advantage.

[ivanstepul]

Those are SCCA Solo classes - this match up you seek is played out every weekend around the cournty... A Yaris modded like your list, less the interior removal, would be in STF. Stockish Miatas are in CS and ES, both of which are quicker. The Miata has more power (even after your mods), less weight, RWD, and way better suspension. End game.

You accomplished nothing by going to a 17" other than aesthetics. Same width 15" wheel/combo will beat the 17" every time, the 15" carries less weight and offers a gearing advantage.

I am guaranteed to be faster if I run the 185/15/65 vs the 205/17/45 right?

[Jason@SportsCar]

so i will be faster if i run the 185/15/65 vs the 205/17/45?

No, I said same width, you also need to get the aspect ratio down. Some of the good street tires only come in a 195-50-15, but that is still going to be quicker than a 205-17. Your 17"s are more than an 1" taller than stock, that is a massive hit to acceleration, as well as the impact on handling due to increased height.

I know its not what you want to hear, but you have a losing battle on your hands.

[ilikerice]

Not all is lost... you may be a much better driver than he is...

you could run 2 runs in you own cars, 2 runs in each others cars, and then run your last runs in your own cars again.. then you could really see how much different they are and get a better determination of which car is faster...

[ivanstepul]

so I need new tires for the 15s. Which size is better 205/50 or 195/50

[CrankyOldMan]

A better question is, "what is your tire budget, and what class will you be in?"

A decent set of high performance summer tires will probably be about $400. For slicks, expect close to $1k. On 15x7's, I would go with 195/50R15. Brand and model are ultimately up to you, but the Dunlop DZ II Star Spec is a solid choice. The Toyo Proxes R1R is another good choice. If you want the smallest investment, I ran the DZ102s last summer as street tires and was pleased with them.

[Jcp123]

I'm rather partial to Michelin Pilot Super Sports, though not sure on the sizes here. And they are spendy...

[invader166]

Sorry, saw this video today and felt like I have to share it. lmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5XC3A99_o

[Jcp123]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5bT4hJ4B6M

Current tires are the wrong shape.

[ilikerice]

If class and price does not matter, get these
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hoosier&tireModel=A7&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=05ZR5A7&tab=Sizes

if you want to stick with Street Touring FWD, keep the back seat in and get one of these sets
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Rival+S&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=05WR5GFRS&tab=Sizes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+R1R&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=955VR5PR1RV2&tab=Sizes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+R-S3+%28Version+2%29&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=95VR5Z222XLV2&tab=Sizes

[Ben_]

The car with better tires will win. A yaris with 195 50 15 r 200utg tires will beat a miata with all season tires. I've done it. The mods you have on the yaris will make it competitive vs a stock if you are comparing raw times and not pax times since you will be in stf with your mods and you aren't taking advantage of that classes legal mods. Get those r compounds and drive like the stig and you will win

As far as 205 vs 195 it is super important to match tire size to your rim width. Running 205 on a stock 5.5 wide rim is worse than 195 but on a 7 inch rim the 205 will shine. Car setup on the auto x can sometimes be confusing and work the opposite way logic would say. On stock width rims 185 or even 175 would be a better choice but those sizes aren't available in competitive models of tires

[Ben_]

I still beat miatas with similar tires because I've put in my time and became a better driver than others

[ilikerice]

http://www.buccaneerregion.com/ce-3-15.html

Yes, this is true what Ben says. Scroll down to about half way and look up the Raw times. I have become a much better driver from doing driver schools and attending as many events as I possibly can.

[justjesus]

Given similar driver ability, I got my money on the Miata.

Grip means nothing, if you can't get up to the speed where you need it. Those 17s, like others have said, are heavy.

I recently replaced my 16" Team Dynamics with my lightweight 15" RacingHarts... I had forgotten how much more fun the lighter combination is! Acceleration is much better. Another benefit: My avg MPG went up 5mpg. :)

[Ben_]

Tell us how things go! I would love to hear about your experience!

[ivanstepul]

yea so I looked up the scca solo schedule for illinois and they dont have any events planned til mid summer, so this sux.

[ilikerice]

Central Illinois Region has an event coming up May 23rd
http://cir-scca.org/cir-soloii.html

Milwaukee Region is also having one on May 24th.
http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/solo/2015/15sched.html

Not sure if you guys are willing to drive that far.

I see there is a PDX track day coming up on May 23rd also. Those are always fun
http://www.motorsportreg.com/events/chicago-scca-pdx-2015-1-autobahn-country-club-636717