Feeler for my 2zr Vios

[tmontague]

I'm currently at a cross roads with what I want to do with my car situation. I love my 2zr Vios and it is in excellent shape with most things new on it. That said, I have always wanted a wrx and love the boxer rumble. To make my Vios reach its full potential I plan on installing an LSD next summer but realistically with it all said and done I'm at least $1500 CAD in the hole.

I've been searching the local Kijiji sections lately and there are a handful of '02-'05 wrx's for sale in the ball park of around $7-10k. Now comes the big decision, so I keep my Vios like I had always planned and drop another couple grand into it, or do I sell it and get my dream dd?

I know the Vios is a reliable work horse and I know my way around everything in that car and the wrx would be less reliable and I'd have a lot to learn, but I don't feel that is the best option to not take on something new.

So at this point I'm trying to gauge if there is any interest in potential buyers for my Vios and if so what are they willing to pay for it?

I'm not willing to put fourth much extra cash for the wrx so I would hope to sell my Vios for what I would pay for a WRX or as close to it as possible. If this doesn't workout than not a big deal as I love my Vios, but I'm at that point now.

So if you're interested (and have the means to actually make it happen) either post here or shoot me a pm. I need to know what $ amount I'm working with so that I have an idea and my budget

[MedMantle]

Man I feel your struggle. Just yesterday I was planning to sell my 1.3 for a 6-speed 2zr Yaris Hatch. Then I saw for exactly half the price I could also get a reasonable stock WRX.. :(

I cried long tears as I'm quite sentimental about my car.. ended up just leaving things as they are. I feel I stand out among the hordes of Polo's and Focus's in my area despite being waay slower and quite basic.

I reckon don't be hasty, I turned away a non-turbo MK4 Supra (my dream project car) for the sake of reliability and repair costs, then again if I was a high roller and had the space for two cars I wouldive snatched that Supra.. see, this is why doves cry haha

Good luck with your decision man **

[Captain Yaris]

Oh man! I don't want to fuel the fire buuuttttt, I loved my '06 WRX. That car always put a smile on my face with just a blip of the throttle. I remember it definitely ate more gas but it got more "miles per smiles" that's for sure!!!

[tmontague]

I reckon don't be hasty

agreed, this is something that I'm taking my time with for sure. I'll be posting my car up either tomorrow or Wednesday priced probably around $8500 CAD obo.

As of now it seems I either get an '02 with just over 300k km for around $4.5-5.5k or spend around $10 grand for one that is in unreal condition with only 211k km on it. Much of this will be dependent on what my Yaris will fetch. I'm not opposed to getting one with 300k km on it as an oem engine swap (or jdm EJ 207) isn't a hard job nor too expensive. I just don't want to have the car grenade within the first few months as it'll be my daily.

I'll be going this week to look at a few and see them first hand. I spoke with a seller today and he had no idea what I was asking him, genuinely clueless when it comes to anything WRX. Also a 52y/o who thought it would be a fun car to buy as an extra 2 years ago, now realized his age and he rarely uses it to it's potential.

I'll keep this thread updated as well as link to my ad once it posted

[SirDigby]

i hate subaru. they are the worst. this is just my opinion, and that opinion is YUCK!

[ern-diz]

Yeah, I love everything about them, but I know some Subaru owners and follow some others on Wheelwell and they have their issues to deal with. Different years seem to have different issues. You are obviously a very capable gear-head and on top of doing your homework on cars, so I'm sure you know what you're getting into. If I was as good of a wrench-turner as you are, I wouldn't mind trading some reliability for more fun factor either.

[MugenRep]

Yeah, I love everything about them, but I know some Subaru owners and follow some others on Wheelwell and they have their issues to deal with. Different years seem to have different issues. You are obviously a very capable gear-head and on top of doing your homework on cars, so I'm sure you know what you're getting into. If I was as good of a wrench-turner as you are, I wouldn't mind trading some reliability for more fun factor either.

I 100% agree with this and the fact that Subaru/Fuji Industries never release patents (which make repairs EXPENSIVE) has made me only ever want to consider an H6 Subaru (EZ30, EZ36, or EG33). I'd definitely never consider any used EJ25 with all the abuse and issues I constantly see people deal with when buying them secondhand. I would probably consider an EJ20 though as they don't seem to be anywhere near as unreliable in the long run as the EJ25 as long as they weren't beat to crap.

* I also just had a buddy drop about $10k on a 6 speed, twin scroll, and other items for his bugeye wagon. I'm just past my point in life where I want to dump that much change on an "upgrade" for any type of DD or weekend car. If it were something for road/track/AutoX/drag, that'd be different, but Subarus are just too much money IMO and Honda K-series > Subies.

[SirDigby]

i love how MugenRep up here^^^ makes mention of patents but does not mention how subaru totally ripped-off honda's VtEC system. what a bunch of lazy jerks.
sorry, i really don't like subaru

[zoidberg444]

The struggle is real. On the one hand i would love a Subaru. Especially a WRX. I would never be able to afford the fuel bill though. It would have to be a second car for me. They are a very complex piece of engineering. There is a lot to go wrong and parts are expensive in this country anyway even if you did the work yourself. You see a lot of luxury and performance cars that are cheap to buy, but just because you can buy them doesn't mean you can run them if they start going wrong.

Apparently they made a few modifications to the turbo EJ25's so they don't blow through head gaskets all the time. I think they made a change to the head with a small bit of reinforcement and the headbolts are under higher torque.

Another problem you will probably run into is the car will probably be pretty corroded. Subaru's have a more complex drive train and its going to be even more of a pain dealing with seized rusty crap.

[tmontague]

So it looks like I won't be going anywhere. Sorry for the delay in posting this but my week has been too hectic for a long post. In short, I'm keeping my 2zr Vios and I'll be finishing up some expensive modifications over the next year. I don't want to be the one to cry wolf and go back on my plan but after some long rational thinking and a good conversation with Tom (Armstrong Racing) I have decided to abandon switching my Vios for a first gen WRX. I was originally fully going ahead with the idea and had called a handful of sellers to see which ones I was going to look at, but I have now decided to call that off.


Here's the long reason why. I decided to reach out to Tom who on top of racing a 2zr Vios, is a Subie Master tech. and in in a similar position to myself in regards to having a family to also take care of. He gave me some great insight and one thing that stood out to me was when he mentioned that the 2zr Vios is a faster car than a WRX. He also brought up a good point with the steep costs of aftermarket and oem Subie parts. If I blow my clutch on my 2zr I can get a Luk one for $120...no where close to that for one for a WRX.

I would have been able to purchase an '02-04 WRX for roughly a close a mount to what I could sell my Vios for. The main reason for not pulling the trigger came down to the reliability. Until I become board licensed and start my career - more than a year away - I only have the option have one car, a DD that doubles as a fun autox and soon to be track car. I can flog my engine day in and day out and not once do I ever worry about a spun bearing or a blown piston. Every morning when I turn the car on to travel over 200km across the gta I never worry about it not starting.

If I have a WRX it would have at least 250k km and most have about 300k km. I wouldn't even trust it to go WOT let alone to start every morning for my commute. I don't want to have a car where i have the thought of doubt sitting in the back of my mind. If I could keep my Vios and and buy a used WRX I would in a heart beat, but since I can only have 1 car, there is no way I'll feel good about only having a WRX. In 3-5 years I'll be purchasing a second car as a track build/weekend canyon runner and it will likely be a used gt-86 and then I won't have to worry about an engine blowing...that time is not for a while though.

I know virtually everything about my Vios and the vast majority of things in it are new aftermarket parts that I now don't need to worry about wearing out for a long time. It also has much less moving parts than an awd car soo less to go wrong and much less in cost. Every bolt on my Vios has been anti seized and the frame has zero rust on it which makes working on it a dream. A 13-15 year old WRX is likely going to be a hassle to work on due to rust even if the body seems fine. Tires and rims are cheap for the Vios and it has new wheel bearings, bushings all a bunch of other things. WRX rims and wheels are never cheap unfortunately.

In the end, the rational choice was to stick with my Vios. As Tom stated, it is a very rare car and I definitely agree. Most people ask me what type of car I have as they don't even recognise it for a Yaris due to it's stance and rear lip etc. I have always loved that about this car.

It's always more fun driving a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I want to start doing autox and some fun track days with Touge at least by next summer and my Vios I can trust to take me to the track and home after some hot laps. There's no way I'd trust the WRX to do some hot laps and take me home.

So the future plans are to install an LSD into a separate used trans so I can take it apart and better understand how the trans works. Once MWR comes out with their long tube header which they said may have by the end of the year I'll be buying that right away.

I have the oil filter conversion parts ordered so that I can have my oil gauges properly installed as my oil temp currently doesn't read accurately. I will also be ordering some BF Goodrich Sport comp 2's for next summer to help hook up the power.

I'm happy to keep the car I love and know inside and out, unfortunately my boxer addiction will have to wait a few more years.:wub:

[NYC-SE]

Welcome back to the fold.

[ern-diz]

Sounds like you've thought it all out, which is the smart thing to do. Like you, I love the response I get from people on my Yaris. It's just not something people see often, and with yours being swapped, it's even more cool and unique.

[MugenRep]

Glad to hear you're keeping her! I wish I could get a 2zr into my iQ, but it's looking pretty doubtful with keeping the forward facing differential versus rear facing.

I've had a 340whp SRT4, a 244whp Civic, 285whp supercharged civic, R32, and several other cars (SVO, XR4TI, etc.). The only thing I can say is to enjoy the car for the chassis, feel, and emotion of building it. It's easy to start with a faster car in a straight line these days, it's becoming much more rare to see somebody put time in work into something others think isn't worthwhile.

Also I love your statement, better to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I 100% agree with you.

[tmontague]

I appreciate the input all. I am surprised at how well the Yaris can handle with a handful of mods. I have put a fair amount of $ into it but for an econo box with no "sports" option it is surprising. I'm sure the light weight has something to do with it - my car weighs just over 2600 lbs (as per a scale at a metal scrappers).

I do agree with Mugen's above post regarding a civic with K-series engine being a great option. I'd love a high (8.5k) reving engine with just under 200hp as I prefer all engine set ups. Problem is I find the newer civic way too large and heavy of a car and the older ones (<2002) just don't have the sleekness that a modified Yaris has. I care about function>form but I am very particular about how my car looks and always want it to be classy. A civic doesn't fit that bill for me, but that engine though...:cool:

Once I get a hold of a long tube header I should hopefully be sitting around 145 whp based off of Armstrong's dyno paired with the fact that I have the MWR flywheel.

IMO 145whp in this car with an eventual LSD and UHP tires should be a super fun set up. Since rims and rubber are relatively inexpensive on this car, purchasing a track wheel set up will be possible in the future as well.

[ern-diz]

:thumbup:

[MugenRep]

I appreciate the input all. I am surprised at how well the Yaris can handle with a handful of mods. I have put a fair amount of $ into it but for an econo box with no "sports" option it is surprising. I'm sure the light weight has something to do with it - my car weighs just over 2600 lbs (as per a scale at a metal scrappers).

I do agree with Mugen's above post regarding a civic with K-series engine being a great option. I'd love a high (8.5k) reving engine with just under 200hp as I prefer all engine set ups. Problem is I find the newer civic way too large and heavy of a car and the older ones (<2002) just don't have the sleekness that a modified Yaris has. I care about function>form but I am very particular about how my car looks and always want it to be classy. A civic doesn't fit that bill for me, but that engine though...:cool:

Once I get a hold of a long tube header I should hopefully be sitting around 145 whp based off of Armstrong's dyno paired with the fact that I have the MWR flywheel.

IMO 145whp in this car with an eventual LSD and UHP tires should be a super fun set up. Since rims and rubber are relatively inexpensive on this car, purchasing a track wheel set up will be possible in the future as well.

Really love your Vios and what you and Armstrong have brought to the community! You guys rock!:headbang:

[tarkus]

You've gotta love the uniqueness of the 2zr Viios. WRXs are all over the place in the Toronto area. Nothing really unique there


Sent from my phone. Please excuse any typpos.

[SirDigby]

you could always buy a subaru engine and build it up wile you wait. then you can find a nice one with a blown engine...

[thebarber]

Brapapapap

[Lux]

tmontague,
Let me know if you are interested in race tyres and wheels for the Yaris.

I have BFGoodrich R1 race tyre mounted on brand new 949 Racing wheels that I would be happy to pass on to someone local.

I have 5 hours and 30 minutes on them.

[tmontague]

Hmm interested for sure. Not sure I'm the $ situation Wil allow for those until next summer though. What's the offset and width of the rims and rubber?

[Lux]

The 949 Racing wheel dimension is:
15 x 7 inches
offset +24 mm
spigot diameter 54.1 mm
mounting pattern 4 x 100 mm
BF Goodrich G-Force R1 tyre size is 205/50R15
guaranteed wheel clearance for any of the biggest big brake kits you can buy

I'm in no hurry to sell, just no time to use them anymore so I want to pass them on to someone local who will enjoy them. I may install them again next month for a final track session and the price will go down accordingly for that use. It would be the last time I plan to install them, too.

[tmontague]

Thanks Lux, those would fit my set up. Do you have a price in mind? This will be something I'm looking at over the winter for next summer

[Lux]

Does $600 sound fair? I'll throw in a set of Rays Engineering wheel nuts and locks too in gunmetal grey colour that fit the wheel. (They are genuine Japanese-made Rays, no eBay knock offs.) The 949 Racing 6UL wheel can be viewed here:
http://949racing.com/15x7-6UL-SM.aspx

The wheels are made for Spec Miata one-make race series. Mazda Roadster shares the same hub spigot and stud pattern, so the wheels will attach to our Yaris like OEM fit. I ordered them in Tungsten metallic colour. If memory serves me right, it cost CAD $1'087 to buy and ship here last summer, including import duty, brokerage, exchange rate, freight, and insurance. Ordered with optional matching Tungsten metallic aluminium tyre valves, set of 8. There are two valves per wheel, which is a common trait in competition. Tyres have had 2 seasons, but the wheels were used, literally, 5 and a half hours, then washed on my lawn using Autoglym wheel cleaner.

Honestly man, my wife is sick of looking at them in the basement (LOL......) and I have no time/desire to race any more, so I'll definitely hook up a fellow Yaris World community member.

You can take the wheels now and pay me later, whenever you are ready since you're local. Pay me next year if you want, I'm totally cool with it.:headbang:

Here were the wheels test mounted last year from another thread, and a pic of them now:

http://i67.tinypic.com/2eulisl.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2zrkvgj.jpg

**edit: forgot to mention, the tyres are filled with nitrogen and pressure set to 1.9 bar. :)

[tmontague]

Do you Have the weight of the rims by any chance? My phone won't let me load the link right now.

Also own that 5 hours of use on a track or just driving around?

I go to school near you (401 and Leslie) so I can pick them up on a Saturday after my clinic rotation

[Lux]

The 6UL Spec Miata version is weighed at 13.1 lbs (6 kg). It is 1.1 kg heavier than the base model 6UL 15x7 due to:
- minimum 6 kg wheel weight requirement for racing class
- additional material focused to barrel and outer flanges for maximum durability

The 5.5 hours was during day session at Cayuga road course last August. I use my stock wheels to commute to and from the track. I have to warn you that the tyres are not road legal and are outrageously dangerous in the rain. Wheels are in absolutely perfect condition aside from friction abrasion where the wheel nuts attach.

Saturday works perfectly. I will be at work in Scarborough so I will bring the wheels and Rays nuts with me for you to pick up. Cheers

[tmontague]

Sounds good. I'm done my shift at 2. Let me know your cell # mine is 6547 238 3960