Lithium Ion Battery Jump Starters

[tmontague]

I thought I'd post this as a heads up to those who have a lithium ion battery jump starter pack in their car for emergency use.

For xmas this past year my wife bought me a jump pack from Costco - The Type S jumper. I wanted one since I have a parasitic draw on my battery (~275-300mA) and if I let thre car sit for about 6 day in the summer or 2 days in the middle of winter, it doesn't have enough juice to turn over the car.

Well I fully charged the jumper and left it in my car in case I ever needed it. I needed it a couple week ago and went to use it and the jumper battery was almost completely dead. It had less voltage than my car battery so it automatically wouldn't jump the car. I took it inside and once it warmed up it read full charge. I ended up having to use my battery charger/75A jumper that I have and after 5 tries it finally turned the car over and started. 75A isn't as much as you think when it is -20C.

I have since kept my jumper in the house at night and if I think I may need it later in the day I bring it inside with me where ever I am. This morning my battery didn't have enough charge to turn over the engine and I pulled out my (room temperature) jumper. Hooked it up and the battery turned over like it was brand new and the car started.

Anyways, my point is, don't trust those lithium ion jumpers to do anything below 0C, during the winter bring them inside in case you actually need it. This is nothing new, Lithium ion batteries don't do well in cold, but something to keep in mind none the less.

I think my parasitic draw may be due to my aftermarket keyless entry but it is way too cold outside right now to test that theory.

[Maritime]

Thanks for the info. I have one and have not needed to use it yet in the cold. Only in warm. Good to know.

[komichal]

Interesting info. One would expect that they will put some better batteries inside that pack (there must be something considering all those Teslas driving outside in minus temperatures).
I have bought myself solid jumpstart cables - in case I need them there is always a car around where I can beg for 5 minutes of their time. And I have really needed those cables once... when I was asked by a desperate colleague for help. :D

[Leegamer]

Interesting info. One would expect that they will put some better batteries inside that pack (there must be something considering all those Teslas driving outside in minus temperatures).
I have bought myself solid jumpstart cables - in case I need them there is always a car around where I can beg for 5 minutes of their time. And I have really needed those cables once... when I was asked by a desperate colleague for help. :D

Google "tesla battery cold"

They have a ton of issues with cold weather. I believe tesla is even developing, maybe already offering battery warmers.

[myfirstyota]

Wouldn't that just consume more battery power? On an a battery that's already giving performance issues? Lol

[Leegamer]

The preheating only works if the car is plugged in I believe.

[myfirstyota]

So if you're parked in a parking lot all day like say you were at work.... no bueno?

[Leegamer]

So if you're parked in a parking lot all day like say you were at work.... no bueno?

Yep!

[IllusionX]

It's a good idea to cycle the battery twice a month.

LiPo batteries swell if kept fully charged and unused for a prolonged period of time.

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[toad]

The preheating only works if the car is plugged in I believe.

The real battery drain issue(when driving) is the heater/defroster. It's so bad you'll read of some Tesla owners just using mostly the seat heaters to reduce the load:eek: I still want one though, dammit:laugh:

[myfirstyota]

Love the idea power and reliability of ev, but just not practical enough for me yet.

[IllusionX]

Google "tesla battery cold"



They have a ton of issues with cold weather. I believe tesla is even developing, maybe already offering battery warmers.I thought Tesla auto keeps the battery warm by itself?

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[IllusionX]

The preheating only works if the car is plugged in I believe.You can warm the cabin remotely on a Tesla regardless. If it's plugged in, and not charging, it will use the battery to warm the cabin.

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[Leegamer]

Good to know. I don't know a whole lot about teslas, I have pretty much no interest in EVs

[IllusionX]

Good to know. I don't know a whole lot about teslas, I have pretty much no interest in EVsWell, you gonna have to change your mind. EV is gonna be the future, although I wish hydrogen fuel cells would have taken the lead. Burn hydrogen, exhaust water.

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[Leegamer]

Well, you gonna have to change your mind. EV is gonna be the future, although I wish hydrogen fuel cells would have taken the lead. Burn hydrogen, exhaust water.

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Nah, I'll find a way.

[myfirstyota]

Nah, I'll find a way.

Steam engine!

Ev may be the future, bit I don't think gasoline will die before my lifetime. Oil employs way too many people to have it disappear in 10 years. The economy couldn't handle it.

[Leegamer]

the more EVs there are, the more combustion engine cars I'll buy and put straight pipes on.

[myfirstyota]

the more EVs there are, the more combustion engine cars I'll buy and put straight pipes on.

I like your style Lee!

[tmontague]

Interesting info. One would expect that they will put some better batteries inside that pack (there must be something considering all those Teslas driving outside in minus temperatures).
I have bought myself solid jumpstart cables - in case I need them there is always a car around where I can beg for 5 minutes of their time. And I have really needed those cables once... when I was asked by a desperate colleague for help. :D

Lithium Ion batteries are used in portable jumpers simply because they are small and light enough to be practical and they pack enough of a punch in that package to jump a car while being affordable. Obviously their downside is their lack of performance in the cold.

That said, the root of my battery issue is my 300mA parasitic draw which I will be diagnosing tonight as it is warming up a bit.

Love the idea power and reliability of ev, but just not practical enough for me yet.

agreed, it isn't where it needs to be yet to be practical for most peopl, nor is the pricing. Comparing a small (somewhat decently priced) Volt to a Yaris or Corolla and you are not really saving anything environmentally wise.

I can see my family having one EV as the local town runner/grocery gett'r but beyong that there is no way they are practical for my family and our trips to the cottage summer and winter.

My track car will always be an ICE, way more fun and the ability to customize and tinker plus amazing noise. Take that away and you remove a lot of the fun that comes with motorsports. Look at the issue FormulaE has with their batteries and having to precisely plan out exactly how long they can run for before they switch cars and have to decrease power. It isn't practical to have an EV that you can drive to the track, run hard for a few hours and then take you on a long ride home. Not until thei battery capacity goes way up and charging times severely decrease as well as the amount of charging stations.

Well, you gonna have to change your mind. EV is gonna be the future, although I wish hydrogen fuel cells would have taken the lead. Burn hydrogen, exhaust water.
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I agree it is the future, but a not so close one. I also do not see it casting ICE's into obsolescence, at least not in my life time. Until Big Oil can replace their profits with something of the electric kind, oil isn't going anywhere. Multi billion dollar corporations have way to much to lose and will do what they need to to keep themselves relevant and profitable. Other industries have already done so, oil is no different and neither are their ethics and morals

[Leegamer]

I like your style Lee!

The dude abides!

[suprf1y]

In an effort to get as light as possible I used to run a Lithium ion battery in one of my previous cars. It was technically a summer only car but I drove it as long as there was no snow or salt on the road. It got pretty dicey in late November/early December after a 12hr night shift. It always started, but since they regain voltage as they heat up, I often had to short crank it 3-4 times to let the battery heat before it would actually turn it fast enough to start.

[kevinj93]

Anyone had a look at the "Rescue Mate" jump starter? http://www.rescue-mate.com
This uses capacitors instead of lithium batteries, and charges from the residual power still in the car battery.

[tmontague]

In an effort to get as light as possible I used to run a Lithium ion battery in one of my previous cars. It was technically a summer only car but I drove it as long as there was no snow or salt on the road. It got pretty dicey in late November/early December after a 12hr night shift. It always started, but since they regain voltage as they heat up, I often had to short crank it 3-4 times to let the battery heat before it would actually turn it fast enough to start.

Hmm, interesting, never thought about warming it up that way

Anyone had a look at the "Rescue Mate" jump starter? http://www.rescue-mate.com
This uses capacitors instead of lithium batteries, and charges from the residual power still in the car battery.

I've seen videos online about it. Seems like a brilliant idea for those in cold climates. Realistically I can bring my jumper inside with me during the winter when I'm at work or over night, but it is a hassle and the capacitor solution would allow you to leave it in your car all winter until you need it

[suprf1y]

Let's see if this works. EDIT: Photobucket's back I guess

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/suprf1y/IMG_1206.jpg

Perspective

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/suprf1y/IMG_1209.jpg

It was starting a 12.5-1 G13 with about 250 psi craking pressure

[myfirstyota]

I used to know a guy who ran a powersports battery (think motorcycle or riding lawnmower). But this was way before lithium batteries were popular.

Now how would you charge that battery? Don't lithium batteries need special chemistry when charging? Won't a standard alternator f_ck sh_t up?

[IllusionX]

I used to know a guy who ran a powersports battery (think motorcycle or riding lawnmower). But this was way before lithium batteries were popular.

Now how would you charge that battery? Don't lithium batteries need special chemistry when charging? Won't a standard alternator f_ck sh_t up?You need a charge controller, but it's no mystery. They charge to 4.2v full

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[myfirstyota]

So you just have it wired up to charge while you're driving just like normal battery? Or do you remove the battery and charge on a normal a/c style lithium charger like ones used for hobbies?

[suprf1y]

I left that battery in the car full time and had no external charger. I used one in my dual sport bike as well. I accidentally ran one of them down once and brought it back with a simple automotive battery charger. My electronic charger wanted nothing to do with it.