The Disappearing Car

[kimona]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-disappearing-american-car/ar-AAvyRBr?ocid=spartanntp

[bronsin]

You better hope global warming isn’t real because if it is, driving all these monster cars and SUVs is exactly the wrong way to go

Not only that, the cost of these vehicles is getting completely be on the reach Of the average consumer. In New Jersey you cant buy a Yaris for less than $20,000 they claim they don’t have $14,000 ones.

[toad]

yes, i've decided to just start buying certified pre-owned from this day forward. the new models just get more and more expensive every year(i did see the new jetta went DOWN by $100 for 2019 so there is hope) and dealers act like your money is no good when you ask to see the 'lower-price' models. here in the midwest everyone wants big SUVs and trucks. you would think this would make deals to be found on new compacts and sedans, but the dealers don't stock many of them(if at all).

[Kalispel]

Not surprising, and probably part of the reason why the model/option market for subcompact/compact cars in the U.S. is so limited compared to other countries.

Anything bigger than a small crossover would be a no-go for me, regardless - and I can't really stomach the current crop of compact crossovers for one reason or another (mostly horrible styling, trim-levels that don't line up properly with what I want/don't-want, & the rampant use of cost-cutting Russian-Roulette quality CVTs in the brands that I would consider). So, no thanks.

[justanotherdrunk]

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/25/autos/ford-cars-north-america/index.html

[kimona]

I read that GM may be killing off up to 6 cars because of poor sales.

[Captain Yaris]

“After hearing the news of the future of the automotive industry, Beech-Hamilton has decided to throw their hat in the ring with their newest concept vehicle...”

[Kalispel]

Ford said the only cars it will keep in North America beyond their current generations are the Mustang and the Focus Active arriving in 2019 - and the Focus Active is somewhat of a crossover.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/ford-will-stop-selling-sedans-north-america-entirely-face-unstoppable-crossover

Focus Active Pic:

https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/916x515/quality/95/https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/730/098/6/S7300986/slug/l/ford-2018-focus-active-26-1.jpg

http://fordcarblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2019-Ford-Focus-Active-3.jpg

[dogsridewith]

Ford needs to look at what their Model-T and original Fiesta were in relation to the existing markets of their time periods.
Fiesta was THE first world car...and not executed in the USA. They sold it here, but didn't know how good it was. I remember one in a showroom w/ some of their barges not so interesting in the fuel challenged late 1970's. The Fiesta was next to an artists tripod w/ an oversized spread of a page or two of some magazine article "The Danger of Small Cars."

Fiesta was small, simple, strong, sporty and reliable. Not a single arbitrary line or fake detail...killed off here just as people were getting to know what it was. Ford assumed the new bigger Escort would make it unnecessary. The original Escort was an unreliable pig...I actually had to a leave a dead rental along the road in a tightly scheduled consulting trip to a Ford Electronics plant in Landsdale(?), PA. (designed a production infrared soldering machine for their Bill Quilty.)

Dad took out a German machine gun nest, was hit by one of their artillery shells and lowered carefully to the ground when captured German stretcher carriers heard incoming. The first new car he ever bought was a 1958 Beetle...later were a 67 Beetle, 71 VW Fastback, original Fiesta, 91 Geo Metro 5-door and 1996 Escort 4-door (darn nice model by then...still no BS styling).

So, regarding taste in vehicle type/size, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Oh. By the way. As WWII wrapped up, Ford USA had a production ready prototype called something like "The 90 inch wheelbase ______." The decision to not go with it figured that Americans wanted bigger/swoopier. I think this prototype may have had distinct fenders and/or running boards. As such it would have been a likely better competitor to what should be considered the first "retro" styled car...you guessed it--the 1949(?) VW Beetle, which obviously became more retro the longer it became from when any other car had running boards, protruding fenders and/or a humpy body shape.

(Ford Fiesta, Grosse Pointe Myopians Brock Yates Car and Driver, WWII)

[kimona]

Ford to shed most of its North American car lineup:

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/ford-1q-earnings-slightly-company-202423926.html

[ern-diz]

Sad story.

[toad]

^it's not all gloom-and-doom:smile: i believe they're just discontinuing the sedans and compacts and focusing(no pun intended:wink:) on trucks, suvs, and crossovers. of course they will still sell the mustang and the new crosstrek-ooop's...i mean 'focus active'.

maybe this will have a positive outcome for those of us loyal toyota sedan/compact lovers by 'thinning the herd' so-to-speak and keep our's in production:shrug:?

all i know is i'm not buying an suv, truck, or crossover anytime soon...

[ern-diz]

all i know is i'm not buying an suv, truck, or crossover anytime soon...

...or ever, for that matter lol.

[kimona]

Still love the Yaris and small hatchbacks in general, but have to admit, I really enjoy driving my sub-compact SUV... which is actually just a small hatchback.

BTW, the Ford Active certainly looks a lot like a Subaru Impreza.

[Kalispel]

Still love the Yaris and small hatchbacks in general, but have to admit, I really enjoy driving my sub-compact SUV... which is actually just a small hatchback.

BTW, the Ford Active certainly looks a lot like a Subaru Impreza.

The Focus Active looks pretty good in the various pics I have seen, and certainly better than the Impreza or Crosstrek - but it is a Ford. :eek:

The two main cars on my radar currently are the new 2019 Toyota Corolla (Auris) XSE hatch (in black), and the new 2019 Honda Insight hybrid sedan. Nothing else is remotely interesting to me at this point, for one reason or another. All the unnecessary/stupid tech-bloat is pretty discouraging, however, even in the cars I am interested in.

[kimona]

Here's a good article on the 2019 Corolla Hatchback:

http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/autos/toyota-corolla-hatchback-everything-including-the-name-is-changed/article_cd495324-424f-11e8-ac5c-27dee6d6e404.html

BTW, I think the 2019 Honda Insight is a great looking small sedan!

[Runethecursed]

I still have an incling that between Lincoln coming back with their Luxo cars, Ford's big stance on CUV's and SUV;s and of course trucks they are letting their tech go to Mazda.. I know they arent exactly owners anymore but if anyone has seen the design on the mazda L block and Duratec block from Ford. there's definitely some beef on rice action going on here... I think on a world scale it's fine

and I cant wait to see a focus active rally kor!

[dogsridewith]

My guess is Ford and Chevy are not permanently exiting these passenger car segments, but rather doing redesigns that are interesting without being insipid, outlandish and/or fake. Various model names have had years out of production before, and platforms can underpin a range of styling and functional alternatives.

[Runethecursed]

My guess is Ford and Chevy are not permanently exiting these passenger car segments, but rather doing redesigns that are interesting without being insipid, outlandish and/or fake. Various model names have had years out of production before, and platforms can underpin a range of styling and functional alternatives.

Mayhap, I had always wondered how Ford got sales on the fusion and the taurus... Sure the taurus was the full size but when you go that big wouldnt you pick up the SUV of like sized due to pricing?
the focus and fiesta thing also confused me. I get why you need a compact and subcompact, but its like.. pick one or the other cause both do the same thing, and if you do it based on fuel economy then theres focii with hybrid systems.

I personally like the look of the focus active, but i got a feels its gonna be like the Subaru Legacy/Forester combo. they are essentially the same sans the seating position and the feeling you can go more offroady

my grammerly is going nuts but aint care about punctuation or spelling right meow.

[kimona]

Chevy Impala on the chopping block?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/could-the-chevy-impala-be-the-next-american-sedan-to-go/ar-AAwnPCw?ocid=spartanntp

[Runethecursed]

Probably. Chevy would be smart, most of their midsize and full sized cars that are non Buick or Caddy frankly have been mundane at best. I dont even consider them when giving advice to others about either category, that said I rarely mention the big three in that regard, unless they are a car person such as myself and you have to have that srt8 magnum...

[kimona]

^^^ Well, the Impala and Malibu are Chevy benchmarks. Both are very handsome sedans (especially current models) that have achieved better than average grades in reviews and are exceptionally pleasant cars to drive. Buick's Lacrosse and Regal (and the discontinued Verano) are indeed upscale models and all are excellent vehicles... but I hear they may also be headed for the chopping block.

[Runethecursed]

^^^ Well, the Impala and Malibu are Chevy benchmarks. Both are very handsome sedans (especially current models) that have achieved better than average grades in reviews and are exceptionally pleasant cars to drive. Buick's Lacrosse and Regal (and the discontinued Verano) are indeed upscale models and all are excellent vehicles... but I hear they may also be headed for the chopping block.

so my question is... what will American Auto-x guys drive for kicks then? import b segements only?

[kimona]

Ford's move away from sedans: Can consumers afford it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/fords-move-away-from-sedans-can-consumers-afford-it/ar-AAwqROo?ocid=spartanntp

[Kalispel]

Ford's move away from sedans: Can consumers afford it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/fords-move-away-from-sedans-can-consumers-afford-it/ar-AAwqROo?ocid=spartanntp

I doubt it. Most working Americans today could not even survive in a one income household at this point, even without a car payment or children. The only reason the bulk of the 'middle-class' still exists any more is because of 2+ income households skewing the inconvenient truth. Most people couldn't even field a $500-1000 sudden emergency without resorting to interest-bearing debt to see it through. I see another crash in our future, and it will be a lot worse than 2008. And yes, new vehicle prices are just out of control - but don't worry, we have mortgage-like loans for cars now. :wink:

-

[Runethecursed]

I doubt it. Most working Americans today could not even survive in a one income household at this point, even without a car payment or children. The only reason the bulk of the 'middle-class' still exists any more is because of 2+ income households skewing the inconvenient truth. Most people couldn't even field a $500-1000 sudden emergency without resorting to interest-bearing debt to see it through. I see another crash in our future, and it will be a lot worse than 2008. And yes, new vehicle prices are just out of control - but don't worry, we have mortgage-like loans for cars now. :wink:

-


Someday Audi R8, you will be mine.... you will be

meanwhile for the same price you can buy a half acre of land and a house in Tennessee

sure its Tennessee but... its a house

Also, I can afford an emergency up to around 1500 without resorting to debt, but that's literally only recently in the past year ( been trying to stick to a tight budget)

[kimona]

Ford Will Focus On Trucks And SUVs, Only Offer Two Cars In U.S.:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-will-focus-on-trucks-and-suvs-only-offer-two-cars-in-us/ar-AAwlcsr?ocid=spartanntp

Ford Execs Defend Decision to Cancel Cars That Aren't the Mustang:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-execs-defend-decision-to-cancel-cars-that-arent-the-mustang/ar-AAwzi0x?ocid=spartanntp

Ford Explains Why It’s Axing Most Of Its Cars:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-explains-why-it’s-axing-most-of-its-cars/ar-AAwyZL0?ocid=spartanntp

[toad]

Someday Audi R8, you will be mine.... you will be

meanwhile for the same price you can buy a half acre of land and a house in Tennessee

sure its Tennessee but... its a house

Also, I can afford an emergency up to around 1500 without resorting to debt, but that's literally only recently in the past year ( been trying to stick to a tight budget)

Buy the R8 and park it at Walmart when you need to sleep:laugh:

IMHO Tennessee is a very pretty state, but with the R8 you could live wherever you want(although you'll spend A LOT on gas, but no more than a Winnebago)!

[Runethecursed]

:w00t:Buy the R8 and park it at Walmart when you need to sleep:laugh:

IMHO Tennessee is a very pretty state, but with the R8 you could live wherever you want(although you'll spend A LOT on gas, but no more than a Winnebago)!

Maybe I could live in a yaris. Busy today inside a junkyard done and once I got all four seats removed I looked air under and thought to myself. You know I could sleep and travel in here by myself..

[BennyLava]

my experience with this:

American front wheel drive has always sucked, especially when compared to Honda and Toyota. You get american, you want real wheel drive. Its my belief that you have to play to each automaker's strengths. And it happens to be that american does Rwd pretty well. But if you want a reliable Fwd gas saver, its honda or toyota. Not really any exceptions unless you like car problems after you've had the car a good while.

And for tough strong trucks, you don't want honda or toyota. Even the half tons from the U.S are better at their jobs than the toyota half tons. Just take one look at the metal under the back end of the tundra, when parked beside an F150. It becomes pretty clear. My buddy's new tundra could just barely pull my boat. And it kinda failed cause we were going up a slight hill and the RPMs were high, and we were slowing down. Not happening with the F150. Gotta play to their strengths.

I'd still avoid dodge though. Dodge is the poor kid of america, kind of like nissan. They like to have wtf style engine problems. Like eating their own crankshafts. Like nissan, dodge is cheaper for good reason. Its apparent in every aspect. They ride rougher. The interior quality is notably poorer. A lot of people see that cheap dodge price and think they're getting some kind of a deal. They're not.

You go to work on a nissan, (which you'll be doing more frequently) and your hands get all cut up. Working on a honda is generally a pleasure.

[kimona]

U.S. Car Buyers to Japan: We Don't Want Your Sedans:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/us-car-buyers-to-japan-we-dont-want-your-sedans/ar-AAwEmZD?ocid=spartanntp

[BennyLava]

Also, these people have short memories. When gas prices were off the charts, everyone was clamoring for 4 cylinder cars. I knew people that sold the SUVs and got civics and such.

I know the women are all about SUVs, but most of the guys I know are "car guys". You don't really hear much about "suv guys", they're generally thought of as mom mobiles. Kind of unmanly, in a way. I definitely wouldn't want one as any kind of a daily driver.

For gas mileage though, they really should put diesels in most of these SUVs imo

[ern-diz]

SUV guys! You've got to be careful in these uber PC days; someone might catch feelings! :biggrin:

[kimona]

Hey! I drive an SUV... every day.

[ern-diz]

Hey! I drive an SUV... every day.

:biggrin:

[scylla]

Hmm, if US carmakers give up making cars what will police drive? SUV's?
I see a few police SUV's out there, but those are mostly for canine units.

[Runethecursed]

I "daily" my SUV everyday that my Yaris is broke/down for mods/ inclemate weather/moving more than 2 people. ...

It has a 5.3l v8 and awd and gets me up the hills for overlanding, and it has a 8000lb tow rating (not that ill need it with an alum trailer and my yaris) and moves up to 5 people or 9 if you got some froggy people in the back.

so who's this about mom mobiles?


In all due seriousness I would love a diesel in the damn thing...
If the US manufactures made a midsized four door body on frame with a 7000+ lb towing capacity in diesel Id be over that like a fly on hot nachos...
most the midsize SUV's aren't SUV's but glorified fwd station wagons in raised seating positions...

[BennyLava]

glorified fwd station wagons in raised seating positions...

Always thought that too lol. And I never liked station wagons. Imo there is such a thing as too much function, too little form. On something like a car, where people care about how it looks.

There needs to be a nice balance of the two. And station wagons look like the engineers just said "Eh, they want a bigger car? Make it longer!" and the result was just a car that got real ugly cause the overall aesthetics were thrown way out of wack.

[Runethecursed]

Always thought that too lol. And I never liked station wagons. Imo there is such a thing as too much function, too little form. On something like a car, where people care about how it looks.

And on that topic

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Volvo_Concept_Estate_02.jpg/1280px-Volvo_Concept_Estate_02.jpg

There are gorgeous cars out that that move people and carry loads and do utility stuff short of hauling tons of lbs. But from what I know Dodge bringing the Magnum, poor sales with that and the CTS wagon, and more recently volvos low sales marque in the segment solidified the burial of the "station wagon"

which righteously sucks, that volvo is flat out gorgeous.

[why?]

my experience with this:

American front wheel drive has always sucked, especially when compared to Honda and Toyota. You get american, you want real wheel drive. Its my belief that you have to play to each automaker's strengths. And it happens to be that american does Rwd pretty well. But if you want a reliable Fwd gas saver, its honda or toyota. Not really any exceptions unless you like car problems after you've had the car a good while.

And for tough strong trucks, you don't want honda or toyota. Even the half tons from the U.S are better at their jobs than the toyota half tons. Just take one look at the metal under the back end of the tundra, when parked beside an F150. It becomes pretty clear. My buddy's new tundra could just barely pull my boat. And it kinda failed cause we were going up a slight hill and the RPMs were high, and we were slowing down. Not happening with the F150. Gotta play to their strengths.

I'd still avoid dodge though. Dodge is the poor kid of america, kind of like nissan. They like to have wtf style engine problems. Like eating their own crankshafts. Like nissan, dodge is cheaper for good reason. Its apparent in every aspect. They ride rougher. The interior quality is notably poorer. A lot of people see that cheap dodge price and think they're getting some kind of a deal. They're not.

You go to work on a nissan, (which you'll be doing more frequently) and your hands get all cut up. Working on a honda is generally a pleasure.

I couldn't disagree more, although American cars do get a really bad rap. I've driven plenty of fun American fwd vehicles, the first gen Taurus SHO was sensational. I do think Ford should bring the Fiesta ST, as that car is just awesome. That and the Focus RS along with the Mustang are really the only cars Ford needs.

It really is about reliability, but American manufacturers SUV's have reliability issues as well.

[Captain Yaris]

I know I’m probably in the minority but I love wagons. I just saw a Volvo V90 Cross Country in silver and I haven’t been stood in my tracks by a car in a long time. I’d love to have a diesel wagon, but so far here in ‘Murica, the BMW 328d Sport Wagon is the closest choice. I’m positively scared of the reliability and maintenance costs associated with BMW’s.

[bronsin]

My brother-in-law is a BMW mechanic and he says no one should buy a BMW unless they plan to sell it after the warranty is up. :bonk:

[kimona]

Ford Fights Back Against Claims It's Killing The Car:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-fights-back-against-claims-its-killing-the-car/ar-AAx58Hy?ocid=spartanntp

[kimona]

Subaru: Sedans, Traditional Cars Are Still Relevant

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/subaru-sedans-traditional-cars-are-still-relevant/ar-AAxB9Er?ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz