Off limits manufacturers

[attrapereves]

What car manufacturers will you not touch with a 10 foot pole? Is this because of personal experience or reputation?

Here are mine:


Chrysler: Their poor reputation along with their FIAT partnership makes me stay away. On the bright side, my parents have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee with almost 200,000mi with absolutely no problems.

Ford: I've just never been a Ford fan

VW: I like many of their vehicles, but the poor reputation and quality keep me away.

[bairjo]

I hate working on Chryslers. Jeeps are junk. Ford has come a long way and seem ok in my book...just don't like their styles now.

GM...I used to be solid GM till my last blazer...rattles and squeaks all over the place.
And then this...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjACahUKEwiH353EjoLIAhVEHT4KHfRvCVM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticl es%2F2014-04-30%2Fu-s-lost-11-2-billion-on-gm-bailout-latest-tarp-report-says&usg=AFQjCNHZhzFLp6cMGOADwcRUOgKuYguUxw

VW...this is not cool...
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/09/18/epa-says-vw-intentionally-violates-clean-air-standards/?intcmp=hplnws

[NYC-SE]

VW: from personal experience. NEVER again.

[nookandcrannycar]

GM. Plus the Chrysler part of Fiat Chrysler. Because of the government bailout and Obama interfering with the rule of law...giving the bondholders the finger and gifting that equity to the union.

[nookandcrannycar]

:laugh:....and I thought I was going to get in the first response on the thread...but three of us were composing at the same time and I was the slowpoke :laugh:

[Kalispel]

Growing up in the 70's and 80's, I just don't trust American-brand automakers. I like some of their newer styling on various cars, such as the Fusion, Focus, Dart and such, but just won't go there. Plus, I'm not enamored by the fact that the typical American CEO is paid 200-700x the pay of the average backbone worker in the company, on average, while in Japan the ratio is more like 50-75x. I'm also not a fan of oligarchical corporatism run amok, without strict ethical rules/considerations, and where big corporations can buy government off and pull the puppet strings of society. Sorry, veered off course a bit there. :laugh:

I like a lot of German/European styling (like various VW, Audi, etc.), but similarly do not trust their long-term quality. Plus, they are allowing certain destructive, incompatible elements to overrun their countries. I see a global economic collapse in our near future.

Most Korean styling isn't my cup of tea, and I think that I will always view them as cut-rate Japanese automakers. They are about on par with Japanese automakers like Mitsubishi as far as I am concerned. Plus, they have a bizarre/unhealthy culture, with many misplaced priorities - just like America.

I would never, ever buy a Chinese car, period - for reasons too numerous to list here. Same goes for other Chinese products in general.

Luxury-brand cars like Lexus, Acura, etc. are pretty to look at, for the most part, but they are overpriced, and loaded with so much tech bloat that they just turn me off more often than not. I don't need to drive an overpriced, over-equipped car to feel good about myself. Plus, they make you a target for all the crazies and crooks running around today.

I want to like Nissan, Mazda, and Subaru, but they always seem to trail Toyota/Honda in overall quality. Hell, even Honda seems to be a shadow of their former selves, with 15 years or so of chronic/sporadic problems with automatic transmissions, brakes, manufacturing defects, etc.

Sadly enough, I doubt that there are even a half-dozen new cars that I would be willing to buy currently. :cry: Luckily, I am fortunate enough to be driving the exact car that I want right now, and everything else is a distant 2nd-choice for me.

[attrapereves]

Growing up in the 70's and 80's, I just don't trust American-brand automakers. I like some of their newer styling on various cars, such as the Fusion, Focus, Dart and such, but just won't go there. Plus, I'm not enamored by the fact that the typical American CEO is paid 200-700x the pay of the average backbone worker in the company, on average, while in Japan the ratio is more like 50-75x. I'm also not a fan of oligarchical corporatism run amok, without strict ethical rules/considerations, and where big corporations can buy government off and pull the puppet strings of society. Sorry, veered off course a bit there. :laugh:

I like a lot of German/European styling (like various VW, Audi, etc.), but similarly do not trust their long-term quality. Plus, they are allowing certain destructive, incompatible elements to overrun their countries. I see a global economic collapse in our near future.

Most Korean styling isn't my cup of tea, and I think that I will always view them as cut-rate Japanese automakers. They are about on par with Japanese automakers like Mitsubishi as far as I am concerned. Plus, they have a bizarre/unhealthy culture, with many misplaced priorities - just like America.

I would never, ever buy a Chinese car, period - for reasons too numerous to list here. Same goes for other Chinese products in general.

Luxury-brand cars like Lexus, Acura, etc. are pretty to look at, for the most part, but they are overpriced, and loaded with so much tech bloat that they just turn me off more often than not. I don't need to drive an overpriced, over-equipped car to feel good about myself. Plus, they make you a target for all the crazies and crooks running around today.

I want to like Nissan, Mazda, and Subaru, but they always seem to trail Toyota/Honda in overall quality. Hell, even Honda seems to be a shadow of their former selves, with 15 years or so of chronic/sporadic problems with automatic transmissions, brakes, manufacturing defects, etc.

Sadly enough, I doubt that there are even a half-dozen new cars that I would be willing to buy currently. :cry: Luckily, I am fortunate enough to be driving the exact car that I want right now, and everything else is a distant 2nd-choice for me.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Those older Hondas from the 90s were awesome. You know, the ones you still see on the road. My neighbor drives a 94 Civic with over 300,000mi on it. It's had a few minor issues, but drives well for an in-town car.

The newer Hondas seem to be going the route of Kia/Hyundai. Overly flashy with all kinds of technology crap in them. The new Accords have two LCD screens in them. No idea why they couldn't just combine everything into one.

I really like the styling of the new American cars. I owned a Chevy Sonic before getting the Yaris. It's a much better car than the Yaris in terms of style and coolness, but I questioned the reliability and quality. Some people on the Sonic forum were having to replace transmissions and other serious parts on a car that's less than 2yr old. My key fob stopped working to lock/unlock the car occasionally, and the driver's side door would drag when closed (finally stopped after getting worn in). The dealer could never fix the remote issue.

My next car in 3-4 years will probably be a used 2015 Yaris. I like the 2dr manual models. If I cannot find one, I will probably buy a Honda Fit or maybe even a Kia Rio.

Sometimes buying a car is hard. I generally prefer reliability over coolness, but driving a boring car becomes, well boring after years.

I would buy cars from these manufacturers in this order: Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai

[nookandcrannycar]

Growing up in the 70's and 80's, I just don't trust American-brand automakers. I like some of their newer styling on various cars, such as the Fusion, Focus, Dart and such, but just won't go there. Plus, I'm not enamored by the fact that the typical American CEO is paid 200-700x the pay of the average backbone worker in the company, on average, while in Japan the ratio is more like 50-75x. I'm also not a fan of oligarchical corporatism run amok, without strict ethical rules/considerations, and where big corporations can buy government off and pull the puppet strings of society. Sorry, veered off course a bit there. :laugh:

I agree, except re CEO pay. IMO, that is only the business of the shareholders.

I like a lot of German/European styling (like various VW, Audi, etc.), but similarly do not trust their long-term quality. Plus, they are allowing certain destructive, incompatible elements to overrun their countries. I see a global economic collapse in our near future.

100% agree :thumbsup:

Most Korean styling isn't my cup of tea, and I think that I will always view them as cut-rate Japanese automakers. They are about on par with Japanese automakers like Mitsubishi as far as I am concerned. Plus, they have a bizarre/unhealthy culture, with many misplaced priorities - just like America.

I like the Veloster and the Elantra 4-door sedan. Off the top of my head, can't think of any other Korean cars that I think have distinctive positive styling cues. I agree with you re where Korean cars fit in the quality hierarchy :thumbsup:. Re priorities, IMO, people can replace unhealthy cultural norms with healthy behavior if they are motivated enough and have the personal freedom to do so. IMO, preserving personal freedoms as much as possible should always be in the forefront of the consciousness of those who represent our different levels of government.

I would never, ever buy a Chinese car, period - for reasons too numerous to list here.

100% agree :thumbsup:

Same goes for other Chinese products in general.

Don't agree

Luxury-brand cars like Lexus, Acura, etc. are pretty to look at, for the most part, but they are overpriced, and loaded with so much tech bloat that they just turn me off more often than not. I don't need to drive an overpriced, over-equipped car to feel good about myself. Plus, they make you a target for all the crazies and crooks running around today.

100% agree :thumbsup:

I want to like Nissan, Mazda, and Subaru, but they always seem to trail Toyota/Honda in overall quality. Hell, even Honda seems to be a shadow of their former selves, with 15 years or so of chronic/sporadic problems with automatic transmissions, brakes, manufacturing defects, etc.

Sadly enough, I doubt that there are even a half-dozen new cars that I would be willing to buy currently. :cry: Luckily, I am fortunate enough to be driving the exact car that I want right now, and everything else is a distant 2nd-choice for me.

:thumbsup: Agree more than disagree.

[Kar98]

I miss driving VWs. I've had a 80 Rabbit, 84 GTI, 86 Golf, 87 Scirocco, 97 Golf. Everything was always where you're used to it. Everything functioned the way you've expected it to. All the gauges, switches and everything. Home sweet home. But, damn, I sure don't miss /having/ to dick around with them every week or two.

By that extension, I also wouldn't want to own any of the seemingly water soluble European cars anymore, Koreans are still... Korean. American cars are for those who can't afford Korean or Japanese. For decades we've been hearing "this year we've really made it, we don't suck as much anymore!". Leaves me with the Japanese. Boring, reliable appliances, most of them. I wish there was a MR2 or Celica.

[BLKHILLSGUY]

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Those older Hondas from the 90s were awesome. You know, the ones you still see on the road. My neighbor drives a 94 Civic with over 300,000mi on it. It's had a few minor issues, but drives well for an in-town car.

The newer Hondas seem to be going the route of Kia/Hyundai. Overly flashy with all kinds of technology crap in them. The new Accords have two LCD screens in them. No idea why they couldn't just combine everything into one.

I really like the styling of the new American cars. I owned a Chevy Sonic before getting the Yaris. It's a much better car than the Yaris in terms of style and coolness, but I questioned the reliability and quality. Some people on the Sonic forum were having to replace transmissions and other serious parts on a car that's less than 2yr old. My key fob stopped working to lock/unlock the car occasionally, and the driver's side door would drag when closed (finally stopped after getting worn in). The dealer could never fix the remote issue.

My next car in 3-4 years will probably be a used 2015 Yaris. I like the 2dr manual models. If I cannot find one, I will probably buy a Honda Fit or maybe even a Kia Rio.

Sometimes buying a car is hard. I generally prefer reliability over coolness, but driving a boring car becomes, well boring after years.

I would buy cars from these manufacturers in this order: Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai

You think the Sonic is a better looking and cooler car than the Yaris. Never been inside one, but they aren't that great looking. I think the Yaris is much more aesthetically pleasing. But to each their own. And I'd never again buy a GM. Been there done that. Especially a low end GM. They are the worst. Think Chevette.

[BLKHILLSGUY]

I miss driving VWs. I've had a 80 Rabbit, 84 GTI, 86 Golf, 87 Scirocco, 97 Golf. Everything was always where you're used to it. Everything functioned the way you've expected it to. All the gauges, switches and everything. Home sweet home. But, damn, I sure don't miss /having/ to dick around with them every week or two.

By that extension, I also wouldn't want to own any of the seemingly water soluble European cars anymore, Koreans are still... Korean. American cars are for those who can't afford Korean or Japanese. For decades we've been hearing "this year we've really made it, we don't suck as much anymore!". Leaves me with the Japanese. Boring, reliable appliances, most of them. I wish there was a MR2 or Celica.

Actually Kia and Hyundai will give a subprime loan out to anything with a pulse. I think people who can't afford Japanese or American cars go to Kia/Hyundai for a guaranteed loan.

[CoryM]

I find it interesting how most people are talking politics over the actual quality of the cars. From a mechanic's POV (reliability and cost to repair) the companies to avoid are: Audi, Mini, Fiat, older Cadillac. Every company makes a few junk cars that need to be avoided though. The domestic cars, and Korean cars do not have the same engineering as the Toyota/Honda. However, the cost to buy and repair is low enough that they pretty much wash out. Domestic cars also use better steel, which makes it nicer to work on. That's Toyota's biggest failure currently IMO. I would gladly pay another $1000 for a Toyota if they used better steel.

[Pokey]

I have a golden rule
''4 doors, 5 speeds,Japanese''
Every time I break that rule I regret it
( do hear that Dodge dealer who keeps calling me? We went from being a Mopar family to a no Chrysler product EVER family)

[bairjo]

After watching this guy...Mercedes sound like one to avoid. This guy is great!..no nonsense old school.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPJ64sTa7KI

[nookandcrannycar]

Actually Kia and Hyundai will give a subprime loan out to anything with a pulse.

:bellyroll:

I think people who can't afford Japanese or American cars go to Kia/Hyundai for a guaranteed loan.

I wonder if many such customers also take worse care of those cars.

[nookandcrannycar]

I find it interesting how most people are talking politics over the actual quality of the cars. From a mechanic's POV (reliability and cost to repair) the companies to avoid are: Audi, Mini, Fiat, older Cadillac. Every company makes a few junk cars that need to be avoided though. The domestic cars, and Korean cars do not have the same engineering as the Toyota/Honda. However, the cost to buy and repair is low enough that they pretty much wash out. Domestic cars also use better steel, which makes it nicer to work on. That's Toyota's biggest failure currently IMO. I would gladly pay another $1000 for a Toyota if they used better steel.

Very interesting. Does this only apply to Toyotas assembled outside the U.S., or does this also apply to Toyotas assembled in the U.S. ?

[nookandcrannycar]

After watching this guy...Mercedes sound like one to avoid. This guy is great!..no nonsense old school.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPJ64sTa7KI

:thumbsup: Definitely. I watched some of his other videos as well :thumbsup:......and he's right here in the Houston metro :thumbsup:.

One of my neighbors way down the street (with the smallest floor plan in my subdivision) had a Benz just like the one in the video and also a 6 series 2-door BMW. They got rid of the Benz and bought a 5-door Yaris....No joke!

[CoryM]

Very interesting. Does this only apply to Toyotas assembled outside the U.S., or does this also apply to Toyotas assembled in the U.S. ?

All Toyotas, and all Japanese cars. Some are better than others though. After WW2 the Japanese steel industry was a mess. It wasn't until the 60s(?) that they turned it around. They also need to import the materials (usually from scrap). This makes high quality steel far more expensive there. I would assume even when built elsewhere they are either using Japanese steel, or having foreign steel made to the same specs. The quality has steadily improved over the years, but is still not as rust resistant as domestic product. Do a GIS for "rusty toyota" VS "rusty ford" and you will see what I mean :laugh:

Cheers.

[CoryM]

I didn't include Mercedes in my list because they are building cars for their market. Namely, people who buy/lease new cars every 3-5yrs. Although I don't like they way they (and almost all German) cars drive, they do well for their market. If you aren't in that market, don't buy a Mercedes in North America.

[attrapereves]

Actually Kia and Hyundai will give a subprime loan out to anything with a pulse. I think people who can't afford Japanese or American cars go to Kia/Hyundai for a guaranteed loan.

I'm not sure where rumors like this crop up. Most car dealers, regardless of manufacturer, use several different lenders.

My GM loan was through a local bank, my Mazda loan is through Chase. And my Toyota loan is through Commerce Bank. It all depends on interest rates. But I have good credit.

Even if you have pretty bad credit, any car dealer will try to work with you.

[nookandcrannycar]

All Toyotas, and all Japanese cars. Some are better than others though. After WW2 the Japanese steel industry was a mess. It wasn't until the 60s(?) that they turned it around. They also need to import the materials (usually from scrap). This makes high quality steel far more expensive there. I would assume even when built elsewhere they are either using Japanese steel, or having foreign steel made to the same specs. The quality has steadily improved over the years, but is still not as rust resistant as domestic product. Do a GIS for "rusty toyota" VS "rusty ford" and you will see what I mean :laugh:

Cheers.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[BLKHILLSGUY]

I'm not sure where rumors like this crop up. Most car dealers, regardless of manufacturer, use several different lenders.

My GM loan was through a local bank, my Mazda loan is through Chase. And my Toyota loan is through Commerce Bank. It all depends on interest rates. But I have good credit.

Even if you have pretty bad credit, any car dealer will try to work with you.

Our local Kia dealer works with a company that makes cold sales calls. A family member had just filed bankruptcy and the Kia dealer was promising guaranteed financing. Their own sign at the large Kia dealer says if you filed bankruptcy, no big deal, we'll get you J to a new Kia. And of course any trailer park I drive through is full of old cars and new Kia's and Hyundai's. Hence, that is where I get my info. I've never heard of Toyota cold calling people with piss poor credit begging them to get into a new car. But Kia does that.

[BLKHILLSGUY]

:bellyroll:



I wonder if many such customers also take worse care of those cars.

That would be my guess. Beer and diapers for the 3rd child to a one income family are going to come before any necessary car maintenance. Just drive it till it falls apart. It's got a 10 yr 100,000 warranty, so no worries. I will say this though, the Kia and Hyundai service departments do rank considerably higher with customer service than the Toyota service departments. That is directly from Consumer Reports. And my better half loves the Kia service department. They do a damn good job. I can't say I'm thrilled with my lone Toyota dealer's service department. Average at best.

[BLKHILLSGUY]

And if the quality was so damn good in a Kia or a Hyundai, the resale would reflect that. And the resale continues to be horrid. Why is that?