5w-20 Oil

[ttufrosty]

Usually I run Mobil 1 5w-30 in my Yaris (3dr LB, Manual) but for this trip I am taking right now I wanted to try 5w-20 to see what a difference it would make in mileage. Normally I get about 38-40 mpg on the 5w-30 to and from work all highway miles, no A/c, just me.

Yesterday on the first leg of the trip from Dallas to Kansas City, fullly load, 3 passengers, and A/C on all the way with the 5w-20 (Mobil 1) I averaged 39 mpg. Based on the initial part of this trip it seems the 5w-20 does improve the gas mileage. Also consider I was driving between 70 and 80 the entire way.

Take it as you will, I will update further as the trip goes on.

[Black Yaris]

Toyota TSB says 5w-20 is better for gas milage and is A-ok for you in the South.... us northerners can run 0w-20

I noticed a differance in MPG when I went to synthetic, and a little better when I went to 0w-20

[nebulight]

What about in cold or hot weather, I really don't know much of a difference in oil, but in PA the summers are HOT and the winters are COLD. I was told 5w-30 is what I should stick with, but if I can get better milage with a different oil, I'd try it out but I'd be worried about my weather conditions.

[Black Yaris]

then just stick with 5w-20 per the Toyota TSB, it is the safe way to go. 5w-20 is one of the most common viscosity oils for many modern cars

[ttufrosty]

The summers in Texas are obviously Hot, but since I am a teacher I dont do a lot of driving in the summer, so I am not too worried about the high temps. On the drive so far the temps have been in the 60's to 80's, so perfect driving weather.

[blacksan]

Just In case someone would like to read it.

[Nigal]

So would the 0w-20 be OK for Ohio summers?

[jlift]

So would the 0w-20 be OK for Ohio summers?

Yes. My take on all this, after extensive reading, is the the 0-20W FULL synthetic (NOT Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, but Amsoil) will be fine for your Yaris if you do not have harsh winters where you live (snow). I live in So. California, so I just ordered the Amsoil 0-20W FULL synthetic (it's a relatively new product and Amsoil states it can be used in your car...go to amsoil.com). The Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, are NOT full synthetic but apparently come from a variation of mineral oil. Amsoil is the way to go, I think.

[Nigal]

Thanks. I'm putting about 1,000 a week on my S I'm changing the oil about every five weeks. The price on their web site was almost $10 a quart. I think I may go broke at the rate I'm going. :(

[PetersRedYaris]

I don't think AMS is any better than Mobil 1.

[Black Yaris]

Thanks. I'm putting about 1,000 a week on my S I'm changing the oil about every five weeks. The price on their web site was almost $10 a quart. I think I may go broke at the rate I'm going. :(

I am running 0w-20 mobile 1... buy the oil from walmart, it is the cheepest place in town...

[Nigal]

I'm normally the typical lazy American who ducks into the quicklube place on lunch to get my oil change but I guess if I buy the good stuff by the case and do it myself I'll get better oil, better mpg and still save money.

How much of a jump in mpg did you notice?

[curik]

is Amsoil 0w-20 fine for me who lives at a place near the equator? Like 25-35 deg C all year round. Thanks!

[blacksan]

is Amsoil 0w-20 fine for me who lives at a place near the equator? Like 25-35 deg C all year round. Thanks!

I personally would stick with the 5W-20. The temperatures in your area warm enough that they would not warrant 0W-20 in my opinion and might not protect as well as 5W-20 under heavy loads and higher engine temperatures.

[curik]

Thanks blacksan, so 5w-20 it is. If I cannot get Amsoil is there any other brands? Like Mobil 1? It is fully synthetic right?

[hystria]

I personally would stick with the 5W-20. The temperatures in your area warm enough that they would not warrant 0W-20 in my opinion and might not protect as well as 5W-20 under heavy loads and higher engine temperatures.

it should be known, 5W-20 and 0W-20 have exactly the same properties in a warm engine. Only difference is when the engine is still cold, the 0W-20 will be a little more fluid. 5W-20 or 0W20 in very hot climate would be OK only if the engine is usually kept at low rpms.

[blacksan]

Thanks blacksan, so 5w-20 it is. If I cannot get Amsoil is there any other brands? Like Mobil 1? It is fully synthetic right?

The only full syn Mobil 1 is the extended performance. I grew up on a farm and we used the Amsoil in all our heavy equipment and I really like it!!! If you can't order it (Amsoil) I would go with the Mobil 1 extended over regular Mobil 1.

BTW, I use Hastings filters with my Amsoil as there are very high quality.

[curik]

it should be known, 5W-20 and 0W-20 have exactly the same properties in a warm engine. Only difference is when the engine is still cold, the 0W-20 will be a little more fluid. 5W-20 or 0W20 in very hot climate would be OK only if the engine is usually kept at low rpms.

Maybe that's why the Toyota Genuine Motor Oil here is 20w-50. Thats right! I am still on 20w-50!! So will it be OK to use 5w-20? I'm driving it normally with occasional redline.

[eTiMaGo]

well over in this part of the world the first number does not matter so much, as we do not get cold weather. I have 5w-50 in mine, though I am still trying to find out if we really need such thick oil or not

[curik]

Why do we need something high up like 50? My other car uses 5w-30 and it is running fine. So maybe 5w-20 is also all right?

[hystria]

second number is relative to ambiant temperature. Indonesia looks like it's quite warm overthere, isn't it ? If 40C is not an unusual temperature, then maybe the W50 is the right oil to be used. Then is the fact that you have those temps all year around, here in Canada 30-35C is quite frequent during summer time, but that lasts only 3-4 months a year. And we use either 0W20 or 5W30. Maybe one should also think in terms of number of warmer days over a year, considering one would do an oil change once or twice a year.

[curik]

Now I can see why. In my city it never reaches 40, maybe 35 at max. Using a thinner oil will benefit to fuel consumption right? So 5w-20 will be more efficient than say 5w-40?

[slvryaris]

Does the 5w-20 cost more?? I just had the oil in mine changed but I think they used 5w-30. The service thing earlier in the post said to use what is stated on your oil fill cap, but are thy saying you can also use 5W-20???

[brpnagger]

ok we are going to pick up our new hatch back this week. a few questions 1. when should i do the first oil change? 2. when i change the oil can i put in the mobil extended 15k mile syn oil? 3. What oil filter do you recommend if i am going to go 15k miles. We live in the mtns and in summer may-early sept the temp is around 80-85 at most. Wife will be using it for her job which she puts about 500 miles a week on it.

[thomasward00]

My car is at 3800 miles, i'm prob gonna wait until after my 15k mile service to switch to Mobil 1, so at 20k miles i'll switch, that will give everything plenty of time to break in.

[trini_per4mance]

hi guys, as you'll probably know already, my 07 yaris has 325,000 miles on it. and i was contemplating on switching from wal-mart super tech synthetic 5w30 oil to mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil. i usually change oil every 5000 miles, which is about every 2 weeks for me. but i would like to start using the mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil and change my oil every 15,000 miles instead. what do you guy thinks? your opinions would be greatly appreciated. thanx!

[SilverGlow]

I personally would stick with the 5W-20. The temperatures in your area warm enough that they would not warrant 0W-20 in my opinion and might not protect as well as 5W-20 under heavy loads and higher engine temperatures.

You have the same confusion (misunderstanding) that many have in regards to 0w-20 and 5w20.

The fact is, the ONLY difference is that the 0w protects better during very cold weather during start ups. As to operational oil temperatures (180f to 212f and above) the 5w and 0w both protect the same because they are both 20 weight on the high end of the viscosity range.

So at hot operational temperatures, 0w-20 and 5w-20 provide the same protection.

[1stToyota]

You have the same confusion (misunderstanding) that many have in regards to 0w-20 and 5w20.

The fact is, the ONLY difference is that the 0w protects better during very cold weather during start ups. As to operational oil temperatures (180f to 212f and above) the 5w and 0w both protect the same because they are both 20 weight on the high end of the viscosity range.

So at hot operational temperatures, 0w-20 and 5w-20 provide the same protection.

If that is so, that they offer the same protection, then why does Toyota's TSB absolutely refuse to list "0w-20" as a suitable viscosity for the Yaris engine, yet they have no problem with saying that "5w-20" IS okay for our Yaris? And before you say it's okay because Amsoil says it's okay, when Toyota says not okay, remember that Amsoil does NOT offer an API approved 0w-20...you'd have to go the XL 5w-20 or XL 5w-30 to get an API approved oil to keep from voiding warranties.

[Fenrizwolf]

hi guys, as you'll probably know already, my 07 yaris has 325,000 miles on it. and i was contemplating on switching from wal-mart super tech synthetic 5w30 oil to mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil. i usually change oil every 5000 miles, which is about every 2 weeks for me. but i would like to start using the mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil and change my oil every 15,000 miles instead. what do you guy thinks? your opinions would be greatly appreciated. thanx!

I think that oil changes should be based on usage. Since you drive so many miles so fast I think you have def. been wasting money changing oil every 5k. If I were you I would start your 15k plan and check the oil intermittently for smell and color, and perhaps even extend further if you feel comfortable.
and fyi we havent broke 17k on our 07. lol

[Reddog99]

hi guys, as you'll probably know already, my 07 yaris has 325,000 miles on it. and i was contemplating on switching from wal-mart super tech synthetic 5w30 oil to mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil. i usually change oil every 5000 miles, which is about every 2 weeks for me. but i would like to start using the mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil and change my oil every 15,000 miles instead. what do you guy thinks? your opinions would be greatly appreciated. thanx!My guess is that 15,000 would be OK. I have routinely run 10,000 on Mobil 1 in my BMW motorcycle and Ranger pickup, and subsequent oil analysis shows that the oil is still good. The best advice would be to run 10,000 mi. and get it analyzed (try Blackstone Laboratories, they're very reliable). If the 10,000 mi. check comes back good, then run 15,000 and get another lab check. That way, you're not guessing, or relying on the opinion of someone who may not know any better than you.

BTW, I grew up in Hallandale in the '60's (730 NW 1st St.) I still remember the military convoys going down the road towards the south during the Cuban missile crisis. Needless to say, housing density has increased a bit since I lived there.... :smile:

[YarisSedan]

i think royal purple is fully synthetic as well amsoil. Mobil one and some of the cheaper ones are just refined organic oils to the point where they can call it synthetic. But its not fully synthetic. Which is why amsoil oil is supose to be good for 25k miles garenteed.

[Ace]

hi guys, as you'll probably know already, my 07 yaris has 325,000 miles on it. and i was contemplating on switching from wal-mart super tech synthetic 5w30 oil to mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil. i usually change oil every 5000 miles, which is about every 2 weeks for me. but i would like to start using the mobil 1 synthetic extended performance 5w30 oil and change my oil every 15,000 miles instead. what do you guy thinks? your opinions would be greatly appreciated. thanx!

I have a Toyota (with 200k miles) that I routinely change synthetic oil at 10k interval. The problem I have is once I hit 7.5k, I’ll need to put a half of quart of oil in. So if you let it go till 15k, you might want to watch it.

[1stToyota]

i think royal purple is fully synthetic as well amsoil. Mobil one and some of the cheaper ones are just refined organic oils to the point where they can call it synthetic. But its not fully synthetic. Which is why amsoil oil is supose to be good for 25k miles garenteed.

Amsoil's API approved XL series just says: "Beyond 3,000 miles" ...it's group III and not "fully synthetic" like their HP, SS and European Formula series.

[SilverGlow]

If that is so, that they offer the same protection, then why does Toyota's TSB absolutely refuse to list "0w-20" as a suitable viscosity for the Yaris engine, yet they have no problem with saying that "5w-20" IS okay for our Yaris? And before you say it's okay because Amsoil says it's okay, when Toyota says not okay, remember that Amsoil does NOT offer an API approved 0w-20...you'd have to go the XL 5w-20 or XL 5w-30 to get an API approved oil to keep from voiding warranties.

You are very, very confused. The reason toyota does that has NOTHING to do with 0w and 5w. The reason is the differences in additive packages. For example, I would not put any 0w-20 in my Yaris, however I would put in AMSoil 0w-20 and Mobil1 0w-20, but not others.

It's about the additive packages, and not the viscosity. Now as time goes on, more 0w-20 brands will be good for the Yaris, but today not all.

[deerebilt]

Just In case someone would like to read it.

my 08 sedan has the 1NZ-FE engine i dont see that engine listed on tsb there is a nz and a 1nz-fe series unless out motor is considered a NZ series. my oil cap and om says 5w-30

[deerebilt]

i dont believe amsoil is any better than anyone else. think they get thier base and additive products from someone else. amsoil doesnt drill oil. mobil does. if amsoil oil is so great why is it so hard to get. just like other mail order products over priced junk

[PetersRedYaris]

i think royal purple is fully synthetic as well amsoil. Mobil one and some of the cheaper ones are just refined organic oils to the point where they can call it synthetic. But its not fully synthetic. Which is why amsoil oil is supose to be good for 25k miles garenteed.

Uhhh, ALL oils are organic... :rolleyes:

But yes, I agree AMS is far better, though maybe not for almost twice the money.

[Ace]

my 08 sedan has the 1NZ-FE engine i dont see that engine listed on tsb there is a nz and a 1nz-fe series unless out motor is considered a NZ series. my oil cap and om says 5w-30

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_NZ_engine

[suiller]

hi all... I have a new yaris (model 09) 1.33 dual VVTi (101cv), on this new engine can only used "genuine" toyota oil 0w20... but on next oil change I'll probably change it with a Bardahl Oil 5w30, that is, in my personal opinion, the best oil almost comparable with royal purple one

I used that oil successfully on all my previous cars (& also 4 my family) & it's noticeable a lower fuel consumption + an higher spin range (about +500rpm more), of course always dressed with ZX1 additive to protect our beloved engine :)

bye,
davide

[1stToyota]

You are very, very confused. The reason toyota does that has NOTHING to do with 0w and 5w. The reason is the differences in additive packages. For example, I would not put any 0w-20 in my Yaris, however I would put in AMSoil 0w-20 and Mobil1 0w-20, but not others.

It's about the additive packages, and not the viscosity. Now as time goes on, more 0w-20 brands will be good for the Yaris, but today not all.

Link?
Show me where Toyota says do NOT use 0w-20 because of additive packages, but use 5w-20 and 5w-30 for the Yaris (1NZ-FE) because their additive packages pown 0w-20's...all I see in Toyota's TSB is that they will allow 5w-20 but NOT 0w-20 in the Yaris motor, and there have never been little footnotes about *additive packages* as far as I can tell, plus you've ALWAYS stated that the TSB states 5w-20 is okay, so "with that being said 0w-20 is okay because it performs exactly like 5w-20" without ever mentioning certain additive packages in certain oil brands being the deciding factor.

And why would you use Amsoil 0w-20? It's not API approved...hmmmm...but the Amsoil XL 5w-20 is API approved :thanks: ...bet that's another reason why the Toyota TSB says yes to 5w-20 and no to 0w-20. Bottom line: Until the TSB says yes to 0w-20 it's wrong to use it, but keep using it year round in southern California. :rolleyes:

You must wake up in a new world every day. How many times have you claimed that brand doesn't matter, that the cheapest discount synthetic will make an engine last just as long as an expensive synthetic, like Royal Purple? I'm not the one that's confused; I use API certified oil, and the proper viscosity, you don't.

[suiller]

anyway the right additive doesn't touch original oil properties... so it's ok to use an oil additive also on a 0w20 oil, & with modern engines (dual vvti etc...) it's not un-usual to see a very "light" oil like a 5w20/30 or 0w20/30

I have a 0w20 oil on board & added the ZX1 additive without having any issues

[1stToyota]

anyway the right additive doesn't touch original oil properties... so it's ok to use an oil additive also on a 0w20 oil, & with modern engines (dual vvti etc...) it's not un-usual to see a very "light" oil like a 5w20/30 or 0w20/30

I have a 0w20 oil on board & added the ZX1 additive without having any issues

All I know is that Toyota wants API certification and lists two viscosities for the Yaris 1NZ-FE, here in the US: 5w-20 and 5w-30, period!

Using anything else is somebody using what they want, not what Toyota wants. My concerns are just for the 1NZ-FE in the US market.

[suiller]

I agree... but API certs say all & nothing... just as ISO spec... anyway in my experience also on newer engines a balanced & of course good oil (for ex a 5w30/40) can't break anything

here (italy) on extremely efficient 1NR-FE (almost identical to 1NZ-FE) many plp take out the toyota oil & put instead the bardahl one (5w30)... toyota genuine oil is just a "name" to sell "their" oil at doubled price ;)

I don't take care about warranty, I'm just waiting to pass 1000km (about 600miles?) to make that change too :)

ps: of course I'm speaking about stock engines

[1stToyota]

I agree... but API certs say all & nothing... just as ISO spec... anyway in my experience also on newer engines a balanced & of course good oil (for ex a 5w30/40) can't break anything

here (italy) on extremely efficient 1NR-FE (almost identical to 1NZ-FE) many plp take out the toyota oil & put instead the bardahl one (5w30)... toyota genuine oil is just a "name" to sell "their" oil at doubled price ;)

I don't take care about warranty, I'm just waiting to pass 1000km (about 600miles?) to make that change too :)

ps: of course I'm speaking about stock engines

A lot of people probably do care about warranties, and the best way to void a warranty here in the US would be to use a non-API approved oil, and a viscosity that Toyota says not to use in their TSB, owner's manual, service manual, etc...most people here probably don't use the Toyota genuine oil either.

[SilverGlow]

Link?
Show me where Toyota says do NOT use 0w-20 because of additive packages, but use 5w-20 and 5w-30 for the Yaris (1NZ-FE) because their additive packages pown 0w-20's...all I see in Toyota's TSB is that they will allow 5w-20 but NOT 0w-20 in the Yaris motor, and there have never been little footnotes about *additive packages* as far as I can tell, plus you've ALWAYS stated that the TSB states 5w-20 is okay, so "with that being said 0w-20 is okay because it performs exactly like 5w-20" without ever mentioning certain additive packages in certain oil brands being the deciding factor.

And why would you use Amsoil 0w-20? It's not API approved...hmmmm...but the Amsoil XL 5w-20 is API approved :thanks: ...bet that's another reason why the Toyota TSB says yes to 5w-20 and no to 0w-20. Bottom line: Until the TSB says yes to 0w-20 it's wrong to use it, but keep using it year round in southern California. :rolleyes:

You must wake up in a new world every day. How many times have you claimed that brand doesn't matter, that the cheapest discount synthetic will make an engine last just as long as an expensive synthetic, like Royal Purple? I'm not the one that's confused; I use API certified oil, and the proper viscosity, you don't.

You want a link? Go to AMSoil's web site. Go to Mobil1's website. You can run BOTH 0w-20's in your Yaris with absolute confidence. So why theirs and not others 0w-20?

ADDITIVE PACKAGE.

For example, this is why SL grade 5w-30 can be run in car X but not car Y, yet BOTH cars call for 5w-30, but not ANY 5w-30.

So if two oils are 5w-30 yet only one can be run in car X, why?

ADDITIVE PACKAGE differences.

There are cars out there that call for a particular brand of 5w-30 or 5w-20 or 0w-20 because not any brand will do even if the viscosity range is perfect....why? Additive package differences, again.

[SilverGlow]

Link?
You must wake up in a new world every day. How many times have you claimed that brand doesn't matter, that the cheapest discount synthetic will make an engine last just as long as an expensive synthetic, like Royal Purple? I'm not the one that's confused; I use API certified oil, and the proper viscosity, you don't.

I've said it many times and I will say it again: BRAND DOES NOT MATTER.

However this thread is about 0w-20 vs. 5w-20. In regard to this particular and specific issue, brand does in fact matter because not all brands provide the appropriate additive packages required by certain cars.

Now if one wants to use oils found in their manuals/TSBs (5w-20, 5w-30) in their Yaris then as long as the oil is either made by AMSoil or is API-SM certified, then BRAND DOES NOT MATTER.

For example, when I run 5w30 or 5w-20 the brand of the synthetic does not matter. But for 0w-20 the only brands I will use are Mobile1 and AMSoil. This is the EXCEPTION, and not the rule.

Hope this clarifies.

[1stToyota]

You want a link?

Don't backup now...you said Toyota will allow 5w-20 but not all 0w-20's because of an additive package issue. LOL!

Go to AMSoil's web site.

To find a non API approved listing? No.

Go to Mobil1's website.

To see them disagree with Toyota's TSB? No.

You can run BOTH 0w-20's in your Yaris with absolute confidence.

Wrong. Not listed as approved by Toyota, AMSOIL 0w-20 is not API certified.


So why theirs and not others 0w-20?

Why you but not Toyota?

ADDITIVE PACKAGE.

For example, this is why SL grade 5w-30 can be run in car X but not car Y, yet BOTH cars call for 5w-30, but not ANY 5w-30.

ANY car that calls for SL 5w-30 can run ANY brand of SL 5w-30.

So if two oils are 5w-30 yet only one can be run in car X, why?

If Toyota says 5w-20 for your Y than why do you run 0w-20 when their TSB says it's only for their X?

ADDITIVE PACKAGE differences.

There are cars out there that call for a particular brand of 5w-30 or 5w-20 or 0w-20 because not any brand will do even if the viscosity range is perfect....why? Additive package differences, again.

Right back to you saying that Toyota's TSB allows particular brands of 0w-20 because of those special non API approved additive packages...again...proof? Or just your need and not Toyota's need, again?

[1stToyota]

I've said it many times and I will say it again: BRAND DOES NOT MATTER.

However this thread is about 0w-20 vs. 5w-20. In regard to this particular and specific issue, brand does in fact matter because not all brands provide the appropriate additive packages required by certain cars.

Now if one wants to use oils found in their manuals/TSBs (5w-20, 5w-30) in their Yaris then as long as the oil is either made by AMSoil or is API-SM certified, then BRAND DOES NOT MATTER.

For example, when I run 5w30 or 5w-20 the brand of the synthetic does not matter. But for 0w-20 the only brands I will use are Mobile1 and AMSoil. This is the EXCEPTION, and not the rule.

Hope this clarifies.

It does :biggrin:

I've never seen you make viscosity distinctions until now, when I called you on it.

And they have to have the appropriate additive packages to even produce a 0w-20 viscosity, fyi.

And as in certain cars, our 1NZ-FE Yaris? Still haven't seen where Toyota lists 0w-20 for it yet.

And, again, stick to that lose/lose formula of:
1) Use an Amsoil grade that isn't API approved
2) Use a viscosity that isn't listed on Toyota's TSB :wink:

[craigq]

Here, Toyota Japan website showing that 0W20 is okay for the 1NZFE: Toyota Japan Website (http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://toyota.jp/after_service/car_care/yohin/engine_room/other/popup.html%3FkeepThis%3Dtrue%26TB_iframe%3Dtrue%26 height%3D540%26width%3D742&ei=AHLySeH9J5S-M9m95akP&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1NZFE%2B0W20%26hl%3Den)

You might have to click "refresh" if it doesn't show up the first time.

Why they didn't state 0W20 is okay for the 1NZFE in that TSB is beyond me, probably so arguments like this could be started on the Internet...

20wt is 20wt, it's going to be from 5.60-9.29 cSt, regardless if the first number is 0W or 5W.

I don't even know why I bothered posting, watching you two fight over oil viscosity is much more entertaining...

[rningonfumes]

I don't even know why I bothered posting, watching you two fight over oil viscosity is much more entertaining...

Shhhh!!! :tongue: lol

[deerebilt]

I USE TOYOTA 5W30 OIL SINCE NEW AND ITS THE SAME PRICE AS AUTO PARTS STORES MOBIL CLEAN 5000 5W30 OIL ALSO AT 21000 MI MY OVERALL AVG MPG IS 43.5. I AM CONSIDERING CHANGING TO TOYOTA 5W20 TO SEE IF I CAN GET MORE MPG AND WATCH SCANGUAGE II FOR READING CHANGES. I AM NOT SOLD ON ANYBODYS SYNTHETIC OIL AND DEFINITELY NOT EXTENDING OIL CHANGE INTERVALS. UNDER NORMAL COMBUSTION YOU ENGINE GETS DIRTY AND BY EXTENDING OIL CHANGES THAT TRASH IS RUN THRU YOU MOTOR.

[GeneralDon7]

I switched to the 5W20 Mobil 1 extended at about 15,000 and noticed a 4-6 mpg increase after the switch, and havent noticed any metal shavings, or performance issues. :biggrin:

[1stToyota]

Here, Toyota Japan website showing that 0W20 is okay for the 1NZFE: Toyota Japan Website (http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://toyota.jp/after_service/car_care/yohin/engine_room/other/popup.html%3FkeepThis%3Dtrue%26TB_iframe%3Dtrue%26 height%3D540%26width%3D742&ei=AHLySeH9J5S-M9m95akP&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1NZFE%2B0W20%26hl%3Den)

You might have to click "refresh" if it doesn't show up the first time.

Why they didn't state 0W20 is okay for the 1NZFE in that TSB is beyond me, probably so arguments like this could be started on the Internet...

20wt is 20wt, it's going to be from 5.60-9.29 cSt, regardless if the first number is 0W or 5W.

I don't even know why I bothered posting, watching you two fight over oil viscosity is much more entertaining...

If I lived in Japan, that's what I'd use. In the US we're given 2 choices by Toyota: 5w-20 and 5w-30
What the Toyota TSB and the owner's manual says is an approved viscosity for the US is what matters, but certain people just know better than Toyota when it comes to what'll work best. :wink::rolleyes:

And I guess 0w-20 and 5w-20 isn't the same, or the Toyota TSB would allow both for our 1NZ-FE, but they don't...and funny that Amsoil's 5w-20 is API certified, but their 0w-20 isn't.

[nerp]

I'd never use an oil that isn't explicitly appoved by Toyota for use. Using some oil that isn't approved would be stupid, imho. I didn't engineer this car or the engine. And I don't care how much experience I have with cars, engines and oil. Until I've been designing Yaris engines, I understand that my limited experience doesn't give my any qualification to dump whatever oil I want into the engine.

[craigq]

If I lived in Japan, that's what I'd use.

And I guess 0w-20 and 5w-20 isn't the same, or the Toyota TSB would allow both for our 1NZ-FE, but they don't...and funny that Amsoil's 5w-20 is API certified, but their 0w-20 isn't.

1. Yes 1stT, you're right and "he's" wrong. At least in your mind...

2. Do you honestly believe that 1NZFE's internals (i.e. bearing clearances etc) are different for JDM engines and engines bound for export destinations? Thus allowing 0W20 in one and unable to use that oil in another? Furthermore, the two local Toyota dealerships that I go to to get my parts are okay with putting 0W20 in a 1NZFE. I'm fairly certain if it was going to void warranties and cause engines to self-destruct they would not be advising its use it due to liability reasons...

3. API licensing costs money, companies have to pay fees to be able to put the little starburst or whatever else certification symbol on their oil bottles. The actual market for 0W20's as required by engine manufacturers in N.A. is very small. It is likely not worth the money for Amsoil to go through the API certification process for their 0W20.

You seem pretty adamant about following that TSB, about the whole 5W20 is okay but 0W20 will obliterate the 1NZFE. Go ahead and use the 5W20 and be happy. :thumbup: I hope you didn't rag on people if they used 5W20 in their 1NZFE's before that TSB or some "approved list" was released... :laugh:

[1stToyota]

1. Yes 1stT, you're right and "he's" wrong. At least in your mind...

Glad that you know that he's right for going with a non API approve Amsoil grade that is NOT listed on Toyota's TSB. :tongue:

2. Do you honestly believe that 1NZFE's internals (i.e. bearing clearances etc) are different for JDM engines and engines bound for export destinations?

Of course. Climates make a difference, or did you not know that?

Thus allowing 0W20 in one and unable to use that oil in another?

Ask Toyota's TSB for the US, okay?

Furthermore, the two local Toyota dealerships that I go to to get my parts are okay with putting 0W20 in a 1NZFE. I'm fairly certain if it was going to void warranties and cause engines to self-destruct they would not be advising its use it due to liability reasons...

It's up to them if they want to follow their TSB or not, and local...as in the "Great White North" ? :smile:

3. API licensing costs money, companies have to pay fees to be able to put the little starburst or whatever else certification symbol on their oil bottles. The actual market for 0W20's as required by engine manufacturers in N.A. is very small. It is likely not worth the money for Amsoil to go through the API certification process for their 0W20.

:bs:

They have the money to do API testing on their cheapest XL series, the whole series, why not their most expensive series? They're a big company that's been around for decades.


You seem pretty adamant about following that TSB, about the whole 5W20 is okay but 0W20 will obliterate the 1NZFE.

It's Toyota's TSB, why play like I know better than them?

Go ahead and use the 5W20 and be happy. :thumbup: I hope you didn't rag on people if they used 5W20 in their 1NZFE's before that TSB or some "approved list" was released... :laugh:

You' don't have to stick with API approved oil or a viscosity that's mentioned in the service manual and TSB, but I will. :drool:

[craigq]

If one is worried about an oil-related engine failure then by all means follow what is suggested on your OIL cap, in your manual or in a TSB from Toyota.

Oil viscosity recommendations are different according to climate, expected ambient temperature or high-speed driving. Manufacturers may outfit vehicles differently according to climate (oil coolers in warm climates, block heaters in cold climates). I seriously doubt they will change internal engine parts which require different grades of oil on a budget engine like the 1NZFE for different environments, other than possibly ECU programming for emissions related reasons due to local standards...


SilverGlow isn't right or wrong for choosing a different SAE grade of oil not listed on that TSB. It's his choice. If one is able to prove that his engine is damaged as a result of the oil's SAE viscosity grade, or lack of API certification and not an OEM parts or design related-failure then we can say his oil selection was "wrong"... with the 1NZFE this likely won't happen unless someone uses an API SA rated oil :laugh:


Yes, local as in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I guess it's the "Great White North" but with the sunshine today I should be out riding my motorcycles rather than typing at this keyboard, which have *gasp* non-JASO-approved oils in their crankcases :laugh:


Technically that TSB specifically mentions ILSAC GF-4 oils, not API SL/SM nor API starburst certification etc. 5W20, 0W20 etc are not API certifications, they are SAE oil viscosity grades. It does mention following the viscosity grade as outlined in the owner's manual (again no mention of following API certifications in the TSB itself, just ILSAC GF-4).


Found this on the BITOG site regarding API certification:
API Certification Discussion (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1072483&fpart=1)


I'll admit I may be wrong about the certification fees :tongue::


from the API.org website
<<
FEES
The EOLCS minimum royalty fee for licensure is $1,050
U.S. for API members and $1,250 U.S. for non-members.
Additionally, an annual fee of $0.0015 per gallon of
licensed motor oil after the first million gallons of
production of licensed oil will be assessed. (Please note
that the fees are subject to change.)
>>



As an aside, why would Amsoil bother certifying an oil when they know that the people purchasing the oil probably don't even care if its API certified. The extended drain interval people are already going against manufacturer recommendations anyways, which is what these higher-end oils are designed for. To meet it seems that the XL series was designed to meet the minimum requirements for most manufacturers warranties, hence they bothered to get it certified.


And here is Amsoil's take on why they have not bothered to API certify their oils other than the XL line:
Amsoil PDF File (http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/blueprints/Product_Warranties_Blueprint_11-07.pdf)

You' don't have to stick with API approved oil or a viscosity that's mentioned in the service manual and TSB, but I will

Which is your choice, and I'm not telling you that you're wrong for doing so :thumbup:

Internet oil discussions are great :wink:

[1stToyota]

If one is worried about an oil-related engine failure then by all means follow what is suggested on your OIL cap, in your manual or in a TSB from Toyota.

And if not, just use what you want.

Oil viscosity recommendations are different according to climate, expected ambient temperature or high-speed driving. Manufacturers may outfit vehicles differently according to climate (oil coolers in warm climates, block heaters in cold climates). I seriously doubt they will change internal engine parts which require different grades of oil on a budget engine like the 1NZFE for different environments, other than possibly ECU programming for emissions related reasons due to local standards...

You didn't actually think they changed internals to match viscosities with climates? My point about your Japanese 0w-20 claim was based on what you just stated; different climates may call for different grades...

Japan: 0w-20 (okay)
US: 5w-20 and 5w-30 (okay)


SilverGlow isn't right or wrong for choosing a different SAE grade of oil not listed on that TSB. It's his choice. If one is able to prove that his engine is damaged as a result of the oil's SAE viscosity grade, or lack of API certification and not an OEM parts or design related-failure then we can say his oil selection was "wrong"... with the 1NZFE this likely won't happen unless someone uses an API SA rated oil :laugh:

Yes, our TSB says no to 0w-20 for some reason, if he discovers it down in his southern California climate...ooops.


Yes, local as in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I guess it's the "Great White North" but with the sunshine today I should be out riding my motorcycles rather than typing at this keyboard, which have *gasp* non-JASO-approved oils in their crankcases :laugh:

Pretty country. It's already broken records here...hit over 90 degrees a few days ago.


Technically that TSB specifically mentions ILSAC GF-4 oils, not API SL/SM nor API starburst certification etc.

It mentions 0w-20 for lots of Toyota and Scion models, but not for the Yaris.


5W20, 0W20 etc are not API certifications, they are SAE oil viscosity grades. It does mention following the viscosity grade as outlined in the owner's manual (again no mention of following API certifications in the TSB itself, just ILSAC GF-4).

Just start by getting the viscosity right first.


Found this on the BITOG site regarding API certification:
API Certification Discussion (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1072483&fpart=1)

I'll admit I may be wrong about the certification fees :tongue::

It's simple. Some additive packages won't earn API certification because they may not meet the PPM established limits...and I didn't look at the link. I'll assume that you made a point; point taken.


As an aside, why would Amsoil bother certifying an oil when they know that the people purchasing the oil probably don't even care if its API certified.

But they do have certification, on their group III semi-synthetic XL series...

The extended drain interval people are already going against manufacturer recommendations anyways, which is what these higher-end oils are designed for. To meet it seems that the XL series was designed to meet the minimum requirements for most manufacturers warranties, hence they bothered to get it certified.

Mobil 1 offers extended, with API certification. I don't use Mobil 1.


And here is Amsoil's take on why they have not bothered to API certify their oils other than the XL line:
Amsoil PDF File (http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/blueprints/Product_Warranties_Blueprint_11-07.pdf)

Again, point taken. :wink:


Which is your choice, and I'm not telling you that you're wrong for doing so :thumbup:

Internet oil discussions are great :wink:

Thank you. I never wanted to be wrong for using what Toyota told me to use.

[craigq]

Just for kicks, 1stT what oil will you be using once your powertrain is outside of warranty coverage?

[SilverGlow]

I switched to the 5W20 Mobil 1 extended at about 15,000 and noticed a 4-6 mpg increase after the switch, and havent noticed any metal shavings, or performance issues. :biggrin:

Your MPG increase had nothing to do with the oil. There is some other reason. Using a lighter oil means just a 1% to 2% increase in MPG, and if it were more the makers of lighter oil would make the claim, but all they claim is 1% to 2% increase, if any.

[1stToyota]

Just for kicks, 1stT what oil will you be using once your powertrain is outside of warranty coverage?

I'm good for 7yrs/75k miles, but if Pennzoil Platinum (5w-30) is still working for me I see no reason to change. From what I've seen posted here and elsewhere its UOA results appear to be very good, API certified, ACEA A5/B5 (5w-20 only A1/B1) rating, cheap pricing...

[360cubes]

Synthetics can free up HP that would have been used up from trying to churn over reg petrol oil in the crankcase. I've been an Amsoil dealer for several years and have sold thousands of quarts of oils, tubes of grease, assortment of filters and accessories and never had one complaint or major issue.

I run what the manufacturer calls for in all my vehicles. 5W30 for the Durango R/T, G6 GT, and 5W20 for my Taurus and when I get my Yaris and trade in the Taurus I'll use whatever they recommend. I became a dealer with Amsoil for the reputation. They stand behind their product all the way. Even to go as far as to offer to fix or replace an engine if it was found that their oil was the cause of the problem. I've just ordered a case of 0W30 full synthetic to try out in my tow rigs and small engines (I operate a landscape business).

If Amsoil lists "Toyota" as a compatible make without singling out any certain engines then you can use it and be covered by their warranty should anything go wrong. I doubt it will. On my Dodge forum there was this huge deal one member started about not having enough zinc in today's oils, especially synthetics. He found out that there was zinc still present in these oils as Royal Purple published a new line of 'racing oil' that contained no zinc and some other metals that helps prolong the life of daily driven vehicles. This led to a lot of problems, from leaks, to engine failure. Royal purple has cleaned up their act and is better marking their products to consumers so they don't have another 'catastrophe'. Also keep in mind that they don't have the same repair/replace engine warranty that Amsoil has.

Some are anal about using the proper oil, but it's not entirely necessary unless a warranty specifies so on paper and you keep it for reference should anything happen. If these same people decide to use a summer (10W30) and winter (5W30) grade oil depending on the season, for their vehicles they're just as clueless as anything they read about classification. As a thoughtful person will easily realize that even in Texas, you can safely run a 5W30 or 5W20 grade oil without worry from the oil burning off faster, etc. If Toyota ups their 'special dealer only oil for your engine' to $25/quart would you still buy it? Didn't think so.

Again, for fuel economy, use the recommended grade, just run synthetic for the BEST in engine wear characteristics and with any luck, fuel economy may improve and you can drive further when using synthetic oils.

[1stToyota]

Yes, some people are anal about using the proper oil that the manufacturer recommends, and some are anal about using what they recommend instead.
My brother drives a Ford and is an Amsoil dealer. He used SS 0w-30, but switched to Valvoline DuraBlend 5w-20 after he asked the service manager at the dealership about non-API certified oil, would it void the warranty. They said it'd get kinda touchy should it come to that, could be a real mess and a hassle getting them to warranty the motor. On the other hand, he was told that there'd be no questions asked if he used the cheapest SM API oil that he bought off of the grocery store shelf, so he chose the no hassle approach.

[360cubes]

I can see running regular over the shelf oil if cost is an issue. As an Amsoil dealer myself, I find it better to use the product as I can get it at a discount. Generally, I'll place a large order, mostly items for other people that pick it up locally and I work out the costs so that I get all my products at no charge.

I've always taken my '99 Taurus into Ford dealer for service, however, it was out of warranty when I began using Amsoil products in it. The dealer never said anything, and one of the service advisers has been buying it from me for nearly two years and runs it in his 07 mustang V6. Last I checked, if an engine failure does occur and the oil level was found to be within specification, the dealer won't test the oil unless you give them some suspicion to do so.

For anyone interested in more 'oil info' check out this site: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

[1stToyota]

I can see running regular over the shelf oil if cost is an issue. As an Amsoil dealer myself, I find it better to use the product as I can get it at a discount. Generally, I'll place a large order, mostly items for other people that pick it up locally and I work out the costs so that I get all my products at no charge.

I've always taken my '99 Taurus into Ford dealer for service, however, it was out of warranty when I began using Amsoil products in it. The dealer never said anything, and one of the service advisers has been buying it from me for nearly two years and runs it in his 07 mustang V6. Last I checked, if an engine failure does occur and the oil level was found to be within specification, the dealer won't test the oil unless you give them some suspicion to do so.

For anyone interested in more 'oil info' check out this site: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I guess his honesty gave them enough suspicion when he told them he's an Amsoil dealer that's using Amsoil's most expensive oil (Signature Series), because price wasn't an issue, factory warranty was his concern. He pretty much just point blank asked the service advisor if they had a problem with him using the Amsoil, or was API approval a must with them? Like I said before the advisor wouldn't give him a straight answer and said it might be a hassle if there was ever an oil related issue. Why he didn't use Amsoil's XL 5w-20, I really don't know. It's API approved and his dealer cost is nearly the same price as the Durablend.

[toad]

I'm good for 7yrs/75k miles, but if Pennzoil Platinum (5w-30) is still working for me I see no reason to change. From what I've seen posted here and elsewhere its UOA results appear to be very good, API certified, ACEA A5/B5 (5w-20 only A1/B1) rating, cheap pricing...

just added pennzoil platinum (5w-30) to the wife's yaris. happy with the results so far in mine so i thought i'd spoil her's too:wink: anyways, found it CHEAP at o'reillys auto parts(3.99/quart)! haven't noticed any difference in fuel economy yet, but it DOES run quieter. at that price - what's not to like?

[1stToyota]

just added pennzoil platinum (5w-30) to the wife's yaris. happy with the results so far in mine so i thought i'd spoil her's too:wink: anyways, found it CHEAP at o'reillys auto parts(3.99/quart)! haven't noticed any difference in fuel economy yet, but it DOES run quieter. at that price - what's not to like?

:thumbup:
Yeah that's what I paid ($3.99/qt/3 cases) :)
Glad I made the switch.

[schleppy]

just added pennzoil platinum (5w-30) to the wife's yaris. happy with the results so far in mine so i thought i'd spoil her's too:wink: anyways, found it CHEAP at o'reillys auto parts(3.99/quart)! haven't noticed any difference in fuel economy yet, but it DOES run quieter. at that price - what's not to like?

A friend of mine used that in his new Mazda 3 for the first oil change. The first time it fired up it was insanely quieter. He's been very happy with it.

[deerebilt]

I Email Toyota on the the proper oil for my 2008 yaris sedan quote from Eugene Des Jardins Toyota customer experience. factory fill petro-based toyota 5w30 Toyota recommends american islac multi grade engine oil. 5w20 is not recommended for your 2008 yaris. Toyota recommends only 5w30 as outlined in manual page 329. end quote. Thats enough for I have always used genuine Toyota 5w30 since new and will continue. Engine have lasted forever on dino oil with proper maintenence. Synthetic is not worth extra cost. and your engine can not stay clean with 10000 mi oil changes..

[craigq]

I'm keeping my fingers away from the keyboard... some oil is better than no oil... okay that's it...

[keesue]

Synthetics can free up HP that would have been used up from trying to churn over reg petrol oil in the crankcase.

Caveat: This is not to disparage anyone who uses synthetics or start an argument. It is meant as a counterpoint only.

If I may respectfully clarify the quoted statement: The oil does not churn in the crankcase and nothing touches it except the oil pickup. If the crankshaft did, then the crankcase is overfilled. The oil pump picks up the oil, sends it to the filter, onto the journals to lube the crank, rod bearings and cylinder walls, up and to the valve drive train and the camshaft chains. Oil acts as a lubricant and helps cool the engine, acting as a heat exchange medium for friction reduction.

That said, the advantage Amsoil, and synthetics in general, had over so-called dyno oil, as it relates to flow, was primarily seen at the two extremes of the operating temperatures. In freezing temps, Amsoil and most synthetics flowed better, reducing start-up wear. At higher extremes, synthetics do have a distinct advantage due to stability of the molecule. Hydrocarbon based oils break down sooner than the synthetically engineered molecules in high temps; however, it must be noted that one rarely reaches these temperatures in normal driving unless towing under severe load in extremely high ambient temperatures and generating extremely high heat. Racing engines and forced induction engines benefit from synthetics for this reason. With the use of lower viscosity dyno oils; i.e., 0w-X, this gap has narrowed substantially.

With respect to cleaning ability and longer oil change intervals, synthetics used to have the advantage in the ability to suspend deposits. One of the main culprits (not the only one) to engine wear - carbon deposits from the combustion process - were held in suspension much longer. (Carbon literally acts as sandpaper). With today's extremely close tolerance engines, the primary reason they can run 0w-20w oils, as well as their super efficient combustion process, the combustion deposits take much longer to accumulate allowing extended oil drain intervals.

With respect to mpg increases, when Amsoil first came out, there were increases in mpg. Back then, engines were running higher visosity oils. The flow characteristics of Amsoil made the 'effective weight' much lower enabling the advantage. The new lower viscosity dyno oils have narrowed that margin. Tests now show that mpg gains of synthetics over dyno oils of equivalent viscosity are marginal, the reason many here don't see gains.

If one changes dyno oil at the recommended interval, the cost differential of synthetics may not be that attractive even at extended intervals. I ran Amsoil for years and swore by it; however, given that the Yaris runs a 5w-30 oil, I just use the dyno oil, change it at 5K and put that savings into beverages. :thumbup: :biggrin: Heh..

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

FYI: just read a toyota memo to all dealers stating by next year all toyota engines will be using 0W20 oil and have longer oil change intervals. can any other toyota guy on here confirm this?

[craigq]

I asked Toyota Canada about the 0W20's, they stated once the availability of the oil is in the N.A. market it's only a matter of time; the last time I checked Honda, Toyota, Eneos, Pennzoil, Quaker State, and Mobil all produced a 0W20 that seem to be API/ILSAC cert'd... There's not too many actually on shelves up here...

[Astroman]

I Email Toyota on the the proper oil for my 2008 yaris sedan quote from Eugene Des Jardins Toyota customer experience. factory fill petro-based toyota 5w30 Toyota recommends american islac multi grade engine oil. 5w20 is not recommended for your 2008 yaris. Toyota recommends only 5w30 as outlined in manual page 329. end quote. Thats enough for I have always used genuine Toyota 5w30 since new and will continue. Engine have lasted forever on dino oil with proper maintenence. Synthetic is not worth extra cost. and your engine can not stay clean with 10000 mi oil changes..

Toyota released a TSB last year stating 5w20 is OK to use in the 1NZFE engine.