Just bought a 2008 Hatchback Manual Tranny and it shifts really strange

[way way norcal]

I have been driving manual transmissions since I was a wee lad. This is the strangest shifting vehicle I have ever shifted.
When I am at a stop and ready to go I push in the clutch and I have to give it a fair amount of throttle to keep it from stalling. Normally when you are at a level stop and you push in the clutch as you let out the clutch the rpms are enough to pull forward with very little throttle. If I am at a stop I have to be very careful or it will stall out. I have to ride the clutch and rev into the 1500 rpm range to get to find the sweet spot. And, when I go in reverse I have to give it gas or it will bog down and stall out. When I shift from first to second as I let off gas and push in the clutch the rpms go up slightly and then drop when I release the clutch.
None of these symptoms say to me it is a worn pressure plate. The strangest thing is when the air conditioning is on it actually shifts normally like it should.
Does any one have any idea what on earth is going on here?
I am thinking the idle might be a bit low but I don't know for sure

[rocketyaris b3]

ive had my car since 2008. if im reading it correctly, ur car is acting pretty normal.

[Kalispel]

I have been driving manual transmissions since I was a wee lad. This is the strangest shifting vehicle I have ever shifted.
When I am at a stop and ready to go I push in the clutch and I have to give it a fair amount of throttle to keep it from stalling. Normally when you are at a level stop and you push in the clutch as you let out the clutch the rpms are enough to pull forward with very little throttle. If I am at a stop I have to be very careful or it will stall out. I have to ride the clutch and rev into the 1500 rpm range to get to find the sweet spot. And, when I go in reverse I have to give it gas or it will bog down and stall out. When I shift from first to second as I let off gas and push in the clutch the rpms go up slightly and then drop when I release the clutch.
None of these symptoms say to me it is a worn pressure plate. The strangest thing is when the air conditioning is on it actually shifts normally like it should.
Does any one have any idea what on earth is going on here?
I am thinking the idle might be a bit low but I don't know for sure

Unfortunately, it would seem that Toyota didn't bother to give the Yaris "friendly clutch" mechanics until the 2015 refresh. I wonder if people with 2007-2014 Yaris could request the redesigned 2015 version clutch if/when they ever needed/wanted to change out their clutch?

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[Mongoose7]

Yep, been driving a standard tranny for 35 years, and it took me the good part of the first year with my 2007 Yaris to learn how to shift it, it's way different than most any other car.
Mike

[way way norcal]

thats actually a relief! I thought there was something wrong with it. It is noticeable enough I really thought there was something that needed adjusting.
Is there anything like bumping up the idle or adjusting the freeplay on the pedal that help things a bit?
And what is the best method for shifting it correctly?

[Kar98]

Another vote for, been driving manuals for decades, and the Yaris clutch is the first one that you need to operate just like it said in the driver's manual for the novice driver, just like yours, OP.

[way way norcal]

didnt get a drivers manual with it. The original owner is looking for it and will supposedly send it when she finds it.

[CoryM]

Yep, the Yaris clutch is probably (IMO) the worst part of the car. The slow throttle-body doesn't help much either. Nor does the engine being so quiet, and easy to stall. My clutch is now broken from driving for 3yrs on R-comp tires: Imagine what you have, but the engagement point changes at random. Sometimes it engages close to the floor, sometimes near the top. I'll be doing the clutch soon......

Interestingly enough my clutch isn't damaged from launching hard, but from tire slippage then biting HARD in corners. I think the previous owner took some life out of it too. I'm curious to see what a Luk clutch will do for the feel of the clutch because I'm sure not going to try an OE one again.

[andrew109340]

Personally....I don't mind the clutch. Yes, you have to blindly rev high enough (because I have no RPM guage) but I got used to it. The clutch does require smooth transitions....I have a 2009 and it reminds me of my first car, a '94 Accord....

That's what I learned on. Driving these newer cars with 6 speeds, reverse on the other side and not needing to gas it while changing gears confuses me.

[bronsin]

Unfortunately theres no way to adjust this clutch and I get the feeling it wouldn't help if there was.

[IllusionX]

The drive by wire and the usual low RPM does not help either.

With AC on, because the compressor takes some HP out of your engine, and keep idle a bit higher than usual, you don't experience this issue.

When shifting from 1 to 2, rpm does up because you did not let go the throttle soon enough... Again, DBW issue. There is nothing you can do, and you can only adjust yourself to this.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Kar98]

didnt get a drivers manual with it. The original owner is looking for it and will supposedly send it when she finds it.

I didn't mean an owner's manual specifically for your Yaris. I was referring to how novice drivers are being taught to operate a manual transmission. Slowly increase RPM, gently let out the clutch and as if by magic, the car starts moving. Every other car I had, the clutch was pretty much on/off. Stomp on the gas, pop the clutch, and off you go. With the Yaris, you have to follow "proper procedure."

[way way norcal]

I'm learning

[BLKHILLSGUY]

That's how my 11 Yaris was. And I constantly killed it in 1st gear. And I've driven manuals all my life. My first car was a manual 91 Ford Festiva. My 15 Yaris SE is a huge improvement in the manual from my 11. They put a new clutch in the car for 15.

[way way norcal]

i wonder if you can upgrade the clutch in the earlier years? Someone has asked that question somewhere. I am sure.

[miami]

same issue with my '07. When you turned on the a/c, launched much easier!

[nookandcrannycar]

i wonder if you can upgrade the clutch in the earlier years? Someone has asked that question somewhere. I am sure.

I'm wondering the same thing as well. I wonder if going TRD would do the trick?

[Rigaud]

Yes you can upgrade. Get a stage 1 preformance clutch, well worth it. I installed a stage 2, forgot what brand but I'll look it up and post later unless someone else who did the same chimes in.

[nookandcrannycar]

Yes you can upgrade. Get a stage 1 preformance clutch, well worth it. I installed a stage 2, forgot what brand but I'll look it up and post later unless someone else who did the same chimes in.

:thumbsup: Thanks in advance, that would be great.

[Rigaud]

Exedy Stage 1

[nookandcrannycar]

Exedy Stage 1

Wow, that was fast! Thanks again :thumbsup:.

[way way norcal]

Wow, that was fast! Thanks again :thumbsup:.
Yes thanks for that! That will be my first mod on this little rig! :biggrin:

[MadMax]

I test drove a manual...and bought an automatic!

Despite the claims that an auto is less fun to drive, I have a great time driving mine. It has enough pick up and if I really want to get involved in shifting gears, I just do so with the auto; but the nice thing is when I'm stuck in traffic, I don't have to deal with that awful clutch!

[way way norcal]

are they any tech writeups on this forum on how to R and R a clutch on a 2008?
I did a search and couldn't find one

[miami]

The awful clutch, together with the laggy electronic throttle, cramped seating position and footwell, uncomfortable seats, and lack of tachometer makes the car the least fun/comfortable manual transmission cars I have ever driven.

[BLKHILLSGUY]

The awful clutch, together with the laggy electronic throttle, cramped seating position and footwell, uncomfortable seats, and lack of tachometer makes the car the least fun/comfortable manual transmission cars I have ever driven.

Looks like you should look at the 15 models. ALL of these areas have been greatly improved. The seats are incredibly comfortable. As comfortable as my Avalon Limited.

[nookandcrannycar]

I test drove a manual...and bought an automatic!

Despite the claims that an auto is less fun to drive, I have a great time driving mine. It has enough pick up and if I really want to get involved in shifting gears, I just do so with the auto; but the nice thing is when I'm stuck in traffic, I don't have to deal with that awful clutch!

Just out of curiosity, does your Jeep have a manual transmission :biggrin:?

[attrapereves]

Yep, the Yaris clutch is probably (IMO) the worst part of the car. The slow throttle-body doesn't help much either. Nor does the engine being so quiet, and easy to stall. My clutch is now broken from driving for 3yrs on R-comp tires: Imagine what you have, but the engagement point changes at random. Sometimes it engages close to the floor, sometimes near the top. I'll be doing the clutch soon......

Interestingly enough my clutch isn't damaged from launching hard, but from tire slippage then biting HARD in corners. I think the previous owner took some life out of it too. I'm curious to see what a Luk clutch will do for the feel of the clutch because I'm sure not going to try an OE one again.

Can you explain what you mean about killing the clutch from tire slippage?

The clutch is the worst part of the Yaris. My previous Chevy Sonic (which had an issue with grinding going into 2nd) was light years better than this Yaris clutch.

[CoryM]

Can you explain what you mean about killing the clutch from tire slippage?

It's not the slipping that hurts it, it's the sudden traction afterwards. I daily-drive (and autoX) on DOT race tires. The raw grip of these tires is far beyond what "street" tires can do. So: going around a corner hard, gas pedal to the floor to pull the car out of the corner, the inside tire spins due to weight-transfer/body-roll, then bites very hard as the weight goes back onto the inside tire. This causes a shock to the clutch similar to if you were to let the clutch out very abruptly. This usually wears/breaks the torsional springs in the clutch disc, which are there to soak up shock loads and vibration.

It's going to be about a month before I get a chance to do my clutch, but I am curious to see what it's going to look like :biggrin:

Cheers.

[MadMax]

Just out of curiosity, does your Jeep have a manual transmission :biggrin:?

Yep, better offroad. Most competition rigs use automatics now...:thumbsup:

[nookandcrannycar]

Yep, better offroad. Most competition rigs use automatics now...:thumbsup:

:smile: The reason I asked is that it might be easier to...'accept' (:laugh:)....an automatic Yaris if one had another vehicle that had a manual transmission.

[attrapereves]

It's not the slipping that hurts it, it's the sudden traction afterwards. I daily-drive (and autoX) on DOT race tires. The raw grip of these tires is far beyond what "street" tires can do. So: going around a corner hard, gas pedal to the floor to pull the car out of the corner, the inside tire spins due to weight-transfer/body-roll, then bites very hard as the weight goes back onto the inside tire. This causes a shock to the clutch similar to if you were to let the clutch out very abruptly. This usually wears/breaks the torsional springs in the clutch disc, which are there to soak up shock loads and vibration.

It's going to be about a month before I get a chance to do my clutch, but I am curious to see what it's going to look like :biggrin:

Cheers.

Question about that. I was teaching my wife how to drive a manual today and once or twice she accidentally revved it to 4000rpm, then launched the car screeching the tires. I'm assuming this wears the clutch significantly?

Also, sometimes when I shift into 2nd my car will jerk a little bit. Does this jerking cause clutch wear?

[CoryM]

Question about that. I was teaching my wife how to drive a manual today and once or twice she accidentally revved it to 4000rpm, then launched the car screeching the tires. I'm assuming this wears the clutch significantly?

Also, sometimes when I shift into 2nd my car will jerk a little bit. Does this jerking cause clutch wear?

Heh. Teaching people to drive manual is fun huh?

It's definitely not great for the clutch but, so long as the clutch is in good shape to begin with, not going to kill it while she learns. If you weren't smelling burnt clutch (strong, acrid smell that lingers), you aren't wearing the clutch too badly. If she were to continue to drive like that you would see reduced clutch life but it should be fine while teaching her. It takes time to get smooth.

Jerking should not cause wear of the friction surface, but will cause minute wear of the parts of the clutch that are there to absorb the shock loads. Nothing to worry about as you will always get the occasional poor shift. The clutches are designed with this in mind, and have a mechanism to deal with small shock loads. That being said, the smoother you can drive the more life you will get out of nearly every part of the car.

End of the day, the Yaris is hard on clutches. You need to ride the clutch a fair bit to get going, and with the poor pedal feel it can be hard to be smooth on shifts. I wouldn't worry much as the clutches still last a long time in these cars even with that. Mine is only broken because I am subjecting it to abnormally high shock loads from the race-tires. I am a mechanic though so repairs are cheap/easy :tongue: .

Cheers.

[attrapereves]

To replace the clutch in the Yaris, do you have to remove the engine? How much should the clutch replacement cost on average?

[miami]

Looks like you should look at the 15 models. ALL of these areas have been greatly improved. The seats are incredibly comfortable. As comfortable as my Avalon Limited.

Good to know! I heard they swapped out the clutch for '15, which is great. I am not in the market for a new car, but a '15 Yaris will be a great buy in the future, it sounds like.

[CoryM]

To replace the clutch in the Yaris, do you have to remove the engine? How much should the clutch replacement cost on average?

You remove the transmission to replace the clutch. It's fairly involved on the Yaris. I think the book labour time is nearly 7hrs. You're probably looking at $700-1000 depending on where you take it and, if you need a new flywheel, it may cost another $300-400 on top. Not cheap, but rarely required and the reliability of the Yaris otherwise makes up for it.


I don't think anyone has actually touched on why the Yaris clutch sucks so bad. The reason is because there is absolutely no feel right? When wearing workboots I literally cannot feel the engagement point of the clutch because the pedal is so light. The main reason for this is the diaphragm spring on the pressure plate are very light. This is the essentially the part that your foot is pushing against (after a bit of hydraulics and leverage). So get a clutch with heavier diaphragm springs would make a big difference. As mentioned before, performance clutches feel better because they have heavy diaphragm springs to give better clamping force on the clutch disc. I have not tried one in a Yaris yet, but it should make a world of difference in pedal feel. A performance clutch is probably a very good idea for people who just want better clutch feel than OE.

That being said, I don't know that I want one in my car :laugh: I've learned from past experiences that clutches are cheap compared to transmissions. From much higher horsepower cars than the Yaris, but I typically run weak clutches in my cars so that the clutch breaks before the transmission etc. Clutches are cheap compared to hard parts.

Cheers.

Also, this is an excellent video on how clutches work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY

[attrapereves]

Thanks for the info. I know in some cars you have to remove the engine, or at least raise it to be able to remove the transmission for clutch replacement.

On another note, my dad replaced the clutch in his VW beetle and had the entire transmission on his chest. underneath the car. It was a sight to see. I think all repairs on a beetle can be done with a socket set and a screwdriver.

[IllusionX]

Thanks for the info. I know in some cars you have to remove the engine, or at least raise it to be able to remove the transmission for clutch replacement.

On another note, my dad replaced the clutch in his VW beetle and had the entire transmission on his chest. underneath the car. It was a sight to see. I think all repairs on a beetle can be done with a socket set and a screwdriver.
The 2 cylinder air cooled engine? It doesn't take much to get that engine going. Lol

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[miami]

I don't think anyone has actually touched on why the Yaris clutch sucks so bad. The reason is because there is absolutely no feel right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY

No feel, and the fact that the torque/intertia phase is too short coupled with the laggy throttle response equals the following experience: disengage clutch, shift into gear, begin engaging clutch, no sense of clutch engagement, clutch begins to engage but very quickly, give throttle to compensate, throttle response delayed, car begins to bog, throttle overcompensates, clutch judders and finally engages abruptly with slight shock.

[way way norcal]

You remove the transmission to replace the clutch. It's fairly involved on the Yaris. I think the book labour time is nearly 7hrs. You're probably looking at $700-1000 depending on where you take it and, if you need a new flywheel, it may cost another $300-400 on top. Not cheap, but rarely required and the reliability of the Yaris otherwise makes up for it.


I don't think anyone has actually touched on why the Yaris clutch sucks so bad. The reason is because there is absolutely no feel right? When wearing workboots I literally cannot feel the engagement point of the clutch because the pedal is so light. The main reason for this is the diaphragm spring on the pressure plate are very light. This is the essentially the part that your foot is pushing against (after a bit of hydraulics and leverage). So get a clutch with heavier diaphragm springs would make a big difference. As mentioned before, performance clutches feel better because they have heavy diaphragm springs to give better clamping force on the clutch disc. I have not tried one in a Yaris yet, but it should make a world of difference in pedal feel. A performance clutch is probably a very good idea for people who just want better clutch feel than OE.

That being said, I don't know that I want one in my car :laugh: I've learned from past experiences that clutches are cheap compared to transmissions. From much higher horsepower cars than the Yaris, but I typically run weak clutches in my cars so that the clutch breaks before the transmission etc. Clutches are cheap compared to hard parts.

Cheers.

Also, this is an excellent video on how clutches work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY

Does the tranny drop out from under the car or do you pull it from the top up?

[Kar98]

The 2 cylinder air cooled engine? It doesn't take much to get that engine going. Lol

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Aircooled Beetle always had a flat four cylinder engine, never just two.

[CoryM]

Does the tranny drop out from under the car or do you pull it from the top up?

Underneath. You have to remove the subframe as well. At least I'll be able to put my larger front swaybar on finally....

[Idahotom]

I've learned, especially when stopped at a busy intersection on a hill, to turn the radio down. It helps me anyway as the thing is so quiet and the clutch action so tricky, or maybe it's that electronic throttle, or all of the above..... No big deal, a small price to pay for such a great little rig, I've gotten used to it. Driving it the short distance from my place to the nearby ski area while wearing my snowboarding boots gets real interesting, but still workable.

[nookandcrannycar]

nearby ski area

*sigh*.....pretty much no such thing in Texas :cry: (unless you live in or near El Paso), but this is still a great state in so many other ways :thumbsup:.

[way way norcal]

I've learned, especially when stopped at a busy intersection on a hill, to turn the radio down. It helps me anyway as the thing is so quiet and the clutch action so tricky, or maybe it's that electronic throttle, or all of the above..... No big deal, a small price to pay for such a great little rig, I've gotten used to it. Driving it the short distance from my place to the nearby ski area while wearing my snowboarding boots gets real interesting, but still workable.

EXACCCTTLYY...what I do! I stalled mine a few times in bad traffic. Once in San Francisco. Not good.
I am getting the hang of it. Slowly

[BLKHILLSGUY]

I've learned, especially when stopped at a busy intersection on a hill, to turn the radio down. It helps me anyway as the thing is so quiet and the clutch action so tricky, or maybe it's that electronic throttle, or all of the above..... No big deal, a small price to pay for such a great little rig, I've gotten used to it. Driving it the short distance from my place to the nearby ski area while wearing my snowboarding boots gets real interesting, but still workable.

Good advice. I often like the radio off when I'm driving. I like to listen to the sound of the engine. Usually around town. Interstate I use the radio or Bluetooth.

[CoryM]

Just an update: I installed a LUK clutch recently. The pedal feel is the same as OE, with maybe 10% more effort required. The OE clutch is SERIOUSLY heavy-duty. It's no wonder they last so long. The trade-off is that they are heavy. The LUK is much lighter and gives a small, but noticeable, increase in acceleration. It would probably only last half as long as an OE clutch with normal driving though.

I was thinking of trying a smaller slave cylinder bore to improve the pedal feel. Toyota has used this two-bolt style for a long time so it may be possible to find one that bolts on. The smaller bore will make the pedal effort higher, and may allow more feel. Trade-off is that it will release at a higher point in the pedal.


I also had two captivated nuts for the subframe bolts spin, so had to drill holes in my floor to fix it :bs:

[Squid111999]

My old manual 535 was amazing even with me being a beginner to a manual trans car. What kind of throttle linkage (hopefully the right term)? There's been quite a learning curve to getting used to working the gas and clutch.

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[way way norcal]

.

I was thinking of trying a smaller slave cylinder bore to improve the pedal feel. Toyota has used this two-bolt style for a long time so it may be possible to find one that bolts on. The smaller bore will make the pedal effort higher, and may allow more feel. Trade-off is that it will release at a higher point in the pedal.


:bs:

that might be interesting. If you do that modification let us know

[CoryM]

that might be interesting. If you do that modification let us know

Looking into it, the Yaris slave already has a very small bore. I doubt we will find one smaller. So a larger master that bolts up is the next bet, which seems unlikely. I'll keep looking.