Fuel Efficiency and the Yaris

[BailOut]

With today's rising gasoline prices and the growing awareness of the ecological, geopolitical and finite resource issues that come with an oil-based economy, most people are at some stage of awareness regarding a need for higher fuel efficiency. However, most folks do not have a good idea of where to start, or a solid way to sift real information from a sea of greenwashing, snake oils and disinformation campaigns.

Fuel efficiency (hereafter abbreviated as FE) has just as much to do with the way you drive your car as it does with the kind of car you drive. Fortunately, by design the Yaris can achieve high miles per gallon (MPG), so for the most part any change you make to your driving style will make a noticeable impact. Combining these techniques with things that directly affect your car's performance can yield wholly worthwhile results.

As with most things in the transportation world, when it comes to FE there are easy things to do, some things that are not so easy to do, and then some things that are harder to do. We will take a look at all 3 levels of FE efforts before we are done.

Please be aware that these posts will be a work in progress for some time to come and may change without notice. If you re-use any of the information here please link back to this thread (CCL).

Let's start with the “low hanging fruit”, or the easiest things you can do to make a difference, then move on to the higher levels.

[BailOut]

Basic FE:

1) Slow down, and never speed. The faster you travel the more the air resists your vehicle, and the more fuel your engine needs to use in order to keep moving forward at the same velocity (speed). There is a marked increase in air resistance above 55 MPH, and a drastic hit above 65 MPH.

2) Accelerate and brake slowly and steadily, avoiding jackrabbit starts and stops. No one ever got a trophy for getting to the next red light first or getting up to highway speed in the first 200m of an on-ramp, and you can't beat the timing of a stop sign. In the Yaris I try to never let my RPM get above 2,000 unless I need to merge quickly, in which case I allow for 2,200. The only time I get higher than that is on the climbing side of my mountain commute, as once you get into 6% and 7% grades it simply requires more fuel to keep moving.

3) Keep your tires inflated to at least the manufacturers recommendation, or as high as the maximum sidewall rating. This decreases rolling resistance.

4) Keep your vehicle properly tuned. A poorly-running engine will almost always burn more fuel. A failing exhaust system can create more back pressure, making the engine work harder. Etc.

5) Use the smallest, lightest vehicle for the job. In other words, don't take the Suburban to the grocery store if you have a passenger car available.

6) Get the junk out of the trunk. This goes for you as well as for the vehicle. The lighter the vehicle is the less fuel it takes to move it.

7) Run all your errands together, starting with the one furthest from your home. This will allow the engine to stay warm the whole time.

8) The shortest route isn't always the best one. Know the traffic and construction conditions.

9) When not in use remove the camper, bike rack, or any other addition that creates drag.

10) Never drive your vehicle hard before it warms up, and never idle it to warm it up. The Yaris offers a low coolant indicator light in the dash panel that let's you know when it is running in its least fuel efficient state. As for idling to warm it up, remember that you're getting exactly ZERO MPG while idling.

11) Never rev the engine. This accomplishes absolutely nothing but extra wear and tear on the engine for no reason, and more fuel burned for no reason.

12) The realities of pumping fuel. The cost of fuel is generally somewhat arbitrary but is statistically higher near the weekend, so try to fuel up in the middle of the week. It is also more expensive around recognized holidays so try to fuel up early or wait the holiday out. Like most other fluids gasoline is more dense when cold, so filling up in the coolest part of the day will net you as much as 1% more fuel for your dollar. Never fill beyond the automatic shut-off as this dumps raw emissions straight into the atmosphere. When automatic shut-off occurs rotate the pump handle 180 degrees (upside down) for a few seconds so that the remaining fuel in the nozzle goes into your tank.

13) "The Myth of Torque", or "Why you don't need 200bhp to pick the kids up and get groceries". One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard is someone making fun of a Yaris owner for a lack of torque in the vehicle. We do not live on a race track or rally course and we do not get a trophy for getting home 3 seconds earlier than our neighbor. The Yaris climbs mountains, merges onto the highway and carries a proper weight load just fine, so there is no need for more torque than the stock engine and transmission offer.

[BailOut]

Intermediate FE:

1) Never idle again, or "Never get ZERO MPG again". Not only is the warm-up idle a bad idea but so is any other kind of idling. When you come to a stop light turn off the engine. When you're waiting in the drive through turn off the engine. When you're at a construction stop turn off the engine. When you're waiting for your friend to get out of the store/restaurant/etc. turn off the engine. In past times this might not have been such a hot idea, but with today's technology and manufacturing processes it only takes about 7 seconds of idling to equate to the engine wear and tear and fuel cost of a warm start.

2) Going from "I can't drive 55" to "I never drive over 55". Many of you may be too young to remember this but not too long ago the Federal speed limit for highways in the U.S. was 55 MPH, and had been so for decades. While that may seem awfully slow to you the reality is that everyone always got where they needed to go, road trips and commutes and vacations occurred, and everyone still had plenty of time left for everything else in life. The raising of the Federal limit to 70 MPH has helped save some folks a bit of time and has helped a few late truck shipments make an on-time delivery, but these things have been accomplished at horrendous costs to fuel efficiency and emissions. As mentioned in the Basic list speeds up to 55 MPH generally share the same aerodynamic efficiency but anything above this speed takes a hit. As such limiting yourself to a maximum speed of 55 MPH is logical and easy to achieve.

3) Take advantage of DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cutoff). Please see this thread (http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4248) for a detailed discussion on DFCO.

4) Route planning based on known obstacles (stop lights, stop signs, hills, heavy traffic, etc.). Always try to select the path of least resistance. If you can get from point A to point B by avoiding a hill climb but having to go through one more traffic light you are much better off taking the traffic light route. If you live in a highly congested area try taking the access roads or parallel avenues instead of staying on the highway itself. If able try to adjust the times of day you commute to take advantage of lower traffic times.

5) Face-out parking & potential parking. Try to make sure that your first movement is always forward by parking face-out wherever possible, even if this means walking further in a parking lot. Increase the benefit of this by parking face-out on a grade so that you can roll for a ways (fuel-free movement) when it's time to leave.

6) Use monitoring tools such as a ScanGauge II. Please see this thread (http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1005) for a detailed discussion on the SG II.

7) Running tire pressures higher than the max sidewall rating. Disclaimer: There are unconfirmed, anecdotal reports of safety issues associated with this. The “perfect pressure” to run your tires at will vary from tire to tire and vehicle to vehicle but for either a Yaris or Prius running the Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires (Toyota's stock choice for mud and snow (M+S) rated tires) folks across the Net have achieved the best results between 50 and 60 PSI. I run mine at 60.

8) The realities of fuels. This could be a thread of its own but I will summarize a few finer points here. To make a very long story short, with few exceptions using top-tier (name brand) fuels ends up being cheaper due to not only increased fuel economy but also in upper cylinder health by drastically dropping “gunk” and other unwanted build-up. One reason top-tier fuels cost more is because the companies that sell them have gone to tremendous expense in R&D to find ways to achieve the Federally-mandated additives/reformulations without sacrificing the caloric content of the fuel. Off-brands have no such compunction and use the cheapest additives available at refining time without regard to caloric efficiency. I truly do not mean to endorse any oil company but in the interest of saving you time I will say that, after millions of miles of road testing on all kinds of vehicles and in all parts of the world, Shell and Chevron seem to continually come out on top for fuel efficiency and engine health, so much so that they become the best value.

9) The realities of fuel additives. First let me say that anything containing Acetone is bad and some reformulators and upper cylinder lubricants are good. Acetone may cause a temporary boost in FE but does so at tremendous expense to the non-metal components in your engine such as gaskets and hoses. Other additives may or may not help FE and/or your engine and seem to be at the whim of the cosmos, but some worth looking at are Lucas Fuel Treatment (http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=26&catid=2&loc=show) and Ethos FR (http://www.ethosfr.com/) (I haven't tried this one yet).

10) Modifying your vehicle for FE. There are so many mods that can be done for fuel efficiency that this could be another separate topic. Please see an appendix below for some ideas.

11) Switch to synthetic oils. Using synthetic crankcase and gear oils allows the engine, transmission and differential to operate with less friction. Additionally, a TSB advocating a switch to 5W-20 oil (http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5744) has been located.

11) Fuel rebates. Many credit card and gasoline merchants offer rebate/reward programs for gasoline. Without attempting to endorse any particular company I will say that, as of this writing, American Express' Blue Cash card offers the best rebate program with 5% on gasoline, grocery and pharmacy purchases and 1.25% on everything else (once an annual $6,500 qualifying limit is reached), paid annually. Shell's MasterCard offers a good rebate program with 5% back on all Shell and Jiffy Lube purchases and 1% on anything else you use the card for, paid monthly. Neither card has an annual fee nor charges any fees if you never carry a balance. Also as of this writing Chevron's card doesn't even guarantee participation in a rebate program, and Discover's program is a flat 1% with lots of attached fees.

[BailOut]

Advanced FE (Hypermiling) - For educational purposes only - attempt at your own risk:

FAS: Forced Auto Stop (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=1)

P&G: Pulse and Glide (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=5)

DWL: Driving With Load (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=16)

DWB: Driving Without Brakes (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=14)

Close-In Draft (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=41) (Allow me to quickly debunk the myth that drafting makes the front-runner use more fuel. They already burned the fuel to move the air out of the way and you are merely riding along in their turbulent wake.)

Distant Draft (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=43)

Surf Draft (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=42)

Ridge Riding (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=9)

- Grill blocks & engine blankets. A warm engine is a happy engine, and the Yaris' target temperature is 184F. Anything you can do to help maintain that temperature without causing an overheating scenario is a pure benefit. You can block the grill(s) with cardboard (paint it to match if you like), and you can also use things like sectioned water heater blankets to insulate the top and sides of the engine compartment. Please search the Net for more discourse on these things as the subject is diverse. I may post a DIY next Winter.

- Leave Jack at home. Replace your spare tire, jack, etc. with a patch kit and small, 12V air compressor, or even just a cell phone and road service membership. Also look for other ways to drop weight from the vehicle, such as seat removal.

- Advanced aerodynamics. This is yet another topic that could have its own thread, but I'll touch on the salient points here. Every vehicle has a coefficient of drag (Cd), and the lower the Cd the less drag the vehicle creates as it moves trough the air. You can change your Cd with things like body kits, lowered suspension, etc. Some folks take it to the level of creating custom add-on forms, wheel skirts, etc.

[BailOut]

FE mod ideas

Window tint (Helps you use less a/c.)

Sun shade (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Toyota-Yaris-Sunshade_W0QQitemZ150123838851QQihZ005QQcategoryZ3 3703QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (Helps you use less a/c.)

Window Deflectors (http://www.weathertech.com/store/mvproduct.aspx?ItemGroupId=4&VehId=1230&Year=2007&VehOptChoiceIds=680) (Lets you keep the windows cracked to let heat out, even in dusty or rainy weather.)

High-flow, renewable air filter (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360) (Fits both the 1.5L and 1.8L.)

Solar trickle charger (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_/104-0266338-4904739?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Sunsei+Solar+2-Watt+12-Volt+Charger&Go.x=3&Go.y=8&Go=Go) (So the alternator and engine don't have to make up for bled-off electricity.)

DIY PCV catch can (http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5294) (Keeps the gunk out of your throttle body and combustion process.)

[BailOut]

Resources:

Fuel Economy of Gasoline Vehicles (http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/fuel_economy/) (chevron.com)

"Why Don't I get the EPA Mileage?" (http://www.chicagopriusgroup.com/resources/Why-don't-I-get-the-EPA-Mileage.pdf) by Evan Fusco, MD (PDF file - chicagopriusgroup.com)

"Beating the EPA - The Why’s and how to Hypermile" (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/articles/t-beating-the-epa-the-whys-and-how-to-hypermile-1510.html) by Wayne Gerdes (cleanmpg.com)

GasSavers.org (http://www.gassavers.org)

CleanMPG.com (http://www.cleanmpg.com)

U.S. EPA's fuel economy site (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/) (fueleconomy.gov)

State Winter Oxygenated Fuel Program Requirements for Attainment or Maintenance (http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/420b05013.pdf) (PDF file - epa.gov)

[BailOut]

Additional notes & musings:

There is a lot of information here and it may seem overwhelming at first, but there are 2 important things to remember:

1) You don't have to do it all at once.
2) You don't have to do anything that you are uncomfortable with.

The more involved you get the better your FE will become, the lesser your environmental and geopolitical footprints will be, and the lesser your financial burden at the pump. Yet again I stress that all of this is totally voluntary. I encourage you to go as far as you are comfortable with and then re-evaluate.


How can I calculate my mileage?

The next time you fuel up reset your trip meter (part of the odometer). The time you fuel up after that divide how many miles are shown on your trip meter by how much fuel you filled up with, out to 3 decimal places. Don't forget to reset your trip meter before you drive off. If you do not have a trip meter you can track your miles between tanks by subtracting the odometer reading from the reading at the last fueling.

Here is an example: If I traveled 400 miles since my last fueling and I fill up with 9.822 gallons, then 400 / 9.822 = 40.725 MPG.


What kind of FE can you achieve with your Yaris?

As of this writing I am the highest MPG Yaris driver that I am aware of. As such I'll use myself as an example.

Rather than go into every little detail of what I have stacked against me from an FE perspective let me just say that I live and commute in a mountainous area, we get lots of high winds and snowfall, my Yaris has never had straight gasoline in it (my State and the surrounding States are on E10 (at a minimum) year-round), I have little choice as to my commuting hours, I have just one preferable route to work (the next available route is via another city which adds over 45 miles to the round trip), I run on M+S tires year-round, and I must let my wife drive the Yaris for errands (while she takes it easy on the car for my sake she is not a hypermiler).

With that said my best tank as of this writing is 52.538 MPG and my lifetime average for this car so far can be found in my forum signature. The signature also links to my complete Yaris mileage log, starting from the day I bought it.

My goal is to consistently get 50+ MPG.

Other Yaris drivers that are publicly logging their mileage are showing numbers like 48.201, 45.267, 43.421, 42.364, 46.645, and 42.23 MPG for their best tanks.

This shows you that anyone can beat 40 MPG in the Yaris. Yes, this means you, too!

[Black Yaris]

Hmm.... wow... what a popular thread

[eTiMaGo]

Hmm.... wow... what a popular thread

No matter what, it is an informative and educational thread that most people can learn something from. Just as daily driving can be improved by appliying certain techniques from the race track, it can also be enhanced with some of these techniques. :thumbsup:

[grampi]

I feel I can add something in regard to the tire pressure issue. I am now on my second set of tires on my '99 Corolla. This set is identical to the set I had previously. These tires are Kumho 795 Touring A/S. For the first set, I maintained the recommened pressure (this is the pressure listed on the driver's door) which is 30 PSI. These tires wore down to the wear bars at 55K miles and I averaged 35 MPG over this period (roughly 90% highway and 10% city driving). When I purchased the second set, the tire guy I purchased them from suggested I run them at 5 PSI over the recommended pressure. He said not only would my mileage improve, but so would treadwear, handling, and road noise. He was right. I now have about 50K miles on these tires and they aren't even close to being worn down to the wear bars. I've also averaged 38 MPG since I've had this set of tires under the same driving conditions. I'm very happy with these results. The only reason I wouldn'r run them at any higher pressure is that it sacrifices too much in the way of ride comfort. I noticed a difference in stiffness just going from 30 to 35 PSI. I can only imagine how rough the ride would be at the max sidewall pressure (which is 44 PSI).

Over-inflating the tires definitely works however, I would take care not to exceed the max pressure listed on the sidewall for safety reasons.

[hystria]

13) "The Myth of Torque", or "Why you don't need 200bhp to pick the kids up and get groceries". One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard is someone making fun of a Yaris owner for a lack of torque in the vehicle. We do not live on a race track or rally course and we do not get a trophy for getting home 3 seconds earlier than our neighbor. The Yaris climbs mountains, merges onto the highway and carries a proper weight load just fine, so there is no need for more torque than the stock engine and transmission offer.

Well, in fact this is where it hurts. It's the weak point of the Yaris engine, speaking in terms of fuel efficiency. This is true especially in city driving and explains why many Yaris owners noticed poor gas mileage in such driving conditions. Lack of low end torque means the car is underpowered when starting from a light, therefore one has to depress even more the gas pedal without producing much more power. Fuel consumption is proportional with the gas pedal travel. Therefore the engine takes more gas while not accelerating as needed.

Try this to better understand: while being it the 3d gear, run at 20mph and try to accelerate, one will notice that no matter how far the gas pedal is depressed - thus injecting more gas into the engine - the gas does not start moving faster. To resume it, the engine took more gas, but the car didn't travel correspondingly during this time. In other words this means poor gas mileage.

[BailOut]

hystria,

I understand what you are saying but I must point out that if you are watching conditions down the road and making proper adjustments earlier you will never find a time where you need to mash the gas pedal like that. Even when you mash the pedal in a scenario like you mentioned it doesn't necessarily mean the Yaris uses a huge gulp of fuel. Using an SG II will show you that your throttle pedal movements are only suggestions as far as the ECU is concerned. It will only put through as much gasoline as you can burn within the emissions parameters it is happy with.

This by no means indicates that you can run the Yaris hard and expect it to not drink more fuel. It's just that you will hit the maximum fuel rate for most scenarios much earlier than the throttle pedal makes you think.

For example, when climbing my commute mountain I often have the same real-time MPG and fuel rate at 30% throttle as I do at 100% throttle because the ECU was already pegging the math at 30% on the grade.

Due to this I have found that when I'm not hill climbing I rarely - and I mean only once every couple of hundred miles - use more than 20% of the throttle pedal's travel.

Additionally, 20 MPH in 3rd gear is definitely outside the Yaris' power band. If that kind of acceleration is truly needed you'll have to eat the fuel hit in 2nd gear instead. :tongue:

[Black Yaris]

Over-inflating the tires definitely works however, I would take care not to exceed the max pressure listed on the sidewall for safety reasons.

It is extreemly dangerous to run your tires at a pressure higher then the manifacture reccomends, you run a high risk of tire seperation, expecially on the highway when tires are being heated up the most

[eTiMaGo]

We've been over this before, BailOut's posted a warning as well, overinflation of tires is at your own risk, but anywhere between the manufacturer's recommendation (on the door jamb) and the tire manufacturer's limit (embossed on the side of the tire) should not cause any danger.

[grampi]

It is extreemly dangerous to run your tires at a pressure higher then the manifacture reccomends, you run a high risk of tire seperation, expecially on the highway when tires are being heated up the most

I assume you're referring to the tire manufactuer?

[Black Yaris]

I assume you're referring to the tire manufactuer?

yes

[palsan]

Does hypermiling save gas? Probably NOT!

Before you flame me let me explain ....

This past week I decided to try some of the techniques used by hypermilers to achieve their awsome FE. Even before I heard of hypermiling I was already trying to practice some of their techniques and two weeks ago I achieved the best FE to date (6.4L/100km).

What I did differently last week:
1. Slowed down in general, never above speed limit (kept to 100km/hr on highway and tried not to go above 2500 rpm).
2. Accelerate slower than usual (no revs above 1500rpm from full stop)
3. Brake slowly and steadily.
4. shift to neutral when possible (down hills, approaching red lights, and stop signs)
5. Avoided using A/C (even yesterday on way home when temp was 30c)
6. Below 40km/h until warm light goes out.
7. Looked for "face out parking" opportunities.

Observations:
1. By slowing down, accelerating slowly from stops, breaking slowly, and gliding to stops, you create much more space between you and the car ahead of you. This enrages many drivers behind you and they will hyper-rev their own vehicles to pass you. Result: hypermiler saves fuel BUT in order to pass you the other drivers USE MORE FUEL THAN YOU'VE SAVED. Therefore, unless a majority of drivers change their habits, a zero-sum game. Having said that, I will continue to do this but only when practical.

2. Avoiding the use of A/C is just not realistic. If people could do without A/C they would not purchase vehicles with this feature. I for one will try to use it only when the temp is unbearable.

3. Even something as simple as driving below 40km/h before the engine warms up is very difficult. In the morning coming out of my house drivers get visibly annoyed when I stay just below 40 - I'm not even out of my residential neighbourhood yet where the speed limit is 40! From my house the first stop is about 200m. I have observed drivers turning left, accelerating very fast to take a "short cut" just to avoid staying behind me. I then see them one or two cars ahead of me when I join the major street. Result: hypermiler saves fuel BUT in order to pass you the other drivers USE MORE FUEL THAN YOU'VE SAVED. Therefore, unless a majority of drivers change their habits, a zero-sum game.

4. Looking for "face out parking" opportunities probably cost me more fuel than was saved by not backing out of spaces. If you drive even a few metres to look for a "better" spot, you are probably using more total fuel. Better to take the closest space, go in front-first, and take advantage of your momentum.

5. I achieved 6.1L/100km -a savings of 0.3L/100km. That translates to 1.6L or $1.60 for the week! More on this at the conclusion.

Other comments on BailOut's recommendations:

Basic FE:
1) Slow down, and never speed
2) Accelerate and brake slowly and steadily
- see observation #1

3) Keep your tires inflated to at least the manufacturers recommendation, or as high as the maximum sidewall rating
- this one will actually save fuel but there is a limit. There is also a trade-off between fuel and comfort - most people will opt for comfort even if they have the discipline to check tire pressures on a regular basis.

4) Keep your vehicle properly tuned.
5) Use the smallest, lightest vehicle for the job.
6) Get the junk out of the trunk.
7) Run all your errands together,
8) The shortest route isn't always the best one.
9) When not in use remove the camper, bike rack, or any other addition that creates drag.
10) Never drive your vehicle hard before it warms up, and never idle it to warm it up.
11) Never rev the engine
- these do not affect other drivers' behaviour and will save fuel overall but require a major change in behaviour.

12) The realities of pumping fuel.
- good advice to buy fuel in the middle of the week. However, if more people did this the demand/supply equilibrium would shift and middle of the week would result in higher prices. The hypermiler can save on fuel costs but this is a zero-sum game.

13) "The Myth of Torque", or "Why you don't need 200bhp to pick the kids up and get groceries".
- absolutely true. The trade-off here is fuel savings vs. status/image. Many do not care if their high performance/heavy vehicle uses more gas - they wouldn't be caught dead driving an econobox. The reality - even for fuel economizers like myself - is that for a two car family, at least one of the cars will be a people hauling fuel hog. A family needs something like a mini van even though it will only be used for its intended purpose less than 10% of the time. The "soccer mom" will typically drive the majority of the vehicle's mileage by herself. The only way to get around this dilemma would be for people to have "econoboxes" to commute alone, and a stand alone "people hauler" - not economically possible.

Intermediate FE:
1) Never idle again, or "Never get ZERO MPG again".
- This implies turning off the engine. Problem here is that all other drivers EXPECT your car to be running. Therefore, regarless of what this may imply for the durability of your engine, it's not realistic to expect everyone to turn off their engines at stops. The split second it takes you to turn on the engine contributes to an even greater gap between vehicles leading to the scenario described in observation #1.

2) Going from "I can't drive 55" to "I never drive over 55".
- see observation #1 above

3) Take advantage of DFCO
- this only works best on manual transmissions - most cars are auto. Manual vs auto is a fuel economy vs convenience issue - convenience will always win!

4) Route planning based on known obstacles
- good advice!

5) Face-out parking & potential parking
- see observation #4

6) Use monitoring tools
- good advice here. However, a Scangauge costs about $160. Where I'm writting it would take saving about 160 litres of fuel to make up that expense. I can't see this saving you more than an additional 0.2L/100km. It would take 80,000Kms to break-even. Even though the financial cost/benefit is questionable I will probably end up getting one - we do live in a gadget econmy after all:laugh:

7) Running tire pressures higher than the max sidewall rating.
- it may be "safe" but NOT PRACTICAL! who wants to drive around on 4 bricks?

8) The realities of fuels
9) The realities of fuel additives.
- ok

10) Modifying your vehicle for FE.
- cost of modifications will probably outweigh fuel savings.

11) Switch to synthetic oils.
- I've done this and it probably works to save fuel. However, if one stays on the same change schedule, the higher cost of the oil may outweigh the fuel savings. For this to lead to actual savings one needs to go beyond the 8000km between oil changes recommended by Toyota.

11) Fuel rebates.
- no savings here since it would require people to switch from other incentives for their current credit cards. For example, for me to take advantage of the rebates given by the oil companies around here (usually less than 1% equivalent) I would have to give up the 1% grocery rebate I get from my current mastercard.

Advanced FE
FAS
- by my understanding this requires turning off the engine - while it saves fuel - IS NOT PRACTICAL!
I don't care how much fuel it saves, my engine WILL NEVER BE OFF WHILE MY CAR IS MOVING! and I'm nearly as obsessive compulsive as the typical hypermiler! No one - but a small handful of individuals - will EVER go for this one.

P&G
DWL
DWB
- by my understanding these techiniques work only for hybrids - a tiny fraction of the vehicles on the road. Current technology makes the financials of owning a hybrid a losing proposition. The higher up-front cost, and the likely higher future maintenance costs (battery replacement for example) of buying a hybrid will not be recouped by savings in fuel.


Drafting
- very dangerous for the typical unskilled driver!

- Grill blocks & engine blankets
- the electricity to run the blankets may require the use of more energy resources than the resulting fuel savings.

- Leave Jack at home.
- may be illegal is some places.

- Advanced aerodynamics
- can only be done by the manufacturer before the vehicle is produced. To do it post-production may cost more than the fuel savings.

FINAL COMMENTS:
- While the hypermilers techniques may save fuel for the INDIVIDUAL hypermiler, it is very likely that the TOTAL amount of fuel used by ALL drivers may actually be HIGHER.

- in order to use less fuel across the whole economy there must be a drastic change is driving behaviour OR a drastic change in technology where all vehicles achieve the current FE of a stock :headbang: Yaris.:headbang:

Hypermiling is not a way to save the environment - its a SPORT. As such, it may be worth pursuing if it gives the participant a sense of accomplishment and pleasure. However, beyond the common sense techniques that drivers should know about anyway (and for whatever reason do not practice), hypermiling probably does not benefit society in general, and it may actually be detrimental as it leads other drivers to become more agravated thus taking this extra tension into their daily lives.

- I'm not sure if my savings of $1.60 for the week were worth the effort. Nevertheless, in order to pursue the SPORT I will try other techniques in the future. Up next, increase the tire pressure to 40psi and grow a thicker skin so that I'm not bothered when women give me the finger for gliding to a clear red light up ahead. Don't laugh that happened last week. It appears people rather maintain speed, break hard, and stand still at the light for two minutes than come to a slower stop and wait less than 10 seconds - go figure :rolleyes:

That's the end of my rant. If you made it this far thank you for listening. :bow:

[Astroman]

That was a nice, objective post. It is only proper to look at the cons as well as the pros. Well done. :clap: Sometimes those techniques are not practical in certain situations. My route to and from work (before 8 and after 5) do not permit much of a chance to hypermile. The speed limit is 30mph, but most do 37-45mph so using DFCO on what little hills there are with that much traffic is pretty much impossible. I do shut the engine off at stoplights, but only if I'm not next for the light sequence, and usually turn the car back on about 10 sec. before my light will change so I don't have a Yukon pushing me into the intersection. Usually if I'm a couple of cars back and the light changes I have enough time to start the car back up and put it in gear before the cars in front of me have really started moving. But, say if its after 7pm, that same route leaves lots of room for using DFCO, or even shutting the engine off. I'm not worried about the legality of this because my Yaris is so quiet anyway. And as for leaving the jack at home that is perfectly legal in WA. In fact, you don't even need a windshield! But you do have to have wipers :laugh:. Anyway, great objective writeup. Well written. I will continue to do what I can to reduce the thinning of my wallet. SUVs can suck my ass.

[churp]

Palsan.....Excellant observations and opinion, we do live in the real world and we should adjust our driving to our surroundings, not make the surroundings adjust to us.

[BailOut]

palsan, you bring up some interesting observations but you and I see the world through totally different views. Most of the negatives you brought up have to do with the current attitudes and behavior of drivers. That is specifically what I am trying and hoping to correct, one person at a time, through leading by example. People will never change if they don't see another way.

As for everything to do with FE mods, the only reason I included things like that (which I was chided for by some folks at CleanMPG) is because this is a community that is heavily into modding. As such I'd rather see solar chargers than Momo steering wheels, block heaters rather than CAIs, higher tire pressure instead of rims, etc.

The hypermiling techniques you think can only be used on a hybrid can actually be used on any vehicle, but it's especially accessible with the Yaris since the car handles a FAS almost as neatly as a hybrid does.

As I mentioned up front the beauty of FE is that you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. I certainly do not expect everyone to become a hypermiler but anyone can gain modest FE improvements with simple changes to their driving style. There were several of my bullets you didn't have anything against so I encourage you to focus on them in your own efforts to achieve higher FE.

[palsan]

palsan, you bring up some interesting observations but you and I see the world through totally different views.

The hypermiling techniques you think can only be used on a hybrid can actually be used on any vehicle, but it's especially accessible with the Yaris since the car handles a FAS almost as neatly as a hybrid does.


Yes we have different views of the world, I'm a realist you are a dreamer - no offence intended. I'm just pointing out that even if you were able to change the behaviour of 10% of drivers, the aggressive tendencies in even a minority of the other 90% will negate any fuel savings achieved by the 10%. Nothing wrong with trying to educate. However, on this type of forum you are "preaching to the converted" - the average joe and jane on the road just wants to get to where they are going as quickly as possible - and that means pedal to the metal when the car ahead of them is more than 5 feet away, brakes when the gap <5 feet.:biggrin:

You mention that the yaris is capable of achieving the FAS technique. I don't understand how this is possible with an automatic tranny - please explain.

[roadrunner]

"palsan, you bring up some interesting observations but you and I see the world through totally different views. Most of the negatives you brought up have to do with the current attitudes and behavior of drivers. That is specifically what I am trying and hoping to correct, one person at a time, through leading by example. People will never change if they don't see another way."
I am with BailOut on this posting..............it will take years..........but we need to change one person at a time. My 90 day average is 46.3 mpg, with about 3% highway driving.

[BailOut]

I am the realist and you are the dreamer, palsan. I am the one that knows that we Americans simply cannot go on consuming resources - including gasoline - like we have been for the last few decades. You dream that life will just keep going on as it is.

As for the aggressiveness, we efficient folks will still win. People that behave so poorly on the road are stressing themselves right into an early grave, which means they will use much less fuel over the course of their shorter lifetime. :wink:

Regarding FASing with an AT I have no experience with it, but if it will allow for an engine start when you're in Neutral (meaning it does not insist on being in Park to start) then it will be totally doable. You'll start by putting the transmission in Neutral, then turning the key to Ignition Off, counting to 3 and then turning the key back to Ignition II. You will be in a FAS at this point. When you're ready to move under power again simply start the engine back up and put the transmission in Drive. The pressure systems in the transmission will not allow it to go into a gear that is too low for your road speed and the ECU should handle RPM matching, so it should be a no-brain event.

Yes, this puts a bit of stress on the transmission, but so does acceleration.

[roadrunner]

"I am the realist and you are the dreamer, palsan. I am the one that knows that we Americans simply cannot go on consuming resources - including gasoline - like we have been for the last few decades. You dream that life will just keep going on as it is.

As for the aggressiveness, we efficient folks will still win. People that behave so poorly on the road are stressing themselves right into an early grave, which means they will use much less fuel over the course of their shorter lifetime. "
Very well worded BailOut.........each year we consume more and more in the USA. It is depressing that most don't get it! We need to change, and use less, not more.

[churp]

[QUOTE=roadrunner;92764.......each year we consume more and more in the USA. It is depressing that most don't get it! We need to change, and use less, not more.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the above statement but hypers ( just like all extremes on the politcal left and right) need to use common sense.

In the process of achieving your goal, no matter how noble
1: if you break any laws---change the laws or don't do it.
2: if you cause others to negate your gains----you have lost site of your goal
3: if you could be considered responsible for harming persons or property---you should pay
4: be honest to yourselves and show some :respekt:

[palsan]

One other point on hypermiling:

"Hypermiler is a term coined by Wayne Gerdes to describe a driver who strives to exceed their vehicle's EPA fuel economy rating."

The EPA ratings - however flawed their methodology - are not achieved by: turning the engine off while the vehicle is moving, taking the jacks out of the trunk, coasting in neutral, drafting behind large trucks, etc.

Beating the EPA ratings - however noble - is not a fair game. Its like running a race where your opponent has to run 100m and you only run 80m, or playing a basketball game using an extra player and your opponent's basket being 20% bigger than yours.

The answer to the fuel "crisis" is NOT using vehicles in ways they were not designed to be used, making them potentially dangerous (hypermiling), BUT utilizing more efficient engines and USING THEM THE WAY THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE USED.

[BailOut]

palsan,

You seem to be fixated on some aspects of hypermiling (which I included a disclaimer on) while this thread is about fuel efficiency as a whole, from A-Z and intended for everyone from the teenage adrenaline junkies to the little old ladies with blue hair.

I certainly appreciate that hypermiling isn't for everyone but I again iterate that no one has to do anything they don't want to do, and there are many other things much lower on the FE ladder that anyone can and should participate in.

As for efficient engines, if you find a cost-effective PHEV or EV that comes with a warranty and track record like Toyota's be sure to let me know. We'll talk about this again in 2009 when it might actually be a possibility. :wink:

[Nigal]

I'm a bit perplexed. I got right at 40 mpg one tank full. Then I changed my oil to Mobil 1 0W20 and cut my driving speed by 10 mph and got 42 mpg. I inflated my tires to 44 psi (max sidewall rating) and now I'm back to 40 mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bitch about 40 mpg but I think I'm going to deflate my tires back to where they were and see what's what. I know it sounds silly to bitch about 2mpg when over the whole tank that's what?; $1.50 worth of gas? LOL!

[churp]

I'm a bit perplexed. I got right at 40 mpg one tank full. Then I changed my oil to Mobil 1 0W20 and cut my driving speed by 10 mph and got 42 mpg. I inflated my tires to 44 psi (max sidewall rating) and now I'm back to 40 mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bitch about 40 mpg but I think I'm going to deflate my tires back to where they were and see what's what. I know it sounds silly to bitch about 2mpg when over the whole tank that's what?; $1.50 worth of gas? LOL!

I'd give it a few tanks then average....so many variables are out there---wind/temp/different routes/how the tank was filled. Mine varies from 40 to 42 even when I think all things are equal. :smile:

[keesue]

I'm a bit perplexed. I got right at 40 mpg one tank full. Then I changed my oil to Mobil 1 0W20 and cut my driving speed by 10 mph and got 42 mpg. I inflated my tires to 44 psi (max sidewall rating) and now I'm back to 40 mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bitch about 40 mpg but I think I'm going to deflate my tires back to where they were and see what's what. I know it sounds silly to bitch about 2mpg when over the whole tank that's what?; $1.50 worth of gas? LOL!

Actually, its counter-intuitive that a lower pressure will result in better gas mileage. I set mine to 32psi per spec and my mileage increased. It also rides better. Hope that helps. I am going to switch to full synthetic. I have always noticed an increase in my other car(s) when I did. I think I'm going to run Royal Purple given its outstanding sheer-reducing ability.

[sherryberry]

I thought starting up your car takes more gas than it does to just sit there idling. Is that wrong?

[BailOut]

I thought starting up your car takes more gas than it does to just sit there idling. Is that wrong?
For most current I4 engines, 7 seconds of idling equates to not only the fuel used to restart, but also the wear and tear on the starter.

[sherryberry]

Thanks for clearing that up for me :)

[V8TITAN]

- [b]Leave Jack at home. Replace your spare tire, jack, etc. with a patch kit and small, 12V air compressor, or even just a cell phone and road service membership..

around here, it is illegal to drive without a spare tire...

[Pavel Olavich]

Yes we have different views of the world, I'm a realist you are a dreamer - no offence intended. I'm just pointing out that even if you were able to change the behaviour of 10% of drivers, the aggressive tendencies in even a minority of the other 90% will negate any fuel savings achieved by the 10%. Nothing wrong with trying to educate. However, on this type of forum you are "preaching to the converted" - the average joe and jane on the road just wants to get to where they are going as quickly as possible - and that means pedal to the metal when the car ahead of them is more than 5 feet away, brakes when the gap <5 feet.:biggrin:

You mention that the yaris is capable of achieving the FAS technique. I don't understand how this is possible with an automatic tranny - please explain.

You are dead wrong! BailOut's tips do work and are not a dream, as you state. This is patently and blatently wrong of you to suggest it is just a "dream". Lets talk reality, and lets be results based. If you follow half of Brian's tips you will often see a 25% or more increase in MPG, and this is NOT a dream.

We all should Hypermile for many reasons, but if one wants to be selfish, then do it to save lots of money in gas, maintenence, and wear and tear on the car, so even if one does not care about the environment, or emissions, if one hypermiles for no other reason then to save money, that alone will pay off, and the pay off over time is no small amount of money.

Hypermiling does IN FACT work, and I am one of many that has proof of this.

Change your attituded, if for no other reason then for your own selfish gain of saving $$.

It's no dream, to be sure.

And you are wrong again....Brian is not "preaching to the converted"...the fact is, most Yaris owners do not drive to save gas, and in fact most of their driving styles make their Yaris into a gas guzzler in comparision to what they could get MPG wise if they hypermiled.....my daughter drives a 2007 Yaris too, but it may as well be a V6 for the way she drives....she gets just high 20's and I get mid to high '40's for the same drive.

[morrisd]

Just filled up for the first time.

617.4 kms @ 33.403 liters = 43.8ish mpgus.

Hypermiling does work, and there's the proof. My first tank on the car and I was only using the techniques part of the time.

[Pars]

Bailout, Thanks for the tip regarding the engine cut-out, it's saving me $200/year. I use to think coasting in neutral was the proper way to save gas, but once I learned that the engine cuts fuel-flow when coasting, I'm now always in gear while coasting. :thumbsup:

[voodoo22]

Palsan raises some good points about how hypermilling can cause other drivers to waste the fuel you're saving.

I also live in Ontario; like Palsan. I drive 100 kms of the 401 highway (supposedly one of the busiest highways in North America) every day, from one side of Toronto to the other. I can understand what Palsan is saying, but I have to say that he left out another side effect of driving at the speed limit.

Quite often a series of drivers will latch onto me going 100 km/h and follow me for the length of their commute in the express. I think they do this because they feel too much pressure from the drivers behind them to speed excessively. If I caved into those same pressures and drove simply by the flow of traffic I would be going at speeds from 120-170km/h every day on my commute. Yes, that's right, 170 km/h. The people here are insane in their driving technique or lack of. 140 is almost the norm in the fast lane and less than a 2 second gap between cars. I'm sure most of these drivers are incapable of parrallel parking with the same small gap they give to the drivers in front of them.

So instead of taking the easy way out and going the flow of traffic, go the speed limit and let the people who can't deal with the pressure of slowing down speeders follow you at speed limit as well.

When I first moved to Toronto I tried driving the flow of traffic (even at those excessive speeds) in my current car. I was getting 8.6 l/100 kms. Since I gave up on that insanity, my mileage has jumped to 7.5 l/100km and on my best tank was an incredible 6.9 l/100 km on a 255 hp I6 car.

It took me a few months, but I now enjoy going 100km/h on my commute. I feel so much safer and also feel like I'm controlling the traffic around me. It's also amazing how many times I will pass the speeders who have had to stop in the fast lane because of every one cutting each other off.

One technique I employ which has greatly reduced my use of friction brakes is coasting in gear whenever I come up to where traffic is merging into the express. People here will cut you off wether you're going 90 or 150km/h so I just coast between 100-90, let everyone merge in safely and I have had virtually no close calls since employing this technique and have used my brakes almost never by merges any more.

I can't wait to get my Yaris in a couple weeks and get on this fuel mileage bandwagon. It's an auto (so the wife can drive it easier), but I'm looking forward to getting amazing gas mileage and driving a car which people expect you to be driving slower in.

Thanks for all the tips Bailout and others. I've felt that feeling in 2nd gear many times in my previous vehicles (all manual) where there is almost a shift feeling and the rides smooths out, but I never knew what that was until reading these posts.

[Pars]

Yep, the 401 is a treacherous place to be, if you're in the GTA area. It's not so bad during rush hour, when everyone is force to slow down, but during the day, when you've got congested areas with the occasional opening for the idiots, it makes for a bad formula. That's why through-out the day, more times then not, some of the lanes are blocked-up from a accident. Plus there's all the constructions, that adds to the danger, since it forces the speeders to share the lanes with the regular drivers and takes up critical shoulder space. (BTW, shoulders are very good to have...which explains all the tragedy on the 400 near hwy 89...there's no left shoulder in that particular stretch...stupid.).

Normally, I'm a advocate for speeding. I'll be one of those guys cruising in the middle lane waiting for the speeder to pass by, so they can clear the way for me and also give me a better chance to avoid the traps. But, specifically the 401 in the GTA area, the speed limits should be followed religiously (unless you need to take it up a bit to steer clear of a truck). Then there's area like 401 near Napanee, a beautiful stretch of highway, which can safely support speeds of excess of 160km/hr. But, for some unknown reason (probably something personal), this dinky no-name town in the middle of nowhere has taken it upon themselves to aggressively police this particular stretch of highway and is crashing-in big time. It makes sense to have higher speed limits for these particular stretch of highway, not only does it eliminate danger caused by these 2-bit towns who put unsafe speed traps, but it also acts as a warning to drivers to slow down when approaching a questionable area, since the higher speed limits will suddenly go back to normal. It's already being done for the rural highway but not the major highways.

Anyways, I digress, but I know Bailout is an advocate for the 88km/hr speed limit, but he probably mostly travel the country highway (which are not setup to manage high speeds) and his time is probably paid for, even if he's late (assuming he needs to work).

[hystria]

Not sure if this was discussed here in this topic...

Running with "a emptier gas tank", saves quite some weight, half a tank means 40pounds less. the car handles a little bit better and I've noticed a zipper acceleration when the tank almost get empty - only my impression ?

[Canuck]

Regarding faceout parking, wouldn't backing INTO the space to be face-out use as much gas as backing OUT of the space?

And keep in mind that in jurisdictions with only one plate, it is usually illegal to park face-out.

[Yaris Newbie]

So, here's a question from another post that got some response there but might be more suitable here. I was referred here anyway.

Regarding Driving under load.
In rolling hills, where coasting downhill is possible, but it is obvious that I will need to climb the next hill with at least some pressure on the accelerator... should I just forgo coasting down the hill and maintain constant pressure on the gas pedal the entire time (down and up the hill)?

Given these points already made:
Driving slower (to a point) increases gas mileage.
Moderate drafting (please no safety debate) increases gas mileage.

Would it be better to go 50-60 alone or to increase speed to 70 or slightly more to gain a draft off of a transfer truck (18 wheeler)?

At what speed should (the rare times I use AC) I roll up the windows and turn on the AC?

Will a cold air intake improve MPG?

Is there a difference in running the AC at a lower fan speed compared to higher temperature (more red on the circular dial) compared to turning the AC on for a while then off for a while? Or is the compressor doing the same amount of work in all three situations?

[flagmunkey]

Regarding faceout parking, wouldn't backing INTO the space to be face-out use as much gas as backing OUT of the space?

And keep in mind that in jurisdictions with only one plate, it is usually illegal to park face-out.

i think what is ment is that you go into a dual spot and stop in the opposite one that is intended to be parked in, moving or coasting forward the entire time.

[BailOut]

should I just forgo coasting down the hill and maintain constant pressure on the gas pedal the entire time (down and up the hill)?
On smaller hills, yes. On larger hills, no.

Would it be better to go 50-60 alone or to increase speed to 70 or slightly more to gain a draft off of a transfer truck (18 wheeler)?
While drafting does indeed offer decreased air resistance, it does nothing for rolling resistance. Going 50-60 alone is much better than drafting at 70. I only draft when I can find a proper vehicle going between 45 and 60 MPH.

At what speed should (the rare times I use AC) I roll up the windows and turn on the AC?
None. Windows down is always much more efficient than using the a/c. Mythbusters proved as much as well.

Will a cold air intake improve MPG?
Only if you drive like a testosterone-infested aggressive punk.

Is there a difference in running the AC at a lower fan speed compared to higher temperature (more red on the circular dial) compared to turning the AC on for a while then off for a while? Or is the compressor doing the same amount of work in all three situations?
The compressor is basically a binary unit, being either on or off. As such it doesn't matter what the fan is set on. If the a/c is on the compressor is clutched 100%.

[petesimac]

Bailout, I heard recently by the so-called experts, that one should roll their windows up when the speed of the car reaches 30 mph, as the drag reduces fuel efficiency -- have you heard this as well?

[BailOut]

I heard that, too, and a few of us on CleanMPG quickly debunked it. Using an SGII one can drive around at various speeds and watch for an MPG change with the windows up or down. You wont' find one.

Then do the same thing with the a/c on or off and watch your average MPG instantly drop by 10-15%.

We know that the windows down affects drag, but it does so at a fraction of an MPG. Between all my measuring efforts the only time I have ever noticed the drag is when I'm FAS'ing one section of my commute home. In that section I already have a lot of rolling resistance and not much of a grade to maintain my speed before the next climb, and if I have my window fully down with a strong wind catching in it I can lose an additional 2 MPH from 60 by the bottom of that 1/2 mile hill. That's not exactly earth-shattering. :wink:

This correlates with what the Mythbusters show found both in their initial testing and their re-vistiing of the myth.

[sherryberry]

I thought I saw a mythbusters episode that tried to see if you get better mileage with a/c or window down. Believe that the one w/ a/c ran out of fuel faster than the one with window down but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I've seen it.

[eTiMaGo]

hehe mythbusters rocks :smile:

[sherryberry]

hehe mythbusters rocks :smile:

i watch it all the time. Or at least I try to watch it as much as I can :smile: i like explosions

[Pars]

For those who have the scangage. Is it possible to tell how much gas the car is using up while idling with the AC running?

Since it's hot outside and I don't want to disturb the little one's sleep, I might have the car idling for over 1/2 hr on occassions, just to make sure the little princess sleep isn't disturbed. The price for disturbing a babe's sleep is too high, so I'm not worried about the fuel cost, but it'd be nice to know.

[BailOut]

Pars,

Please remember that the cost of burning fuel goes far beyond the price you pay at the pump. If you would like her to have a future free of the Arab stranglehold on oil - and the wars that come with it - we must cut back on our fuel usage harshly, and if you would like her and her own progeny to inherit a planet worth having the lessening of our usage and consumption of all resources is totally necessary.

With that said, you can use the SGII's GPH (gallons per hour) monitor to see the fuel usage at idle.

[Canuck]

I thought I saw a mythbusters episode that tried to see if you get better mileage with a/c or window down. Believe that the one w/ a/c ran out of fuel faster than the one with window down but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I've seen it.

But all it really proved was that for those vehicules (they were SUVs) ith those conditions, the windows down were more efficient than AC. I would not extrapolate to all cars. And there is a comfort thing too. windows down at 100kmh is really no fun.

[lgcharlot]

I can't wait to get my Yaris in a couple weeks and get on this fuel mileage bandwagon.

On a couple of long trips from California to BC (2000 miles round trip), I was able to average 37 mpg in my 5-speed Yaris hatchback, that's at an average speed of 70 mph (113 km/h). On a 450 mile trip last spring, I deliberately kept my speed in the 50~55 mph (80~90 km/h) range to see what kind of fuel economy the car was capable of if driven conservatively: got 45.2 mpg (astounding for a a non-hybrid car running California's E-10 gasohol blend). On "pure" gasoline (with no added ethanol, if that's even available anymore), the car might have been able to top 50 mpg.

When I was shopping for a small car last year, I considered the Prius and the Insight, and quickly came to the conclusion that, at $25,000 (with taxes and DMV fees), those hybrids are WAY too expensive and can't even come close to matching the cost-per-mile of ownership of the Yaris at $12,000 (or even the Corolla at $15,000). On the freeway, which is 90% of my driving, the Prius only gets 13% better fuel economy than my Yaris, and there's no way you would ever recover the $12,000 price difference within the typical lifespan of these cars (150,000 miles at best). Maybe I would by a hybrid if gas was $10/gallon, and getting the absolute maximum fuel economy was crucial. Too bad you can't get the European version Yaris with the diesel engine here in the US - they probably get 60 mpg.

[fenwayfanatic94]

surprised how much i know, surprises me how much more i could do. good information.

[NimbleYarisOwner]

Brian,

Can you give me more details on the solar trickle charger???

thanks allot!

[BailOut]

Hi CheapYarisOwner,

There's not much to the solar trickle charger other than the link I gave in the "FE Mods" section: Long Link (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_/104-0266338-4904739?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Sunsei+Solar+2-Watt+12-Volt+Charger&Go.x=3&Go.y=8&Go=Go)

... and that you have to drill a small hole in the firewall in order to mount it directly to the 12V battery. I just matched a drill bit to the cable's size and drilled it just to the right of the heater hose. You can't plug it into the 12V adapter inside the cabin as it puts out just enough power to initialize the entire chassis side of the ECU, which uses more juice than the panel provides, thereby creating a drain.

I also had to use a small round file on the back corner of the area of the dash that's right in front of the gauges in order to make the cord lay the right way and not be pinched.

It's not a miracle device, producing just 200mA at 12.3V in direct sunlight, but it accomplishes two things:

1) It replenishes the missing electricity from your battery that was a deficit when you parked it. I have a good climb right before I get to my office and my voltage readout usually shows 12.4V - 12.6V as I park. A full battery in the Yaris usually reads ~12.8V.

2) Once your battery is topped off it keeps it topped off, ensuring that 100% of the battery is available to you at the next start.


These things mean that you'll never have a dead battery (unless a major failure occurs) and when you start up your alternator doesn't have to engage for so long because all it's making up for is the energy used to turn the starter, rather than that plus all the juice you bled off during the down time. The less the alternator places a load on the engine the less fuel your engine needs to burn.

In real-world usage I've found that this solar trickle charger gets me back up to 12.8V in about 2 hours in good light (roughly 1/100 of a Volt every 3 minutes). On a cloudy day it can take up to 6 hours. Of the 2 parking garages I've been in things were odd because one was open to the outside but it was night when I was there, and the other was underground but very well lit, so much so that it still charged about the same as a cloudy day.

[Maypo]

Thanks, BailOut, for a fabulous amount of useful information; and other responders for adding ideas and opinions. I am going to try some of the new 'tricks' for myself.

A few comments on what I read here:

1) From BailOut's original list of hypermileage suggestions the one I am skeptical about is the "slow acceleration" gambit. Years ago, BMW did some testing to determine the optimum throttle-position and rpm shift-point for fuel efficiency. They tested all the combinations of 1/3 and 2/3 throttle-positions, with 3000 and 5000 rpm shift-points, and concluded that low rpm (3000), combined with heavy throttle (2/3) application was most efficient. Also, during the years of the famous Mobil Economy Run, it was discovered that the best methodology for fuel efficiency was full-throttle acceleration to some predetermined speed, followed by coasting. Anyway, I have not heard or read anything to the effect that BMW 's conclusion has been superseded by newer technology.

2) BailOut bemoans the ending of the 55 mph NSL (National Speed Limit), but most of us do not. While limiting the entire populace to an artificial maximum speed saves fuel, it wastes a truly non-renewal resource: time. Also -- in retrospect -- it has been shown that highways were less safe, when the speed limit was established based on politics, instead of engineering principles (not a surprise, actually).

As an aside: Back when the draconian NSL was in effect, myself and several friends conducted our own 'fuel economy vs. speed' testing, by fitting a fuel meter to the gas-line on one of our Fiat X1/9s and driving up and down I5 at varying speeds to chart a fuel-use curve. We discovered that our peak fuel economy was achieved @ 75 mph (39mpg), and the 33 mpg we recorded @ 55mph was duplicated @ 85mph. Thus, the Federal Government was costing us time and fuel.

Although technology has pretty much locked fuel efficiency to standard highway speeds, I suspect there are still vehicles whose fuel economy is little affected by 'keeping it to 60.' In fact, my previous car, a Nissan 350Z, got 33 mpg @ 60 and 30 @ 70 -- a trade-off I was happy to make.

3) Some of the comments in this thread are about modeling better driving behaviors, and I am all for that. (I have a personal program of turning my headlights off when I am stopped at a red light and facing oncoming traffic, i.e., in a left-turn lane, as a courtesy. After 6 years of this, I have been rewarded by like treatment exactly twice, so, this project won't be ending anytime soon.) However, driving slower than prevailing traffic to 'control traffic,' or feel good about saving petroleum is not the kind of behavior I would want to model, nor is it likely to have a net benefit in the moment. Minimum overall fuel is consumed when speed changes in traffic flow are minimized. At the sane time, safety is enhanced and stress is reduced. All of which is why -- as far as being socially-responsible behind the wheel goes -- I recommend behaviors that facilitate traffic flow. (Even the Defense Driving that is hammered into us falls short, in regard to efficiency.) And, while that includes al lot of the ideas and suggestions already mentioned here, it doesn't include forcing others to slow down below prevailing speed.

Happy motoring!

[Smokey159]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaris Newbie
Will a cold air intake improve MPG?

Only if you drive like a testosterone-infested aggressive punk.

LOL, horrible answer.

Before the hack, I did an extensive report on Simota's Carbon Charger... should've saved it.

But anyways, I got an increase in MPG of 1.5MPG. After doing the math, at $3 a gallon, it would take around a year and a half to pay off the investment of the intake. (this number obviously depends on how much you drive per year and the actual price of gas).

Only the "testosterone-infested aggressive punks" LOSE mileage because they want to hear the new sound the intake makes since you can only hear it when you apply more throttle.

Before someone tries to tell me I'm wrong, let me explain. Also keep in mind that I have been an engine builder for almost ten years and I am Dynojet certified to operate their Dynomometers and administer their Power Commander engine management systems.

OK, simply put, if you make an engine more efficient, you save gas. I'll preface this by saying YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR DRIVING TECHNIQUES and keep this statement true at the same time.

When you hear people say: "If you introduce more air to an engine, the ECU adds more fuel, making it less fuel efficient" you may tell them that they are HALF right. The fuel mapping DOES introduce more fuel, however this is to keep the air/fuel ratio correct (usually aroun 14:1). Now here is where they are wrong, if you introduce MORE air and MORE fuel to a motor, you make it more powerful, AND more efficient.

If a motor has more power, you don't have to press on the pedal as hard. Opening the throttle less will ALWAYS use less gas then the ECU has added to balance the ratio. As a result, you get better fuel mileage. Think about it this way, with the same amount of pedal, you go further.

Done deal, stop arguing about it. Buy an inexpensive intake and follow the following rules:

1) Reset the ECU after the install by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, then reconnect it and start the motor. DO NOT REV THE ENGINE, just let it idle for about 5 minutes and then shut it off.

2)Don't buy a high priced intake, this will only make it harder to pay off. CAI are usually higher priced than SRI, but they offer little more in terms of engine efficiency in the real world.

3)Make sure that the design of the intake does not place the Air Intake Sensor too close to the throttle body, this will actually make the engine run rich. for example: Simota's carbon charger is as close as you want to get.

4) Do not change your driving habits, you will see a reduction in fuel economy if you want to hear it. This is harder than you think, it does sound cool.

This is not a smack down post, I just want to clear this up because many people don't truly understand some of the concepts.

[BailOut]

Smokey159,

While I appreciate you taking the time to work this up I have a few issues with your findings.

My primary issue is your claim of 1.5 more MPG. You show no mileage logs, offer no data points such as the length of your testing both before and after the installation, ambient temperatures during testing, the condition of the OEM filter before you swapped it out, etc. Please quantify your results.

Secondly, you neglected to mention how intakes perform differently at varying altitudes. As you are in Kentucky are we to infer that all your testing was done near sea level? Did you test at any other altitudes?

[Smokey159]

Altitude? 1500 feet.

If you're calling me a liar, I'll give you the short log I have. I'm not as anal about keeping logs as you are I'm sure. I can tell you that only the exact same trips were performed in my before and after trips, if I had to deviate, I took my truck. The comparisons consisted of 200 miles each, with a 60-40 combination of highway and city driving respectively. Temps were anywhere between 60 and 75 degrees.

My car had less than 5000 miles on it when I did the change, so the stock air cleaner looked practically new. I still have it if you want a pic.

Does 1.5 MPG sound like a lot to you? Personally I was a little disappointed. Quantifying my results to your standards is not necessary for me to find out whether it helped my MPG. I tried to keep as many variables constant as possible while keeping it a real world scenario. I have no interest in whether or not people are skeptical to my findings because I am not here to sway anyone. The facts and physics of internal combustion engines in today's vehicles have been proven enough, it is an ancient technology.

The fact of the matter still remains no matter if my testing had flaws or not. A properly designed(*key point) intake that increases airflow will allow the engine to operate at a higher performance level(also assuming the ECU can still manage a good air/fuel ratio). This has been proven time and time again by dynomometers. However, I will say that there is a point in performance gains where it is necessary to add more fuel than normal which leads to a loss in MPG, but this scenario is WELL beyond a simple intake modification.

Again, more power leads to an overall more efficient vehicle, keeping all other things constant, including driving habits. I'm sure you've noticed how much gas can be wasted by just the smallest increase in throttle. I believe I read something you wrote about exploiting fuel mapping(which I completely believe) that falls closely with what I'm talking about. Increasing the performance of a 4 stroke engine allows you to ride in fuel mapping areas for lower throttle positions, thus saving fuel.

Bailout, I understand that you have a different opinion about these sorts of things, and I'm fine with that. I don't expect you to change your opinion just on my words, you're too set in your ways to let a post influence your beliefs(that's not meant to be an insult). However, there are people out there that will look at your views, and look at mine, and decide how they feel about it. I'm only out to share my own experince with people.

That being said, I won't add to this thread anymore, and let others create their own beliefs. I absolutely will not get into a "back and forth" with anyone.

[BailOut]

If you're calling me a liar, I'll give you the short log I have. I'm not as anal about keeping logs as you are I'm sure. I can tell you that only the exact same trips were performed in my before and after trips, if I had to deviate, I took my truck. The comparisons consisted of 200 miles each, with a 60-40 combination of highway and city driving respectively. Temps were anywhere between 60 and 75 degrees.

You're not a liar, you're just presenting results from completely inadequate testing as solid data. This is what got you into trouble the first time and why my heart sank the second that I saw your new post on a stickied thread.

In order for MPG results to be trusted we will need to see at least 3 full tanks of similar driving conditions both before and after a CAI installation, and it is prudent to also include 3 more after taking the CAI back out if time permits. Including standard MPG tracking data such as distance driven, amount of fuel filled, average daily temperatures (not guessed at but culled from weather services), etc. are also needed in order to gain a more clear picture of the testing.

Please perform this testing before continuing any further with your presentation.

[bigjimmysrock]

i think you need at least 5 tanks!:laughabove:

[voodoo22]

Got 47.5 US MPG on the last tank with multiple trips to the heart of downtown Toronto and several excruciating traffic jams. That ends the 50+ US MPG streak. I'm halfway through the current tank and while it's looking a little better, I don't believe I'll touch 50 US MPG on it either. The cold weather and snow may have put my ability to break that barrier on the shelf until next spring.

Started May 29th
Ended October 7th
Number of tanks: 11
Distance traveled 9359.71 kms 5815.85 miles
Gas used: 420.688 litres 109.37 gallons
Average FE per tank 4.49 l/100km 52.31 MPG
Actual FE for the streak 4.49 l/100km 52.31 MPG

[Mikeb Yaris]

:bow:

[BailOut]

Outstanding, Voodoo! You have definitely raised the bar, and I bet you had a blast doing it. :smile:

[marcus]

Got 47.5 US MPG on the last tank with multiple trips to the heart of downtown Toronto and several excruciating traffic jams. That ends the 50+ US MPG streak. I'm halfway through the current tank and while it's looking a little better, I don't believe I'll touch 50 US MPG on it either. The cold weather and snow may have put my ability to break that barrier on the shelf until next spring.

Started May 29th
Ended October 7th
Number of tanks: 11
Distance traveled 9359.71 kms 5815.85 miles
Gas used: 420.688 litres 109.37 gallons
Average FE per tank 4.49 l/100km 52.31 MPG
Actual FE for the streak 4.49 l/100km 52.31 MPG


still dont know how ur doin this.. i have drove 90% hwy during camping no traffics going 90km /hr no aggressive acceleration.. and the most i got on a 36liter is 685km.. whats your secret... i believe i did 44 or 45 m/gal

[romeroalfred]

Hey there guys and gals just wanted to ask if any of ya'll place the automatic yaris on neutral when ya come to stops to allow the car to coast. I usually only drive in the city og Chicago and I wager I average 28 maybe 29 mpg. I would like to hear what ya think?
Alfred

[Mikeb Yaris]

Hey there guys and gals just wanted to ask if any of ya'll place the automatic yaris on neutral when ya come to stops to allow the car to coast. I usually only drive in the city og Chicago and I wager I average 28 maybe 29 mpg. I would like to hear what ya think?
Alfred

Coasting in neutral to a stop is not as efficient as simply letting the engine brake the car. See the sticky on DFCO. Simply put, the computer cuts fuel flow entirely down to about 1100 rpms, using no fuel at all. Coasting in neutral puts the car in idle and continues to consume fuel.

I usually use this feature and take it one step further by watching the tach and when it approaches 1100 rpm I click the transmission out of D and into 3 to keep the rpm's in the range where fuel is not burned. Then, when at the light, I pop it up into neutral so as to idle without a load on the engine. I use this same technique when making a right turn when I have a green light or traffic is clear for a rolling stop - just remember to pop the tranny from 3 back up into D otherwise you'll wind up revving too high when you get back up to speed. The gated shifter makes these maneuvers particularly easy IMO. When I first bought my car, the gated shifter seemed like a silly Euro gimmick, but I'm absolutely sold on it now!

[voodoo22]

Outstanding, Voodoo! You have definitely raised the bar, and I bet you had a blast doing it. :smile:

Thanks BailOut. Yeah, it was fun to put yours, and cleanmpgs gospel along with my own theories into practice. I'm looking forward to next year to see if I can lengthen the streak. All we need is one person with similar discipline, driving conditions and a MT and my numbers will not be the bar anymore.

[voodoo22]

still dont know how ur doin this.. i have drove 90% hwy during camping no traffics going 90km /hr no aggressive acceleration.. and the most i got on a 36liter is 685km.. whats your secret... i believe i did 44 or 45 m/gal

I don't feel I am doing anything special and you have a MT? You should be able to beat me in my mind. I almost always get over 700km on 36litres even 800km some times.:iono:

[voodoo22]

A lot of whacky factors contributed to me getting my best tank of gas yet

Against:

cold morning weather
winter tires on

For:

only 2 short trips, the rest of the tank was all commute or highway driving on a shortish weekend trip which spanned just over 300 kms.
unusual blast of warm afternoon weather
no traffic jams
Oil change halfway through the tank where I got a new air filter

Somehow this combination equals

882.8 kms using 37.916 litres
4.29 l/100km
54.75mpg

I don't think I will be easily beat this mark. That shows how much of a difference those little trips make as in much better weather with all season tires, my previous best was 53.7mpg.

[BailOut]

Well done, voodoo! That's a new single tank MPG record! :clap:

[marcus]

A lot of whacky factors contributed to me getting my best tank of gas yet

Against:

cold morning weather
winter tires on

For:

only 2 short trips, the rest of the tank was all commute or highway driving on a shortish weekend trip which spanned just over 300 kms.
unusual blast of warm afternoon weather
no traffic jams
Oil change halfway through the tank where I got a new air filter

Somehow this combination equals

882.8 kms using 37.916 litres
4.29 l/100km
54.75mpg

I don't think I will be easily beat this mark. That shows how much of a difference those little trips make as in much better weather with all season tires, my previous best was 53.7mpg.

the most i do on 37liters is 600km if im lucky...

[metalshark]

Hate to ask again but don't they sell imperial gallons in Canada?

[Jister]

Very nice thread,
Yesterday was my first driving the yaris for longer distance - about 500km (~300 miles)
fuel consumption for the first 250km (150 miles) was - 9.5 l/100km (24.7 mpg)
for speeds between 120 - 140 kmph (75-87 mph) plus one time testing top speed - to 200 kmph (125 mph)

for the other 250 km (150 miles) my foot was very light :) just trying to keep constant speed - FC was 7.6 L/100km (31mpg) for speed between 100 -120 kmph (62 -75 mph)

the test was made on the highway with 2-3 stops for a rest
there was 3 people in the car all the time
the Car is yaris TS 2008 - 1.8L dual VVT-i

my next target is to try some road with maximum speed of 90 kmph (~56mph) and using DFCO - If I manage to make 5.9L/100 km (40mpg) with this engine - WOW! :)
Of course it cannot be compared to my motorcycle FC :) with full throtle open every time that is possible and speeds around 150 - 180+ kmph (93 - 112+ mph) FC is no more than 6.5 - 7 L/100km (36 - 33 mpg) it's the ultimate green peace machine :)

[voodoo22]

Hate to ask again but don't they sell imperial gallons in Canada?

The gas stations sell in litres, the car companies advertise in IMP MPG, because they can create the illusion of better numbers, just like how they sell meat here per kg, but advertise prices based on lbs.

My last tank would be 65.79 IMP MPG.

[voodoo22]

We managed to avoid almost any short trips again this tank and even though I got stuck in a hideous accident traffic jam one day which added 1 hour to my commute, had freezing rain, snow, strong winds and most mornings/many afternoons below 0 celsius, I still managed to eek out over 51 US MPG on these Nokians. Could have done better, but with gas prices getting cheaper people are driving exceedingly fast again and I was a lot closer to or on the 90 km/h mark than when gas was 1.40 a litre.

I am very surprised I can get over 50 under these conditions, but I wonder what I could do in the summer if I cut out the shorter trips then? Seems for me it's worth about 2-4 mpg more on a tank.

[mchllp925]

I now have 7,000 kms on my 08 Yaris and I am still only getting 10 km per litre or about 22 mpg. This is half of what Toyota has rated for this car.
My dealership says I should get better mileage when I have 15, 000kms.
Does this sound right?
Love the car but I expected better then this for mileage.:iono:
P.S. this is city driving

[BailOut]

Hello Darrin,

It is likely your driving style that is hurting your mileage. Please read through the first few posts in this thread and then try adjusting some of your habits accordingly. Let us know if no MPG improvement occurs.

[mchllp925]

Thanks! I read your earlier posts and will definitely impliment many of those points. Up here in Winnipeg our winters are harsh ( 2-3 months of -20 to -40 celsuis temps) so I will need to idle for at least 30 secs to ensure oil movement to the heads before moving.
Taking out the spare will help save gas? I will try that ( only thing in there)I was not aware of the DFCO so I will be looking for that.

So I will respond later with hopefully a better mpg.
Thank you again for the tips!
Darrin:thumbsup::bow:

[mchllp925]

Hi, me again, Just went to get the morning paper and I tried to keep the acceleration 2,000 rpm or lower. WOW I really am a lead foot. It took a little concentration to do that, usually got to the speed limit as quick as I could.
Ho boy can I see the fuel savings.
Darrin
:evil::burnrubber::eek:

[voodoo22]

Hi, me again, Just went to get the morning paper and I tried to keep the acceleration 2,000 rpm or lower. WOW I really am a lead foot. It took a little concentration to do that, usually got to the speed limit as quick as I could.
Ho boy can I see the fuel savings.
Darrin
:evil::burnrubber::eek:

Hi Darrin,

I was born and lived in Winnipeg for quite a few years. I would think your biggest issues for getting great FE there (after you become more disciplined in your driving style) will be:

1) short trips - I've read in colder weather it can take 20kms for the car to reach optimal operating temperature and I would guess there's a good chance most of your trips will be less that. Combat this by walking or taking transit whenever possible, combining your short trips together so the engine doesn't completely cool down between trips, using your heater block and a grill block*.

2) stop & go - I always find Winnipeg to have far too may stop signs & lights. Portage near main? There's a red light every intersection! Accelerate as slowly as possible from a dead stop and get off the gas and coast asap when approaching a red light. Also, plan your routes to avoid lights. I used to drive through the zoo and on Wellington (even though it was out of my way a little), because of the lack of lights or stop signs and the nice curves in the road.

3) weather - the winter months are going to shave a lot off your mpg. Maybe 10% or more when it gets to -30 celsius every day in February! Use your block heater and combine short trips.

4) road conditions - roads that aren't plowed in the winter and poorly drained roads which easily flood in the summer are going to be your own worst enemy. Ride it other peoples tracks and try to stay on the dry parts of the road.

Of course, these are just some tips (I don't feel like typing more:tongue:). When the speed limit is 60 or less, there's no reason why you can't keep your rpms under 2200 100% of the time. Inflate your tires to max sidewall, and I can't stress enough to go as lightly on the gas pedal as possible.

Unless all your driving is over very short distances (under 10km) and you have no choice but to drive in horrible stop and go traffic, there is no reason why you should be able to attain over 35 US MPG 100% of the time. Once you become experienced and more disciplined you should be able to consistently break 40 US MPG in the summer.

Check out cleanmpg for a more thorough guide on how to consistently achieve great FE in your conditions. There's no trick to it, just hard work and discipline.

*I wouldn't recommend a grill block unless you have something for measuring the engine temperature to be safe.

[mchllp925]

All I drive is less then 10 kms. I live out in Transcona and drive to Palliser on Kernaghan. I have definitely found my driving habits are bad. So far in 1 day I have mastered taking off slowly from a stop and not going over 2,000 rpm.
I am still concentrating on coasting to stops. 26 years of bad driving habits wont change overnight, but I'm giving my best. LOL
At least I can't fault my Yaris.:biggrin:

[voodoo22]

All I drive is less then 10 kms. I live out in Transcona and drive to Palliser on Kernaghan. I have definitely found my driving habits are bad. So far in 1 day I have mastered taking off slowly from a stop and not going over 2,000 rpm.
I am still concentrating on coasting to stops. 26 years of bad driving habits wont change overnight, but I'm giving my best. LOL
At least I can't fault my Yaris.:biggrin:

It took me 3 years to get to where I am now and that was after about 16 years of driving much less disciplined.

I'm interested to see what sort of MPG you're going to be able to get in those conditions as they are definitely close to the worst you can have for FE, but at least you don't have to drive through the Mountains like Bailout. At least Manitoba is flat, flat, flat:biggrin:

Keep in mind, no matter what you get now, you will see much higher numbers in the summer, so if you can stick with it and hone your skills (like it sounds you are), you're really going to reap the benefits during that one warm week in July:wink:

[orheen]

For the fuel consumtion of yaris 1.0 your speed must be at 65 km/h when only driver in the car. When you 5 people your speed must be 100 km/h

yaris 1.3 best fuel comsumption speed 78 km/h

yaris 1.4 d-4d manuel 78 km/h

yaris 1.4 d-4d multimode 68 km/h

I will put the diagrams here that show speed - strenght. And fuel consumptions.

[TT75]

Hi all,

I regularly collect the fuel consumption of my Yaris. In the picture you can see the collected data. I hope it will give you an idea about Yaris's fuel consumption.
Note:
At each filling of fuel tank, it is completely filled with fuel until the tank is almost overflow.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5771/fuelto2.jpg

[marcus]

wow......great lookin graph.. good job..atleast ur stats are more realistic..very close to mine...i just dont get how people getting 800km on a 37 liters...i think ill get bored hypermilling the whole time..

your dec 11th 2008 was a little weird seems not possible unless you kept ur engine running in neutral for a very long time.. plus it shows hwy.. you going 180km/hr the whole time??

[TT75]

wow......great lookin graph.. good job..atleast ur stats are more realistic..very close to mine...i just dont get how people getting 800km on a 37 liters...i think ill get bored hypermilling the whole time..

your dec 11th 2008 was a little weird seems not possible unless you kept ur engine running in neutral for a very long time.. plus it shows hwy.. you going 180km/hr the whole time??

Thanks for your comments. I think it may be possible to run 800 km with 37 liters (37/8=4.6 lt/100km) if the car is Yaris D-4D (Diesel engine) and if it is going on highway. Beacuse, D-4D has a theoretical value of 4.5 lt/100km on highway. However, it is nearly impossible to get 4.6 lt/100km with 1.3 VVTi engine (gasoline).

The record on Dec 11th 2008 is for a long trip on highway. You are right that my speed was around 150-180 km/h for whole the trip. Actually, board computer says it is 7.9, but the calculation says it is 8.1 which is even higher :).

[knowmercy]

You know, this article is an absolutely great resource! I'd like to offer some, hopefully insightful information to it. Some of these suggestions do make your car use less gasoline, however they can substantially wear on other parts of the vehicle. For instance, shifting at 2k rpms will almost certainly lug the motor and the risk of detonation is considerably higher at rpms that low. The second thing about that is you actually burn less fuel depending on the engine load at the time. So shifting at 2500 or 3k under light load burns about the same amount of fuel as shifting at 2k under moderate load or heavy load. You press on the gas harder, more air comes in and the engine puts more fuel in there. Also, turning off the engine at lights is horrible for it. Every time you restart the engine it takes a short period of time to rebuild a "safe" amount of oil pressure in the engine. This is not achieved if you start the engine and drive off. Not to mention the wear on the starter, relays, and fuel pump. Not trying to be a downer on any of the resources that have been made available. Making a car use less fuel doesn't equate into the best health for the car. Also, always running your car at low rpms actually creates a TON more carbon build up inside the engine. I hope this is helpful to folks who are trying to not only save fuel, but keep their car running for a long time. :)

[BailOut]

Welcome to the forum, knowmercy. :smile: I know you meant well with your post and I appreciate that, but I disagree with most of what you presented.

For instance, shifting at 2k rpms will almost certainly lug the motor and the risk of detonation is considerably higher at rpms that low.
The ECU adjusts for this by retarding the ignition timing by quite a bit. I have never heard any audible indicators of pre-detonation.

The second thing about that is you actually burn less fuel depending on the engine load at the time. So shifting at 2500 or 3k under light load burns about the same amount of fuel as shifting at 2k under moderate load or heavy load. You press on the gas harder, more air comes in and the engine puts more fuel in there.
The fuel/air map in modern engines is anything but linear, and using a simple tool like a ScanGauge shows that what you say here is just not the case. The loads do not always occur where you think they do.

Also, turning off the engine at lights is horrible for it. Every time you restart the engine it takes a short period of time to rebuild a "safe" amount of oil pressure in the engine. This is not achieved if you start the engine and drive off.
While it is easy to believe statements like this they simply are not true. Oil pressure has nothing at all to do with the current coverage of oil on any part of the engine. Pressure only lifts oil from the pan to the top of the block where it begins a gravity-fed trip back to the pan. Oil does not magically disappear from all internals the second you turn off the ignition.

Not to mention the wear on the starter, relays, and fuel pump.
As is mentioned in the first posts in this thread, the break even time for idling versus all wear and tear on a modern vehicle is just 7 seconds. If you can't wrap your head around that number then allow me to show you a real world example:

Even with the carpoolers, equipment, snow, elevation and climbs I deal with I still average about 46 MPG. I think we can all agree that the median MPG for all Yaris owners is 32 MPG. I drive roughly 17,000 miles per year. At 46 MPG I use 370 gallons of fuel. Someone at 32 MPG uses 531 gallons to go the same distance. With fuel at $2.50/gallon I will spend $925 on fuel for the year while the 32 MPG-er will spend $1,328. This means I save $403 per year in fuel costs.

To put that into perspective a starter replacement costs about $180 and comes with a lifetime warranty (I am at 37k miles and still on the OEM starter despite using it more than a dozen times per day). A replacement fuel pump costs about the same (I am still on the OEM). Relays are all less than $20 (I am still on the OEM).

In other words, even if I had to replace one of those items every year I would still come out way ahead.

Also, always running your car at low rpms actually creates a TON more carbon build up inside the engine.
This is inaccurate. Carbon buildup occurs due to incomplete combustion and exhaust processes. This condition is rare in the Yaris due to the tight control the ECU exerts, and from posts in the tuner forums I would say that it is far more likely to occur at high RPM than low. It's not like I have torn down my engine but I see no signs of carbon or sludge anywhere that is easily accessible (none under the oil cap area, nothing in the throttle body, no fouled O2 sensors, etc.).


Again, I know you meant well, but spreading disinformation helps no one. In the future please be sure to research any information you have before sharing it, and never, ever be afraid to perform your own research. :smile:

[marcus]

Thanks for your comments. I think it may be possible to run 800 km with 37 liters (37/8=4.6 lt/100km) if the car is Yaris D-4D (Diesel engine) and if it is going on highway. Beacuse, D-4D has a theoretical value of 4.5 lt/100km on highway. However, it is nearly impossible to get 4.6 lt/100km with 1.3 VVTi engine (gasoline).

The record on Dec 11th 2008 is for a long trip on highway. You are right that my speed was around 150-180 km/h for whole the trip. Actually, board computer says it is 7.9, but the calculation says it is 8.1 which is even higher :).


i understand d-4d engine but that mpg is on 1.5 liter ..its someone in canada and we dont get 1.3 or d-4d engine in here so go figure...i dont get it..:iono:

[BailOut]

i understand d-4d engine but that mpg is on 1.5 liter ..its someone in canada and we dont get 1.3 or d-4d engine in here so go figure...i dont get it..:iono:

marcus,

That is 497 miles on 9.774 gallons for 50.85 MPG. While it is certainly impressive it by far not the only 50+ MPG tank that Yaris owners with the 1.5L have achieved. I alone have 16 50+ tanks - some even after gaining carpoolers and having the crappier route that comes with them - as does voodoo22, and he even has the auto transmission!

As has been explained time and again, it all comes down to self discipline and attention to detail. If you want it it is yours for the taking. :smile:

[Woody_Woodchuck]

I also can see 50+ mpg US with the 1.5L gas Yaris. Mine just made its first “break-in jump” at 7,000miles and is getting about 2mpg better mileage with no driving adjustments. I look forward to spring/summer when I can hopefully join the 50+ club. Best winter tank so far was 47.77 mpg US for 281 miles driven.

I think terrain has as much to do with achievable MPG as driver ability or techniques. Someone with a flat or low rolling drive will get better mileage than someone in mountains or smaller steep hills. Also driving speed, I have had some fantastic mpg segments going 45 mph but can not do it regularly due to traffic. And then comes the driver. Getting over 45 mpg (at least for me) takes some work and dedication.

EDIT
The actual increase I have is:

First 19 tanks average 43.73 mpg US
Last 4 tanks average 46.47 mpg US
A 2.74 mpg increase.

The previous 4 tank average (before the sudden increase) was 44.79 mpg which gives a 1.68 mpg increase.

[TT75]

it is really interesting to have 50+ mpg with 1.5 L Yaris. Is it running with LPG? :)
I guess your roads are always flat, they are in good condition with less friction. Also i think you dont have any hills. You must also be very patient in hypermilling :)

My Yaris is 1.3 VVTi gasoline engine. Manufacturer's specification for FE is 5.3 lt/100km which is minimum value. If am not wrong it corresponds to 48 MPG. What is the MPG value of the manufacturer for 1.5 L Yaris?

[Woody_Woodchuck]

For my 2008 LB w/5-speed: 29 mpg US city, 36 mpg US highway or a combined average of 32 mpg US.

I do have hills which is why I mentioned it. Not mountains, small hills. Maybe ¼ mile to 1 mile between peaks and only one hundred or two hundred feet of elevation. Lots of gaining momentum on the down slopes and losing it on the uphill sections. If it was flat here I could see getting mid 50’s for MPG on the highway.

And yes, I do work hard at trying to get that kind of mileage out of my Yaris. No tailgating trucks or turning the engine off (except at long lights) just driving with a light pedal and at or under the speed limit. I’m still learning and hope to do better as I progress.

I can also see where folks are getting in the low 30’s for mpg. They are driving for fun, I am driving for economy.

[daf62757]

Just curious....when some of you get +50 MPG in your 1.5 Yaris, do you do anything special? What is your speed? Oil? Air Filter? Spark plugs? Tire pressure?

[BailOut]

it is really interesting to have 50+ mpg with 1.5 L Yaris. Is it running with LPG? :)
I guess your roads are always flat, they are in good condition with less friction. Also i think you dont have any hills. You must also be very patient in hypermilling :)

I climb 4,500 feet (1500m) of elevation 5-7 days per week in an area that sees 300-400 inches (750-1000cm) of snow each year. That's not what I would call flat, and while the roads themselves are in good shape that all goes away as soon as the plows start running during snow storms, and each summer one alternating half of the road must be resurfaced. :wink:

Yes, hypermiling does take patience and attention to detail, but that's what makes it fun. :smile: Each tank of fuel is a personal challenge and an opportunity to best yourself while lessening your oil usage and saving some money at the same time.



Just curious....when some of you get +50 MPG in your 1.5 Yaris, do you do anything special? What is your speed? Oil? Air Filter? Spark plugs? Tire pressure?

Every one of us that breaches the 50 MPG barrier uses several hypermiling techniques. You can read all about them in the first few posts of this thread and select some things that are relevant to your driving circumstances to experiment with.

Out of the "mods" you listed the only two that matter much are your speed and tire pressure. Changing to synthetic oils will gain a small amount of MPG, as will ensuring that the air intake can breathe and that your spark plugs aren't fouled, but those gains are small.

As for speed I never drive over 55 MPH (sometimes 60 MPH for short distances if I'm in a tight spot) unless I don't have to use fuel to do it and I run my tires at 60 PSI year round.

[knowmercy]

Thanks for replying to my comments. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge that you provide here. :) I've rebuilt many engines and I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on a few points, but that's ok. For what it's worth, I got about 31mpg on my first tank and I'm up to about 36 now with approximately 1100 miles logged now.

[vancouveryaris]

would changing to synthetic oil help with fuel efficiency?

[BailOut]

would changing to synthetic oil help with fuel efficiency?
Hello there,

Yes, it does help with efficiency, but only by a small amount. That amount is often too small to break even with the higher cost of synthetics.

To get around the cost issue I run an extended performance synthetic with a 15k mile drain interval.

In the big picture there are many other benefits to running synthetic motor oil such as better protection during cold starts, better resistance to thermal breakdown, etc. In the end each of us needs to make our own decision and decide on our own price point.

[voodoo22]

I just eked out my first 50 US mpg tank of the year at 50.3 US mpg over 837kms. Hopefully this is the beginning of another streak, but colder weather and powerful winds over the next couple days might prevent that. At least the real winter is over. This was my most successful winter MPG wise as I didn't dip below 47 US mpg.

837 kms
39.099 litres of gas
4.67 l/100km
50.35 US mpg

[BailOut]

Well done, voodoo22! Pulling 50+ MPG in Winter is no easy feat at all.

[voodoo22]

Well done, voodoo22! Pulling 50+ MPG in Winter is no easy feat at all.

Thanks Bailout, but I can't take credit for doing that under real winter conditions like you drive in or like I used to live in when I was in central Canada. It rarely goes below -20 Celsius here, but with the AT anything below 0 Celsius makes it exceedingly hard to break 50.

[regal]

I have basically been hypermilling since 1990 when I was driving a 350ci Cutlass on a student budget. I think the OPer is not understanding the concept. The whole idea is not to accelerate more than you need to. Yes some of the techniques are not practical but gunning the car between lights is not practical either, or speeding up +20 mph 30 seconds before your exit. The idea behind hypermilling is to use common sense, something that probably 95% of the US drivers have none of. I drove a 50 mpg 85 Jetta for a few years and the 50 hp engine had no choice but to hypermill. It takes much less fuel to go from 0 to 60 mph in 25 seconds than to do it in 7 seconds.

The other thing about hypermilling people don't understand is that it isn't always about driving as slow as possible. 5th gear is always more efficient than 3rd. Puttering around at 30 mph in 3rd gear will give terrible milage vs 55 mph in 5th.

[Naya]

Hello,

I'm kinda new to this whole car thing, so forgive me if any of my questions seem a little noobish.

I have a 2007 Yaris with about 30,000km on it. I've taken it for all it's scheduled oil changes and haven't had any issues until recently.

I noticed my fuel economy getting worse and worse over time. At first I just attributed it to the cold winter (it gets pretty frosty in Ottawa) but even now that it's coming to spring, it's getting worse. When I was doing mostly highway driving I was getting about 400km to a tank (this was up until Janurary). I am now getting about 350km to a tank, running it almost to dry. Most of my commute now is city driving, not going above 85km/h.

I took it to my local dealership and they said nothing was wrong. Most of these issues seem to have started happening after my last oil change, but that might just be a coincidence. I also noticed that when the engine is cold, the transmission is really sticky. If not warmed up for at least 15 minutes, it will sit at about 4000rpm doing 80km/h and refuses to shift until brought up to 90km/h (4500rpm).

Sorry if it seems like I'm just spewing out information, but I really have no idea what would and wouldn't be relevant. I'm hoping someone might be able to give me some ideas. My dealership has been no help at all.

[BailOut]

Hello Naya,

The high RPM/no Drive gear change is normal while warming up. It is the same for all owners that have the automatic transmission (AT).

As for your drop in mileage I an going to ask you a seemingly stupid question:

Are you sure you have the shifter in the D position rather than the 3 position when you drive off?

Many AT owners get confused by the D placement and drive around in 3rd all the time, causing a huge hit to their fuel efficiency.

[firemachine69]

It's normal. Had my Yaris for over a year, and even with some insane hypermiling, never broke 35mpg (about 98% city driving, very short trips).

[Naya]

Hi Bailout,

Thanks for the quick reply! It's not a stupid question at all (since I have made that mistake once before). I always use D and not 3.

Just as an example of the change in fuel economy, in the first year I had the car I was doing city driving (the same as I am doing now) and was getting 600-700km per tank (run almost completely dry). My fuel economy was insanely good. I don't expect it to ever get that good again, since I don't know what I did to luck out on that, but as it stands I'm getting about the same fuel economy as my friend who has a Dodge Avenger R/T. He's really getting a kick out of that.

Oh and FireMachine, I just found a quick calculator online and I'm currently getting about 26mpg.

[rningonfumes]

Naya,

When you say you're doing mostly city driving now, is it very very short? You take a mileage hit when you do very short stops while the engine is not warmed up.

[BailOut]

Naya,

This is not an easy question to answer sometimes, but have you changed your driving style over the lest few months? Been stressed out? Been working long hours? Been more angry? Any driving that is more aggressive than your previous style will cause MPG hits, and to achieve MPG as low as you are reporting points to heavy throttle usage.

[supmet]

in the first year I had the car I was doing city driving (the same as I am doing now) and was getting 600-700km per tank (run almost completely dry).

I am now getting about 350km to a tank

I just found a quick calculator online and I'm currently getting about 26mpg.

I'm no hypermiling expert, but I'm pretty sure driving habits alone will never account for a 50% reduction/ 100% increase in FE. That is, unless you went from using EVERY hypermiler trick in the book, to ricky racer/constant wide open throttle over night, without knowing.

Something is wrong with your car.. Have you changed the air filter? What's your tire pressure?

[Yaris Hilton]

I agree, while driving technique is hugely important, something has to have happened to that car to make the mileage drop by half with the same driver.

Have you had the OBD-II system checked for error codes?

[Naya]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

"When you say you're doing mostly city driving now, is it very very short?" - Yup. Usually about 3km there, another 3km back at the end of the day

"Have you changed your driving style over the lest few months?" - Not that I can think of. I actually make a game of it to see how high I can get the milage, so I'm very concious of how hard I accelerate and try to avoid braking as much as possible.


"Have you changed the air filter? What's your tire pressure?" - Haven't checked the air filter, but I did check the tire pressure and it seems to be fine. I'll check the air filter tonight.

"Have you had the OBD-II system checked for error codes?" - Not even sure what that is :)

When I brought it to the dealership they said they hooked up a computer to look at my fuel economy then took it out to an 80km/h road. I'm not sure of all the circumstances under which they drove it but they said that it was getting 27mpg and that was just fine.

[BailOut]

"When you say you're doing mostly city driving now, is it very very short?" - Yup. Usually about 3km there, another 3km back at the end of the day

Short trips like that will totally kill your FE as the engine never warms up and runs rich the entire time. This doesn't explain why your FE dropped, though. Was your commute (or any other usual driving) a longer distance before?

On a different note, with a commute that short have you considered bicycling it rather than driving it?

[voodoo22]

Short trips like that will totally kill your FE as the engine never warms up and runs rich the entire time

This is a huge point which not enough people realize. This winter we cut out almost all our short trips individually and tried to bunch them together into 25km or more circuits (I've read that's about how long you need to run your car before it's warmed up around here). We started walking whenever humanly possible and taking virtually no short trips.

For example, the previous winter I drove nearly 5 times a week to pick up my wife from work only 1 km a way. I even convinced her to start walking it, by meeting her at her office and walking back with her.

This change in behaviour led to plenty of 50mpg tanks in winter and played a large role in increasing our FE by about 10%.

[Naya]

Now that it's finally warming up I'm looking at switching to a bicycle :) Canadian winters are a little frigid which is why I was taking the car in the first place. Now that the temp is finally above 0 I'll be switching to bike, and my other half will be taking the car back.

The reason I'm trying to see what to do about the milage is I was a bit worried because his trip is about 35km each way all highway. (To answer the question before anyone asks it, we had 2 cars, one of them got totaled, and a friend from work was able to drive him each day so I got the car.) With the milage as bad as it has been lately that would kill us on gas. I'll see how it does on highway starting next week.

[voodoo22]

I just filled in for my 6th straight 50+ US MPG tank this year and was pleasantly surprised to have a new PB tank which is going to be really hard for me to beat...

859 km's using 36.714 litres for 4.274 l/100km or 55.019 US MPG!!

When compared to what's on the market, it's amazing what this little car can do under the right conditions.

[BailOut]

Holy cow! Great job, voodoo22! That's a new world record for the gasoline Yaris! :w00t: :clap:

[mchllp925]

Well, since I hit 15,000 kms, my FE has vastly improved.
Since April 2008, I was gettin maybe 260 kms for 30 litres(or so) of fuel.
Now, I might actually get close to, or over, 250 kms for a 1/2 tank.:eyebulge:
I haven't changed my driving habits much. :burnrubber:
Is there some truth to what my dealership says, that around this mileage the FE will improve?:iono:

Just my 2 cents worth.
P.S. Congrats on your MPG voodoo22
Darrin

[voodoo22]

Thanks guys. I drove more small trips than usual as well. I feel there is would be possible to get maybe 2 or 3 more MPG out of this car if all those were avoided and the weather was warmer.

Brian, I'd bet you could break 60 MPG on my commute. I doubt I'll have a MT car as long as I live here, but if I do I'll have to re hone my skills and get more advice from you on how to work it.

Hey Darrin, I was born and raised in Winnipeg for over 30 years. If your driving experience there is anything like mine was, you're doing well. My friends and I always joke that they use unnecessary stop signs and poorly timed lights to make the city seem bigger. My 14 km commute used to take 25-35 minutes under good conditions there, now I can drive my 52 km commute in about 40 minutes when I travel at off times. I could never get mileage near like I am getting now with an auto living in Winnipeg.

[voodoo22]

So I got a rental Yaris sedan AT yesterday with 43k kms on the dial and conducted an inaccurate experiment to see how many km's I would get per fuel bar while driving flow of traffic with it for my commute and then to go to another office location I go to from time to time.

99% hwy, warm weather, dry, no wind, speed ranging from 100-140 km/h as flow of traffic actually has no flow in the fast lane. I didn't once pass someone on the right, I stayed in the fast lane and followed the person in front of me at a safe distance.

Driving flow of traffic----Driving how I drive @80-90km/h
1st bar----->118 km--->150 km+
2nd bar---->204 km---->260 km+
3rd bar---->295 km---->360 km+

I also am still driving without using brakes or a/c when driving with the so called flow and traffic moved perfectly with no accidents, traffic jams on my route yesterday. It was a best case scenario for driving fast and it took 10 minutes less to get to work.

It was also way more stressful as you are never driving fast enough or have too little space between you and a car in front of you for some one to squeeze in.

[marcus]

i hope i do better this year..the most i did was 695km on a 36 liter..90% hwy

[voodoo22]

New PB for MPG and distance on a tank cracking the 600 mile barrier.

Next tank won't be nearly as good as I will have to do downtown Toronto driving and more short trips. I've been trying to compress my short trips etc even more and thereby avoiding most short trips this past tank. I had amazing luck this past tank. I swear I got about 95% of the lights green.

One day on this tank I was almost to work when the hwy came to a standstill because of an accident which brought the 3 lanes down to 1. I got off 1 exit early and only got 1 red light all the way through the city and was even able to coast for over 3 kms downhill through 4 green lights with zero traffic around me. Today making the dreaded trip to the gas station I timed 6 lights and had no oncoming traffic for my 2 left turns. Yesterday I needed to get groceries so I hitched a ride with a co worker half way to the store; took my back pack and walked the rest of the way and back. About 8 km's. I could feel a good tank coming on and these are the sorts of things which have to happen to get these kind of numbers on our AT Yaris:

970.3 kms 602.9 miles

40.315 litres used

4.155 l/100 kms or 56.611 US MPG!!

If we had 2 cars I could post these kinds of numbers every tank, but only having one, it takes a lot of effort and planning to get there and I feel pumped about this result.

[BailOut]

:respekt: voodoo22! That is awesome, and it is a new world record for single tank MPG with the 1.5L Yaris! A combination of self discipline, technique, planning and a fair amount of luck combined to create a magical tank. I love it when a plan comes together!

You've set the bar way up there, my friend. :smile:

My own FE experience has been much different lately. I haven't been driving much, maybe once or twice per week. I bicycle to/from a carpool, I've been using public transportation to get to/from my company's data center colocation in Sacramento, I've been bicycling the grocery run and almost all my errands, telecommuting one day per week, etc. When I do drive it's usually to haul mountain bikes over the mountain for a commute on our organized ride day (which will change if Nashbar ever gets around to sending me my bicycle lights as I'll be able to trailer my MTB to the carpool with the road bicycle and return home late at night with it) or to take my Little Brother out for an activity.

My Little and I are scheduled to go for a MTB ride on a beginner trail this Saturday and I plan to get to and from his house on the north side of town, get us both to and from the trail area, to lunch and then back to his house only using public transportation and pedal power. :smile:

I'll be making another Sacramento run later this week. I already have my Greyhound tickets and exact change for city bus/rail fares ready. :smile:

However, my Yaris is still being driven a bit as I've been able to get my wife to use it for her needs in lieu of her Tacoma some days. While this saves a ton of gasoline she doesn't hypermile at all so my last tank was a paradox. It lasted a whopping 22 days but came out at just 45 MPG. This is the kind of scenario where simple mileage tracking doesn't accurately reflect the actual fuel usage and savings.

[voodoo22]

It lasted a whopping 22 days but came out at just 45 MPG. This is the kind of scenario where simple mileage tracking doesn't accurately reflect the actual fuel usage and savings.

We've really reduced our driving to the bare minimum, but unfortunately biking and public transit aren't an option for me. Luckily my wife can walk to work, because of where we live, so that offsets some of my commute.

I've been reading about your biking on cleanmpg. It's awesome that you are putting the effort into using the car only when needed. I hope you're able to keep that up, at least until winter :biggrin:

I can't believe we're sitting here complaining about only 45 mpg in the Yaris. 99% of people would kill for that number, but we're too disciplined now to be happy with that number.:wink: You should keep track of the miles you bike and walk which you would have driven before and add them to your tank as free miles on a chart. It's more difficult to figure out how you would add public transit miles, but either way, you're doing a lot better than me now for our environment. When we move next I really hope I will be able to get to work in one the ways you do now.

Thanks for the kind words and keep up the good example of what you can do if you can put your mind to it!:thumbup:

[Woody_Woodchuck]

56 mpg is fantastic, congratulations! Seems to me you will be the first to break the 650 mile tank or 60 mpg tank barrier also!!!

I’m still fighting to match your 50+ mpg tank streak. Don’t worry, my evil plan is to not match it but SMASH it altogether. A tank over 55 mpg for me is going to take some drastic hypermiling techniques and lots of lucky commutes. Not impossible but very unlikely with my terrain and commute traffic. Heck, last night on the way home traffic was so heavy I had to drive the speed limit and could not get any coasting in for the first 20 miles. Managed to just break 50 mpg for the 30 miles, average is around 54 mpg.

Keep up the great work and keep raising the bar higher.

On a side note: Getting the average numbers for speed versus impg is going to take a while. There are only a couple flat sections on my commute and with the recent traffic I will not be able to get any standard down. I’ll get them, just going to take a while is all.

[daf62757]

I just wish my Yaris had a larger gas tank. 15 gallons would have made a tremendous difference. 11 gallons isn't really large enough. 20 gallons would have made it have a tremendous range!

[voodoo22]

56 mpg is fantastic, congratulations! Seems to me you will be the first to break the 650 mile tank or 60 mpg tank barrier also!!!

I’m still fighting to match your 50+ mpg tank streak. Don’t worry, my evil plan is to not match it but SMASH it altogether. A tank over 55 mpg for me is going to take some drastic hypermiling techniques and lots of lucky commutes. Not impossible but very unlikely with my terrain and commute traffic. Heck, last night on the way home traffic was so heavy I had to drive the speed limit and could not get any coasting in for the first 20 miles. Managed to just break 50 mpg for the 30 miles, average is around 54 mpg.

Keep up the great work and keep raising the bar higher.

On a side note: Getting the average numbers for speed versus impg is going to take a while. There are only a couple flat sections on my commute and with the recent traffic I will not be able to get any standard down. I’ll get them, just going to take a while is all.

Thanks Woody and I watch with anticipation for the day when you SMASH my streak!:thumbup:

650 miles, I don't know if it's possible, but I have a long trip coming up where hopefully it won't prove too hilly to test the limits of this car. I feel 100% confident I could break 60 if I had a MT, but I don't know if it can be done with an AT with no P&G at hwy speeds.:iono:

[STANGER45]

I just wish there was that one magical thing I could add to my Yaris that would get it to 50mpg~!

Http://sniperfp10.googlepages.com

[ellenbetty]

I decide to start keeping track of my fuel economy. My first result is 31 mpg. My driving has been both Interstate and city driving. I plan to start using the fuel economy choice upon my Garmin nuvi 255WT. Since I have not noticed the fuel economy choice on my nuvi before, I wonder the fuel economy option was added when I updated my nuvi's software through my computer.

[MadMax]

I decide to start keeping track of my fuel economy. My first result is 31 mpg. My driving has been both Interstate and city driving. I plan to start using the fuel economy choice upon my Garmin nuvi 255WT. Since I have not noticed the fuel economy choice on my nuvi before, I wonder the fuel economy option was added when I updated my nuvi's software through my computer.

So how does that work? Do you reset the odometer on the Garmin to zero when you fuel up the car, then punch in the amount of gas you put in the next time?

As I don't run my GPS all the time, it is a useless function for me. And considering that you can easily computer your MPG when you fill up your tank by dividing the number of miles driven by the gallons of gas you put in to fill it up again, it is easy to do manually. I keep a log in my Palm Pilot, and if by chance I don't have it with me I simply get a receipt and note how many miles I got out of the tank.

[ecnal]

I just wish there was that one magical thing I could add to my Yaris that would get it to 50mpg~!

Http://sniperfp10.googlepages.com

That link brought me to a site with a Trojan on it, just letting you know.

[BailOut]

I have a toyota yaris 1.0 My fuel comsumption record is 60 MPG !!! = 3.9 liter / 100km

That is awesome, orheen! :clap: I always wondered what could be done with the 1.3L and 1.0L gasoline engines. I often wish that they were available in North America.

[JapRulezz]

i installed a K&N SRI and my average is 7.5 L / 100 km with aggressive driving
is that good ?

[ellenbetty]

So how does that work? Do you reset the odometer on the Garmin to zero when you fuel up the car, then punch in the amount of gas you put in the next time?


I have been using the ecometer's fuel averaging system.

I sometimes use the Yaris built in trip meter to get miles driven when refueling to figure out mpg.

I have two ecometers, one for each Yaris. The 'fastest route' involving driving on the US Interstate system gets slightly better fuel economy than driving the 'most economical' route.

Next test will involve 'shortest route' to compare mpg. According to what I can tell, the Garmin follows the natural flow of water down or up hill when I select the 'fuel economical' route for the Yaris.

[orheen]

That is awesome, orheen! :clap: I always wondered what could be done with the 1.3L and 1.0L gasoline engines. I often wish that they were available in North America.


Yess it's like a joke. My last record of fuel consumption is 65 MPG!!! = 3.6 L / 100 km. I know its unbeliviable but air turbulance does everything possible :thumbup:

I made it with 3 men in car (included me)
I think Toyota yaris 1.0 is more misery than prius :thumbsup:

[kentborg]

Breaking 50 MPG

Scangauge II said I was at 52.6 MPG when I left the freeway. By the time I got home it was down to 52.4. After a morning trip through red stop lights in the city I bought gas and the actual MPG by then was just under 50--which was consistent with the Scangauge number. So I am convinced I was well over 50 on the highway.

The trip was from near Burlington, VT (Taft's Corner) to Boston (Somerville), with one stop for tolls and another immediately after to close the fuel fill that somehow was not latched. Dry roads (wet kills mileage), 2007, stock USA hardware, 1.5L engine, 4-door, 5-speed with 11K miles on it. No passenger (to add weight nor for me to annoy). Trunk was not empty. GPS with vertical speed displayed. External GPS and Sirius antennas adding a smidge of drag. Headlights on, AC off.

How did I do it? I am not sure. I am still learning. Every few miles I seem to adjust my strategy.

I have my gauge display showing:

MPG TPS
AVG MPH


Here is my current guess about what I was doing:

- Plan ahead so as to never hit the brake. (If I must brake for safety, yes, I brake.)

- Once I am on the highway, I never use anything but 5th gear unless I need to accelerate out of trouble, if something slows the traffic too much, etc. Low gears offer power and acceleration, but are not good for mileage.

- Try to go at least 55 MPH. First, going too slowly is scary, other cars don't expect it. Second, idling the engine buys me no distance, so even when coasting, I want to go fast enough to amortize that overhead.

- Don't invest unnecessary gasoline in going too fast, because the wind resistance will go up. If I know there is a long downhill that will get me going fast, I don't waste gas on cresting the top of the hill any faster than I need to to be safe in traffic.

- When I need a little braking (maybe on a long downhill) I take my foot off the clutch and watch MPG display 9999. Instead of wasting my speed on heating up the brake pads, I can use a little of it to run the engine at idle with no gasoline consumption. However, that 9999-display is not my friend unless I need a little braking. Otherwise I coast with the clutch down.

- When on the flat I pulse-and-glide: do a pulse throttle between 25 and 30 (the TPS number). Towards the end of my drive yesterday I was thinking a throttle of 25 is better, but I didn't have much flat left at that point. For the pulse I accelerate to about 63 MPH (because of display lag, I usually end up hitting 64), then I put my foot on the clutch for the glide and coast down to 57 MPH before hitting the gas for the next pulse (again, because of lags my speed will usually fall to about 55 before I speed up).

- Drive the hills. Watch the GPS vertical speed display to know if I am currently going up or down, look ahead to see whether the road bends up or down. Be strategic and try to use gas to go uphill and gravity to go downhill.

- Drive the traffic. Not just for safety, but for good mileage. I always need to know who is in front of me and who is in front of them and whether they are slowing or speeding up. I always need to know who is behind me, approaching or following or getting annoyed by me and looking to pass, and who is behind them. I need to know who is in lanes next to me and what they are doing. Anticipation is key and to anticipate I need to be very observant of the current situation. To get good mileage I need to be more aware of traffic not less. Watching my gauges is only part of the task.

- When going uphill the "glide" part of pulse-and-glide doesn't work so well, so if the hill wasn't too steep, I did "pulse-and-go-easy". The pulse would be a throttle of 25 and the "go-easy" would be maybe a throttle 20 or 21--but at that point I am really watching the current MPG and speed, by pulling off on the gas I can get a bigger MPG number. I won't see the 200+ MPG of coasting at high speed, but I can see my go-easy MPG go up to maybe 50-something. The pulse MPG would maybe in the low 30s (depending on the hill). That makes for an uphill average that isn't so bad. (And any downhill on the other side will still be great.)

- If the uphill is too steep, I do one long pulse, keep my speed high enough to not be dangerous, watch the current MPG, and frantically wonder whether there is something I can do differently to use less gas.

- Pretend I have a passenger whom I don't want to annoy, even if I am alone--smooth use of the clutch and gas saves clutch and gas.


Proviso: Pay attention to driving! When I wanted to find another radio station, my mileage fell--this kind of driving requires concentration; it is a good way to fight boredom on a long boring drive, it is not something to do instead of driving safely. Make sure you are comfortable with the operation of your car. If traffic or weather distracts, pay attention to the traffic and weather. Getting in an accident is terrible for your mileage.


My guess is that getting over 50 MPG on the highway is quite doable in good conditions, but it seems touchy enough that I think I am near the edge of what is practical.


A couple questions are bouncing around in my mind:

- What is the most efficient throttle setting for this engine?

Is throttle ("TPS") the right parameter to watch?, or should I be looking at load ("LOD")?? Is there a single answer to this "most efficient" question, or are there complications I am missing? I am thinking this is how hard to pulse, is that correct, what are the exceptions? Is there a practical way to answer this question by being "all scientific" and measuring actual engine efficiency?

- It seems I can spend gas to (1) move on the flat, (2) invest in additional speed, i.e., accelerate (which can be cashed in by coasting), and (3) invest in altitude, i.e., climb a hill (which can be cashed in by going downhill). Does this cover it? Am I missing something here?

- Given that I don't have a Prius, how can I get vaguely good mileage in the city?

As bad a braking is, I suspect that starting from a dead stop is the real killer. What is the best way to start from 0 MPH?

I'll try to remember to follow up with new numbers next I get in some highway driving.


Thanks,


-kb, the Kent who is wondering how much this kind of driving can become automatic and so let him again tune the radio.


P.S. I have only had this car for a couple thousand miles, I still need to check the tires. I plan to over inflate them a little, maybe up to 37 PSI vs. the standard 32 (is it?), it will be interesting to see how much that helps. ... Checking them now I notice they are currently not even inflated to factory spec, so I might have some significant room for improvement here.

[Yaris Hilton]

Dude, go here: http://cleanmpg.com/

You can find lots of existing discussion about all these issues and more, and people who just LOVE to talk about hypermiling techniques.

[orheen]

http://yaris.rforum.biz/english-general-yaris-discussion-f16/fuel-efficiency-i-t647.htm

Europe yaris 1.3 fuel usage lost

You not need register to send message.

[randydandy]

i live in the Philippines and its very hard to go above 23mpg because of the traffic here.. :(

[randydandy]

The standard ways to improve fuel economy include not accelerating too quickly,planning your route so that you hit as few traffic lights as possible and not driving too fast.
I also live in the Philippines and yes,it is sometimes hard to achieve high gas mileage due to traffics mostly on rush hour.


im already very light footed. but max i can get for city driving is 10.7 km/l (30.28mpg) and 18 km/l (51 mpg) for highway driving

[knowmercy]

BailOut, I can't help but ask when's the last time you tore down an engine? You seem to know quite a bit about how they work and how to get the best fuel mileage.

[127.0.0.1]

Breaking 50 MPG

Scangauge II said I was at 52.6 MPG when I left the freeway. By the time I got home it was down to 52.4. After a morning trip through red stop lights in the city I bought gas and the actual MPG by then was just under 50--which was consistent with the Scangauge number. So I am convinced I was well over 50 on the highway.

The trip was from near Burlington, VT (Taft's Corner) to Boston (Somerville), with one stop for tolls and another immediately after to close the fuel fill that somehow was not latched. Dry roads (wet kills mileage), 2007, stock USA hardware, 1.5L engine, 4-door, 5-speed with 11K miles on it. No passenger (to add weight nor for me to annoy). Trunk was not empty. GPS with vertical speed displayed. External GPS and Sirius antennas adding a smidge of drag. Headlights on, AC off.

How did I do it? I am not sure. I am still learning. Every few miles I seem to adjust my strategy.

I have my gauge display showing:

MPG TPS
AVG MPH


Here is my current guess about what I was doing:

- Plan ahead so as to never hit the brake. (If I must brake for safety, yes, I brake.)

- Once I am on the highway, I never use anything but 5th gear unless I need to accelerate out of trouble, if something slows the traffic too much, etc. Low gears offer power and acceleration, but are not good for mileage.

- Try to go at least 55 MPH. First, going too slowly is scary, other cars don't expect it. Second, idling the engine buys me no distance, so even when coasting, I want to go fast enough to amortize that overhead.

- Don't invest unnecessary gasoline in going too fast, because the wind resistance will go up. If I know there is a long downhill that will get me going fast, I don't waste gas on cresting the top of the hill any faster than I need to to be safe in traffic.

- When I need a little braking (maybe on a long downhill) I take my foot off the clutch and watch MPG display 9999. Instead of wasting my speed on heating up the brake pads, I can use a little of it to run the engine at idle with no gasoline consumption. However, that 9999-display is not my friend unless I need a little braking. Otherwise I coast with the clutch down.

- When on the flat I pulse-and-glide: do a pulse throttle between 25 and 30 (the TPS number). Towards the end of my drive yesterday I was thinking a throttle of 25 is better, but I didn't have much flat left at that point. For the pulse I accelerate to about 63 MPH (because of display lag, I usually end up hitting 64), then I put my foot on the clutch for the glide and coast down to 57 MPH before hitting the gas for the next pulse (again, because of lags my speed will usually fall to about 55 before I speed up).

- Drive the hills. Watch the GPS vertical speed display to know if I am currently going up or down, look ahead to see whether the road bends up or down. Be strategic and try to use gas to go uphill and gravity to go downhill.

- Drive the traffic. Not just for safety, but for good mileage. I always need to know who is in front of me and who is in front of them and whether they are slowing or speeding up. I always need to know who is behind me, approaching or following or getting annoyed by me and looking to pass, and who is behind them. I need to know who is in lanes next to me and what they are doing. Anticipation is key and to anticipate I need to be very observant of the current situation. To get good mileage I need to be more aware of traffic not less. Watching my gauges is only part of the task.

- When going uphill the "glide" part of pulse-and-glide doesn't work so well, so if the hill wasn't too steep, I did "pulse-and-go-easy". The pulse would be a throttle of 25 and the "go-easy" would be maybe a throttle 20 or 21--but at that point I am really watching the current MPG and speed, by pulling off on the gas I can get a bigger MPG number. I won't see the 200+ MPG of coasting at high speed, but I can see my go-easy MPG go up to maybe 50-something. The pulse MPG would maybe in the low 30s (depending on the hill). That makes for an uphill average that isn't so bad. (And any downhill on the other side will still be great.)

- If the uphill is too steep, I do one long pulse, keep my speed high enough to not be dangerous, watch the current MPG, and frantically wonder whether there is something I can do differently to use less gas.

- Pretend I have a passenger whom I don't want to annoy, even if I am alone--smooth use of the clutch and gas saves clutch and gas.


Proviso: Pay attention to driving! When I wanted to find another radio station, my mileage fell--this kind of driving requires concentration; it is a good way to fight boredom on a long boring drive, it is not something to do instead of driving safely. Make sure you are comfortable with the operation of your car. If traffic or weather distracts, pay attention to the traffic and weather. Getting in an accident is terrible for your mileage.


My guess is that getting over 50 MPG on the highway is quite doable in good conditions, but it seems touchy enough that I think I am near the edge of what is practical.


A couple questions are bouncing around in my mind:

- What is the most efficient throttle setting for this engine?

Is throttle ("TPS") the right parameter to watch?, or should I be looking at load ("LOD")?? Is there a single answer to this "most efficient" question, or are there complications I am missing? I am thinking this is how hard to pulse, is that correct, what are the exceptions? Is there a practical way to answer this question by being "all scientific" and measuring actual engine efficiency?

- It seems I can spend gas to (1) move on the flat, (2) invest in additional speed, i.e., accelerate (which can be cashed in by coasting), and (3) invest in altitude, i.e., climb a hill (which can be cashed in by going downhill). Does this cover it? Am I missing something here?

- Given that I don't have a Prius, how can I get vaguely good mileage in the city?

As bad a braking is, I suspect that starting from a dead stop is the real killer. What is the best way to start from 0 MPH?

I'll try to remember to follow up with new numbers next I get in some highway driving.


Thanks,


-kb, the Kent who is wondering how much this kind of driving can become automatic and so let him again tune the radio.


P.S. I have only had this car for a couple thousand miles, I still need to check the tires. I plan to over inflate them a little, maybe up to 37 PSI vs. the standard 32 (is it?), it will be interesting to see how much that helps. ... Checking them now I notice they are currently not even inflated to factory spec, so I might have some significant room for improvement here.


how did you do it ?

0) standard transmission > automatic as far as saving gas goes

1) it is downhill most the way

2) you had to have used an unfamiliar pump

3) I am guessing scangauge calibration was a wee bit in favor of high mpg
prove me wrong...tell me you measure your own gas and don't use pump handles

anyhow, that is a lot of mpg...and also believable but it is way to close to what is possible/impossible

[kentborg]

I am still getting above 50 MPG--on the highway. But I am pissed at winter gas.

Tonight, driving from St. Albams, VT to Boston (with one stop) my Scangauge II reported over 50 MPG, without my wife divorcing me for driving too slowly.

I have an idea that if I were to go through my gasoline logs (going back quite a few years, long before I had this Yaris) I would be able to spot when the winter gasoline comes and goes in New England, USA. I seem to have a recent mileage drop of over 2% that came from no where. Yes, there are lots of reasons for why winter mileage should be lower, but mostly winter hasn't more than suggested itself so far in 2009. I think the gasoline changed, my mileage dropped, it dropped by something looks like over 2%. (Too many variables to be precise.)

I have learned more about getting good mileage.

Coasting is good. Try something: On a clear, flat stretch of road with no traffic, get up to about 50 MPH, and coast. (Manual transmission, foot on the clutch, foot off the gas.) Your speed will drop, but once it hits around 40 MPH, it seems to hang in there so well, it takes nearly forever to get all the way down to 29 MPH. I am thinking that doing a pulse and glide regime in the 45-to-30 MPH range must be magical if one could only find the road/traffic to permit it. Or, put another way, going fast requires pushing a lot of air out of the way quickly, and that is expensive. Slower is better if you can avoid getting hit from behind.

Air in the tires is good. One day after parking the car for a couple days I noticed my mileage was running worse. (Scangauge II showing the way.) It seemed like something was dragging behind me. Guess what? I had a leak in one tire. I could see my low tire after parking for a long weekend.

Getting good mileage is work. Great for boring drives, but stay alert in city driving. I notice that I don't hear the content of podcasts with as much comprehension since I started trying to hit 55 MPG.

Wind patterns: Today I noticed that the car was dusty after parking for several days. After driving for an hour or so I stopped for gas. The dust still seemed uniform--except behind my Garmin GPS antenna above the windshield where it seems to have added some some turbulence that scrubbed the dust behind it. The Sirius antenna above the rear window (a sedan) is lower profile and had less of a pattern. I doubt it is a big difference in the total, but it all ads up. Maybe the day I wear out the GPS antenna plug I can find a new antenna with a lower profile.

Riding the hills. Yes, going net down hill is good for mileage, but a more honest way to do it is to average the level, but with hills. Rolling hills make it possible to pulse and glide without going so much slower than the rest of the traffic. Going somewhat slower than traffic is good, it keeps from annoying one car for too long, but going too slow is a way to get mashed by some V8 SUV with limited depth perception.

Limits: Highway driving means highway speeds. I am thinking that something in the lower 50s MPG is something a Yaris is quite capable of without going so slowly as to get killed in 70 MPH traffic.

-kb

[Truwriter]

Lots of really technical talk about mpg here but I only know that I got on the interstate to visit son, traveled in Ohio (I77 to OH Turnpike and west) and had the cruise on almost the whole time (toll booths). When I arrived I gassed up and did my math and got well over 45 mpgs. I have a 4 door sedan, 2008, automatic and could not be more pleased. Vehicle is comfortable as well. The Yaris is fantastic. :w00t:

[cafloresm]

Additional notes & musings:

This shows you that anyone can beat 40 MPG in the Yaris. Yes, this means you, too!

Yes but at the expense of looking like a travelling juggler :burnrubber:

[jjonrofl]

Yes but at the expense of looking like a travelling juggler

What do you mean, exactly?

[Yaris Hilton]

Just a passing troll. Don't feed him.

[jjonrofl]

To the people who get 40+mpg- do you do only highway driving? I do about 70% city / 30% highway and have only managed 33mpg... :(

[Rikster]

Currently doing 47mpg, in my 1.0 3cylinder:cool:

[KrazyDawg]

What's the optimum speed for driving on say a flat road? Would it be 55 MPH? Less? If anyone has a scangauge, I would be interested in the numbers. I have a 6-7 mile section in my commute where the speed limit is 50 MPH but there are stop lights.

[BailOut]

Currently doing 47mpg, in my 1.0 3cylinder:cool:
You're off to a great start, Rikster! :thumbup: You should be able to stomp on us folks in the U.S. that can only get the 1.5L.


What's the optimum speed for driving on say a flat road? Would it be 55 MPH? Less? If anyone has a scangauge, I would be interested in the numbers. I have a 6-7 mile section in my commute where the speed limit is 50 MPH but there are stop lights.
Hi, KrazyDawg. Using the SGII many of us have verified that 35-45 MPH is the sweet spot for efficiency on relatively flat roads. The 10 MPH difference is a broad range that depends on many factors such as tire pressure, road quality, wind resistance, ambient temperature, etc., but the common sweet spot within that range seems to be between 37-39 MPH.

[KrazyDawg]

You're off to a great start, Rikster! :thumbup: You should be able to stomp on us folks in the U.S. that can only get the 1.5L.



Hi, KrazyDawg. Using the SGII many of us have verified that 35-45 MPH is the sweet spot for efficiency on relatively flat roads. The 10 MPH difference is a broad range that depends on many factors such as tire pressure, road quality, wind resistance, ambient temperature, etc., but the common sweet spot within that range seems to be between 37-39 MPH.

Thanks Bailout. There's been a few occasions where someone drives at 40 MPH on the 50 MPH strech and I usually go around because I thought the sweet spot was around 50-55.

[Rikster]

You're off to a great start, Rikster! :thumbup: You should be able to stomp on us folks in the U.S. that can only get the 1.5L.



Hi, KrazyDawg. Using the SGII many of us have verified that 35-45 MPH is the sweet spot for efficiency on relatively flat roads. The 10 MPH difference is a broad range that depends on many factors such as tire pressure, road quality, wind resistance, ambient temperature, etc., but the common sweet spot within that range seems to be between 37-39 MPH.

Well it's not really fair, holland's landscape is all flat :D which come's in handy when it come's to fuel efficiency!

http://94.100.115.198/761750001-761800000/761787601-761787700/761787620_6_XTAK.jpeg

[Yaris Hilton]

What's the optimum speed for driving on say a flat road? Would it be 55 MPH? Less? If anyone has a scangauge, I would be interested in the numbers. I have a 6-7 mile section in my commute where the speed limit is 50 MPH but there are stop lights.

For most cars under steady state, level ground conditions, maximum mileage is found in the vicinity of 35 MPH.

[Kal-El]

What's the optimum speed for driving on say a flat road? Would it be 55 MPH? Less? If anyone has a scangauge, I would be interested in the numbers. I have a 6-7 mile section in my commute where the speed limit is 50 MPH but there are stop lights.

And that's unfortunately where we waste most of our gas - every time we have to stop. Getting back up to speed is the killer.

I'd estimate that the Yaris achieves between 45-55 mpg if it is kept very steadily at 40 mph on a level road with no head wind.

[sickpuppy1]

Well I cant gripe! Just got my 2010 Yaris sedan last Saturday, filled up by the dealer, so not sure how well it was done. Anyways, I have a tendancy to "top it off" , but I filled it slowly and checked at the 1st click. 10.2 gallons,lol pretty low. 40.9 mpg for 418 miles .When topped off at 10.8 gallons its 38.7 mpg. Not bad for the first tank. That 418 miles is total on the car, so were a couple of thousand away from broke in. And to be honest, not being used to the car and not using the cruise much, I've found myself between 75 and 80mph at times. Anyways, lovin it so far!! I'm gonna bump the tire pressure a bit and see how I like it. I'm not gonna go the hyper miler route, but will adjust driving to a certain extent to help. I owned a 2001 Civic before this and routinely got 36-38 with it.

[Ranger SVO]

So far I'm very happy with my Yaris. Last week I drove 218 miles and put in 5.52 gallons of gas. Thats about 39.5 miles per gallon. In my opinion, thats really good.

About 80% of my driving is highway, the rest city. Awesome little car

[Falconia]

You're off to a great start, Rikster! :thumbup: You should be able to stomp on us folks in the U.S. that can only get the 1.5L.



Hi, KrazyDawg. Using the SGII many of us have verified that 35-45 MPH is the sweet spot for efficiency on relatively flat roads. The 10 MPH difference is a broad range that depends on many factors such as tire pressure, road quality, wind resistance, ambient temperature, etc., but the common sweet spot within that range seems to be between 37-39 MPH.

You mean the real speed or the speed that speedometer shows. I just checked with navigation system that speedometer shows 4,4mph above real speed

[Hypermiler]

I am using a ScanGauge II to help me get the most out of a gallon of gas. Since I got it, I have been monitoring the ScanGauge II and have been able to manage a new best of 47.5mpg. That was the fuel economy average for a ride home from work, a 34 mile drive. It is flat, speed limit if 50mph, and only a few stops... Ideal for generating great mileage numbers.

But 47.5mpg is in Prius and the econobox diesel range - AWESOME for a $15k car!!!

[BailOut]

^^ Well done! :smile:

[pawsplus]

Got 40 mpg on my second tank!! I drive mostly on state roads/back roads. Not too many stop signs but lots of hills and turns and slowing down and speeding up. Some in the city. Wasn't on the interstate at ALL during this tank!

[talnlnky]

I'm not gonna go the hyper miler route, but will adjust driving to a certain extent to help. I owned a 2001 Civic before this and routinely got 36-38 with it.

hahaha hahahaha.... yes you will, just wait 3-6 months, after what... 2 weeks you are already tracking fuel efficiency and posting about it... HYPERMILER HERE YOU COME!

[Boost Addicted]

''2) Accelerate and brake slowly and steadily, avoiding jackrabbit starts and stops. No one ever got a trophy for getting to the next red light first or getting up to highway speed in the first 200m of an on-ramp, and you can't beat the timing of a stop sign. In the Yaris I try to never let my RPM get above 2,000 unless I need to merge quickly, in which case I allow for 2,200. The only time I get higher than that is on the climbing side of my mountain commute, as once you get into 6% and 7% grades it simply requires more fuel to keep moving.''

Shifting and accelerating at such low RPM's is actually very hard on the transmission and engine.... We've had multiple cars in the shop with tranny problems because people are afraid of RPM's.

It is fact that MPG, at a X miles per hour, is un-affected by RPM's. You could be at 2K or 5K, at X speed, you're getting the same fuel mileage. The difference is engine and transmission load.

And trying to accelerate from lower RPM's puts a huge load on the engine, and actually uses much more fuel than if you accelerate from 3000 RPM's. Think of it like riding a mountain bike. Does it take more energy to get to 10mph in the highest gear, peddling slowly (due to the force it takes), or in the lowest gear at a faster rate, with great ease?

Trust me on this one lol, do NOT be afraid of RPM's, it doesn't affect fuel mileage in the terms stated above. Do your engine and tranny a favor by shifting at 3K or even a bit higher. I'm rarely cruising below 2 grand... And I get great fuel mileage.

Not tryin' to stir up arguments here, just letting you guys know what I've learned throughout the years of going to school for this as well as field work.

=)

[Boost Addicted]

'10) and never idle it to warm it up. The Yaris offers a low coolant indicator light in the dash panel that let's you know when it is running in its least fuel efficient state. As for idling to warm it up, remember that you're getting exactly ZERO MPG while idling.''


I also have to disagree with this lol. As you DO get zero mpg while warming up, you're getting worse fuel mileage driving it cold, especially in the winter... In the summer, not so much.

But in the winter, metal shrinks even more with the colder weather, and your tolerances are loose (eg. piston rings, oil pump gears, valvetrain) making operation sloppy, inefficient, and less resistance to wear. In addition, the coolant temp sensor will dump a bunch of extra fuel until the engine is at its operating temperature... So even though you're running rich at idle to warm it up, you're still using more fuel when driving it cold...

Ofcourse, when you measure lost MPG's when letting it warm up at idle, vs driving it right off the bat, numbers will be lower... But if you calculate volume of fuel used to warm the vehicle at idle vs. volume of fuel used to warm it driving when its cold, idle will get better mileage every time.

In summer weather its really not necessary.. But regardless of ambient temperature, you shouldn't put the car in gear untill 10 seconds after ignition to allow for oil to properly lubricate all parts of your engine

Just my .02 :)

[sbergman27]

I also have to disagree with this lol. As you DO get zero mpg while warming up, you're getting worse fuel mileage driving it cold, especially in the winter... In the summer, not so much.
This very interesting topic is one which calls for a great deal of quantitative testing. It can't be discussed in coarse terms like "driving vs not driving" or "winter vs summer". Obviously, putting it in drive and letting the idle speed pull you toward the edge of the parking lot is going to get you better FE than just sitting there idling. On the other hand, turning the key and tooling out onto the 70 MPH Interstate is going to be worse than just sitting there at idle for a while. The truth lies in the minute details of the specific situation.

Intuitively, I would say that if it is practicable to drive very slowly and leisurely until the "Cool" light goes off (which happens at about 128F coolant temperature, BTW) then that is probably the best thing to do. I you must push the engine hard from your cold start position, then it may be best to warm it up a bit. This is not a question with a simple answer. And I'm not Aristotle. So I won't claim to have an answer based upon pure logic and reason.

We need some experimental data to sort this one out.

-Steve

[Boost Addicted]

Honestly I don't feel the truth lies in minute details of the situation... But none the less, the huge factor of increased engine wear is at play. And mileage doesn't matter too much when you have worn piston rings at 150K.

And this isn't based on ''pure logic and reason'', its based on fuel mileage calculation.

[sbergman27]

Honestly I don't feel the truth lies in minute details of the situation... But none the less, the huge factor of increased engine wear is at play.
That is a different, but valid, vector, which I was not addressing. But I would say that it actually *increases* the complexity of the question. I would agree that including that metric would shift things a bit toward delaying, or slowing down the allowed driving speed.

Consider that you are going to get more miles out of the engine if you start it and let it idle in drive, at whatever speed that gets you, and if conditions allow, than if you just sit there getting 0 miles per revolution out of it.

Actual data *is* needed to map this landscape.

-Steve

[Boost Addicted]

Meh ::shrugs::, I'll drive how I drive and you guys can drive how you drive lol, I was just throwing in my .02

All I'm saying is, with the way I drive as specified above (this is for the Jetta, my girlfriend has the Yaris) I get 34mpg combined city highway... And I have about 275wtq. I'm not bragging about numbers, I think the Yaris is a very solid built car, everything feels tight, its comfortable, and its practical... I'm just saying that if its possible for a larger displacement engine with much more power to get as much fuel mileage as it does, you Yaris owners could benefit from the same techniques and practices I use to get the full potential out of your car.

[sbergman27]

I'm not certain that warming up vs not makes an easily measurable difference, depending upon how you do it. I do maintain that if one carefully measured the differences, the resulting data set would likely be interesting. And perhaps hold unexpected surprises for both of us.

I'm curious. Once you finish warming up... where are you, typically, 3 minutes later?

-Steve

[Boost Addicted]

No, I agree with the idle vs. cold run thing, but shifting at higher RPM's, coasting in gear, and crusing at higher RPM's definitly seems to help me save a bunch of fuel. Infact if you try shifting at 3-3.5K vs. 2k RPM's, you can feel a difference.. An ease, if you will, between the two. Certainly a smoother clutch engagement.

As for 3 minutes idle warmup, in summer, fall weather, I'm probably between 120 and 130*F. 190*F is op temp. In the winter, weather really varies... Sometimes its 5 minutes to get up to that temp. I usually start driving at 120-140*F cause by the time I'm at the end of my street, I'm at 190*F.

[Loren]

All I'm saying is, with the way I drive as specified above (this is for the Jetta, my girlfriend has the Yaris) I get 34mpg combined city highway.
34mpg is good for your car, I'm not going to say it isn't. But...

34mpg is only 17% more than the EPA rating of 29 hwy for your Jetta.

Who do we trust for advice on how to most efficiently drive a Yaris? The guy who drives a Jetta and only beats EPA by 17%... or the guys who drive Yarii, and regularly beat EPA by over 30%?

I took the advice of the guys getting over 30% better than EPA (that's 47+mpg), learned and practiced the techniques, and now I *am* one of those guys.

[Boost Addicted]

lol my friend, I'm not driving an RX-8 with a wankel rotory engine... Our engine designs are nearly identical. Four pistons, same injection system, both gasoline engines, and so on... Theories that work on a Volkswagen will work on a Toyota, a Honda, a Ford, and so on. Both are manual transmissions... So think about it. And learn to read, because 34mpg is my combined city/highway. Pure highway is about 37mpg.


Must I say again, this is my two cents... Take it or leave it. I don't care. But please don't argue untill you read thuroughly and know the facts of the argument, like internal combustion engine function, and transmission syncro operation. Not tryin to be a dick here, my initial intentions were to help out. Clearly I am not, so I'll end this here... If I wanted to fight with people I'd head to vwvortex.

[sbergman27]

But please don't argue untill you read thuroughly and know the facts of the argument, like internal combustion engine function, and transmission syncro operation.
Actually, this can all be settled in a fairly straightforward way. As I've said before, we need data. And that's exactly what the Scangauge II collects very well.

To what temperature would you recommend warming the engine before starting to drive? (The "Cold" light goes off at 130F.)

I can simply pick, say, two very different courses. One which requires only light throttle to reach a particular close by destination. And another which involves getting right onto the highway.[1] Both courses can be run, always from a cold start at similar ambient temperature, with a warm up period, and without.

That should throw some illumination upon this subject of contention. And the results might suggest a further experiment or experiments. Arguing in a vacuum is kind of pointless.

This would address the fuel consumption issue. The engine wear issue is, unfortunately, more difficult to put numbers on.

That said, I'm off to the Rocky Mountains shortly, and will likely not begin to address this until at least early next week. But anyone with the proper instrumentation should feel free to start without me. ;-)

-Steve

[1] Making certain, of course, that both courses are long enough that the engine is at 180F by the end of them, even without a separate warm up period.

[Boost Addicted]

''Collects very well''? Did I read that correctly? You use a $200 scan tool that has 5 buttons to figure out all the necessary information? Soo... Can you read fuel maps/trims? Read individual measuring blocks for injector pulse width and duty cycles? Open and closed loop? Monitor and log multiple sensor outputs? Suggested vs. actual MAF, MAP, TB measurments? ... Do you even have wideband oxygen sensors to measure your precise fuel combustion? Oooor... Do you just have some magic program that calculates fuel mileage? Cause I have that on my dashboard in the Jetta... I don't need a scan tool to do this. I can just go ahead and do it for you if it's gonna be the same thing.

Come back when you have a TIS Techstream.

Until then, Mr. Burgman, you can get yourself a nice magnetic drain plug, and again, as said before, drive one cycle of 5000 miles driving cold, right off the bat... No waiting. Then another 5000K miles letting the car warm (in winter months), or giving her 10 seconds minimum for proper distribution of lubrication if in summer months, then compare volume of metal material on the magnet.

If you don't give a damn about engine wear and all you care about is fuel mileage, then by all means let me dismiss this situation now... Because you've got larger problems in life to deal with if you consider engine wear<minimal fuel savings.

[sbergman27]

''Collects very well''? Did I read that correctly? You use a $200 scan tool that has 5 buttons to figure out all the necessary information?

The necessary information to resolve the fuel economy question is nothing more than total fuel consumption for the trips. Think about it. So all of your hand waving about sensor outputs, etc. is completely irrelevant. I have already expressed, clearly, in a previous post in this thread, that engine wear is a factor that needs to be taken into account. Engine overhauls represent a fair investment in resources. Not to mention personal expense. But I also noted that engine wear is more difficult to quantify and would be beyond what my methodology would try to address. You might want to review the thread.

I'm not addressing the magnetic drain plug bit since I assume that it was not intended to be taken seriously. I suppose something might be done using UOA results, to the extent that one trusts them... which I don't particularly.

BTW, you didn't answer my question about your preferred target temperature for the warm ups.

Also, you really need to calm down. Your post is borderline irrational, and frankly, inappropriate in tone. In short, you seem to be frothing a bit.

This is the only response that I intend to make to a nonconstructive post in this thread. Life is too short to waste time on such things.

-Steve

[127.0.0.1]

''Collects very well''? Did I read that correctly? You use a $200 scan tool that has 5 buttons to figure out all the necessary information? Soo... Can you read fuel maps/trims? Read individual measuring blocks for injector pulse width and duty cycles? Open and closed loop? Monitor and log multiple sensor outputs? Suggested vs. actual MAF, MAP, TB measurments? ... Do you even have wideband oxygen sensors to measure your precise fuel combustion? Oooor... Do you just have some magic program that calculates fuel mileage? Cause I have that on my dashboard in the Jetta... I don't need a scan tool to do this. I can just go ahead and do it for you if it's gonna be the same thing.

Come back when you have a TIS Techstream.

Until then, Mr. Burgman, you can get yourself a nice magnetic drain plug, and again, as said before, drive one cycle of 5000 miles driving cold, right off the bat... No waiting. Then another 5000K miles letting the car warm (in winter months), or giving her 10 seconds minimum for proper distribution of lubrication if in summer months, then compare volume of metal material on the magnet.

If you don't give a damn about engine wear and all you care about is fuel mileage, then by all means let me dismiss this situation now... Because you've got larger problems in life to deal with if you consider engine wear<minimal fuel savings.

is 11 years 190,000 miles considered long enough ?


I 'll say something for engine wear and toyota motors. I operate a 5VZFE. I owned my 4runner from new in Dec 1998 to today, it has 190,000 + miles on it. all it ever got since mile 600 was mobil 1 5-30 every 8000 miles.

(plus timing belts and regular owners manual maint. at the dealer)

I always, ALWAYS just jump right in and drive it, zero or minimal warmup
(only as long as it takes me to adjust whatever I am doing. I get in car and always go immediately.) transmission and engine still run better now than the first 10,000 miles. ya I don't stomp it hard until it is warm but I go the speed limit. engine is still maybe 40 or 50 deg and climbing I am already doing 40mph.



so....I live in NE and oh yeah you betcha I do this when it is 10 deg out as soon as I get in it I drive it. I start the thing so often I am on my 3rd set of starter contacts. and guess what ? NO damage to motor of any significance...it is just getting broken in at 190,000 miles.

today, it still gets better than EPA, in 8000 miles it burns only 2mm of oil
level on the dipstick and passes emissions with tests with ease. it makes all the compression it should, it makes more BHP than it should on 87 octane no engine mods whatsoever.


this is not the 50's anymore with your grandpa-era motors found in high school shop class...


...engine wear schmengine wear just drive the thing immediately it will not do any harm if you plan on keeping a toyota..what ? 11+ years like I have...and it is real in-my-driveway-come-look-at-it-for-yourself results, not some crap from a book

I will say it may not be fair to compare a 5VZFE...the motor is legendary as being absolutely bombproof...same with my A340 tranny
and transfer case

[sbergman27]

127.0.0.1,

My Chevy Sprint (Suzuki 1.0L 3 cyl) has about 350,000 miles on it and has had 3 overhauls. The first one was at 140,000 miles and not due to any sort of wear, but due to a ring which had lost tension. (This engine uses a special low friction ring configuration with 1 oil ring and 1 compression ring, so there is not a lot of margin for error.) Typically, over temperature is the cause of this. But we never determined for sure. Anyway, the engine looked great so we just did rings and bearings. Though the existing bearings actually looked pretty good.

The second overhaul was at 260,000 and was actually due to a mistake made during the first overhaul which ended up causing the timing gear keyway at the front of the crankshaft to wallow out, destroying the crankshaft. We were impressed that at 260,000 we only had about 0.004 - 0.005 cylinder wear. We did rings and bearings again, in addition to replacing the crank. The existing bearings looked remarkably good. And the crank was fine... except for the keyway.

At 318,000 miles it cracked a piston. Probably that 0.004 - 0.005 cylinder wear had increased and fatigued the piston. This time we bored it and went with new pistons. The cam shaft was still in great shape. No action was necessary there.

So that engine went 318,000 miles before a wear condition caused problems. The first 2 overhauls were completely unrelated to wear.

I've always been a fan of Mobile 1, which is what I always attributed the low wear to. But I've never been one to formally warm an engine up. I do try to go easy on them until they are at least partially up to temperature.

-Steve

[Boost Addicted]

is 11 years 190,000 miles considered long enough ?


I 'll say something for engine wear and toyota motors. I operate a 5VZFE. I owned my 4runner from new in Dec 1998 to today, it has 190,000 + miles on it. all it ever got since mile 600 was mobil 1 5-30 every 8000 miles.

(plus timing belts and regular owners manual maint. at the dealer)

I always, ALWAYS just jump right in and drive it, zero or minimal warmup
(only as long as it takes me to adjust whatever I am doing. I get in car and always go immediately.) transmission and engine still run better now than the first 10,000 miles. ya I don't stomp it hard until it is warm but I go the speed limit. engine is still maybe 40 or 50 deg and climbing I am already doing 40mph.



so....I live in NE and oh yeah you betcha I do this when it is 10 deg out as soon as I get in it I drive it. I start the thing so often I am on my 3rd set of starter contacts. and guess what ? NO damage to motor of any significance...it is just getting broken in at 190,000 miles.

today, it still gets better than EPA, in 8000 miles it burns only 2mm of oillevel on the dipstick and passes emissions with tests with ease. it makes all the compression it should, it makes more BHP than it should on 87 octane no engine mods whatsoever.

this is not the 50's anymore with your grandpa-era motors found in high school shop class...


...engine wear schmengine wear just drive the thing immediately it will not do any harm if you plan on keeping a toyota..what ? 11+ years like I have...and it is real in-my-driveway-come-look-at-it-for-yourself results, not some crap from a book

I will say it may not be fair to compare a 5VZFE...the motor is legendary as being absolutely bombproof...same with my A340 tranny
and transfer case

So what you're saying is;

1. You have put your 4Runner on a dyno? Makes MORE BHP than it should? I'd like to see that dyno sheet.

2. You go 8,000 miles before changing your oil... And continue to say you have more EPA horsepower ratings, fuel mileage, etc?... Right. Proof?

3. ''All the compression it should'', yet you don't have a number...

4. No damage to the motor whatsoever? So you must know of Blackstone Labs? May as well post up your progressive stack of every oil analysis you've gotten, along with that dyno sheet.

I'm afraid, my friend, I do not go to high school :smile:, so the cars you speak of, ''grandpa era'', are not a factor. But it made you sound kinda badass I guess :w00t:

Mr. Burgman... I'm seriously convinced you have no idea what you're talking about. I'll take your ignorance to my last post as a sign of you not knowing what aaannny of that actually is (measuring blocks, open/closed loop, etc). Using biiiig sophisticated words doesn't help the fact that you're talking from your ass... And speaking to me as a lesser person isn't gonna go very far. Props for trying though. This is a technical forum, not a pissing contest (:barf:).

And in all seriousness, the two of you should check out mobil 1's formula list...

[127.0.0.1]

So what you're saying is;

1. You have put your 4Runner on a dyno? Makes MORE BHP than it should? I'd like to see that dyno sheet.

2. You go 8,000 miles before changing your oil... And continue to say you have more EPA horsepower ratings, fuel mileage, etc?... Right. Proof?

3. ''All the compression it should'', yet you don't have a number...

4. No damage to the motor whatsoever? So you must know of Blackstone Labs? May as well post up your progressive stack of every oil analysis you've gotten, along with that dyno sheet.

I'm afraid, my friend, I do not go to high school :smile:, so the cars you speak of, ''grandpa era'', are not a factor. But it made you sound kinda badass I guess :w00t:

Mr. Burgman... I'm seriously convinced you have no idea what you're talking about. I'll take your ignorance to my last post as a sign of you not knowing what aaannny of that actually is (measuring blocks, open/closed loop, etc). Using biiiig sophisticated words doesn't help the fact that you're talking from your ass... And speaking to me as a lesser person isn't gonna go very far. Props for trying though. This is a technical forum, not a pissing contest (:barf:).

And in all seriousness, the two of you should check out mobil 1's formula list...

What I said was: NO damage to motor of any significance.

You are preaching 'technical', yet cannot even read correctly. idiot.

I am not saying it will never wear out, I am saying that 11 years of 'start and go immediately' have no real impact
on the thing as a daily driver. you can sit and warm up your car all you want there, Chieftain... all you will
do is waste gas. I can start and go and still have a decent engine at 11 years plus. so there. real world use.

if you race a car that is a different matter entirely. warm ups are needed on race engines.

yes, a warm motor does perform better, but is warmup needed on a daily around town driver. NO.

Whatever. I am not into finite oil or engine analysis on my cars. it is a friggin car, not a nuclear warship. I worry more about steam engines and ceramic impellers in real life.
----
tests were done at 166,340 miles

dyno results were

original dyno run at 2000 miles was
163 hp /234 torque (186 hp adjusted)

166,340 miles run was
168 hp /234 torque (190 hp adjusted)

compression tests at 166,355 miles

1- 178psi
2- 175psi
3- 181psi

4- 188psi
5- 182psi
6- 179psi


all 6 tested on warm engine within 2 minutes

I did these checks because I -was- gonna sell it, but then decided I will never
sell it



Do I know of Blackstone Labs ? sheesh are they any better than Lockheed Martin or Pratt and Whitney at
materials analysis ? want me to send you some NASA stickers ? done with this one. pointless.

[sbergman27]

What I said was: NO damage to motor of any significance.
From my own experience, I would be inclined to say "impressively little" wear. Significance is relative. I tend to keep my cars a very long time. Like 20 and 40 years. (Call me sentimental.) And I dread overhauls. They always seem to result in some sort of complication. And, at the very least, expense... no matter how long the original lasts. It's possible that a certain amount of extra warm up might be beneficial over the very long run. Or... it could be, as you say, insignificant... even in my situation.

It's an interesting topic. Actually "topics", since we have two questions. How do warm ups affect fuel economy under different use scenarios? And how do they affect wear? I was planning on scoping out the easier of the two: fuel economy, this week. But surely Car & Driver, or Consumer Reports, or *someone* with better resources has researched these things.

I just now got back from a long trip and am not too keen on a Google-hunt, sorting out all the credible wheat from the unreliable chaff. But I figured I'd mention.

-Steve

[Boost Addicted]

What I said was: NO damage to motor of any significance.

You are preaching 'technical', yet cannot even read correctly. idiot.

I am not saying it will never wear out, I am saying that 11 years of 'start and go immediately' have no real impact
on the thing as a daily driver. you can sit and warm up your car all you want there, Chieftain... all you will
do is waste gas. I can start and go and still have a decent engine at 11 years plus. so there. real world use.

if you race a car that is a different matter entirely. warm ups are needed on race engines.

yes, a warm motor does perform better, but is warmup needed on a daily around town driver. NO.

Whatever. I am not into finite oil or engine analysis on my cars. it is a friggin car, not a nuclear warship. I worry more about steam engines and ceramic impellers in real life.
----
tests were done at 166,340 miles

dyno results were

original dyno run at 2000 miles was
163 hp /234 torque (186 hp adjusted)

166,340 miles run was
168 hp /234 torque (190 hp adjusted)

compression tests at 166,355 miles

1- 178psi
2- 175psi
3- 181psi

4- 188psi
5- 182psi
6- 179psi


all 6 tested on warm engine within 2 minutes

I did these checks because I -was- gonna sell it, but then decided I will never
sell it



Do I know of Blackstone Labs ? sheesh are they any better than Lockheed Martin or Pratt and Whitney at
materials analysis ? want me to send you some NASA stickers ? done with this one. pointless.

Hahaha yes indeed, I must be an idiot. Well I guess the three of us can agree on one thing... That this is a complete waste of time. So this shall be my final post as well on this thread.

[sbergman27]

Well I guess the three of us can agree on one thing... That this is a complete waste of time. So this shall be my final post as well on this thread.

Boost Addicted,

I don't think that this thread necessarily has to be a waste of time. It could be a good thread or a bad thread, depending upon how the participants handle it. 127.0.0.1 and I tend toward the "just drive it" opinion. You're the fellow carrying the "warm it up first" side. And that's a very reasonable view. But maybe it seems like we're ganging up on you or something. I don't know.

I'm less concerned about right or wrong, or the winning or losing of an argument, than I am with what useful, helpful, or education information comes out of the thread.

I'm wondering... where is the pivot point? How far or little can you push the throttle before wear per mile stops decreasing and starts increasing... or fuel per mile stops decreasing and starts increasing.

-Steve

[Hershey]

we drive from start up if possible . Depends if there's frost , ice , or snow on it .

[Hershey]

The ECO-METER shows good amount of fuel consumption when using the AVERAGE M.P.G. MODE if have to let it defrost thanks to higher idle at start ups and the tranny remains in 3rd gear until car reaches normal operating temperature ( blue light goes out ) :frown: .

[R2D2]

I'm in the drive easy until it warms up crowd. I give it a good 15 sec after I start it then drive very gently and keep the rpms down until it warms up. I clear the ice and snow before I start it. I do use a block heater when it's cold though.

R2

[sbergman27]

and the tranny remains in 3rd gear until car reaches normal operating temperature ( blue light goes out ) :frown: .
Yeah, what's up with that? I Just checked by starting and immediately getting on the 60 MPH expressway and the transmission really does wait that long to kick into 4th. In fact, whereas the light goes out at 130F, the transmission actually waited until more like 139F. Although the temperature was increasing fast enough that those events were actually within about 10 seconds of each other.

I'm wondering what the rationale is for locking out 4th at low engine temperatures. I tend to want the transmission to keep the RPMs *lower* when the engine is cold.

-Steve

[Hershey]

takes ours about 1 mile before it's capable of using overdrive . We drive under 40 m.p.h. to help keep the R.P.M.s down . Also try to leave the heater core on cold to cut off flow of antifreeze to speed up the use of 4th gear . Then turn on heat if needed . Figure less distance for coolant to travel letting the anti-freeze go around engine picking up the heat generated to help with quicker normal temperature operation so blue light disappears and idle drops sooner . Thus saving some fuel . Is a nuisance . :rolleyes:

[Hershey]

since removal of 4 studded tires and warmer weather the 2010 3 door with auto is now getting 40 + miles per gallon . This is VALERO 87 octane ( 10% ethanol ) at 1 click of nozzle at full speed ( always same pump ) , tires set at 36 p.s.i. , 2 people , some headwinds of 25 + m.p.h. , and an average of 50 m.p.h.. Before were lucky to get 36 . Not sure if summer blend has reached our region as of yet , if not can possibly see more of increase :drool: . 1st fill after removal of studded snows the calculated mileage was 44 while the ECO-METER read 41 . Which one should we believe :iono: . That's the most the E.M. has ever been off ( wonder if E.M. was only familiar with the studded snows ? ) . Before the E.M. has been only off by less than .5 below the calculated mileage . Either way I'll take it . 44 be nicer . Since the 2nd fill the car lost the 1st bar at 80.1 miles and is averaging 41.1 on the E.M..

[sbergman27]

Also try to leave the heater core on cold to cut off flow of antifreeze to speed up the use of 4th gear . Then turn on heat if needed .
Note that this practice makes a *substantial* difference. Even in relatively mild winter weather, say 50F, the Yaris is unable to maintain a coolant temperature of more than about 155F at idle with the heater on high. It's 30F here right now and I just got back from a trip to Walmart. I know from experience that with the heater off, the engine reaches 130F and the "cool" light goes off before I get to the Walmart parking lot. This morning, I left the heater on high. It didn't hit 130F until I was almost *back home* on the return trip. And when I pulled into my parking space, the temp was 136F. That's still 4 degrees shy of when the transmission would have made 4th gear and converter locking available. (And the interior wasn't exactly toasty yet.)

The heater on the Yaris can accurately be considered an auxiliary radiator.

-Steve

[Hershey]

:w00t: . Literally :biggrin: .

[BailOut]

All the more reason to use a grille block in the cold months. I just took mine back out last weekend. I'll put it back in sometime in November or December.

[sbergman27]

All the more reason to use a grille block in the cold months. I just took mine back out last weekend. I'll put it back in sometime in November or December.
There was a post on teamswift.net some time back from a guy who lived in (I think) Alaska... or Antarctica... or somewhere. He posted an interesting HowTo on lining the bottom side of the hood of his Geo Metro with a heat reflective blanket with a layer of insulation bonded to the back of it. The idea being to reflect any radiant heat back onto the engine, while providing extra insulation, as well.

As you know, I'm a sort of show-me-the-data kind of guy... so I'm not actually advocating this. But it is, at least, an interesting idea. Especially for perpetually cold climates. I assume that he already used a grille block.

Funny... those fake louvres we see on some cars as decorations (Hi 1979 Lincoln Mark V! I'm thinking of you!) used to actually function, back in the day. The driver had a pull-knob to close them to facilitate warm up. Then again, the driver also had a choke pull-knob and an ignition timing pull-knob. Always remember to pull both of those before trying to start the car. Failing to retard the timing could actually be deadly to the person turning the starting crank.[1] But that issue was a bit earlier, back in the 1900s and 1910s. It was a fellow whose friend was killed in just such a timing/crank accident who invented the electric starter which Cadillac introduced in 1912.

-Steve

[1] Consider what happens when the timing is advanced before TDC.

[sbergman27]

I'm in the drive easy until it warms up crowd.
Me too. This morning, I did run a test to get an idea how much (or little) fuel it actually takes to warm the engine to 128F (when the "Cool" light goes off), and to 140F, when the automatic transmission makes 4th gear and torque converter lock-up available. I found the answer to be a bit surprising. At an ambient temperature of 43F, it's only 0.03 gallons in both cases. (Scangauge doesn't go beyond 0.01 gal precision.) The "Cool" light went off just as the readout clicked over to 0.03. This is significantly less than I would have guessed.

-Steve

[Loren]

Sounds insignificant when you put it that way. And for someone who puts a lot of miles on their car every day, it probably is.

My typical trip is 3-5 miles. At 40 mpg, that's an average of about .10 gallons per trip.

If I let the car sit and warm up before every trip, I'd use 30% more fuel!!!

(even if you only count the .03 gallons on the initial start-up, it still adds up to 15% of my total fuel usage on a typical day)

Needless to say, I'm in the "drive it easy until it warms up" contingent. I get in the car, buckle my seatbelt, put the transmission in gear (manual trans), release the handbrake and check my mirrors all before turning the key. As soon as the engine is started I'm letting the clutch out and backing out of my driveway!

Unless the air temp is fairly cool (below 60-65 degrees), the "cool" light is usually off after the 3rd stop sign in my neighborhood, just before I turn onto the main road.

[sbergman27]

Sounds insignificant when you put it that way. And for someone who puts a lot of miles on their car every day, it probably is. My typical trip is 3-5 miles. At 40 mpg, that's an average of about .10 gallons per trip.

Yes, indeed. I'm not necessarily *prescribing* anything. My usage is substantially skewed towards longs trips where I get in the car at 6 AM in Alamogordo, New Mexico, and get out of the car, not knowing what time it is, in "What Town Was This, Again", Montana. No one even bothered to find out what the warm up fuel consumption was before having a back and forth discussion of the relative merits of warming up the car earlier in this thread.

I'd just like to see more quantitative discussions.

City driving *is* admittedly a lot messier, though.

-Steve

[sbergman27]

My typical trip is 3-5 miles. At 40 mpg, that's an average of about .10 gallons per trip. If I let the car sit and warm up before every trip, I'd use 30% more fuel!!!
No. Because even driving gently, you'd be using a lot more fuel than the tiny sip the engine takes at idle. And that additional fuel would be used under cold conditions in which the engine would be consuming significantly more fuel per horsepower-second than it would if it had been warmed up (investing that 0.03 gal of fuel) first.

My *intuition* agrees with you. But my intuition could be as wrong as yours. We need to test experimentally. (My bad. I haven't gotten to it.) Otherwise, we're no better scientists than was Aristotle.

-Steve

[Loren]

I get what you're saying. Potentially, the fuel used to warm-up plus the first mile or so of driving a WARMED UP engine could add up to less fuel usage than driving a cold engine for a mile or so. Maybe in some super-cold climate this might be possible. I can tell you from my observations in MY climate (Florida, almost always above 60 degrees) using a ScanGauge that eliminating the warm-up gives me better results. I don't need to quantify it more than that for my own purposes.

I'm not a "pure numbers" guy. I understand the physics and usually have a grasp on the math involved, but I "live" the philosophy derived from it.

[sbergman27]

I can tell you from my observations in MY climate (Florida, almost always above 60 degrees) using a ScanGauge that eliminating the warm-up gives me better results.
You know what? If your State weren't so damned far away, I'd likely be there every weekend from November through March.

A simple Golden Girls episode on this difficult and thorny social issue would have been nice. I'd love to have seen Betty White trying to work the ScanGauge...

:-)

-Steve

[rene0023]

Very useful information...

[Chaldon]

jeeze, 11 pages!!! I'll have to take a break and come back...

[galactic7gecko]

This is all fascinating info. I have changed my driving habits/maintenance somewhat since discovering this thread. I have a couple questions though. My record MPG is only 36 and this was taking it slow. I have a 3 dr hatchback AT, tires are at 36 PSI (maximum recommended by manufacturer), I use the recommended oil, I just ordered a scan gauge II. I would be ecstatic just to break 40 MPG! I coast whenever possible and shift to neutral whenever possible. I hope the Scan Gauge guide me.

Does anybody have any other recommendations or do I just not have an efficient version of the Yaris!?!?

Thanks!

[why?]

This is all fascinating info. I have changed my driving habits/maintenance somewhat since discovering this thread. I have a couple questions though. My record MPG is only 36 and this was taking it slow. I have a 3 dr hatchback AT, tires are at 36 PSI (maximum recommended by manufacturer), I use the recommended oil, I just ordered a scan gauge II. I would be ecstatic just to break 40 MPG! I coast whenever possible and shift to neutral whenever possible. I hope the Scan Gauge guide me.

Does anybody have any other recommendations or do I just not have an efficient version of the Yaris!?!?

Thanks!

Slow down. Seriously, if you think you are driving like your grandmother, you are prolly going too fast. And pretend their is a grenade under the pedals. The less you use them, and the softer you press them, the better your gas mileage will be.

[KrazyDawg]

This is all fascinating info. I have changed my driving habits/maintenance somewhat since discovering this thread. I have a couple questions though. My record MPG is only 36 and this was taking it slow. I have a 3 dr hatchback AT, tires are at 36 PSI (maximum recommended by manufacturer), I use the recommended oil, I just ordered a scan gauge II. I would be ecstatic just to break 40 MPG! I coast whenever possible and shift to neutral whenever possible. I hope the Scan Gauge guide me.

Does anybody have any other recommendations or do I just not have an efficient version of the Yaris!?!?

Thanks!
What's your commute like? Is it mostly highway or city? Is the terrain generally flat or do you have a lot of hills? What's the average temperature when you're driving? These are other factors that affect your MPG but the biggest thing is driving.

[galactic7gecko]

My commute is around 20 miles round trip its mostly flat except for the freeway where it tends to get a little hilly with the exits and ramps and all. The avg temperature of where I drive is around 90 is this beneficial?.. Sunny Corpus Christi, TX... it always seems to be hot! The highest mpg I've managed to achieve is 36 mpg is this because I have an automatic transmission? Thanks for the replies KrazyDawg and Why? I just installed my SGII and I'm awaiting to see how this tank goes. I'm really hoping to break 40, any other words of wisdom?

[why?]

so you probably use your a/c all the time, that doesn't help, but i wouldn't turn it off either.

The SG2 is a great thing to have. Use it, and it will help you get better gas mileage.

[Nahtorious]

Sorry if i've been living under a rock, but what's an SG2?

[STC]

Sorry if i've been living under a rock, but what's an SG2?

http://www.scangauge.com/

Cheers! :smile:

[Nahtorious]

http://www.scangauge.com/

Cheers! :smile:

Oh...that's wicked. i'm gonna have to pick one of those up.
Thanks man.

[Bizlibati]

I'm I could increase one thing in regards to the particular exhaust strain problem. I will be today about my own next pair of auto tires about my own '99 Corolla. This kind of established will be the same for the established I needed earlier. These kinds of auto tires are usually Kumho 795 Vacationing A/S. For your initial established, My partner and i preserved the particular recommened strain (this could be the strain outlined around the driver's door) which can be 25 PSI. These kinds of auto tires donned as a result of the particular use cafes with 55K a long way and also My partner and i averaged thirty five MPG above this period (roughly 90% interstate and also 10% metropolis driving). Once i obtained the next established, the particular exhaust person My partner and i obtained these coming from recommended My partner and i work these with 5 PSI on the advised strain. This individual mentioned not merely would certainly my own miles increase, yet thus would certainly treadwear, managing, and also path noises. This individual has been proper. My partner and i will have concerning 50K

[KentSzabo]

Two fill ups ago I had the first oil change and had them put synthetic 0-20 in my 2012 Yaris. Since then on the past two tankfuls I got 43.4 and 43.2 MPG.
In addition to synthetic oil I run 40 lbs of pressure in the tires.

[KentSzabo]

I am on my second synthetic oil change with over 10000 miles on it and at the last fill up I got a calculated 44.4 MPG, awesome.

[Billstein]

Here is something interesting I found by accident, When I first got the car I installed a cold air to help My MPG in 2007(I was at the most getting 33 MPG combined) I changed back to stock in 2012 and my MPG increased 6 + miles per gallon..Whaaa Who..I might add I drive 75 to 80 miles an hour on freeway, stock tires now with max air 50 lbs..

[Spidermandud]

That is interesting. Perhaps the CAI helped your foot slow down, so now that you moved back to stock it's natural for you to not stress it as much? Not sure :l

Did you notice much difference reverting?

[vincentg]

Does it make much difference if i gas up at night than throughout the day? and i heard from a good friend of mine that if you gas up notice that there are 2 - 3 types of levels in the nozzle of the gas pump. you only put in in the first level. (or the slowest pump) as to get more gasoline :) is this true? :)

[charles nelson]

I found that my driving follows the 'Popular Mechanics Fuel Economy' advice. Buy 91% (non-ethanol) gas if price is less than 120% of ethanol gas (has more energy per gallon),
watch upcoming signal lights to sync with green before you have to slow down or stop, if you have auto-trans...accelerate smoothly and quickly to get transmission into higher efficiency upper gears, use A/C if speed is above 30 mph.

[RickSWEF]

Does it make much difference if i gas up at night than throughout the day? and i heard from a good friend of mine that if you gas up notice that there are 2 - 3 types of levels in the nozzle of the gas pump. you only put in in the first level. (or the slowest pump) as to get more gasoline :) is this true? :)

I don't think it matters much what time of day you fill up. However, a slower pump will allow more air to escape your tank when filling up. Trapped air will cause the fuel to come up the filler tube and trigger the automatic shutoff on the pump nozzle. Some people think the tank is full when the nozzle clicks off and just puts the nozzle away without topping off. A slower pump will allow more fuel to enter the tank before the nozzle clicks off, so you end up with a fuller tank. If you're one who tops the tank off, none of this really matters much.

My '08 Yaris gets 36mpg during the winter months and 40mpg in the summer. I think the colder temps have something to do with this, but I also found out that gas stations have a summer fuel mix and a cheaper winter fuel mix. The different mixtures and the temps combined probably cause the difference in mpg. Of course, I'm not a slow poke when on the highway, so I could get better mpg if I tried.

[charles nelson]

Popular Mechanics Mag tested driving habits and mpg. They found that with an automatic transmission they got better mileage if they accelerated quickly but then tried to coast to a stop. Going faster more quickly put the transmission into the higher more efficient gears more quickly. Slow acceleration kept the cars in the lower mpg range longer.

[STC]

Popular Mechanics Mag tested driving habits and mpg. They found that with an automatic transmission they got better mileage if they accelerated quickly but then tried to coast to a stop. Going faster more quickly put the transmission into the higher more efficient gears more quickly. Slow acceleration kept the cars in the lower mpg range longer.

Not for manuals. You control your RPM shifts.

Cheers! :smile:

[screenprintr]

I'm really glad my Yaris gets 34 mpg semi around town and highway. However, I had stopping for gas every 3 or 4 days.

Why didn't they think about a slightly bigger tank? What's up with that?

[matti]

I also thought a bigger tank would be nice. Certainly not a deal breaker, though.

[b20vteg]

anyone notice lower mpg now that it's colder? why is that? :S

[cmdjd]

anyone notice lower mpg now that it's colder? why is that? :S
Richer fuel/air ratio until fully warmed.

[cmdjd]

I'm really glad my Yaris gets 34 mpg semi around town and highway. However, I had stopping for gas every 3 or 4 days.

Why didn't they think about a slightly bigger tank? What's up with that?
Bigger tank, more gallons, more weight, lower fuel economy when full.

[2o6]

anyone notice lower mpg now that it's colder? why is that? :S

Depending on where you live, most gas stations have switched to a winter blend of gas, which burns quicker.

[Amdkt7]

There are a lot of factors relating to poor economy in cold weather. Much of it is increased friction from lubricants, plus winter blend gas, and often colder operating engine temps. A hotter engine is usually more fuel efficient (not if the ECU is backing off timing to prevent knock).

[tooter]

anyone notice lower mpg now that it's colder? why is that? :S

I get exactly the same effect on my Yaris as with my motorcycle. The bike averages 66 in Winter and 70+ in the Summer.

I got my Yaris at the end of April which was mild Spring into hot summer weather and it's 2,000 mile average was 36.5 mpg.

Then I installed the tooter manifold and the next 1,100 hot Summer weather into milder Fall average was 38.3.

Now the latest 800 mile cold weather Winter average (also with the tooter) is 37.2.

So I can't wait for more than a year to pass so that I can get comparative mileage averages under similar seasonal weather conditions.

[screenprintr]

What happens when you turn on the Air conditioning? My car barely moved once I turned on the Air today. Yikes!

[Amdkt7]

Huber Optic film, all the way around the glass. Did not need air today, I know in the past I would have! I did use air on a trip with a load of people (full car) because of the humidity. It did not hurt my mileage much. 38 mpg, 70 mph much of the trip.

[peewee1]

I got tired of hypermiling, tired of the hard ride,tired of coasting down hills. So I lowered the air in my tires to 30 lbs, nolonger do any coasting. I just driver smarter and slower ( under 58 mph). No jack-rabbits and feather the gas pedal,and my mpg has gone from 36 to 41 mpg. The real answer to good mpg is TAKE IT EASY.

[TLyttle]

Bump. My Yaris is 6 years old now, so I thought I would do a FE check, pleasantly surprised at 5.1L/100km, city and highway. Even now, that is a nice number, and the fact that I have been getting that for all this time makes this a very efficient vehicle!

[Amdkt7]

Some short trips, or trips with to many stop signs kills my mileage to the low 40's (mpg). Often get over 50 mpg on my trips to and from work. I sometimes can eek out 60 mpg. I use pulse and glide a lot. I have been experimenting with staying in lower gears while accelerating (up to 4k RPM), my trip average does not seem to suffer. Once I reach my target speed I'm in 5th, or coasting as soon as possible. So, it does not seem to matter much how you pulse, low rpm, or mid rpm, the overall mpg does not seem to be effected. The higher rpms gets you up to speed much faster even though the instant mpg is worse, the overall mpg is about the same. Otherwise, highest gear possible is the way to cruise.

When I bought the car I was only hoping for high 30's. What a great car!

[charles nelson]

Most modern cars get better mileage using AC with the windows closed at typical highway speeds. Slower...better mpg with the windows open and the AC off. At higher speeds, the open windows cause increased drag. Usually your car's velocity varies quite a lot at lower speeds...urban stop and go type. And the engine has to rev higher to speed up and run the A/C. So for best mpg, open windows at slower speeds and A/C when cruising down a highway.
At highway speeds and the windows open, I get a very loud low frequency thumping from air pulsing into the vehicle. With the windows closed, there is very little air noise. Noise is wasted energy. Some new cars now have air speed controlled louvers in front of the radiator to deflect and smooth the air flow over the front.

[Amdkt7]

A lot of hyper-millers have found that AC on anytime is worse then having the windows down.

I coast down the same hill every day and have not been able to detect any difference in the coast with the windows up or down (though I usually only roll down one).

It may vary from car to car. Some cars may have a less efficient unit that really hogs the power.

[bigdoglover]

just filled up yesterday and i manually check my mpg every tank. with the hot weather and using a/c the last week my yaris only got 34 mpg. i normally get 38 mpg without even trying so using the a/c really sucks the mpg in my yaris. i need a more fuel efficient car but this one is paid for. it just was too hot not to use the a/c

[Amdkt7]

just filled up yesterday and i manually check my mpg every tank. with the hot weather and using a/c the last week my yaris only got 34 mpg. i normally get 38 mpg without even trying so using the a/c really sucks the mpg in my yaris. i need a more fuel efficient car but this one is paid for. it just was too hot not to use the a/c

I guess you do a lot of city driving? Only a hybrid is going to do better I think. Are you driving an automatic? With a stickshift you can pulse and glide, even in traffic to some extent. Very short pulses in lower gears, then coast a little, pulse again.. one can maintain pretty much the same speed as the traffic.

However, on trips to go pick up my kids on that side of town I seldom can wring out 40 MPG, even doing all of that. The rest of the time I usually get over 50 mpg on any trip over 10 miles. Short trips always suck.

[JimKellyfan]

Good post, nice read. I got 38 mpg (new owner/one month-ish) while doing 80-85 down to st pete and 36 mpg / uphill on way back. Coming off a caprice wagon with an LT1 engine, I am lovin the 38 @ 80-85 mph. I am going to put a TRD high flow filter in, for the increased flow potential, HP gain potential and improved performance/response. However, it is a myth that any high flow or even just new air filters provide better fuel mileage in anything that doesn't have a carburetor. FYI. New air filter will protect your engine and if it is fuel injected, will provide better response, not mileage. This is average user, hyper-miler, well, they get good mileage anyway. Good job, 50 plus, cool. I am also against the start stop feature, as every time you use your starter is one less time you can use it again. If doing this, just get a Prius and enjoy the drive instead. Me, I was afraid of the many Prius failures, and know these cars to be good and dependable. (The Yarii). everything else in the read great, make sure to read the tire sidewall before bumping to 50 psi, as the majority of the market on tires is 44 psi max or some less 35 psi, and some at 51 psi, but more rare. Michelin has a mileage tire for us, but up a size or to a 16 inch and get the handler for performance hounds, the Pilot Sport AS3's.

[frog13]

Folks get way too hung-up on MPG,they drive themselves "crazy".From the first page: Turning off your engine at all of those intervals is ridiculous,keep your engine in a good state of tune and be done with it.

[Shroomster]

How are people getting 38mpg?
are you guys looking at instant mpg, looking at your scan gauge, or are you calculating your per tank mpg?
Somehow skewing the numbers?

38 psi in the tires
a/c on most of the time
I drive on average 25 miles one way to work
70-80mph
I only see 32-33 mpg per tank
Average 326 miles on 10 gallons
I fill the tank completely every time

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/7a8atugy.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/yne4yhe7.jpg

This is summary of every fill up (partial and full) since owning my '14


Sent from my metallic purple honami

[nookandcrannycar]

70-80mph


I would guess that this is the biggest issue. I usually drive 55-62 MPH in the slow lane. My last tank = just over 42.5 MPG, and the current tank will surpass that rate.

[Rigaud]

Best economy is 50mph and below.

[Shroomster]

I would guess that this is the biggest issue. I usually drive 55-62 MPH in the slow lane. My last tank = just over 42.5 MPG, and the current tank will surpass that rate.

That's what I thought too, but looking through the thread, all these people who claim to red line the car or drive faster than that, are getting better mpg than me...

Sent from my metallic purple honami

[nookandcrannycar]

That's what I thought too, but looking through the thread, all these people who claim to red line the car or drive faster than that, are getting better mpg than me...

Sent from my metallic purple honami

The ones I saw that mention your lowest speed or above :

Page 3 -- member lgcharlot: 37 MPG at 70 MPH for a couple of California to British Columbia road trips (member = a 4 post wonder)

Page 4 -- member Maypo mentions peak fuel economy was 39 MPG at 75 MPH -- closer attention reveals he is talking about a Fiat X1/9 (who knows why he is mentioning an X 1/9 :rolleyes: (member = a 1 post wonder))

page 12 -- member Bilstein mentions 39 MPG at 75-80 MPH...but his tire pressure is at 50 PSI.

page 13 -- member Amdkt7 mentions 38 MPG at 70 MPH with a full load of people. The nature of all of his posts....overall, the hills probably help a bit, but I think he just has a stellar focus re his driving habits.

page 14 -- JimKellyfan -- 38 MPG at 80-85 MPH....aided (I imagine) by the downhill part of the trek (he uses 'uphill' in reference to the return)

side note: Page 2 -- Keesue's reply to Nigal -- set tires to 32 PSI and MPG improved....same thing happened to me when I did same (down from 38 PSI for me) sometime after last summer. In the past, PSI increase = MPG increase in my experience.

[Shroomster]

I don't see how I could get another 4-5 mpg... Im not going to be able to decrease speed (Florida drivers are bad) and I'm pretty sure temp and humidity are factors, and even if I turn ac off, it will be negligible at highway speeds....

Sent from my metallic purple honami

[Rigaud]

My best I posted in "Fuelly" is 38mpg and my worse 30mpg. Cold damp weather this spring and on winter tires. I only posted twice for two fill ups. Got my summer wheels on and doing short 5 miles return trips around town plus some 35 miles trips on the highway but nothing under 65mph on highway. My very best this winter was 40mpg on a road trip, temps 20f hardly any wind. Next road trip I'll see how much better I'll do especially once I install a cruise control on it.

[marauder]

In my area with my driving conditions I'm seeing good numbers, but still early in my miles tracked and learning my vehicle. I will be picking up lighter wheels and tires and lowering a bit which I hope will get me close to 50mpg average. I never run a/c, typically just driver window down getting a left arm suntan.

I am only using DFCO and keeping speeds around 60 when possible, otherwise if I'm going faster I try to stay 5-6 car lengths behind the car ahead to reduce some of the drag.

Considering rigging up an active grille block shutter system when I have time to study how the new cars are doing it, maybe harvest the parts off a wrecked car or something so I can do it on the cheap.

Will be picking up a scangauge soon for some live data.

[why?]

Honestly, you aren't driving far enough to get really great gas mileage. And I lived in Poinciana for a few years, florida drivers are not that bad. They can go around you just as well as any other driver.

But the a/c hurts gas mileage, your speed will kill gas mileage, some run much more tire pressure.

I average a little above 39 mpg, as calculated on fuelly.

http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/181752.png (http://www.fuelly.com/driver/whyinsanity/yaris)

Some tips? Use the gas pedal like it is a nuclear bomb that will destroy the world. Look ahead and plan to cruise to a stop so you never have to hit the brakes.

If you have to use a/c, and down in Orlando I can't blame you, turn it off and on so it won't suck up as much gas. If you are on interior air re circulation you can go a few minutes with the a/c off. Also buy and apply the darkest tint you possibly can, legally.

I go as slow as I possibly can. I usually do not exceed 50. On highways I go at maximum 5 miles below the speed limit. I try to stay near 50 if at all possible.

I generally do not drive long trips, but commuting 50+ miles 1 way makes getting great gas mileage really easy, my best tank of gas was 47 mpg when I had to drive over an hour each way every day for two weeks.

How are people getting 38mpg?
are you guys looking at instant mpg, looking at your scan gauge, or are you calculating your per tank mpg?
Somehow skewing the numbers?

38 psi in the tires
a/c on most of the time
I drive on average 25 miles one way to work
70-80mph
I only see 32-33 mpg per tank
Average 326 miles on 10 gallons
I fill the tank completely every time

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/7a8atugy.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/yne4yhe7.jpg

This is summary of every fill up (partial and full) since owning my '14


Sent from my metallic purple honami

[nookandcrannycar]

I lived in Poinciana for a few years, florida drivers are not that bad. They can go around you just as well as any other driver.

I haven't lived in Florida, as Shroomster does and you did, but I've probably spent more time there over the last 8 years than in any state but Texas and California, and I've been all over the state. In my experience, your statement above is definitely true re Shroomster's area (the Orlando area). Re my experiences, if Shroomster lived generally anywhere south of an imaginary line drawn between Bradenton and Fort Pierce, I could see what he's saying in his last post being the case (especially on I-75 between Bradenton and the western edge of Alligator Alley)....but the craziness could have finally migrated up his way.

I agree with all of your suggestions (in other parts of your post) re improving MPG.

[YHWilliam09]

How are people getting 38mpg?
are you guys looking at instant mpg, looking at your scan gauge, or are you calculating your per tank mpg?
Somehow skewing the numbers?

38 psi in the tires
a/c on most of the time
I drive on average 25 miles one way to work
70-80mph
I only see 32-33 mpg per tank
Average 326 miles on 10 gallons
I fill the tank completely every time

I work a pizza delivery job in suburbia and average right around 40 mpg. There are many small things that add up to help like tire psi, using a ScanGauge, etc., but the biggest factor in increasing your gas mileage is your driving style.

If you want to get up near 40 mpg, you'll need to learn and use many hypermiling techniques and start using a gauge that shows your instant mpg. Some of the techniques can be a burden if you don't want to deal with other drivers getting mad at you, but there are many you can use that won't affect anybody else on the road more than what's normal. Read these two articles, and they should help you quite a bit:

100+ Hypermiling Tips (http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hypermiling-driving-tips-ecodriving.php)

Beating the EPA - The Why’s and How to Hypermile (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1510)

[Shroomster]

So you all are getting 400+ miles per tank? Crazy......

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