Transmission upgrades and retrofitts

[ArmstrongRacing]

Take a look at how the C transmission progressed from 180 until now!https://youtu.be/NcoWBQTAurM

[myfirstyota]

This guy makes me wanna rip apart trannys lol

[tmontague]

I'll be watching the video later this week, always look forward to the trans builds

[ArmstrongRacing]

This guy makes me wanna rip apart trannys lol

Well that’s quite the risky statement :eek:

[myfirstyota]

Well that’s quite the risky statement :eek:
Depending on how one interprets that statement...yes lol

[Leegamer]

This is really cool. I would love to acquire some junk trannies just to take apart and learn to put back together and then eventually mod transmissions for my own cars.

[CrankyOldMan]

This is really cool. I would love to acquire some junk trannies just to take apart and learn to put back together and then eventually mod transmissions for my own cars.

This is what I did about 5 years ago. It started with lots of research into part numbers to look for compatible gears, then turned into buying four different C-series gearboxes on the cheap and completely stripping them down. There are a few specialty tools that will make it easier, but you don't have to get all of the Toyota Special Service Tools (SSTs) to get it done. If you plan on changing any individual ratios you will need access to a hydraulic press (20T or bigger), bearing separators and some misc gear pulling tools. I'd plan on investing at least $500 into tools if you want to do it right, less if you're OK with breaking teeth off the gears. =)

[Leegamer]

This is what I did about 5 years ago. It started with lots of research into part numbers to look for compatible gears, then turned into buying four different C-series gearboxes on the cheap and completely stripping them down. There are a few specialty tools that will make it easier, but you don't have to get all of the Toyota Special Service Tools (SSTs) to get it done. If you plan on changing any individual ratios you will need access to a hydraulic press (20T or bigger), bearing separators and some misc gear pulling tools. I'd plan on investing at least $500 into tools if you want to do it right, less if you're OK with breaking teeth off the gears. =)

Awesome, thanks for the insight! I'm about to buy a new house with a massive garage and will build up my tool collection over the next few years as I start to undertake various automotive projects that have been on hold due to my lack of garage.

[CrankyOldMan]

Take a look at how the C transmission progressed from 180 until now!https://youtu.be/NcoWBQTAurM

From 1980? =)

You should also update the 3-4 shift arm. The one in the C50 I'm (slowly) rebuilding for a friend was broken off completely. The new part number has a reinforcing rib that stops that failure mode.

[tmontague]

Awesome, thanks for the insight! I'm about to buy a new house with a massive garage and will build up my tool collection over the next few years as I start to undertake various automotive projects that have been on hold due to my lack of garage.

I hear you man, story of my life right now. The family wont be moving until after next winter and I'm counting the days until I have a garage

[CrankyOldMan]

Awesome, thanks for the insight! I'm about to buy a new house with a massive garage and will build up my tool collection over the next few years as I start to undertake various automotive projects that have been on hold due to my lack of garage.

I'm in the same boat. I lived in a trailer park or apartment for most of the last 10 years but now have a house with a decent sized garage. I actually did my 2ZR swap in a rented storage unit a few miles from home. Not ideal, but better than an uncovered parking space.

[3cyltrbo]

Armstrong Racing...........

So this is what I'd love to happen...

I'd like to somehow get you a 5spd / 1NZ-fe compatible transmission (send you mine or source one close to you).

-Have it super super duper cleaned so that its shiny and soo soo brand new looking on the outside
-have that fancy WPC treatment done to the internals
-change the gear ratios (and the final drive?????) so that I don't have a massive RPM drop between 1-2 and 2-3
-change the 5th gear ratio so that I still have super low RPM when cruising on the highway.

= How much $$$$ (PM me if you'd rather take this conversation offline)

Will

p.s. = I already have a Fidanza 8.5lb flywheel and ACT stage 1 clutch just waiting to get installed with whatever tranny work I someday get done.

[myfirstyota]

I hear you man, story of my life right now. The family wont be moving until after next winter and I'm counting the days until I have a garage

+1 on counting garage days. But I gotta say, so far, hasn't stopped me from doing what I want with my cars :)

[ArmstrongRacing]

Armstrong Racing...........

So this is what I'd love to happen...

I'd like to somehow get you a 5spd / 1NZ-fe compatible transmission (send you mine or source one close to you).

-Have it super super duper cleaned so that its shiny and soo soo brand new looking on the outside
-have that fancy WPC treatment done to the internals
-change the gear ratios (and the final drive?????) so that I don't have a massive RPM drop between 1-2 and 2-3
-change the 5th gear ratio so that I still have super low RPM when cruising on the highway.

= How much $$$$ (PM me if you'd rather take this conversation offline)

Will

p.s. = I already have a Fidanza 8.5lb flywheel and ACT stage 1 clutch just waiting to get installed with whatever tranny work I someday get done.

If you want a spare transmission then I can usually find a used one for $300-700, otherwise just mail yours to me in a Home Depot box.($100)

I clean the case on every build I do, no extra cost. WPC for the essentials(3-4-output shaft) is about $200, the whole box is $500.

1st and 2nd include the input shaft, so I wouldn’t bother modifying those, 3rd and 4th can be manipulated in almost any way you like...and 5th gear can be lengthened to accommodate a more aggressive final drive if you choose(requires a new output shaft and ring gear).

My standard fee is $600 labor for the build, and that includes a spec sheet and certification label.

[3cyltrbo]

If you want a spare transmission then I can usually find a used one for $300-700, otherwise just mail yours to me in a Home Depot box.($100)

I clean the case on every build I do, no extra cost. WPC for the essentials(3-4-output shaft) is about $200, the whole box is $500.

1st and 2nd include the input shaft, so I wouldn’t bother modifying those, 3rd and 4th can be manipulated in almost any way you like...and 5th gear can be lengthened to accommodate a more aggressive final drive if you choose(requires a new output shaft and ring gear).

My standard fee is $600 labor for the build, and that includes a spec sheet and certification label.

So, the way to eliminate the huge RPM drop between 1-2 and 2-3 is through a shortened final drive?

And to get me back to my super lower cruising RPM, a really tall 5th gear is the solution?

Would I end up right back where I am now for cruising RPM?. Even though this car gets sporadic use (its only got 15,000 total miles) , that use can sometimes include 14hrs in a day of highway driving while on trips. Its for this reason that I'm trying to have my cake and eat it to.

WC

[tmontague]

I'll chime in as I am using a c50 wth a reduced final drive on stock gears that Tom built. The rpm is about 400-500 higher than it was with the stock final drive what this translates to is much more torque in said gear, especially the first couple. I cant go wot on my slicks from a stop or they will spin even when hot - that is with a clutch type lsd too.

The car now pulls insanely hard for what it is and makes driving pretty engaging. It doesnt actually shorten the distance between each gear as you would have to adjust gear ratios for that, but it shortens the time in each year relative to speed. Think, benefits of a close ratio 6 speed but with a reduced top speed and higher rpm at highways.

Keep in mind I have a 2zr which pulls hard right to redline. The only con I have noticed with the reduced final drive is a lowered top speed (at high speed tracks) and a higher rpm at highway speed which leads to high fuel consumption and noise. For a regular DD'r i would recommend going with a taller 5th gear from a Matrix (Tom can hook you up with the correct one).

IMO a 5 SPD trans with reduced final gear is perfect for the hard pulling 2zr if you have a taller 5th gear installed.

For the 1nz I feel that a 6spd offers more benefits albeit at a higher cost. The reason is that the 1nz falls flat at 5500rpm even with I/H/E installed. The closer gear and extra gear of a 6spd would keep you in the power band. On the 2zr your power band is 4k rpm all the way to redline. So shifting right at redline keep you in the power band . Where as the 1nz power band is about 4k rpm to 5500 so if you shift at 5500rpm you will be slightly out of the power band for a bit.

Someone feel free to chime in and correct anything that I may have got wrong, but I figured my experiences with the trans would be helpful.

Side note, these trans seem pretty stout at sub 150whp levels(and possibly more) and Tom does a fantastic job meticulously installing a trans. You can hammer on it with confidence and trust it will still run the next day

[ArmstrongRacing]

Completely agree Trevor.

Modifying the 5 speed final drive costs What it does because the final drive is the most expensive part of the transmission. Where the 6 speed becomes more expensive is the new axles and frame modifying.

After having both I prefer the 6 speed due to the 4.5 FD and close ratios...it’s quite amazing. However the 5 speed is definitely no slouch as Trevor, Sam, Jason, Bobby, Garm and so many others have shown.

The thing to ask yourself is....what can you afford and are you ready to make moves?

[Bluevitz-rs]

Do you know is there's any options for a higher ratio for 6th gear to lower highway RPMs?

I have the C160 in mine and am growing tired of the high RPMs on the highway. I'm turboed too so torque is not an issue.

[CrankyOldMan]

So, the way to eliminate the huge RPM drop between 1-2 and 2-3 is through a shortened final drive?

And to get me back to my super lower cruising RPM, a really tall 5th gear is the solution?

Would I end up right back where I am now for cruising RPM?. Even though this car gets sporadic use (its only got 15,000 total miles) , that use can sometimes include 14hrs in a day of highway driving while on trips. Its for this reason that I'm trying to have my cake and eat it to.

WC

It's possible to change the 1-2 drop using a Celica C56 input shaft. Can't recall the ratio that you get, but there's probably an old thread around here with that info. That's what I've done with my custom setup. 1st gear is a fixed point in time and space on all C-series gearboxes that I've encountered because the minor diameter of the pinion is basically the diameter of the shaft at that point. 2nd gear is also fixed to the shaft. There's a picture near the bottom of this post (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=630630&postcount=1) showing the anatomy.

[ArmstrongRacing]

Heres my video on the actual retrofit build...

https://youtu.be/yT0K481lvNs

[ArmstrongRacing]

Heres another retrofit video!

https://youtu.be/TiUseaXx9OU

[ArmstrongRacing]

C60 build video!

https://youtu.be/krRyqttAKBM

[DarkShadowFox]

C60 build video!

https://youtu.be/krRyqttAKBM

i thought you were selling it.

[ArmstrongRacing]

This is a customers transmission, the title says Edgar....