2ZR LONG TUBE HEADER POTENTIAL GROUP BUY!

[tmontague]

alright everyone. Tom from Amrstrong racing is throwing us a huge bone here. He is taking time out of his life to uninstall his long tube header and drive it out to a local fabricator over an hour away so that the guy can look at it and give us a price. His plan is to make a jig for it to have an exact copy of the header originally built by RPM but now discontinued.

The fabricator has also stated he can build it in stainless steal instead of the original steel to help in slowing rust and increasing durability.

Tom will be delivering the header to him after the holidays and we will hopefully have a price in the new year.

The original header was dynod at around 12-15whp extra with the factory tune. I dont know how long this will be available but if any of you are thinking about a header who have or are going to be swapping a 2zr into your yaris then I wouldn't wait. I made that mistake only to find out the rpm header was discontinued.

This thread is to gauge interest and I'll post updates on here as more info is known. Obviously the more that want to buy this header will bring down the cost as it makes it more worth while for the fabricator to build the jig

Post here if you are interested

[atomic_hoji]

alright everyone. Tom from Amrstrong racing is throwing us a huge bone here.
...
The fabricator has also stated he can build it in stainless steal instead of the original steel to help in slowing rust and increasing durability.
...
Tom will be delivering the header to him after the holidays and we will hopefully have a price in the new year.
...
The original header was dynod at around 12-15whp extra with the factory tune. I dont know how long this will be available but if any of you are thinking about a header who have or are going to be swapping a 2zr into your yaris then I wouldn't wait. I made that mistake only to find out the rpm header was discontinued.
...
This thread is to gauge interest ...


Up front, thanks to Tom for taking the time to drop his header and look into the fab. cost of a reproduction for everyone! :w00t:

When you made a comment, Trevor, recently about investigating the possibility of having something made I was wondering how soon this would come up.. lol I was also too late to order - I decided I was going to pop for the long tube only to find fastscions.com no longer had it posted and that RPM had since discontinued production.

Stainless would be fantastic, but would depend on price difference and what stainless is being used - i.e. cheap 406 stainless exhaust lasts a bit longer in the salt belt here, but not sure it'd be worth much extra when a steel header could be coated with a high temp paint and probably last just as long.. I suspect if this is a fab shop that is used to doing exhaust work then they'll be well aware of material types - although in California I'm not sure they know (or want to know) what our cars go through for weather each winter.. :eek:

Short version: I'm 100% interested. :biggrin:

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Stainless would be fantastic, but would depend on price difference and what stainless is being used - i.e. cheap 406 stainless exhaust lasts a bit longer in the salt belt here, but not sure it'd be worth much extra when a steel header could be coated with a high temp paint and probably last just as long.. I suspect if this is a fab shop that is used to doing exhaust work then they'll be well aware of material types - although in California I'm not sure they know (or want to know) what our cars go through for weather each winter.. :eek:
-- Adam

i agree with you on this for sure, depends on price

[ArmstrongRacing]

Ok guys, delivering the header tomorrow!
http://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/uploads/7/4/0/2/74028615/img-1245_orig.jpeg

[atomic_hoji]

:thumbsup:
Again, appreciate your making the time and effort to run with this for us Tom!

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Yes, thanks a ton!

[ArmstrongRacing]

I transported the RPM header out to my buddy(and sponsor) Bret at Yawsport. He's the guy with the insanely fast Acura TL race car, and he corner-balanced my car earlier this year.

When I arrived he met me out front and before even seeing the part he mentioned that he will build a permanent jig to bring these headers back to the market. After seeing the header, right away he was interested in making improvements including:

1-Coating | After 2 years of racing most of the coating was gone and it was starting to corrode, he said it appears the header was never REALLY ceramic coated and was just "spray painted"...This time it will be done right!

2 - Porting | He also noticed that the ports on the flange had about a 1/4 soot ring, here he feels we can improve flow a bit more by doing a correct port match. He had me order a new exhaust gasket and provide measurements of the exhaust ports on the head. MO POWA!

3 - Flanges | When I first installed the header, it was a pita to slide onto the exhaust studs. The bolt holes in the flange were not exactly lined up properly, he will use an OEM Toyota gasket as the template to Plasma cut the flanges properly.

Thats all for now, I'll continue to post updates here as we make progress!http://www.yawsport.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/1015076_10151527467763165_43941687_o.jpg

[tmontague]

I'm uber excited dude

[3cyltrbo]

I need this.....................only for my 1nzfe...

[ArmstrongRacing]

I need this.....................only for my 1nzfe...

thats an easy fix, we just need a 1nz flange...assuming all of the angles translate ie: 2zr engine pitch is the same as the 1nz

[xnamerxx]

The soot ring is probably due to the gasket being about 1/4-1/2" bigger than the port, the 1nz has the same issue. You can gain quite a bit of flow adding a venturi in the collector. I've got a dwg of the flange if you want it, since I've already made a few headers.

[ArmstrongRacing]

The soot ring is probably due to the gasket being about 1/4-1/2" bigger than the port, the 1nz has the same issue. You can gain quite a bit of flow adding a venturi in the collector. I've got a dwg of the flange if you want it, since I've already made a few headers.

Awesome Bobby thank you, I'll definitely take whatever you have to offer

[tmontague]

I like the idea of adding a venturi to the collector right before the flange. Makes a lot of sense

[atomic_hoji]

I would caution playing too much with the header when they're known to work well as is. What Tom was saying about port matching makes sense to match the port to the header and remove that ridge interfering with outflow, and proper coating and fitment is great obviously - it's actually a bit disappointing RPM didn't have fitment perfect in the first place, I hadn't recalled reading that Tom had issues.. but never-the-less, it's good to hear Bret is all over getting it right. :thumbsup:

Starting to play with specific, calculated diameter changes at the collector sounds like you're getting into header tuning, which my understanding can make a big difference when done on high performance engines and takes numerous iterations to tweak properly. On mostly stock engines with stock camshafts, stock tuning, etc.. it's not nearly as big an impact in the first place and can actually degrade performance in parts of the rev band if not done and tested carefully. And remember this isn't an old V8 lump, our engines have dual-VVTi or Valvematic which means performance at WOT is one thing, but the variations and adjustments done by the ECM during daily driving are impacted too - I'm not sure if/how the stock ECM would try and compensate or if you're more likely to cause detriment..

Just saying, the idea to make a good long-tube header available again is one task, but diving into dyno tuning research and calculations for a market interest from predominantly stock vehicles is an altogether different beast.

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Good point, but it seems rpm may have done a very quick and dirty type build here to get something to market, I'm curious as to how well they actually played with the design to see the differences in performance.

What needs to be looked at for port matching as xnamerxx stated above is, is the head port actually larger than the header port, or is it just the gasket that is leather so the soot ring shows up on the header

[ArmstrongRacing]

Great points Adam, and that reminds me of something Bret mentioned. He did report that after looking inside the collector of the RPM header, he discovered it does have a top quality "Bernoulli" collector. This means that the headers awesome performance was most likely due to optimized scavenging flow. Check out the image of what this looks like:https://www.dragzine.com/image/2017/06/2017-06-26_14-14-32-640x426.jpg

...The soot ring is probably due to the gasket being about 1/4-1/2" bigger than the port...

This is exactly right, I measured the exhaust ports on the 2zr head and they are 32.7mm...whereas the gasket has a 43mm diameter....Lets see what Brett reports back...

[atomic_hoji]

Ah, understood - I mis-interpreted the meaning; in hindsight, re-reading what was being said about the gasket that makes sense..

Good to know re: collector. Is that your header after clean-up on the bench there, Tom? Looks night and day difference vs. the picture above!

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

No the picture of the collector is a generic image from the internet.

I know I pointed out some flaws at the beginning of this post but based on the collector I change my assessment. After seeing the Bernoulli I'd say they probably did do their research on performance, but cut corners on the flanges and coating

[3cyltrbo]

There is soo much valuable input in this thread its crazy.

For my own part, if someone could provide me a header that:

-made more power than my existing DC Sports header
-fit properly
-didn't cost eleventy billion dollars

= TAKE MY MONEY

Will

[tmontague]

Tom heard back from the fabricator and to do a direct copy of the log tube header it would cost $1500USD. He can do other things to improve the design for an extra cost, but according to him the basic design is pretty good.

Please post here if you are interested. Tom will be picking up his header soon so if you have the $ for the header post here asap before Tom picks it up.

[myfirstyota]

Did I read $1500 USD correctly? I was interested as the turbo idea is on the back burner in favour of a house, but at $1500usd for what, 10hp.....f-that.

[tmontague]

Yeah unfortunately it won't be cheap. I wont be able to jump on this right now at that price either.

Iirc it was about 10-15 who so a worthy mod for sure and even more so if you run a high revving head and/or standalone ecu

[heeroyuy01195]

Want to stay up to date with this so...subscribed!