Iridium Sparkplugs Experiment

[bronsin]

In a moment of weakness I bought a set of OEM GK iridium plugs for my wifes Camry. Its got 126k on it and has the original plugs. $40! :eek:

This was stupid because I had resolved, based on my experience of 40+ years fixing cars to never change them. I don't believe its necessary to change even regular plugs for the life of the car unless its burning oil or they become manifestly defective. This is because of unleaded gas and high energy 50,000 volt today vs 12,000 volt in the past ignition systems.

However its also my opinion based on the above that one still needs to r and r the plugs every 30k or so miles so they don't become seized. This I have not done Im sorry to say. :iono:

However I have resolved to have the old ones out. If they ARE stuck this will be impossible. We will see. I will examine the plugs and of theyre OK I will regap and clean them and reinstall them. I can get my money back. If not I'll put the new ones in.

It may take a while because Im old. Maybe one a week?:eek:

Stay tuned!:bow:

[bronsin]

HA that was quick! Cant get em out theyre stuck! I turned one of them about a 1/4 turn to scary creaking and squeeking noises with a great deal of effort on the cheater pipe. So I tightened it back up. Don't want to strip the threads!

So the results of the experiment are: r and r your plugs every 30k miles/every two years even though they are good for 100-125k miles! Clean and oil the threads or lube them.

Any opinions/advice on how or whether to proceed?

[CTScott]

Maybe try squirting a bit of penetrating oil down into the tubes and let is sit for while. Also try with the engine crazy hot to see if heat helps at all.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I've used my electric impact gun on stuck plugs. I've had more success removing seized fasteners with it than manual tools as the rapid impact of the gun breaks them loose without the risk of twisting and snapping it.

[bronsin]

Maybe try squirting a bit of penetrating oil down into the tubes and let is sit for while. Also try with the engine crazy hot to see if heat helps at all.

I think I'll leave the plastic cover off and try the heat experiment sometime in the future. Would penetrating oil get into the threads even with the plugs unloosened?

[bronsin]

I've used my electric impact gun on stuck plugs. I've had more success removing seized fasteners with it than manual tools as the rapid impact of the gun breaks them loose without the risk of twisting and snapping it.

I have one of those but stripping the threads would be a disaster. Still its something to think about thanks!

[WeeYari]

Maybe try squirting a bit of penetrating oil down into the tubes and let is sit for while. Also try with the engine crazy hot to see if heat helps at all.

^ This.

Also, since you did manage a quarter turn, after penetrating oil has been allowed to work for a bit try backing it out a little then turn back in. Keep doing this and eventually each time you back out it should come a little further.

[bronsin]

^ This.

Also, since you did manage a quarter turn, after penetrating oil has been allowed to work for a bit try backing it out a little then turn back in. Keep doing this and eventually each time you back out it should come a little further.

The problem with that is my back and neck are really screwed up. I need to be able to go to work! The wife needs the car ditto. So the chances to do that are limited. And I can only work about five minutes before needed a rest.

But what penetrating oil do you recommend? all I have is WD40.

[nortonfb]

PB Blaster works well for me.
First I would heat the plugs and spray it as it's cooling, a lot. This will smoke.
The cooling will help draw in the oil. Since you can get a little movement on the plug
keep tightening and loosing to help work the lube in.

[bronsin]

Ive decided to try again to remove the sparkplugs from the wifes Camry with the engine hot this time. If that doesn't work Im going to try and get my money back for them and just go with whats in there forever. I think I know why the plugs are hard to get out. The threads of the plugs aren't sealed from the combustion chamber and brown deposits build up over time, making removal difficult. Add a little corrosion to that and the metal thread in the head will come out if you try and force matters. You can see in the picture Im using a pipe cheater on the ratchet!

BUt Im thinking I better try and get the plugs out of my 09 Yaris with 42K on it before they seize too. So that's another project. I figger get the plastic cover off and one plug out is a days work for my back.

[nortonfb]

Never Seize is your friend.

[bronsin]

Never Seize is your friend.

Do you use it? Ive heard using it on plugs can short them out?

True or false.

If you say you use it OK (or others do too) I will get some.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I always use it. Just a dab'l'do'ya.

[tmontague]

I've always used antiseize, never any issues and plugs always come out like butter

[bronsin]

OK Im sold.

Im thinking have the AS in there on the threads will serve to block the combustion gasses from building up as the brown deposits on the threads. Which is what in my opinion makes the plugs hard to get out if you don't r and r them once in a while.

[ern-diz]

You're only 50, what's with all this old talk?? My pops is 80. He'd say you still have half an egg shell hanging off your @$$ :biggrin:

[bronsin]

59. Torn muscle left lower back 1999. Ruptured disk in the neck 2003. Arthritis in middle back. Botched ingrown toenail operation 2001. No feeling in the feet as a result.

Lumbago in the neck and back. Sounds trivial unless you overdo stuff. Then its like being electrocuted.

Its true Im not old!

[ern-diz]

Yeah, I'm familiar with all that stuff. Not first hand, but from my pops. He's had knee replacement on both knees, titanium put into his lower back, shoulder surgery, arthritis everywhere and more cortisone shots than I can count--among many other things. My best friend is only 44 and takes heavy duty pain meds for back issues. You don't have to be old to suffer from that stuff and it's no joke. I feel for you, bud.

[bronsin]

Actually I have little pain unless I overdo it. Then...look out!

Taking meds to control pain...not good.

[ern-diz]

Agree.

Glad your pain isn't troublesome as long as you take care. Many not so fortunate.

[bronsin]

Got one of the Yaris plugs out this AM. Didn't need the cheater pipe on the ratchet it came right out. Im going to clean the threads with gas and a toothbrush and reinstall it and run to the store for some anti seize later on. The gap measures 044 same as the plug for the Camry. Is this right?

In the picture note how the brown deposits are darkest near the end and get lighter as you move farther away.

Since the sparkplug socket comes of the end of the 6 inch extension when reinstalling the plugs I shoo gooed the socket and extension together to prevent that.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I carefully drop the plug into the hole with needle nose pliers and then use a regular socket (⅝ I think?) to tighten it up.

[bronsin]

That would work. The rubber insert of a standard sparkplug socket can also be lubed with a shot of WD40 so it doesn't grab the plug so tight. But it will still pull the socket off the extension sometimes.

[tmontague]

When my sparkplug socket falls off my extension I just use my magnetic wand tool and pull it out. Obviously this won't work if the socket is still attached to the plug. You can usually insert the extender back into the socket and jiggle it so that it comes off of the plug and then use the magnet to remove it.

[nortonfb]

You need better tools! I use a spark plug socket on a extension. with a dab of anti
seize on the threads. I have never needed to lube the socket.
WD40 is not a real lubricant. It's water displacement (WD) formula 40. It's was designed
to air dry and protect from rust. Yes. it does have some lubricating properties.
Good for guns for long term storage not so good for long term lube.

[bronsin]

Looks like my brother in law is going to get the job of replacing the plugs in the wifes Camry. He has his own repair business specializing in BMWs. I think the plugs can be removed just by torqueing them out using whatever force necessary. Not that I have the ability to do that. Besides if the threads come out he can do the fix.

Im wondering if he will try to get them out and agree with me its best to leave them in there? :iono:

[texascolt45]

Pb blaster is your friend here.I'm gonna change the plugs in my 2015 at maybe 50,000,hopefully I'll catch them before they stick.

[bronsin]

Pb blaster is your friend here.I'm gonna change the plugs in my 2015 at maybe 50,000,hopefully I'll catch them before they stick.

At 41k on my 09 Yaris they came out easy enough.

[texascolt45]

the trick to starting plugs is a piece of vacuum or fuel hose.fit tight on the plug and just drop it in the plug hole.it kinda self aligns and starts.

[mehullica]

Run the engine to operating temp, remove the coil & soak the plug with Kroil after loosening it. Work the plug back & forth. I doubt it strips. If it does, you can Time-sert it. If you don't want to Time-set it yourself, take it to a local machine shop & they'll do it on the car for about $50-$80. Never use Heli-coil, use only Time-sert.

[bronsin]

Ive r and r ed all the plugs in my 09 Yaris, cleaned the deposits off with solvent and a bristle brush and lubed them with copper antiseize and checked the gaps (they were good). In another 30k miles I'll r and r them again and relube to keep them from seizeing as well as check the gaps. I don't plan to ever change them but then again at 3000 miles a year in 20 years that'll be 60k miles and I wont need a car anymore anyways.

That leaves the wifes Camrys plugs. They've never been out at 126k and are stuck. Or at least #1 is. (didn't check the others) My brother in law is going to get that job. But if somehow he doesn't do it I might try all the suggestions myself. (ie warm the engine, loosen the plugs, douse with PB or Croil and turn them out. I figger about six months start to finish.

[BIGTAZ351]

Bronsin, you are everywhere.. saw your name on a diesel thread... 3bt? 4bt? Or 7.3L? Anyway I changed mine on the Yaris at 75K replaced with BOSCHs with anti-seize as always! I anti seize my lug nuts too..

EDIT: BOSCH PUGS NOT NGK!

[bronsin]

Bronsin, you are everywhere.. saw your name on a diesel thread... 3bt? 4bt? Or 7.3L? Anyway I changed mine on the Yaris at 75K replaced with NGKs with anti-seize as always! I anti seize my lug nuts too..

Yes a few years ago I bought an ~86 Ford Diesel for $1000 and used it for chores and also made it available for the neighbors projects. (good public relations) :headbang: Under NJ laws it didn't have to be inspected but I found out the cops were using old vehicles as cash cows writing tickets for $$$ for various defects so I had to sell it.

One thing about antiseize on lug nuts is it can change the torque readings ie you over do the torque. I find if you have hubcaps or acorn lung nuts theres seldom a problem. A shot of WD40 on the tightened open type nuts also helps.

[Bluevitz-rs]

^^^^

This is very true. I found out the hard way a long time ago and broke two studs. The nut felt like it was tightening up to 75ft/lbs then went loose and then POP!

[nortonfb]

If I remember correctly; When using Never Seize reduce torque by 10%.

[WeeYari]

If I remember correctly; When using Never Seize reduce torque by 10%.


Really? Never heard of that.

I don't buy it. Torque would be measured by the resistance between contact surfaces, not how slippery the threads are.


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[Bluevitz-rs]

Really? Never heard of that.

I don't buy it. Torque would be measured by the resistance between contact surfaces, not how slippery the threads are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The lubrication of the anti-seize reduces friction between surfaces of the threads and changes the torque. The exact same way oil inside the engine reduces friction between rotating parts. IDK about the 10% thing but usually if a torque rating doesn't call for lubrication, don't lube it.

Even with that said I only apply the smallest amount of grease to the threads so they don't rust on wheel stud. Anti-seize as I found from personal experience can drastically change the torque rating.

But on spark plugs, they aren't torqued, they are set to usually an amount of rotation to compress the gasket.

[bronsin]

I agree with Bluevitz-rs about antiseize increasing torque and will go one further that most torque values that Ive seen spec no oil or grease on the threads either. Because they do the same thing ie make a 25 reading a 30 actual torque.

Most of the time it wont matter but it can fall right in your lap once in a while.

[nortonfb]

We can agree their is a difference of torque value when using lube.
In regards to spark plugs there is also a difference of length in the combustion chamber.
Maybe that's the reason? It's beyond my knowledge.

[bronsin]

We can agree their is a difference of torque value when using lube.
In regards to spark plugs there is also a difference of length in the combustion chamber.
Maybe that's the reason? It's beyond my knowledge.


Hmm IMO length of sparkplug in combustion chamber COULD be an issue. But its unlikely that a sparkplug torqued with AS and one torqued without AS would have a differing length of plug in the CC to make any difference. Personally I never use a torque wrench I go strictly by feel. Now....if I were torqueing a cylinder head I would probably run out and get a TW.

In general I think we worry too much about everything in general. Having said that, theres no doubt disasters happen. My parents were nurse anesthetists and told us kids 1 in 100 operations end up with a fatality/very unpleasant result due to the anesthesia. But that isn't going to stop most people from having an operation.

I have been leaving my keys in my car and motorcycle for some time now UNDER CONDITIONS I HAVE OBSERVED FOR A LONG TIME. No problem! Who's going to be looking for keys left in a car in Westmont NJ? Very few people.

See we worry to much. :bow:

[nortonfb]

People in NJ should worry!
Turned a job there once. Reason was I was in East Orange and Camden.
Didn't like the scenery. After talking to a few cops in NJ. cinched it.
After spending a lot of time building Brit bikes, torque is usually not important.
In my car that I rely on I'm more fussy. Besides, I have a torque wrench, so I feel justified
in looking for excuses to use it.
Check your auto insurance you may find a difference in coverage by leaving the keys in it.

[BIGTAZ351]

I could see that the AS on the lug nuts causing over torquing, IF you were using a torque wrench. I Personally do not use a torque wrench on anything outside of the internals of an engine... I know this may rub some people the wrong way... I have been wrenching since I was 5, (Grandfather had a small engine repair business) Working on everything from 1930's JD Tractors, all the way to my 2012 Arctic Cat ATV. My father worked at the Ford dealership as a Mecanic and was a shadetree mechanic... I can tell you: I have a 2004 Six Lug F150 and they (Ford and Tire Shops) seem to think that they need to be torqued to 150 ft-lbs (dry of course) they are NUTS, (also if torqued to 150 with anti-sieze you could snap or stretch the studs) I have been tightening them with anti-sieze "By Feel" to the same torque I have all lug nuts (Roughly 75-80 ft-lbs) NEVER had an issue taking them off, or coming off prematurely... BUT I have steel wheels with Conical seats on all but my ATVs. Back to topic: AS on steel sparkplugs in aluminum heads is a MUST... I also didn't use a T-wrench on my plugs either (I am on the naughty list).. but I have installed my fair share of gasket seat plugs in aluminum heads too.

[BIGTAZ351]

IMO the sparkplug could only extend too far in the Combustion Chamber only if you put the plug in without the gasket.. after all I *think* the 13:1 fxe also uses a similar plug with mucch less space... I agree with bronsin, Mostly anyway... But not when it comes to leaving keys in the ignition or synthetic oil.. LOL.. but that isnt what this is about. :)

[bronsin]

... I agree with bronsin, Mostly anyway... But not when it comes to leaving keys in the ignition or synthetic oil.. LOL.. but that isnt what this is about. :)

See what you think about this...Im pretty sure its the truth about global warming.:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDErDwXqhc

[bronsin]

People in NJ should worry!
Turned a job there once. Reason was I was in East Orange and Camden.
Didn't like the scenery. After talking to a few cops in NJ. cinched it.
After spending a lot of time building Brit bikes, torque is usually not important.
In my car that I rely on I'm more fussy. Besides, I have a torque wrench, so I feel justified
in looking for excuses to use it.
Check your auto insurance you may find a difference in coverage by leaving the keys in it.

I work in Camden for 30+ years with no problems but I work downtown, not in the neighborhoods. One of my friends grew up in Camden but moved away. I asked him "John what are those scars on your neck? Did you have a fusion operation?"

He says "No some Camden citizens thought I was someone else they had a problem with when I was 12. Three of them jumped me one night. Two of them held me down while the third cut my throat. Luckily they made a bad job of it." :eek:

[BIGTAZ351]

See what you think about this...Im pretty sure its the truth about global warming.:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDErDwXqhc

Global Warming or Climate Change = Scam by way of Fear-Mongering to fleece money out of the U.S. Government!

We have only 100-150 years of environmental history...

Its like going to the Dr. and telling him how you have been feeling in the last 10 minutes.