1NZFE - the most boring engine?

[SlowVitzRS]

I currently drive a JDM 2005 Toyota Vitz RS 5-speed manual as my daily driver.
I find it hating more and more every day I drive it :(.
There will be a point where whatever the fuel savings over my other car will not be worth from mental health point of view.

Scroll down for the actual questions if too lazy to read ;).

A bit of my car back ground:
Due to my previous jobs I have driven hundreds of make/models, and many more individual cars.

I used to be hardcore Toyota fan, and personally owned couple of GT4s (still have my ST165, sold my ST205), couple of 4AGE powered vehicles (AE91 and AE101), also had 4AGZE AE101 for short time, some other odd balls passed through my hands like MTEU, 1GFE, 4/5AFE, 4EFTE, 5EFHE, 3/4SFE, 1ZZFE, 2ZZGE, 2AZFE powered cars. So I have huge preconceptions and bias about what to expect from Toyota engine.
Currently there two 1NZFE Vitz RS in the family: CVT and manual.


Before you go "Cool story Bro", I am going back to the problem at hand:

1NZFE - is the most boring engine I ever owned. The manual transmission actually brings out the all downsides of this engine. The CVT one actually feels better than the manual one (blasphemy!).

It has power curve of a diesel without the low end torque. It feels very asthmatic. No, this is not confined to this particular car. It feels that Toyota designed this engine to be coupled with a CVT or hybrid transmission.

The factory 1NZFE on a manual transmission equipped car comes with really dull throttle map. From my experiments the throttle response is identical on CVT and manual equipped cars.

I have addressed the throttle response by switching throttle body from a 1ZZFE. Now throttle response is excellent.

Another issue is the plastic manifold completely ruins the induction noise. I have addressed the restricting snorkel, which slightly improved top-end, and under high load there is a small hint of a typical twincam noise (listen to 4AGE, 2ZZGE or any Honda twin cam engine), but because of crappy econobox intake manifold it is ruined.

The transmission gear ratios are too high for it, it feels like the gear ratio is more suitable for something that revs to 7000+ rpm (in fact I think it is very close to AE101 4AGE 20v). For such low rev limiter that 1NZFE comes with, the gear ratios should have been much closer.

Why did Toyota put "RS" badge on it is beyond me, it is actually same performance as non-RS 1NZFE powered Vitz.

Even 2AZFE powered Camry that I had "pleasure" of renting and putting about 6000kms on it, was more fun to drive.

At this stage I am looking at mild cams, and fabricating intake manifold. I am not actually after raw performance (I own couple of cars that make 200+ Kw at the four wheels), I am after a fun pocket rocket that I can enjoy driving.

Any ideas what could be done to improve the power curve (read: move torque peak higher in RPM range) without changing the ECU?
I would love to have it sound at least decent (iconic twincam induction noise), without resorting to after-market filters.

Does anyone know where to get mild cams that will work with stock ECU, and aluminium intake manifold that works with 4 bolt throttle body (I only seen 3 bolt version)?

[m.flores.0928]

The issue with this motor is there is basically no aftermarket support. Any engine, I repeat, ANY engine, can be made fun and powerful... with enough money. Key word. Money. That's the thing. Anyone can build up the NZ 1.5 if they really wanted to. It's not impossible. Basically all piston engines are fundamentally identical and can all be made into solid powerhouses.

But why would anyone want to do that when you can find a comparable Honda motor (for example) and build it up easier and cheaper with more options?

(By "comparable", I mean simply and only in terms of physical size and displacement)


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[Jason@SportsCar]

I currently drive a JDM 2005 Toyota Vitz RS 5-speed manual as my daily driver.
I find it hating more and more every day I drive it :(.
There will be a point where whatever the fuel savings over my other car will not be worth from mental health point of view.

Scroll down for the actual questions if too lazy to read ;).

A bit of my car back ground:
Due to my previous jobs I have driven hundreds of make/models, and many more individual cars.

I used to be hardcore Toyota fan, and personally owned couple of GT4s (still have my ST165, sold my ST205), couple of 4AGE powered vehicles (AE91 and AE101), also had 4AGZE AE101 for short time, some other odd balls passed through my hands like MTEU, 1GFE, 4/5AFE, 4EFTE, 5EFHE, 3/4SFE, 1ZZFE, 2ZZGE, 2AZFE powered cars. So I have huge preconceptions and bias about what to expect from Toyota engine.
Currently there two 1NZFE Vitz RS in the family: CVT and manual.


Before you go "Cool story Bro", I am going back to the problem at hand:

1NZFE - is the most boring engine I ever owned. The manual transmission actually brings out the all downsides of this engine. The CVT one actually feels better than the manual one (blasphemy!).

It has power curve of a diesel without the low end torque. It feels very asthmatic. No, this is not confined to this particular car. It feels that Toyota designed this engine to be coupled with a CVT or hybrid transmission.

The factory 1NZFE on a manual transmission equipped car comes with really dull throttle map. From my experiments the throttle response is identical on CVT and manual equipped cars.

I have addressed the throttle response by switching throttle body from a 1ZZFE. Now throttle response is excellent.

Another issue is the plastic manifold completely ruins the induction noise. I have addressed the restricting snorkel, which slightly improved top-end, and under high load there is a small hint of a typical twincam noise (listen to 4AGE, 2ZZGE or any Honda twin cam engine), but because of crappy econobox intake manifold it is ruined.

The transmission gear ratios are too high for it, it feels like the gear ratio is more suitable for something that revs to 7000+ rpm (in fact I think it is very close to AE101 4AGE 20v). For such low rev limiter that 1NZFE comes with, the gear ratios should have been much closer.

Why did Toyota put "RS" badge on it is beyond me, it is actually same performance as non-RS 1NZFE powered Vitz.

Even 2AZFE powered Camry that I had "pleasure" of renting and putting about 6000kms on it, was more fun to drive.

At this stage I am looking at mild cams, and fabricating intake manifold. I am not actually after raw performance (I own couple of cars that make 200+ Kw at the four wheels), I am after a fun pocket rocket that I can enjoy driving.

Any ideas what could be done to improve the power curve (read: move torque peak higher in RPM range) without changing the ECU?
I would love to have it sound at least decent (iconic twincam induction noise), without resorting to after-market filters.

Does anyone know where to get mild cams that will work with stock ECU, and aluminium intake manifold that works with 4 bolt throttle body (I only seen 3 bolt version)?

JUN offers cams. If you want to wake it up you really need an ECU, there is more power in there than the bolt-ons will get you.

[NYC-SE]

I specifically bought my Yaris because of the 1NZ-FE. I thoroughly researched it and it is one of the most reliable engines out there. Boredom is vastly underrated.

Maybe a Yaris is the wrong car for you.

[m.flores.0928]

I specifically bought my Yaris because of the 1NZ-FE. I thoroughly researched it and it is one of the most reliable engines out there. Boredom is vastly underrated.

Maybe a Yaris is the wrong car for you.



^^^^^^^ Same. Same. Same. Simplicity, reliability, inexpensive.


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[hotracer_05]

I think you can use a 1zz intake manifold as well. that or try finding a weapon r or golden eagle one

[Kalispel]

My 1NZ-FE w/5-spd manual feels fine & peppy for what it is (& has bulletproof reliability, along with its venerable drivetrain). It does everything I need/want it to do on my daily 61 mile round-trip commute Mon-Fri, without complaint, and I have been averaging 41.4 MPG over the last 2.5+ years as a bonus. If you want a 'hot hatch' sports/performance-car, then you bought the wrong car.

[tmontague]

I do agree with the OP on this thread. The Yaris is a purpose built machine, performance is last on that list. The main focus being low end torque to keep the revs low and fuel economy high as a grocery getter. It does this well but at the cost of top end, and it leads to a dull drive.

You can slap all of the bolt ons you want to a 1nz but unless you do a full on build with a custom tune like Jason has, it will still fall flat on its face above 5.5k rpm. I had full bolt ons on my 1nz I/H/E plus golden eagle intake manifold and above 5.5k rpm it stopped pulling hard.

This is where the 2zr comes in, much better area under the curve and with dual vvt-i and pulls much harder to redline.

[m.flores.0928]

I do agree with the OP on this thread. The Yaris is a purpose built machine, performance is last on that list. The main focus being low end torque to keep the revs low and fuel economy high as a grocery getter. It does this well but at the cost of top end, and it leads to a dull drive.

You can slap all of the bolt ons you want to a 1nz but unless you do a full on build with a custom tune like Jason has, it will still fall flat on its face above 5.5k rpm. I had full bolt ons on my 1nz I/H/E plus golden eagle intake manifold and above 5.5k rpm it stopped pulling hard.

This is where the 2zr comes in, much better area under the curve and with dual vvt-i and pulls much harder to redline.



Someday I'll get that 2ZR swap going.


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[tmontague]

Someday I'll get that 2ZR swap going.

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:thumbup:
If you look at the whp numbers Tom has posted on his build you'll realize with mild bolt ons the 2zr can net you the equivalent of a 155-165 hp factory car all with the reliability of an Toyota and on a very light chassis

You look at cars advertised at 200 hp such as the gt86 but are only posting 165 whp on a dyno...

[m.flores.0928]

:thumbup:

If you look at the whp numbers Tom has posted on his build you'll realize with mild bolt ons the 2zr can net you the equivalent of a 155-165 hp factory car all with the reliability of an Toyota and on a very light chassis



You look at cars advertised at 200 hp such as the gt86 but are only posting 165 whp on a dyno...



Well they all advertise crank hp and not wheel hp. Of course 200 crank hp will throw down 165 hp on a (chassis) dyno


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[tmontague]

My point being, what Tom's 2zr is putting down on the dyno being whp is comparable to heavier cars putting down slightly higher hp from factory that a lot of people go crazy about.

[m.flores.0928]

My point being, what Tom's 2zr is putting down on the dyno being whp is comparable to heavier cars putting down slightly higher hp from factory that a lot of people go crazy about.



1000% I get you. Pretty simple swap too, as far as motor swaps go!


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[deng]

I wish I had a C56 transmission.

[miiser]

1NR-FE is the most boring engine imo. It’s an eu spec engine 1.33 cc with 101 hp.
But there is no aftermarket support for this engine. Plus it’s dual vvti so it’s really hard to mess with this engine’s configuration due to problems that might occur with the dual variable valve timing


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[tmontague]

1000% I get you. Pretty simple swap too, as far as motor swaps go!


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It definitely is, especially with all the info on this forum regarding the swap!

[thebarber]

supercharger wakes it up.

my blitz supercharged 2007 yaris with intake, header, 2.25" exhaust vs naturally aspirated with just intake and exhaust (no header).

powerband never bothered me naturally aspirated. if you want better gearing, run a gen1 scion xb final drive....

https://i.imgur.com/uOYam4s.jpg

[thebarber]

It definitely is, especially with all the info on this forum regarding the swap!

my wife wants a 2zr yaris for her next DD

[Thirty-Nine]

Let's face it folks: The Yaris/Vitz (RS or not) is an economy car designed for frugality and reliability. That's not to say you can't make it fun to drive. However, I agree with @NYC-SE. Perhaps this is the wrong car of the OP.

If I lived in NZ, I'd own a Suzuki Swift Sport (among a host of other cars we don't get in the States).

[yarisfitch]

I agree. i bought all three of mine for the reliability. If I wanted a race car I would have gone with something different

[Runethecursed]

I bought my yaris as a racecar <_<///

[ACKING_QC]

actually... the Yaris, and any other 1NZFE powered veicles can be great autocross machines... and even on STOCK suspension, the ride is awesome on back twisty roads... I could use some sway/strut bar kits all around to make the chassis stiffer, but overall it handles great and goes nuts when I floor it !

[SirDigby]

i bought mine as a racecar too! specifically because of the vitz cup! i remembered buying one on Grand Turismo 2 as a joke; but then i put over 300 miles on it because i liked driving it sooo much. it was stock except it had upgraded axles....

[Dliverance]

You guys are great. I also bought my Yaris as a race car. I’ve owned a lot of other “faster” cars like an FD, several wrx’s, turbo Miatas, Mini Cooper s and some more I’m forgetting. The Yaris is great. My last two cars before the Yaris were a mr2 spyder and a Ford festiva. If you want to feel a slow car (in a straight line) drive a carbureted 4 speed festiva.

Going from the festiva to the Yaris was so refreshing. I feel like I went from a donkey to a quarter horse. Don’t get me wrong though, the festiva was a phenomenal car and a blast to drive but the Yaris is exactly what a car needs to be. It’s peppy, it’s light, it has all of the creature comforts and I can guarantee that I can make any corevette owner pucker his bottom trying to keep up with me on a windy mountain road.

[Type-Y]

momentum car....

[DarkShadowFox]

swap with 2zz 2zr or 8ARFTS all engines fit.