Tuning Options

[tmontague]

I'm looking to try and get the most out of the mods on my Yaris (keep in mind it's my DD) and I've been trying to find out info on tuning it. Now I know the obvious, that Toyota ECU's are virtualy untunable.

This leads me to go to something like a piggyback ECU. I have no experience with these things but I'm interested as it seems to make more sense to spend some money on something like this than over priced bolt on options that make minimal increases due to a lack of specific tuning. I've gotten to a point where I'm happy with my engine mods but if a piggy back is possible then it would make sense to do that.

I've read reviews stating that they're useless and a scam or a waste of money. However, all the boosted guys seem to be running them to tune their turbo's with and they seem to work ok.

My question is: with my NA engine, is there a piggyback ECU I could run and get tuned so that I can maximize my mods? If so, will this make me fail my e-test (they only hook up to the OBD port and check for CEL's. If none are present and the ECU has ran through everything than I pass. Will the piggyback ECU lead to engine reliability issues where I have to constantly be re mapping it (not an option for me as I need the car to drive every weekday).

I know a lot of you boosted guys on here know a lot about this stuff so I figured you all can enlighten me :thumbup:

[CTScott]

A piggyback ECU will provide negligible gains at best on a NA car. For FI Yaris it is necessary, as the ECM is not designed to properly adjust the fuel and ignition under boost.

[ilikerice]

I have a CamCom piggy back currently installed but I have it turned off because the only tuner I can find is 4 hours away and will cost me $500 to dyno tune it. Dyno tuned is recommended because you will need to know if you are gaining or losing power when adjustments to the cams are made between pulls.

CamCom not only adjust fuel trim but also advanced/retards cams. Jason Isley used to run this in his H Prod yaris before he switched to AEM EMS standalone setup. Said he was very impressed with how much power the N/A could get.

food for thought

[CTScott]

I have a CamCom piggy back currently installed but I have it turned off because the only tuner I can find is 4 hours away and will cost me $500 to dyno tune it. Dyno tuned is recommended because you will need to know if you are gaining or losing power when adjustments to the cams are made between pulls.

CamCom not only adjust fuel trim but also advanced/retards cams. Jason Isley used to run this in his H Prod yaris before he switched to AEM EMS standalone setup. Said he was very impressed with how much power the N/A could get.

food for thought

Wasn't Jason running with a modified cam?

[ilikerice]

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24534&page=11

Post 182 he mentions tuning with CamCom. I had to read all the pages before this to see if he installed cams or regrind, no mention, just suspension, tires and working out issues with the wiring.

I stopped after that because I need to go to work now. I will read more later on to see when he did the cams...

[ilikerice]

ADD:

on post #223, Jason did 11 ft-lbs of torque and 13 whp increase when turned on. Still haven't come across when he did anything to the cams. So far that is just simple bolt-ons and stock motor

[Rigaud]

Your right about no cams required. I remember specifically reading a post from Jason saying theirs a lt more power to be tapped out of the 1NZ without cams. I know the guy's who swapped Prius pistons use piggy backs to tune the AFR which is a must. A good AFR piggy will cost you about $500.

[jmanous]

You don't need at least a wideband AFR sensor too?

[tmontague]

Just to clariy, i'm looking for a decent piggyback unit to then get tuned on a dyno like you all had mentioned. I expect it to cost a little bit.

I have a couple Q's:

1. With a piggy back unit installed in is plug and play and then just a matter of getting a tune?

2. Will I be able to just unplug the PB and go back to stock with no issues?

3. Would I need to disconnect it to get my etest done in Ontario to pass? It is only an OBD plug in to check for engine codes type test.

Like I said, i'm at the point where I am happy with all my mods and don't want to spend the high amount of money it costs to do any further mods. Since i'm at this point, it makes sense to finish it off with a tune to maximize what i've done to the engine. If this can be don't fairly straightforward then i'd like to look into it in the near future.

Keep in mind I plan on staying NA. I feel that another 10+ whp is worth it and would be great to have on the Yaris for the rest of its life. I'd just like to be able to put it back to stock if ever needed by simply unplugging th PB unit.

I'll read the link posted above

[ilikerice]

jmanous You don't need at least a wideband AFR sensor too? Yes

Just to clariy, i'm looking for a decent piggyback unit to then get tuned on a dyno like you all had mentioned. I expect it to cost a little bit.

I have a couple Q's:

1. With a piggy back unit installed in is plug and play and then just a matter of getting a tune? The only PnP I know of is the AEM,(correct me if I am wrong) which uses a boomslang harness that is about $500 alone. I have heard that you will need to do some of the pins because users have had issues with loose wires. Everything else I have seen is hard wired in, although you could make your own plug n play,with a couple of connectors in line of the harness.

2. Will I be able to just unplug the PB and go back to stock with no issues?
In theory, yes.

3. Would I need to disconnect it to get my etest done in Ontario to pass? It is only an OBD plug in to check for engine codes type test. no clue, someone else will have to chime in on that.

Like I said, i'm at the point where I am happy with all my mods and don't want to spend the high amount of money it costs to do any further mods. Since i'm at this point, it makes sense to finish it off with a tune to maximize what i've done to the engine. If this can be don't fairly straightforward then i'd like to look into it in the near future.

Keep in mind I plan on staying NA. I feel that another 10+ whp is worth it and would be great to have on the Yaris for the rest of its life. I'd just like to be able to put it back to stock if ever needed by simply unplugging th PB unit.

I'll read the link posted above

[xnamerxx]

A piggyback ECU will provide negligible gains at best on a NA car. For FI Yaris it is necessary, as the ECM is not designed to properly adjust the fuel and ignition under boost.

I picked up something like 8hp/8tq on a fairly stock engine using an aftermarket ECU and 91oct. Cam timing on this motor is pretty conservative, the same goes for ignition timing, and fueling.

[tmontague]

Ilikerice: Ouch, that's tough news, I was hoping something was plug and play into the OE ECU and then just getting a tune.

If I have to hardwire it all up then i'll just leave my Yaris Yaris is. I can't be playing around with the ECU wires on my DD Yaris, too risky if it goes wrong.

I'll look into AEM's PB unit, although if it's more than $500 I don't think it's worth it plus the tune. I'm assuming this is why so few Yaris owners on this forum who are NA have run a tuned PB unit

Xnamerxx: what unit did you go with, and how was connecting it to the OE ECU? P and P or did you have to hardwire it?

[tmontague]

hmm, been doing a ton more reading on the camcon. It's had some good results in the other Toyota Forums it seems. Other than splicing a few wires is seems straightforward.

Is it true that I would have to run a different O2 sensor (wideband) or is it enough to have the camcon installed and then tune it to improve the timing and afr to run on 91 octane?

It doesn't seem that this would have a negative effect on an etest either as the obd port is still accessible and as long as there are no issues with the car there should be no cel's triggered.

Anyone on here who has one installed care to explain what they had to purchase to make it run properly (different O2 sensore etc) and how the installation was as well as how it runs long term?

[fnkngrv]

Any piggyback will require feedback from its own o2 sensor and it needs to be a wideband. To be realistic you will be spending between $750-2000 when it is said and done between piggyback, harness, sensor, Dyno pulls, etc. Also because the stock ECM does a hell of a job correcting itself you will probably have issues every so often with it putting you back to 14.7 afr. I am pretty sure that Jason didn't see his gains until he installed his JUN NA Cam set which runs $1000 for the pair from JUN directly. My two cents is that you are chasing futility. The only reason why anyone has done a piggyback with this car NA is because they race with it in some form. That is the only justification for the investment. If you are going to spend upwards of $1000+ then you might as well research that 2zr swap as it is relatively straight forward, will be OEM reliable, and net around 130hp rather than the 106hp at the crank. Scott got to ride in the swapped rig AFAIK while on a trip and came away pretty impressed.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[CTScott]

9-13 HP gain for the cost of a piggyback + wideband + tuning is what I am considering to be negligible gains.

[invader166]

Sounds like everyone's on the same page on this. A lot of cash for little gain.

One other option I recal posting about some time ago (that you may or may not consider given that it raises some flags) was regarding an ECU flash tune that's available from Agency Power.

http://www.agency-power.com/catalog/agency-power-obdii-port-tune-auto-flash-toyota-yaris-p-150794659.html

No one on here has any info on it, what it does or if it even works. I would have wanted to get one and send it off to CTScott and have him probe it to see if it does anything, given that this is a semi-legitimate tuning company.
It's all in the interest of R&D, but I currently don't have the funds necessary to do so.
And there doesn't seem to be enough interest in it to have more people help out either.

IDK, this might all be just a waste of time and money so, everyone, feel free to ignore me and/or tell me how much of an idiot/moron I am.

[ilikerice]

Any piggyback will require feedback from its own o2 sensor and it needs to be a wideband. To be realistic you will be spending between $750-2000 when it is said and done between piggyback, harness, sensor, Dyno pulls, etc. Also because the stock ECM does a hell of a job correcting itself you will probably have issues every so often with it putting you back to 14.7 afr. I am pretty sure that Jason didn't see his gains until he installed his JUN NA Cam set which runs $1000 for the pair from JUN directly. My two cents is that you are chasing futility. The only reason why anyone has done a piggyback with this car NA is because they race with it in some form. That is the only justification for the investment. If you are going to spend upwards of $1000+ then you might as well research that 2zr swap as it is relatively straight forward, will be OEM reliable, and net around 130hp rather than the 106hp at the crank. Scott got to ride in the swapped rig AFAIK while on a trip and came away pretty impressed.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

He has a good point for cost. I know you have already spent a good amount of money all additional mods specifically to the 1nz (intake, TB, port matching TB to Intake, exhaust). But if you wanted to spend $1000 for 10-15hp, the 2zr swap will cost around $2000 for direct bolt in to have a base of ~130hp reliable and stock. You probably could sell your 1nz motor for $500 and part out the other stuff...
TB sells for about $80-$100, Throw in your matched manifold for another $100
Header sells about $150-$200
SRI intake can sell for about the same..

SO you are looking at getting about half your money back if you sell your old setup after you get the 2zr...

Just a thought to consider also when weighing price/hp

[tmontague]

I appreciate all the info given on this thread from people with various experience with this topic. It seems that Toyota's ECU wins out (hence why there are so few tuned Yota's) and I'll have to stick with what I have.

The price it will cost is just not worth it to me as a grad student with a baby in the near future. I stated before that I will eventually be purchasing a used WRX as my track, autox and hobby car so there omre I put into the Yaris the longer it will take to get the WRX. I'd rather put it into a car that has a much higher potential to mod and is highly tuner friendly. I'd like to become more familiar with the tuning side of cars as that is an area I'm still trying to learn as much as possible.

The other main reason for not going the poggyback route it due to what fnkngrv said about the stock ECU being great at trying to ruin a nice tune. Any mod I do to my Yaris has to be working once done and stay working with minimal issues. I don't have the luxury to keep having to garage my car until I can get it on a dyno since it's my dependable DD.

I'm still very happy with the performance that has been squeezed out of the mods I've so far done. Once I get my lightweight CC flywheel and new clutch installed this summer I should be content with where the Yaris is at for the rest of its driven life.

The engine swap that Armstrong racing did is a great idea that is relatively cost effective (in relation to HP gained) and will keep the Yota reliability. That being said I'd still rather have a modded 1nz that I can drive hard and push to its limits, than a stock 2zr. I say "stock" 2zr simply because I wouldn't have to funds to mod another enigne for minimal HP gain if any so i'd be keeping it stock. It also still costs a good amount of money that I don't have right now.

I guess driving a car around that I've modded all on my own and that has taught me how cars work means a lot more to me than just a larger engine. I don't have a background of driving boosted/fast cars and I'm new to autox so for now the Yaris is more than enough car for me.

[tmontague]

As a side thought I will post this question:

Will resetting the Yaris' ECU and running 91 octane for a while cause an increase in performance? Now I know that 91 octane does not give more power over 87 on the same tune, but I am asking because the 1nz ECU is constantly learning.

The 1nz if already a relatively hgh compression engine (10.5:1) and is therefore tuned to reduce knock on 87 pump gas. If you reset and run 91 or even 94 will the knock sensor etc. allow for more advanced timing since there is no detection of knock?

It's essentially the reverse that is seen when you run 87octane in a, lets say Nissan z370. The engine retards timing to avoid knock and the performance is therefore decreased. Or is the Yaris ECU only tuned for 87 and will never let the engine go further with timing to utilize 91 or 94 octane for performance?

[WeeYari]

Will resetting the Yaris' ECU and running 91 octane for a while cause an increase in performance? Now I know that 91 octane does not give more power over 87 on the same tune, but I am asking because the 1nz ECU is constantly learning.

No.

[Rigaud]

As a side thought I will post this question:

ll rWiesetting the Yaris' ECU and running 91 octane for a while cause an increase in performance? Now I know that 91 octane does not give more power over 87 on the same tune, but I am asking because the 1nz ECU is constantly learning.

The 1nz if already a relatively hgh compression engine (10.5:1) and is therefore tuned to reduce knock on 87 pump gas. If you reset and run 91 or even 94 will the knock sensor etc. allow for more advanced timing since there is no detection of knock?

It's essentially the reverse that is seen when you run 87octane in a, lets say Nissan z370. The engine retards timing to avoid knock and the performance is therefore decreased. Or is the Yaris ECU only tuned for 87 and will never let the engine go further with timing to utilize 91 or 94 octane for performance?

No!!!! Theirs no inexpensive way to get gains. You gotta pay to play!

[Jason@SportsCar]

Any piggyback will require feedback from its own o2 sensor and it needs to be a wideband. To be realistic you will be spending between $750-2000 when it is said and done between piggyback, harness, sensor, Dyno pulls, etc. Also because the stock ECM does a hell of a job correcting itself you will probably have issues every so often with it putting you back to 14.7 afr. I am pretty sure that Jason didn't see his gains until he installed his JUN NA Cam set which runs $1000 for the pair from JUN directly. My two cents is that you are chasing futility. The only reason why anyone has done a piggyback with this car NA is because they race with it in some form. That is the only justification for the investment. If you are going to spend upwards of $1000+ then you might as well research that 2zr swap as it is relatively straight forward, will be OEM reliable, and net around 130hp rather than the 106hp at the crank. Scott got to ride in the swapped rig AFAIK while on a trip and came away pretty impressed.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

That is incorrect, we saw gains in Tq and HP on the stock motor with our ECU - actually the ECU was worth more than the cams. The OE tune is very conservative on fuel, ignition, and RPM. To replicate my setup would be about $3000 with the tune.

[tmontague]

No!!!! Theirs no inexpensive way to get gains. You gotta pay to play!

...it sounded like such a good theory in my head:cry:

Thanks Jason, but $3000 is way out of my budget. If I was building a race car like you guys did then it makes sense. As a DD definitely not.

I still smile every time I redline my Yaris...

[fnkngrv]

That is incorrect, we saw gains in Tq and HP on the stock motor with our ECU - actually the ECU was worth more than the cams. The OE tune is very conservative on fuel, ignition, and RPM. To replicate my setup would be about $3000 with the tune.
Ah ok. I stand corrected. :-). Good to know!

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[SirDigby]

Will resetting the Yaris' ECU and running 91 octane for a while cause an increase in performance? Now I know that 91 octane does not give more power over 87 on the same tune, but I am asking because the 1nz ECU is constantly learning.

The 1nz if already a relatively hgh compression engine (10.5:1) and is therefore tuned to reduce knock on 87 pump gas. If you reset and run 91 or even 94 will the knock sensor etc. allow for more advanced timing since there is no detection of knock?



the manual states the optimum fuel to use should have a RON ratting of 91
that being said, if you run on 87 the engine is retarding; even though we use the RONxMON/2 method. but it's still a guess where in the mix you end up. it is acceptable to run on this, but you should buy the highest quality possible. with fuel at or below $2 a gallon for 91, why not.
where I live we also have 85. I KNOW my car came with a full tank of it when I bought it. it took about 3 tanks of 91 to get it running properly. I always run 91. (ethanol-free if I can find it)
people might say it's a waste of money; but if you are going to use synthetic oil, synthetic trans fluid, good tires, and you don't cheap out on the products you use on your car, why would you buy cheap fuel???
duh.

[NYC-SE]

I always run 91. (ethanol-free if I can find it)
people might say it's a waste of money

People are right. And we're off topic.

[tmontague]

Thanks Digby, I'm going to look into my manual and see what it recommends as I don't remember it stating 91. I understand your parallels between synthetic oil and higher octane fuel. However I personally don't draw the same conclusion as syn oil has better extreme cold start performance, and higher octane fuel isn't necessarily cleaner (unless you believe industry rhetoric) but if an engine isn't tuned for 91 then it just raises the detonation point to a useless level that you cannot take advantage of.

People are right. And we're off topic.

Digby simply answered a Q I posed on my own thread since the tune Q was essentially beat down and concluded.

Although his answer differs from the ones above him, he is the only one who -although subjective - explained his rationale. I posed the Q about octane gas with a theoretical reason as to why it may possibly have an effect specifically in the Yaris. Although the answers are appreciated, simply stating yes or no doesn't truly answer or explain each persons specific reasoning, it simply throws out their opinion (whether correct or not).

With that being said, can anyone poke holes in my theory I posed with the Q or explain as to why 91RON would not allow for the Yaris to advance timing and improve performance? (I still have to check the user manual recommendation) My only guess for 91RON having no effect would be if the Yaris ECU is not tuned to advance timing past that of 87RON, then it would become a complete waste of money.

[Fluxtasy]

I've been contemplating getting the Camcon piggyback but the only thing that is holding me back is that you have to splice/cut the ECU harness and there isn't a plug & play harness available. I do believe that any piggyback that can adjust cam timing & air/fuel ratios would give our 1NZ the best gains.

I drive a Vios or to you guys a Yaris Sedan. I understand that the Vios is a cost down version of the Belta and Toyota has made the Vios with as much fuel economy as possible. I came across this Thai parts seller and had a chat with him. Basically I found out that if I switched 4 parts out and I would get better response/some gains: RS MAF Sensor, RS header, RS coilpacks & RS VVTI solenoid.

Since I already have something similar to the TRD header so initially I purchased the RS MAF sensor & RS VVTI solenoid. I'm not a mechanic so I will try my best to explain the difference I felt. The Vios MAF sensor may have a delayed reading compared to the RS MAF sensor also possibly the Vios MAF sensor might have a reading cap (bear in mind you are suppose to be using the standard restrictive air filter & the car was made to be fuel economical). Next the RS VVTI solenoid was very noticeable as I believed this advanced the cam timings and allowed the burnt gas through the header at a better rate.

So after that I went ahead to purchase the RS coilpacks. I did not notice much gains for these but idling is much smoother with the AC & headlamps turned on. Hence with this experience I do believe that the Camcon would be a very good option for us. I also did chat up with barneyncp93/Hasta and he practically vouch that the Camcon is the best option.

Fuel options here are Ron 95 & 97. Ron 95 here is Euro 2 standards and I use this daily as it cheaper compared to Ron 97 Euro 4 standards.

[tmontague]

I personally don't have an issue splicing into the ECU. I have an issue with the OE ECU constantly trying to take the aftermarket tune I'd have to pay for back to stock settings. This causes a constant adjustments need to be made and even constantly paying for Dyno's to keep a good aftermarket tune. This is something that I don't want to have to deal with for my DD

[Fluxtasy]

The Camcon has fuel settings and I understand that these settings would over ride the ECU settings unless the Camcon unit is turned off. You can check the Camcon diagram. Some wires need to be spliced while a few needs to be cut and connected to the Camcon harness.

Only if you add in or switch some new parts then you'd probably need to get it Dyno tuned again for best gains.

[tmontague]

The Camcon has fuel settings and I understand that these settings would over ride the ECU settings unless the Camcon unit is turned off. You can check the Camcon diagram. Some wires need to be spliced while a few needs to be cut and connected to the Camcon harness.

Only if you add in or switch some new parts then you'd probably need to get it Dyno tuned again for best gains.

Yes, but apparently the OE ECU can somehow override the piggyback since you are still needing to go through the ECU with the piggy back. You'd also need to install an afr sensor for the piggyback.

It sounds like it'd work great and I'd love to hear about someone giving it a go, but based on pats experiences I think that is the reason why so few run them...unless they're boosted then they have to.

If it worked flawlessly then I'd be in for sure. I think the best way to go is with a full stand alone ECU and get rid of the OE ECU. The only problem with this is the money it costs.

[Fluxtasy]

I have not heard about that issue over here. But I do remember now that CTScott did mention somewhere that you have different types of ECUs over there. And the odd thing is Power Enterprise have a sales & marketing office in the US. You can always check with them if it will revert to OE settings.

[tmontague]

Just finished some more reading on various Toyota forums and even found an old YW thread from 2010 with a few people installing a Camcon in North America and they were fairly happy with it. They all had bolt on mods and NA engines.

This is still something I'm pndering and will likely do. That being said I'll only do it if I can get a Camcon at a good price, and I would purchase an AFR before installing it. This way I could road tune it half decently using the AFR's and then eventually take it to a pro tuner and have them do it.

According to a few other threads, the OE ECU will not "relearn" anything except the afr's under moderate load. The cam position stays over ridden at any throttle position and the AFR's will be fully controlled by the Camcon under WOT since the OE ECU stays under open loop.

If the camcon can be found at a decent price and is paired up with an AFR I think it's realistic to be able to pull an extra 10hp/tq with all the bolt ons I have and it shouldn't cost too much ~$500USD

[ilikerice]

Another thing I would like to point out that. The thing was, if you had a piggyback system installed, one thing people will do is disconnect the battery once a week. Or a "kill switch" would be easier. Now, with the camcon, after you turn on the car, the camcon is already off. When its off, it loops the OE ECU readings as if the CamCon isn't there. When you turn it on, that is when all the adjustments are made in the tune of the camcon.

So, in theory, the computer never has a chance to adjust itself back from a new tune. Again, this is theory. I am no electrical expert, but the camcon has an "on, off" button if you want better gas milage when your not racing

[SirDigby]

all the piggy-back issues sounds like a pain. why not just buy a complete stand-alone? then you can control all aspects of engine operation. i haven't looked into it for Toyota (cause i'm not nearly there) but i had a lot of simmer issues with Honda and it always seemed that when i tried to by-pass/change things with the piggy-backs i was wasting my time and the projects ended up with a hondata every time.
how much is a stand-alone?

[ilikerice]

http://www.dezod.com/dezod-motorsports/dezod-motorsports-custom-aem-ems-stand-alone-engine-management-systems/dzm05007/i-2119505.aspx

May be able to find a used one around $1,000. This one comes with a boomslang harness. The AEM EMS alone runs aboout $1500 new.

With a complete standalone, being most toyota's run a CAN-BUS system that also works the immobilizer, A/C, Electrical Power Steering, ABS and other functions, Your instrument panel will light up light like a Christmas tree. To keep all that, you would have to wire in only the components you want controlled by the EMS and also keep your OEM ECU. Which requires more splicing still.

Pick your poison kinda thing..

[tmontague]

It's my understanding that you cannot really do a complete standalone and get rid of the ECU on a Yota DD. As a race built car for the track, sure but as a DD the OE ECU still needs to read certain values for the engine to turn over etc.

I also can't have a stand alone ECU if I want to keep my Yaris on the street and pass an etest every 2 years. I need an OBD II port to check for CEL's to pass.

[tmontague]

For those of you who have installed an aftermarket AFR:

I was under the impression that the primary O2 sensor (the one installed on the header) is a wideband (AFR) sensor? If this is the case, is it not possible to just use that one to run an AFR gauge? Or does an AFR gauge need it's own sensor as the factory sensor cannot be spliced into?

[ilikerice]

CTScott can guide you on that part, but there is a reason why you can't. If I recall correctly, the values the Toyota A/F sensor doesn't have a wide enough range. Also, the signal output are different so your gauge will not be accurate.

[ArmstrongRacing]

I just picked up a Camcon EX....currently discussing it with tuners

[tmontague]

following...

Since I'm staying NA I'm curious to get as many people's real world experiences/opinions on the camcon in terms of how effective it is if long term. Also curious as to what the tuner says about it

If it does work well long term then I think it is something that a lot of Yaris owners could benefit from who have bolt on's.

It seems to me that most Yaris owners who care about performance enough to install and tune a camcon or other piggyback just go into boosting the car (probably for good reason). I however don't want to drop the cash or reduce the reliability of my Yaris by going boosted but if I can advance timing and improve the AFR's especially under WOT then I could get a decent increase in performance and maximize my current mods.

[ilikerice]

Main reason for this is trying to squeeze every ounce of torque out of this engine as we possibly can to compete in Autocross within the rules of STF. Armstrong is also in this boat, but he now has sponsors, so he is leading the way right now.

I have had mine installed for 6 months now but it isn't tuned yet. It has been turned off. It was used when I bought it so I don't know what tune is saved on it and a bit too scared to turn it on and see the difference.

[tmontague]

I thought camcon has ots maps for the yaris loaded in it that should be a safe conservative tune until you get it tuned. Or if you have an afr just use that to give yourself an idea of how far you can take your tune

[ilikerice]

When the Camcom is on. It bypass' the ECU. When it is off, it closes the loop with the ECU to run the ECU parameters.

You can do it that way but it isn't safe. First you adjust the cams, then you adjust A/F to compensate for the added air flow. It isn't like tuning for boost where you set your PSI and then adjust A/F to run safe. Well, it is actually, but you don't know how much to advance or retard a cam with out knowing if your adding power or losing it.

You can do some damage if you go too far with the cams and also you may just lose power if you advance or retard too much and you wouldn't know it without being on an actual dyno.

[tmontague]

Yes, self afr tuning is definitely not even close to a proper dyno tune as you can only really ensure your afr's are safe and use the butt dyno to gauge performance. I wouldn't be pushing the tune too far without a dyno for the reasons you stated.

Have you tried the base maps on the camcon? much better than stock?

[ilikerice]

No, not yet. I haven't found anyone willing to share. I had asked on here earlier this year but no feedback. It would definitely cut tuning time by a lot by having something that is close to optimal. So tuner only has to adjust up or down instead of searching for the sweet spot from the beginning.

[xnamerxx]

Advance the cam from 3-5 and retard the cam above 5.

You can pretty much max the advance on this engine since there is a ton of PTV clearance.

[tmontague]

Advance the cam from 3-5 and retard the cam above 5.

You can pretty much max the advance on this engine since there is a ton of PTV clearance.

are you talking about 3-5k rpm? or how much to advance and retard the cams?

[xnamerxx]

are you talking about 3-5k rpm? or how much to advance and retard the cams?

Thats not a question I can answer. Due to factory tolerances, some cams may come off the line being advanced 5 degrees, some come off retarded 5 degrees, and some come off perfect. Since the camcom works in percentages, its not a easy thing to guess at, if your engine was like mine where the cam was retarded 5 degrees maxing the advance worked, if its like my old engine it would likely cost power.

I was at max advance between 3-4.5 and tapered down to 5.5 with everything above that retarded slightly. This is something that really needs to be done on a dyno.

[ilikerice]

Advance the cam from 3-5 and retard the cam above 5.

You can pretty much max the advance on this engine since there is a ton of PTV clearance.

Then why are you suggesting for me to just advance the cam? Again, this can only be done on a dyno which I can not get to one that will allow me to tune it and the closest one that a tuner will do it is 6 hours away.

This is a Dyno only piggyback system.

[xnamerxx]

You asked for a starting point. I can't give you exact percentages, since it needs to be done on a dyno like you already know.

[tmontague]

On the specs you gave, are you referring to rpm's? I have no idea of what your numbers are referencing, that's what I was asking about.

[ilikerice]

The Camcon controls the VVT-i timing +/- 20 degree in 15 different points of 500rpm increments within 2000rpm to 9000rpm Range.

A/F is controlled -10% to +20% in 17 different points of 500 rpm increments within the range of 1000rpm to 9000rpm. Easy Installation

Here is the instruction and more detail page that can help better understand it and how to install it

http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/USA/products/electric/camcon/camcon.htm

[tmontague]

Thanks Rice. I had seen that before on one of the other Yota forums. I am just not sure if namerx is referring to percentages or rpm? As in "above 5" is he talking about retarding timing above s,000rpm?

[rabbito]

look at my E85 motor build II thread..full exhaust system...i give good solid 10hp..stage 1 ecu gain about 20-30hp..i went the cheap way ;)

need forged pistons and rods for more hp gain by tuning..
they have JUN Cams bolt on without stock ecu, give you solid 20-30 hp...pricey...also have JUN Cams that must be tuned..

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[tmontague]

Does a piggyback ecu also tune for closed loop? My understanding is that the piggyback will only tune for open loop (wot acceleration). So how would one "tune" for aftermarket cams?

Does the stock ecu not re learn and over ride the piggyback under closed loop conditions?

[rabbito]

Does a piggyback ecu also tune for closed loop? My understanding is that the piggyback will only tune for open loop (wot acceleration). So how would one "tune" for aftermarket cams?

Does the stock ecu not re learn and over ride the piggyback under closed loop conditions?
your asking me some hardcore question..there is different types, its up to you to decide how you want it done...
advance timing flex fuel or race fuel tuning which what i did..you can use larger injectors and over spray them and tune them..stage 1: external parts..full exhaust, intake, pulleys, spark plugs etc..
you can get internal parts and tune them...stage 2: cams, pistons, rods...you can get the most expensive ecu and program the whole thing and go turbo...

just dont buy one of those acceleration boot leg ecu where you plug into OBD2 and thinking your going fast...

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[tmontague]

Definitely not going to route of an ebay "chip" i'm wondering more from the perspective of a camcon piggyback ecu.

I'm just curious as to how you are all "tuning" the Yaris stock ecu since tey are at this point impossible to re map. I understand how you could do that with a standalone, but other than that I don't understand how it is done.

A piggyback ecu is very limited in what it can do so I didn't think you could tune for cams and other serious stuff with a piggyback

[invader166]

I might be wrong, but I don't think the Yaris was ever really designed with Ethanol in mind.
If it was, Toyota would have probably used the higher-compression Prius pistons in the Yaris engines, leaving the option of an E85 upgrade, later down the road.

[rabbito]

I might be wrong, but I don't think the Yaris was ever really designed with Ethanol in mind.
If it was, Toyota would have probably used the higher-compression Prius pistons in the Yaris engines, leaving the option of an E85 upgrade, later down the road.
check out my thread "E85 Motor Build II" at Performance section, just posted up few days ago...you can leave me questions there..

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[rabbito]

Definitely not going to route of an ebay "chip" i'm wondering more from the perspective of a camcon piggyback ecu.

I'm just curious as to how you are all "tuning" the Yaris stock ecu since tey are at this point impossible to re map. I understand how you could do that with a standalone, but other than that I don't understand how it is done.

A piggyback ecu is very limited in what it can do so I didn't think you could tune for cams and other serious stuff with a piggyback
piggy back is limited? yes..depends on how much money you can spend...like i said, i went the cheapest way possible by advance timing with higher octane fuel and bigger injectors..
you can check out the post "E85 Motor Build II" on Performance modification section..

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[rabbito]

Definitely not going to route of an ebay "chip" i'm wondering more from the perspective of a camcon piggyback ecu.

I'm just curious as to how you are all "tuning" the Yaris stock ecu since tey are at this point impossible to re map. I understand how you could do that with a standalone, but other than that I don't understand how it is done.

A piggyback ecu is very limited in what it can do so I didn't think you could tune for cams and other serious stuff with a piggyback
piggybacks are limited...im doing cheap modification trying to gain most hp with limited amount of money...[emoji14]

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[Joshuafarwel]

You can add ignition timing by using a larger maf housing to lower calculated load, and install larger injectors to compensate for the lesser fuel being injected. If you let the ecu correct fueling itself it adds load back not just fuel trim.
If you lower the maf readings by 30% you'll end up with like 4° more timing advance which will add power if you have the octane for it.