Yaris' Auto-X #1 RIVAL???

[forpinks]

I'd like to know this since I'm buying a Yar for Auto-X"ing" and like to know which cars are its rivals and if possible what is the worse car I want to see at the Yaris' class when I'm auto crossing?

Is the EG6 in that list and AE92 on that list?


Thanks peeps!

[forpinks]

C'mon any tips on which car I should be aware of when Auto crossing?

[WRBlue]

What class?

In HS, Mini Cooper totally destroys the class. Although if you ever run across a stock Lotus Cortina, it would kill everything in HS too.

In STS, EF Civic Si is the fastest car. Since the class started in 01, 10 out of the 12 national champs have been 88-89 hatches.

[forpinks]

What class?

In HS, Mini Cooper totally destroys the class. Although if you ever run across a stock Lotus Cortina, it would kill everything in HS too.

In STS, EF Civic Si is the fastest car. Since the class started in 01, 10 out of the 12 national champs have been 88-89 hatches.

The class that a base Yaris with a few handling mods and 4pt harnesses... (I'm getting a Yaris to train in Auto-X.

Is the Mini Cooper and Miata better in handling than the Yaris?

[paradigm]

Yes. Keep in mind the yaris is still, all in all, designed as an econ car. The miata would dominate it.

[kurokoma-kun]

Doesn't Miata belong in different class? The SCCA has a lot of info on their website but I am too lazy to look up :tongue: I think unmodifed goes in CS or ES depending on year. In my area several guys run modifieds in CSP or STS2.

[WRBlue]

Doesn't Miata belong in different class? The SCCA has a lot of info on their website but I am too lazy to look up :tongue: I think unmodifed goes in CS or ES depending on year. In my area several guys run modifieds in CSP or STS2.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes ;)
1.8L Miatas rule CS
1.6L Miatas have their hands full with MR2s in ES. My old 280ZX was in E Stock too.
Locally, the CSP Miatas are almost the FTD cars. Well they are the FTD CARS ;) Thoes F125 karts beat them though.
2 out of the 3 STS2 national Champs have been Miatas.

A Yaris doesn't compete directly with a Miata in any class unless they go crazy and you go crazy and meet in A, D, or E Mod. In A mod, any car based vehicle will get destroyed. In D mod, EVERY champion since 1984 has been Lotus based (7, Elan, or Europa).

Basically, because the Yaris is classed in H Stock, the SCCA believes every car in Super Stock, A, B, C, D, E, F, and G stock will be faster.

But saying that, any car can be competitive in its class locally. IMHO the Yaris should be a good autox car because of the tiny wheelbase. The COG hurts it though. Like any car, if your new to autox its a good learning tool.

[forpinks]

What mods should I stay away from if I don't want to see "Yaris Eaters" at the Auto-X lot?

Also, I have a friend with an EG6 (JDM-R w/ built internals, light suspension mods and 60shot ZEX) and he keeps on telling me that an EG6 will take over the Auto-X track over any car in its class? Is this true or is he just being Ricer? (He doesn't auto x BTW.)

[cali yaris]

gosh, if you want to learn auto-x, buy a used miata or even a celica and go beat it up. You'll spend less than you would on a new Yaris with mods, and I believe a Miata with suspension work would teach you more about racing. Just my opinion.

[WRBlue]

What mods should I stay away from if I don't want to see "Yaris Eaters" at the Auto-X lot?

You can never get away from them. But these would be my mods:

R-Compounds on stock size wheels (any different size wheels will re-class you)
TRD shocks and springs. Or Eibach Pro-kit on TRD struts.
Bigger front sway bar once someone releases one (A rear sway will re-class you though)

With practice, that should make a Yaris very competative in H Stock.

Also, I have a friend with an EG6 (JDM-R w/ built internals, light suspension mods and 60shot ZEX) and he keeps on telling me that an EG6 will take over the Auto-X track over any car in its class? Is this true or is he just being Ricer? (He doesn't auto x BTW.)

The only class that the Civic dominates is STS and then the EG is too heavy. His particular car is only legal in SM or a Mod class, if he takes out the N2O, and will get destroyed easily.

That said, 95% of autoX is the driver

[Sleeper]

gosh, if you want to learn auto-x, buy a used miata or even a celica and go beat it up. You'll spend less than you would on a new Yaris with mods, and I believe a Miata with suspension work would teach you more about racing. Just my opinion.

I agree with this above post, driving a RWD car made for a little bit of abuse will teach you more about driving than a FWD car made with taking you to the grocery store and work and back. The Yaris isn't meant for this kind of thing and probably can never seriously compete without serious modifications.

That said, 95% of autoX is the driver

While that is true, I'll bet money you could put Michael Schumacher in a stock Yaris and he'd still get demolished by a teenager driving a stock Mini Cooper as long as said teen didn't crash or go off the track. No matter how much one may want to escape the fact, the Yaris is slow and is not made for racing by any means.

I suggest a cheap, light RWD car with a manual transmission and no ABS for learning how to drive properly on the track, the Yaris is the wrong car for the job.

[kurokoma-kun]

As the owner of 94 Miata, I would agree that anyone wanting to improve driving skills would benefit from driving one. However, as Yaris owner, I'd like to suggest that the jury is still out in how it will perform in autocross; until then, why not give it a try and see how you do?

Here's a little encouragement: the results of Deland Autocross back in March. As you can see, Yaris came out pretty well (a class of 4 cars would be about average in my area too). :thumbsup: :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup: :thumbsup:

Besides, isn't beating your own best time the real challenge in autocross?

[HTM Yaris]

The Yaris is excellent at Autox . I got 2 wins in HS . I got a 6th and 7th OVERALL out of 150 or so cars . All 5 and 6 drivers that bested my time were national champs . One of the national champs wants to drive my car b/c he said my car is definately National Champ material . We think we can get FTD .

I went to the Dragon again this past weekend . There was a guy in a Turbo charged (300bhp) Volvo S70 up there . He wanted to run against me . So we went . I was up front . Going into and exiting turns I would walk him , but turbo would help him run me down . Then I let him up front . He NEVER got more than 5 cars in front . In the turns I would be right back on his ass . I would actually have to slow down when I caught him . We all know how the Yaris accelerates :frown: The Volvo owner was shocked when I told him I only had 103 hp . The Volvo owner has this battle on video . I don't know if he will release the vid b/c I was definately holding my own , with only 103 hp . Next time , I will bring my dry tires :smile:

[kurokoma-kun]

I got a 6th and 7th OVERALL out of 150 or so cars
whoo doggies!!! :clap: :clap:

[WRBlue]

I agree with this above post, driving a RWD car made for a little bit of abuse will teach you more about driving than a FWD car made with taking you to the grocery store and work and back. The Yaris isn't meant for this kind of thing and probably can never seriously compete without serious modifications.

Anything can be competaive locally. The MOST important part is that the car is well sorted. Something that you know is the case with a brand new Yaris. Something that is probally not the case with a 15 year old Miata. The biggest thing to learn from is seat time. It doesn't matter much what the car was built for, seat time is what really matters in learning.

While that is true, I'll bet money you could put Michael Schumacher in a stock Yaris and he'd still get demolished by a teenager driving a stock Mini Cooper as long as said teen didn't crash or go off the track. No matter how much one may want to escape the fact, the Yaris is slow and is not made for racing by any means.

I might have been a little generous with the 95% driver. It could be 90% driver, 8% tires, 1 % car and 1% luck. Schumacher would be a bad choice. Now if you picked a FWD national champ, put them in a Yaris, they would beat a teen (thats not a FJB/FJA national champ) by 10+ seconds over a 40 second course. By the last comment, I can guess you've never been to an autox where a good driver was driving a normal car. 2 weekends ago at an SFR event, I watched a guy in a Kia Rio Wagon beat me in my DS WRX, a number of ST* cars, a number of SM cars, and a number of Super Stock (and A, B, C, etc)

I suggest a cheap, light RWD car with a manual transmission and no ABS for learning how to drive properly on the track, the Yaris is the wrong car for the job.

We're not talking track, we're talking autox which is a totally different beast all together.

[mojoyaris]

I run my car in STS and have a friendly rivalry with some of the other drivers in my class. I don't really have any competition with the G and H stock class and I out ran the 911, Audi TT and Subaru Impreza wagon. My competition I find in STS are the Civics and the Acura's. It also depends on the track layout so I prefer the track layout that is tight. I run with 215 x 45 x 16 in tires on Falken 615's which I use as a track tire only. My street rubbers are 17 inchers.

With the big brake kit, I'll be in STX according to CACC rules (Canada, but they're all the same, pretty much). Believe it or not there's alot less competition there! I have a 07 GTI to worry about there and he's got HP to go.

It does come down to the driver. Driving fast is one thing but knowing when to brake, when to turn and how to take your line are all important factors.

You won't beat a Miata or Lotus that's for sure.

Just don't brake while your are turning and learn to adjust your tire pressures to balance out your car and you won't really need to worry about all those addons like roll bars. R comps are nice too or just a set of Falken 615's.

[HTM Yaris]

:headbang:

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/Dragon-t77836.html

[cali yaris]

good comments, and I do look forward to seeing what the Yaris can do on the track. I was at a Time Attack event and the Kaminari Yaris did ok. As noted, fast in the turns, slow on the straights -- nothing a little boost can't fix. :wink:

[WRBlue]

And that has nothing to do with this thread. autox != track

[Sleeper]

By the last comment, I can guess you've never been to an autox where a good driver was driving a normal car.
-snip-
We're not talking track, we're talking autox which is a totally different beast all together.

You do have me on the first point, I've never been to an AutoX with anything more than a couple of good drivers and a bunch of dumbass ricers and boy-racers in their rebadged econoboxes were putting around the track with helmets on, but going too slow to need them... I've seen good drivers on video though.

However, I consider AutoX very similar to track racing. Both are done in controlled courses and in classes to prevent unfair advantages.

An aside though, I used to do plenty of dirt track racing and autocross (albeit less structured, and more just for fun) in my younger years. I had my own almost completely scratch built Sprint Car for some time... Which brings me to something else, you know how they say the Japanese invented drifting? They're wrong, if you have ever been to a dirt track you'll know what I'm talking about. I was powersliding a 400hp sprint car around an oval track before the word "drifting" was applied to anything but smoke and boats.

[WRBlue]

However, I consider AutoX very similar to track racing. Both are done in controlled courses and in classes to prevent unfair advantages.

But they use very different skill sets ;)

An aside though, I used to do plenty of dirt track racing and autocross (albeit less structured, and more just for fun) in my younger years. I had my own almost completely scratch built Sprint Car for some time... Which brings me to something else, you know how they say the Japanese invented drifting? They're wrong, if you have ever been to a dirt track you'll know what I'm talking about. I was powersliding a 400hp sprint car around an oval track before the word "drifting" was applied to anything but smoke and boats.

The Japanese started drifting in the mid 70s. But Outlaws are much better at it ;) And it took about 25 years for it to come here.

[kurokoma-kun]

these would be my mods:...TRD shocks and springs. Or Eibach Pro-kit on TRD struts....Bigger front sway bar once someone releases one (A rear sway will re-class you though)

WR, what is your opinion of the tanabe NF210's for auto-x application? And which shocks to go with them?

I embarrassed to admit that I prefer the tanabe's over the TRD's just becasue they are blue instead of red :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: sorry, a girl after all

[WRBlue]

I think the NF's are better than stock, but not nearly as good as the TRD springs. They just aren't as stiff = more body roll = not as big of contact patch on the tires in corners = tire spin = slower.

BTW - I keep thinking your name is Tachikoma :D

[kurokoma-kun]

I think the NF's are better than stock, but not nearly as good as the TRD springs. They just aren't as stiff = more body roll = not as big of contact patch on the tires in corners = tire spin = slower.

Thanks for info, WR. I guess TRD it is! This was actually my first choice anyway, then I (almost) got caught up in the fashion aspect over form/function <glup> :eek:

Me and a friend took our cars out last night to run up and down best mountain road nearby and I noticed something bizarre about that body roll--if you go in really reeallly tight on a corner, it actually starts to lean in! Too bad they paved recently--no more gutter run for me! :laugh: :mad: :laugh:

[Russelt3hPirate]

You can't change springs in stock class.

if you want to run Street Prepared, you'll be in FSP.

on a local level you should be able to compete in FSP with some nice meats (r-comps), good suspension and harness.

[bearda]

You can never get away from them. But these would be my mods:

R-Compounds on stock size wheels (any different size wheels will re-class you)
TRD shocks and springs. Or Eibach Pro-kit on TRD struts.
Bigger front sway bar once someone releases one (A rear sway will re-class you though)

With practice, that should make a Yaris very competative in H Stock.


I don't really understand SCCA classing rules well, but they're pretty strict for stock classes. When I found out replacing my pedals threw me in with WRXs I started looking at local clubs...

[Russelt3hPirate]

what pedal?

and why would you be with WRXs that are in STX?

and the springs would throw that car in an FSP due to the r-comps.

[bearda]

what pedal?

and why would you be with WRXs that are in STX?

and the springs would throw that car in an FSP due to the r-comps.

Sorry, I meant pedals.

And on second thought you're right, it looks like I would have been bumped to STS while the WRX starts in STX. I was talking it over with a friend who autocrosses regularly; maybe he got confused between STS and STX, or the WRX and the base Impreza.

In any event, STS still sounds like a scary class to compete against just because of a pedal kit...

[cc700]

sts is wrx, stx is sti.

the yaris is definitely the cheapest car that has potential, but i'd place it at the back of the pack, even for h stock. i'm biased though because to me winning isn't important, competing for your own enjoyment and bettering your technique is. i don't care what cars are faster than me.

[kurokoma-kun]

competing for your own enjoyment and bettering your technique is

What a great attitude, I wish all my sports opponents had felt that way. :smile:

[bearda]

sts is wrx, stx is sti.

The STi is listed as an example of a car excluded from STX, that can't be right...

[WRBlue]

The STi is in STU
Bug Eye and 04-05 WRX are in STX
06+ WRX are in STU

The only turbo cars allowed in STS are 1.8L's
Turbos up to 2.0L are STX
Turbos up to 3.1L are STU, that why the 06+ WRX are STU, they have a 2.5L like the STi.

[KS SOLO]

I am running in STS, I have been much slower than a few of the cars at the Divisional level, although I blame some of that on the tires I am running, several were running the new Bridgestones god they are almost as sticky as my V700 were, and also a loose nut behind the wheel. My daughter has done well against her STS-L competition. The Civic is really the car to have in STS still. I think the thing that really works against us is the high CG, all that big damn heavy glass up so high, and also the suspension adjustments. Will be working on some more mods to see how much closer I can get. I am in 3rd place for the Division now though. I think a car with some V710's and some shocks and rear bar would do nice in H-Stock, perhaps not against the mini's yet. The thing I would like to work on is to get the TRD options sanctioned and approved for H-Stock, the mini's get to order factory upgrade suspension and that really puts us at a disadvantage. I will let everyone know the outcome and perhaps you can even comment to the board.

[WRBlue]

Rear bar changes aren't allowed in stock, only front.

The MINI cooper S is being re-classed, I think its only time till the base is re-classed too ;)

[bearda]

The thing I would like to work on is to get the TRD options sanctioned and approved for H-Stock, the mini's get to order factory upgrade suspension and that really puts us at a disadvantage. I will let everyone know the outcome and perhaps you can even comment to the board.

Fairness aside I can see how it would make sense from the SCCA's perspective. The Sport Suspension+ package was a factory option, like getting power windows on the Yaris. The TRD parts are an OEM accessory. The difference seems to be that TRD parts are dealer installed, and the SS+ isn't.

[graywolf_14]

Yeah I was woundering if you could get all the trd parts and still be in the stock class. It is technicaly factory parts so I dont see why not.

[blueskana]

I thought mini/mini-s was in GS? Thankfully they are around here :)

[WRBlue]

Nope, just the S for now. Base MINI's are HS. The JCW S's are in B Stock

There is a proposal to move the S, the JCW S, and the S Works GP Package into D Stock

[blueskana]

Reclassing the base would be nice.