First NO START ever

[robkay]

2007 Hatchback. Almost 112,000. Battery only a couple months old.

Car had been running fine. No warning. Went out to start it yesterday. It would turn over fine, but only chug and sputter a few times and shut off. Tried it 3-4 times. Same thing every time.

Thanks in advance, guys!

[komichal]

Just a few "user tips" from my end:
- No "check engine" light on the dashboard?
- Try a second car key. Immobilizer in the first one may be damaged.
- Enough fresh fuel in tank? (sorry for such a stupid question)
- Have you ever experiences something like that?
- Did you install some "visual tuning" recently? I have seen a glowing ring around ignition installed and it completely confused the immobilizer.
- How old are the spark plugs?
- Anything suspicious under the hood? Lose belt, cracked hoses, lose connectors...
- Check the airbox (is air filter in acceptable condition? All paths opened, no mouse stuck in the hose?)

[robkay]

Just a few "user tips" from my end:

- No "check engine" light on the dashboard?
Never got around to resetting it since the last oil change, so it has been on ever since.

- Try a second car key. Immobilizer in the first one may be damaged.
I don't have electric locks. Tried a new OEM key I had saved, but still no start.

- Enough fresh fuel in tank? (sorry for such a stupid question)
Plenty of fuel.

- Have you ever experiences something like that?
Never.

- Did you install some "visual tuning" recently? I have seen a glowing ring around ignition installed and it completely confused the immobilizer.
Don't even know what it is.

- How old are the spark plugs?
Original. But, it had been starting fine.

- Anything suspicious under the hood? Lose belt, cracked hoses, lose connectors...
Don't see anything. Belt is good. Fluids are all up.
New belt, water pump, and alternator in 2015.

- Check the airbox (is air filter in acceptable condition? All paths opened, no mouse stuck in the hose?)
Looks OK to me. Filter pretty clean.

Tried to start it again. It turns over great, just will not start.

[WeeYari]

Check/clean/tighten the battery terminals. We actually had a member not too long ago reporting starting issues. Turned out one of the terminal connectors was loose.

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[WeeYari]

I'm also wondering if fuel pumps can get weak. We've had some die, but I don't recall any that have no longer managed to maintain pressure.

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[dogsridewith]

Terminals and connectors at the battery can also develop a non conductive grey coating.
Check grounds and any connections accessible where the battery cables go? (There's one ground pretty close to the battery.)

oops. just re-read post one and see it is cranking fine. It would be nice to have a minimal fuel pressure gauge somewhere.

[robkay]

Just put a new battery in it a couple months ago. Terminals are clean as a whistle and tight. None of that dark gray stuff yet. It's too new. Starter turns over strong. Have not checked the grounds, though.

[dogsridewith]

Can we pull a coil pack, then it's plug, then reassemble where the plug is visible (with plug base grounded) and crank it over to see if there's spark?

[robkay]

Can we pull a coil pack, then it's plug, then reassemble where the plug is visible (with plug base grounded) and crank it over to see if there's spark?

Gosh, I'm not sure what a "coil pack" is. I remember the old way of pulling a plug wire and holding it close to the spark plug, then having someone turn the key to see if it generates a spark. (Sometimes generating a :eek: in the process.)

I've never actually dug far enough down in there to see where the plugs are on this car. Maybe you could elaborate for me?

[dogsridewith]

There's no distributer or points. Something like a non-contact Hall effect sensor on and/or adjacent something mechanical in the engine that spins makes low voltage impulses that get electronically turned into sparks by an individual coil sitting on top of each spark plug. (screwed to the head so it stays in place, and possibly grounding it.)

[dogsridewith]

Gosh, I'm not sure what a "coil pack" is. I remember the old way of pulling a plug wire and holding it close to the spark plug, then having someone turn the key to see if it generates a spark. (Sometimes generating a :eek: in the process.)


I've never actually dug far enough down in there to see where the plugs are on this car. Maybe you could elaborate for me?
Responding here only to "old-way" parts:
If held next to the wire end of the plug, then the system needs to spark two places to make any spark. Also many plug-wire ends have metal up inside a non-conductive rubber boot cover. Alternative is to remove plug, install plug-wire, and lay/restrain the thread end of the plug to the head...or wire it to something metal.

[robkay]

Had it towed in to a shop. This one is beyond my abilities. Will report back. THX folks!

[dogsridewith]

10 mm socket to remove four acorn nuts and the head cover to see what the coil packs look like...no fluids involved. no gaskets. just a dumb plastic cover.

Guys that know the answer to my earlier question--can a plug be stuck in a removed coil pack to check spark--are LTAO. I'm guessing the wire harness to the coils is too short and stiff to manipulate one this way? Code reading is supposed to assure us there's a spark?

[robkay]

I actually had to towed in early yesterday afternoon. Sure, I could have taken that cover off. But, part of it is a matter of time. I only have the one car. It's not like it would start and just run rough, like one bad wire or coil pack. It would not start period. I'm thinking maybe the starter or fuel pump.

[Kubcat]

I had an issue where the fuel hose inside the fuel pump tank assembly had worked its way loose and no fuel was flowing out. It went out the fuel pump and leaked back into the tank.

I guess step 1 is to determine if you have the basics, spark and fuel.

As suggested above with the coil packs, that is checking spark.

The rubber fuel line coming into the injector rail has a clip fitting. Removing this after an attempted start will tell you if there is fuel pressure going to the injectors.

[WeeYari]

OP has posted twice that the car has been towed to a shop. Time to wait for him to report back and stop with the grasping at straws advice.

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[dogsridewith]

OP didn't say it was a Toyota dealer shop. Some prior experiences w/ a particular model might be of interest to a local mechanic who works on many different types.
So these cars keep running on three with one bad coil? Does the injector for the bad cylinder keep spraying fuel?

[robkay]

What I'm told is that after the car was rolled off the tow truck an employee tried to start the car and it started for him. It is said to have run pretty rough, but it started and they were able to park it.

Later, when they started it to run it into the shop, they said it started and ran fine. In any case, they found two trouble codes stored. One was related to a brake sensor. This one is old and I know what it was. It was related to the ABS light coming on a couple years ago. That one I was able to fix myself thanks to the help here.

The code that appears to be of significance is code U0105 -- Lost Communication With Fuel Injector Control Module. During the process of researching that, and trying to decide what diagnostic path to take, the car was started and driven multiple times over a few days time. I am told that it started and ran fine every time.

The shop did not want to start replacing parts I might not need or, without the presence of the actual symptom, have to charge me for a lot of tech time chasing after the wind. So, the conclusion we came to was, "It's running. It shows no more signs of the original problem. Why not just drive it and see what happens?" They did not charge me a penny.

So that's the result.

The shop I usually go to is about 55 miles away. They are real good and specialize in Japanese makes. A tow would have been about $300, so that was not a realistic option. I did speak with them about it, though. The owner said had never actually encountered that U0105 code and was baffled. He was highly skeptical that there would be any wiring or connection issue, as he said if there is anything Toyota has mastered it is wiring. He said they just do not see wiring/connection issues on Toyotas. (I imagine if a car has been modified or wrecked all bets are off. But mine has had neither.)

So.....a solar flare? A hangover from too much ethanol? :iono: Wait and see I guess.

[dogsridewith]

I'd want to find connectors involving wiring of the Fuel Injector Control Module. In case the problem returns. Which connectors and wires to wiggle a bit.
Hidden spring-claws and stiffly together connectors, no two on the car the same, invite rough treatment in opening. Maybe thing I dislike the least about Toyotas I've owned. Wait until you hear the Module-Madness Yaris taillight connector/wiring problem I plan to share soon.

[robkay]

OK, back to (hopefully) wrap this up. Since my last post the car has continued to start and run great. But, as a precaution, I drove the car up to my favorite shop. The did a full head to toe inspection keeping an eye out for anything that might have caused my starting problem or generate that U0105 code. They found nothing.

The guys were all puzzled over that code. The owner, who is an older guy and has worked on a ton of Toyota's, could only say that with today's computerized electronics in cars, he has seen rare instances where something fluky like this happens out of the blue. It seems to just go away and not happen again--or at least for a long time. He likened it to our home computers that sometimes start to act strangely and just have to be rebooted.

Was there a cause? Well, there had to be. But, whatever it was, it seems to be gone now. :iono:

[08yaris001]

I xm having the exact issue with the exact response from the dealer. I know this has been awhile but did your issue ever resurface or did it truly self resolve? Thanks

[Gdawgs]

I've experienced this several times with various vehicles, a Yaris, a 2001 Sienna, my kid's 2006 Camry, a 1995 Dodge Neon, and a coworker of mine had it happen to his Camry.

In every case, here's what happened. The engine was completely cold(had been shut off for several hours), the car was started very briefly (for example - back it out of the garage), then the engine was shut off, then the car sat for a long time(several hours/over night).

Then when you go to start it, it acts like a flooded engine back in the carburetor days.
Typically, if you keep cranking on it, it will eventually start, probably smoke, then run rough for a little bit.

My coworker had his towed to a shop, and the same thing. They got it started, it ran rough for a bit, then was fine.

I can't speak to any engine codes though, I've never checked.

Now, I never do a short engine run like this. If I have to back my car out of the garage or move it a short distance on a cold engine, I always take it for a short drive first.

Not saying this is what has happened in the instances posted here, but a possibility.