6 speed swap project

[ArmstrongRacing]

Hey guys, I didn't want this info to get lost at the end of my 2zr swap thread so I started a new one. I'm using a C60 close ratio 6 speed transmission from a 2003 Toyota Celica GTS.

Check out the first writeup here:
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/is-a-6-speed-transmission-faster

Part 1 | C60 Teardown:
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-1-the-c60-tear-down

Part 2 | C60 repairs:
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-2-the-c60-inspection-and-repair

Part 3 | C60/C50 Case Fitting:
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-3-case-fitting-and-final-assembly

Part 4 | C60 Install and Axles:
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-4-c60-install-axles-and-initial-tests

*THE VIDEO* Toyota Yaris 6 Speed Swap | First Drive:
https://youtu.be/lEvpjvi1w8A

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/uploads/7/4/0/2/74028615/published/c60-transmission.png?1510637772

[Bluevitz-rs]

When I swapped my C160 into my car it was a bell housing swap and frame notch to get it to fit. The C60 is virtually identical, except there are a couple different versions. Mostly just forward mount or rear mount shift cables. The C60 also uses larger axles splines vs the C160 which is why I went with the C160. I was able to retain the stock axles.

Good luck with the swap. You'll really enjoy the ultra short gearing for track duty.

[ern-diz]

This absolutely warrants it's own thread. The short vid ending with your smug mug got a chuckle out of me, too lol.

[tmontague]

Giddy up!

[ArmstrongRacing]

When I swapped my C160 into my car it was a bell housing swap and frame notch to get it to fit. The C60 is virtually identical, except there are a couple different versions. Mostly just forward mount or rear mount shift cables. The C60 also uses larger axles splines vs the C160 which is why I went with the C160. I was able to retain the stock axles.

Good luck with the swap. You'll really enjoy the ultra short gearing for track duty.

Interesting.

Do you have any idea what axles I'll need for the C60 differential? I'm thinking of trying a set of xD axles first, unless there is a reference somewhere for spline specs?

[Bluevitz-rs]

Interesting.

Do you have any idea what axles I'll need for the C60 differential? I'm thinking of trying a set of xD axles first, unless there is a reference somewhere for spline specs?

I have a first gen, so your application might be different.

Are you using stock yaris axles now with stock hubs?

[Bluevitz-rs]

Just read your blog...

You might just need to swap the diff from the 5 speed and you'll be all set as the axles fit it already. C60 uses an 8 bolt diff, so if the C50 has the same thing, all you should need to do is change the ring gear.

[1zzVitz05]

In my Echo, i was able to use the stock axle in a C59 5speed bolted to my 1zz, every where i read the conversion 5 to 6 speed c60 would not need new axles on a corolla or vibe based car.So i would be able to fit the stock axles in the c60 in Theorie. You guys agree?

Theres a guy here in quebec, used the 2zz axles in a yaris hub and stock 5speed trans. Are the axles from vibe,celica, and matrix all the same?

[CrankyOldMan]

You might just need to swap the diff from the 5 speed and you'll be all set as the axles fit it already. C60 uses an 8 bolt diff, so if the C50 has the same thing, all you should need to do is change the ring gear.

Sadly, there are two different sized 8-bolt differentials. I learned that the hard way when I bought the wrong Quaife LSD and had to pay a 25% restock fee. The larger displacement engines use an 8-bolt diff with a different diameter shoulder for the final drive ring gear and a different spline count in the spider gears. It might be possible to swap spider gears (I could check using the spare diffs from my gearbox teardown) but it's easier to just find an OEM axle that works.

From what I can see online, the spline counts from the xD are correct. Not sure about diameter and length of the insert stub, or if it's the same diameter, but I'd be willing to bet that they will work.

[ArmstrongRacing]

Sadly, there are two different sized 8-bolt differentials. I learned that the hard way when I bought the wrong Quaife LSD and had to pay a 25% restock fee. The larger displacement engines use an 8-bolt diff with a different diameter shoulder for the final drive ring gear and a different spline count in the spider gears. It might be possible to swap spider gears (I could check using the spare diffs from my gearbox teardown) but it's easier to just find an OEM axle that works.

From what I can see online, the spline counts from the xD are correct. Not sure about diameter and length of the insert stub, or if it's the same diameter, but I'd be willing to bet that they will work.

Awesome Sam, thank you. I'm assuming at this point all of the sub-compact Toyotas use a 23 spline axle, and the regular duty cars like the corolla, use the 20 spline. It looks like the Scion xD has once again become a very important part of the Yaris swap project

[atomic_hoji]

:eek:
Anxiously waiting to see what you come up with this time.. :thumbsup:

-- Adam

[deng]

4.5 fd sounds nice. My only gripe about the c60 is the shifter feeling sucks.

[ArmstrongRacing]

4.5 fd sounds nice. My only gripe about the c60 is the shifter feeling sucks.

Thats odd, since the C60 and C50 have the same shift mechanism inside the trans. It must be something related to the C60 not having counter weights on the end of the shift rod, where the C50 does.

[ArmstrongRacing]

OK guys, here is Part 1 of the 6 speed project, C60 teardown and comparison.

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-1-the-c60-tear-down

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/uploads/7/4/0/2/74028615/c60-internals_orig.jpg

[3cyltrbo]

MOAR

[ArmstrongRacing]

MOAR

I had to replace some synchros but ill update the blog with Part 2 this week. Thats the gamble with junk-yard transmissions, no big deal though.

[3cyltrbo]

I had to replace some synchros but ill update the blog with Part 2 this week. Thats the gamble with junk-yard transmissions, no big deal though.


dude

thanks for documenting all this.

....you say that you got the tranny from a junkyard, did you price them out brandnew first? / I'd be curious to know if Toyota transmissions are cheap like Honda transmissions? (ie: you can get a brandnew B-Series transmission for like $1800)

[ArmstrongRacing]

dude

thanks for documenting all this.

....you say that you got the tranny from a junkyard, did you price them out brandnew first? / I'd be curious to know if Toyota transmissions are cheap like Honda transmissions? (ie: you can get a brandnew B-Series transmission for like $1800)

I looked online briefly and saw the used C60's going for $700-1000, they are still a rare and coveted item I guess. Honestly when you start a project like this not knowing how difficult it can become or total project cost...I wanted to start cheap, figure it out, then others can learn from our progress and do it better on their own cars in the future.


ALSO

Blog is updated with Part 2! Getting closer my dudes!

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-2-the-c60-inspection-and-repair

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/uploads/7/4/0/2/74028615/published/c60-2nd-gear.jpeg?1511326584

[ACKING_QC]

YO! you that dude with the Sick autocross Yaris from Wheelwell!! damn !! your car is awesome man ! you make my silly hatchback looks weird when I see an overly tuned one like yours cheers m8 !

[ArmstrongRacing]

YO! you that dude with the Sick autocross Yaris from Wheelwell!! damn !! your car is awesome man ! you make my silly hatchback looks weird when I see an overly tuned one like yours cheers m8 !

Hey dude! Don't feel silly about you build man, in the beginning mine had a automatic trans and 90 horsepower! We all start somewhere, people at races used to laugh at my yaris, now I'm passing turbo cars. :burnrubber:

[ACKING_QC]

Hey dude! Don't feel silly about you build man, in the beginning mine had a automatic trans and 90 horsepower! We all start somewhere, people at races used to laugh at my yaris, now I'm passing turbo cars. :burnrubber:

well it came a long way lol...

budget is kind of the issue for me right now... even if I managed to find JDM smoked LED converted tail lights for a "bargain" I still am broke BUT! Finally! life stopped giving me lemons (4 years of doing so...) now I can FINALLY start building my High Compression N/A screamer I always wanted and that, without swapping the 1NZ for a 4AGE... only taking cues and ideas from Thailand Yaris tuning scene (they know how to tune 1NZ's back there I tell ya.... 250-300-400 even 500HP....LOL

I'm aiming for a balanced 200-ish... sooo we'll see in a couple of months when I will start keeping money aside :)

[Rigaud]

well it came a long way lol...

budget is kind of the issue for me right now... even if I managed to find JDM smoked LED converted tail lights for a "bargain" I still am broke BUT! Finally! life stopped giving me lemons (4 years of doing so...) now I can FINALLY start building my High Compression N/A screamer I always wanted and that, without swapping the 1NZ for a 4AGE... only taking cues and ideas from Thailand Yaris tuning scene (they know how to tune 1NZ's back there I tell ya.... 250-300-400 even 500HP....LOL

I'm aiming for a balanced 200-ish... sooo we'll see in a couple of months when I will start keeping money aside :)

500hp N/A? lol

[ArmstrongRacing]

500hp N/A? lol

That is a bit ambitious haha, The most Ive seen from a n/a 1nz was just north of 150hp.

[Rigaud]

That is a bit ambitious haha, The most Ive seen from a n/a 1nz was just north of 150hp.
Yes, and the boys in Puerto Rico are awesome at this.

[ern-diz]

Wasn't Garm upwards of 350 in his turbo 2nd gen?

[ArmstrongRacing]

Wasn't Garm upwards of 350 in his turbo 2nd gen?

yes but he had a $10,000 turbo engine setup...:eyebulge:

[ern-diz]

yes but he had a $10,000 turbo engine setup...:eyebulge:

Holy smokes; didn't know that lol.

[ArmstrongRacing]

Hey guys, part 3 is live! Almost there...:drool:
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-3-case-fitting-and-final-assembly

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/uploads/7/4/0/2/74028615/c60-pinion-shaft-od_orig.jpg

[atomic_hoji]

Pure... car... pr0n. lol

Awesome work, Tom! Glad it all pieced together for you; that's going to be a slick little unit, can't wait to see it in action. :thumbup:

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

...can't wait to see it in action....

Me too man, it's gonna be epic. I just need to buy axles and finish cleaning up the engine bay a bit. So sometime next week we should be done:headbang:

[3cyltrbo]

many questions

-I thought I read on your blog that you were gonna have to do something with the frame??? (did I imagine that?).....why would this be required if you're using your OEM tranny with the new 6spd guts inside?

-Remind me again, the difference between the 5spd and the 6spd?..... is it simply six gears that cover the same spread as the oem 5spd?

-Could I do this (go from 5spd to 6spd) and keep my final drive? ( I love my long gears for highway, but I hate the huge gap between 1st and 2nd and also between 2nd and 3rd)

-Given your experience and expertise.......do you have any appetite to offer this as a service to forum members (ie: me :thumbup: )

Cheers

Will

[ArmstrongRacing]

many questions

-I thought I read on your blog that you were gonna have to do something with the frame??? (did I imagine that?).....why would this be required if you're using your OEM tranny with the new 6spd guts inside?

-Remind me again, the difference between the 5spd and the 6spd?..... is it simply six gears that cover the same spread as the oem 5spd?

-Could I do this (go from 5spd to 6spd) and keep my final drive? ( I love my long gears for highway, but I hate the huge gap between 1st and 2nd and also between 2nd and 3rd)

-Given your experience and expertise.......do you have any appetite to offer this as a service to forum members (ie: me :thumbup: )

Cheers

Will

1-When going to any 6 speed in the yaris you have to cut 1" out of your frame to clear the larger end cap(where the extra gear is).

2-The 6 speed gearing is much closer increasing acceleration and offering a higher (attainable) top speed

3-If you change to the 6 speed you are stuck with the 6 speed 4.5 final drive because the pinion shaft design. (not a bad thing). We may be able to use the 6 speed gears on the 5 speed shafts though...have'nt tried yet.

4-I was actually thinking of starting to offer transmission services, but I'm unsure how the forum would respond to that(I got booted from ToyotaNation because I sell Amsoil).:iono:

[3cyltrbo]

1-When going to any 6 speed in the yaris you have to cut 1" out of your frame to clear the larger end cap(where the extra gear is).

2-The 6 speed gearing is much closer increasing acceleration and offering a higher (attainable) top speed

3-If you change to the 6 speed you are stuck with the 6 speed 4.5 final drive because the pinion shaft design. (not a bad thing). We may be able to use the 6 speed gears on the 5 speed shafts though...have'nt tried yet.

4-I was actually thinking of starting to offer transmission services, but I'm unsure how the forum would respond to that(I got booted from ToyotaNation because I sell Amsoil).:iono:


#1= so its mostly the original externals with a larger "end cap"?

#2= for me personally what would be ideal is a much closer 1-5, but retain a "highway" 6th gear for fuel efficiency

#3= would it be possible to play with gearsets? and take a highgear from another toyota product? .....there has been a ton of conversation on this forum about the different gears used across platforms (corolla / MR2 spyder etc....)

#4= all I can say is thats like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I understand that forum owners want the almighty dollar above all else, but in the process they drive away the very people who they hope will spend time on their forums (ie:enthusiasts). If you do start to offer a service, and subsequently booted....... I know how to get in touch

[ArmstrongRacing]

#1= so its mostly the original externals with a larger "end cap"?

#2= for me personally what would be ideal is a much closer 1-5, but retain a "highway" 6th gear for fuel efficiency

#3= would it be possible to play with gearsets? and take a highgear from another toyota product? .....there has been a ton of conversation on this forum about the different gears used across platforms (corolla / MR2 spyder etc....)

#4= all I can say is thats like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I understand that forum owners want the almighty dollar above all else, but in the process they drive away the very people who they hope will spend time on their forums (ie:enthusiasts). If you do start to offer a service, and subsequently booted....... I know how to get in touch

1-Yes

2-You should ask Trevor and Sam how they like the Scion xB 4.3 final drive, you keep 1-4 and the final drive gives you a boost in acceleration(Trevor has my built 5 speed). You can also change 5th to provide a more streetable RPM range.

3-yes, it has been done many times already. I guess we should build a spreadsheet with all of the compatible gears and shafts.

4-I agree, people get sour fast over a few dollars. I pay for all of my own hosting and never ask anyone for help. I don't try to charge insane prices for services I've already performed either, we usually come to and agreed "fair" price.

[ArmstrongRacing]

New teaser video LOL

https://youtu.be/SVkORJalhsc

[ArmstrongRacing]

Finally after 2 months of down time, we are back....with a new setup to test!

https://youtu.be/herqXw2bg-Q

[deng]

Noice!

[ern-diz]

Noice!

+1

[atomic_hoji]

+2 :biggrin:

Interested to hear how you like it on the road. I don't dislike the C50 by any means, but I have found the 1-2, and somewhat the 2-3, shift to be a bit steep vs prior cars I've had; feels kinda like my truck.. lol.

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

Ok guys here is the final blog post of the C60 project, Part 4 | The install and Axles.

http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/toyota-yaris-6-speed-swap-part-4-c60-install-axles-and-initial-tests

We are putting together a test drive video where we will discuss the pros and cons of this project....and do some pulls!

[ArmstrongRacing]

Ok guys, the video is up. Let me know what you think!

https://youtu.be/lEvpjvi1w8A

[ern-diz]

I mentioned on Wheelwell, but worth saying again - just awesome.

[tmontague]

Awesome job buddy! Looking forward to your reviews on a road course, especially with an LSD.

[ArmstrongRacing]

Thanks guys!

I'm feeling a bit dumb for not comparing the C60 gears to the C50, to see if we can swap them into a 5 speed. I do want to get a JDM C60 someday and tear that apart as well to compare parts. Someday.... Anyway I hope this information helps

[atomic_hoji]

Enjoyable video as always. Thanks for the hard work Tom! :thumbsup:

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

Enjoyable video as always. Thanks for the hard work Tom! :thumbsup:

-- Adam

Thanks man.

Now its time to work on the aero.....gotta make this thing fly somehow lol

[tmontague]

Now its time to work on the aero.....gotta make this thing fly somehow lol

Let's hope not, if you make it fly then you're doing the whole aero thing wrong...:rolleyes:

[ArmstrongRacing]

So after a week of driving this thing around on the street, and smashing on it every chance I get...

I LOVE THIS CAR!:burnrubber:

I know its still not a high horsepower street machine, but at 2000lbs this thing really moves! It feels similar to the 4.3FD equipped 5 speed but with perfect ratio splits! It was more work than the 4.3FD swap but Im so happy with it, in ANY gear it feels like you have power. I cant wait to race this thing again, and mainly go back to a track and observe the differences.

Here's the thing though: The C60 shift selector has half the weight on it as the C50, AND there is no secondary shift gate like the C50 has(a guide built into the shift selector so you cant mis-shift easily). This results in a very "open" feeling shift pattern, and you need to be direct and on-point when smashing through the gears. A sloppy shift will land you in a gear you were not expecting, so be fore-warned.

[invader166]

So...now that that's all over and done, what's next?

A turbo perhaps...? :drool:

https://m.turbokits.com/toyota/corolla/turbo_kits/turbokits.com_corolla_2zr-fe_turbo_kit/1972/

[ArmstrongRacing]

So...now that that's all over and done, what's next?

A turbo perhaps...? :drool:

https://m.turbokits.com/toyota/corolla/turbo_kits/turbokits.com_corolla_2zr-fe_turbo_kit/1972/

I like this idea.

...but I'm not ready yet. I like to test my upgrades for a extended period, like a full autox season.

Maybe next year(2019). :wink: