MCM's 2ZR swap

[eTiMaGo]

I wonder if the guys are trolling here :biggrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SwJ0Xo3Xls&t=0s

They make it look so easy!

[CrankyOldMan]

It would be silly if they're not. The overall attitude of the build being "we don't know if it will work" or "there are rumors on the internet that it can be done" is a bit offputting thought it was almost certainly done on purpose to keep people watching.

We've busted our asses over here to prove that it can be done many times. It would be nice to get acknowledgement for the work we've done, even if only a nod. "A certain Yaris-based online community has well documented evidence that it can be done" or something. /rant

[myfirstyota]

You're welcome!

[kevinj93]

Not an easy mod here in Australia. The xD was never sold here so the required engine mount needs to be sourced from overseas, or fabricated like MCM did.

The local authorities don't look kindly on engine swaps or modifications. If the vehicle's power is increased by more than 20%, the vehicle needs to be certified by an approved engineer that it is safe and meets pollution control limits.

[stidnam]

It's not too hard to source the parts. They can all be obtained through North Shore Toyota in NZ and shipped over :). Though it's a 4 - 6 week wait.

The MCM guys would have clearly read through the main 2ZR threads on this forum to glean what they needed to do. I could have even supplied them my 2ZR engine mount and cooling system hoses etc at replacement cost if the opportunity had arisen.

Given the immobiliser computer was plug and play, I bet they could have even got away with registering the corolla ECU to the Yaris immobiliser computer in the same way Adam did. No dodgy key jiggery then.

They didn't really cover what they did with the exhaust, but I'm assuming they used the cat and down pipe from the Corolla and then welded on the 2" pipe from there.

Would be interesting to see how they wired in the radiator fan and whether they used the corolla fan controller.

All in all, good on em. I hope they read this thread as well, and if they do, please hook a haltech elite 1500 up to it and turbo it!

[Leegamer]

Awesome episode

[malibuguy]

I enjoyed it. Adds to thinking about sticking this motor in my 4dr tercel

[Leegamer]

It has renewed my interest in doing the swap. I have to get my Z31 put back together first, though so I can have something else to drive while the yaris is down.

[ern-diz]

It would be silly if they're not. The overall attitude of the build being "we don't know if it will work" or "there are rumors on the internet that it can be done" is a bit offputting thought it was almost certainly done on purpose to keep people watching.

We've busted our asses over here to prove that it can be done many times. It would be nice to get acknowledgement for the work we've done, even if only a nod. "A certain Yaris-based online community has well documented evidence that it can be done" or something. /rant

+1000000

Not that I had anything to do with that swap's R&D, but the point is valid.

[06YarisRS]

It would be silly if they're not. The overall attitude of the build being "we don't know if it will work" or "there are rumors on the internet that it can be done" is a bit offputting thought it was almost certainly done on purpose to keep people watching.

We've busted our asses over here to prove that it can be done many times. It would be nice to get acknowledgement for the work we've done, even if only a nod. "A certain Yaris-based online community has well documented evidence that it can be done" or something. /rant

I think we should comment on their video. I'd just love to mention that if they want even more HP, drop a turbo on the 2ZR. I think I might post, and mention YW.

EDIT: I posted giving credit where credit is due. Also a little plug for my car. :tongue:

[myfirstyota]

I think we should comment on their video. I'd just love to mention that if they want even more HP, drop a turbo on the 2ZR. I think I might post, and mention YW.

EDIT: I posted giving credit where credit is due. Also a little plug for my car. :tongue:

Atta boy!

[CrankyOldMan]

Not an easy mod here in Australia. The xD was never sold here so the required engine mount needs to be sourced from overseas, or fabricated like MCM did.

The local authorities don't look kindly on engine swaps or modifications. If the vehicle's power is increased by more than 20%, the vehicle needs to be certified by an approved engineer that it is safe and meets pollution control limits.
But if the goal is an offroad/track toy, there shouldn't be anything stopping you. =)

[kevinj93]

But if the goal is an offroad/track toy, there shouldn't be anything stopping you. =)

It's my daily driver and tow car for my sailing boat. We get the real Yaris here in Australia, currently only available as a 4 door hatchback. The local tow hitch manufacturers state their hitches do not fit the current model due to the different rear bumper to earlier models, so I will wait and see if a tow hitch is available for the GR Yaris due to arrive late this year...

[fredovvti]

They make another video installing a turbo from ebay to Yaris Hiltom

[eTiMaGo]

They make another video installing a turbo from ebay to Yaris Hiltom

Pretty good video, does show how much "easier" a pre-made kit can be!

I had a good laugh in the beginning when Marty said something like "Yaris guys will be sure to let us know", a possible dig at this thread? :laugh:

Anyway, will be really interesting to see how they work out the engine management, really looking forward to the next part!

[CrankyOldMan]

I was pretty excited to see it as well. I'm also interested in their engine management choice since I might want to go standalone on my track toy some day.

[mitch9521]

I'm very curious to see what numbers its gonna put down on the dyno.

[Leegamer]

I'm sure they'll use haltech.

[06YarisRS]

I'm very curious to see what numbers its gonna put down on the dyno.

Me too! To soon to guess without knowing management and tune/boost etc. I wonder if they'll push it up to around 10 - 12 psi. Definitely subscribed.

[eTiMaGo]

I'm sure they'll use haltech.

Yep, I think I heard them mention it. And anyway, who else would they use? :biggrin:

[06YarisRS]

Yep, I think I heard them mention it. And anyway, who else would they use? :biggrin:

Haha. Is Haltech an Aussie product? Did we talk before about the ECUMaster Black?

[myfirstyota]

Haha. Is Haltech an Aussie product? Did we talk before about the ECUMaster Black?

Pretty sure haltech is Australian

[tmontague]

Haltech seems to be the real deal but the price also reflects that. I've been eyeing the ecumaster stuff lately, price of very good for what they offer

[eTiMaGo]

Haltech is Australian, they also sponsor and work closely with the MCM guys, so it's only natural they will use their products :)

But for us mere mortals, ECUmaster is looking gooood

[mitch9521]

Me too! To soon to guess without knowing management and tune/boost etc. I wonder if they'll push it up to around 10 - 12 psi. Definitely subscribed.

Does the 2ZR-FE have decent rods or are they made of cardboard like the 1NZ and blow up before 10psi?

[06YarisRS]

Does the 2ZR-FE have decent rods or are they made of cardboard like the 1NZ and blow up before 10psi?

All I know is that the MonkeyWrench Racing guys say that there are a lot of stock 2ZR-FE engines with the turbo kit and minimal failures, assuming a good tune. I was inquiring about my transmission's ability to handle the extra torque. They said that over 275 HP the automatic transmissions started to slip. Despite what they said, I personally wouldn't trust it much beyond 220 - 230 HP. I believe that the engines up to 275 HP were not built engines. I deduced that the engine could therefore hold together up to 275 HP. I would feel reasonably comfortable at 250 crank HP with a good tune, good fuel, decent intake temps and not constantly thrashing on it. By extension, my guess is that the engine should handle 12, maybe 14 psi. Again, very good tune, minimal thrashing. All of this is pure supposition on my part, however. That said, I don't think either MWR or Turbokits would be selling these kits (8.6 psi), intended for a stock engine, if there wasn't some headroom there. It could ruin your rep pretty quickly with a lot of early failures.

[06YarisRS]

Haltech seems to be the real deal but the price also reflects that. I've been eyeing the ecumaster stuff lately, price of very good for what they offer

Yup, the ECUMaster Black looks, at first appearance, to be a good candidate at a reasonable price compared to the Haltech Elite 1500, which I believe is the minimum Haltech unit capable of DBW.

[myfirstyota]

I'd figure 275 hp on stock internals would hold up aswell. If lotus can slap a magnuson supercharger on the stock 2zr, tune it to 220 horse and back it with a warranty, it must be able to handle more.

[06YarisRS]

I'd figure 275 hp on stock internals would hold up aswell. If lotus can slap a magnuson supercharger on the stock 2zr, tune it to 220 horse and back it with a warranty, it must be able to handle more.

Excellent point! :thumbsup:

[mitch9521]

250hp to the crank is PLENTY in my opinion for these cars, they are super light and FWD. I tend to prefer a well balanced drivable car over an overpowered death trap, but whatever.

[tmontague]

250hp to the crank is PLENTY in my opinion for these cars, they are super light and FWD. I tend to prefer a well balanced drivable car over an overpowered death trap, but whatever.

I fully agree.

[06YarisRS]

250hp to the crank is PLENTY in my opinion for these cars, they are super light and FWD. I tend to prefer a well balanced drivable car over an overpowered death trap, but whatever.

I am at approximately 170 - 175 wheel now and I can tell you that I wouldn't want any more. Although torque steer isn't a major issue now, wheel spin limits acceleration as it is. As mentioned before, an LSD would go a long way. But, yeah, much more would be wasted and potentially dangerous.

[myfirstyota]

250hp to the crank is PLENTY in my opinion for these cars, they are super light and FWD. I tend to prefer a well balanced drivable car over an overpowered death trap, but whatever.

Have you ever been in an over powered death trap?
My buddy has a 500+hp golf.... I have no words for that pile of awesomeness

[06YarisRS]

MCM's new episode is up. I messaged them on their Facebook page asking them if they'd be kind enough to mention my build and give Yarisworld a pump since I'd be hard pressed to believe that they were unaware of all the work and research that's gone on on this site. They appear to be ignoring me. Am I expecting too much? Am I acting like a cry baby here? Would simply recognizing other peoples' contributions be too threatening? Help me out here guys. Give me some perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6D9pB5Ig9Q

[CrankyOldMan]

I agree that it would be "right" for them to at least give credit for any info they got here, but that's the academic in me. =)

I look at their subscriber count on YT (3M+) and assume that they either have someone else to monitor/screen it or just ignore it entirely. You'd basically have to have their DMs to even show up on their radar. I don't think they'd ignore you out of spite, it's just that the signal to noise ratio on something like that is really poor (i.e. lots of noise).

[06YarisRS]

I agree that it would be "right" for them to at least give credit for any info they got here, but that's the academic in me. =)

I look at their subscriber count on YT (3M+) and assume that they either have someone else to monitor/screen it or just ignore it entirely. You'd basically have to have their DMs to even show up on their radar. I don't think they'd ignore you out of spite, it's just that the signal to noise ratio on something like that is really poor (i.e. lots of noise).

Ah Sam. You are wise indeed. What you say makes perfect sense to me. What are "DMs"? Sorry for my ignorance.

[eTiMaGo]

MCM's new episode is up. I messaged them on their Facebook page asking them if they'd be kind enough to mention my build and give Yarisworld a pump since I'd be hard pressed to believe that they were unaware of all the work and research that's gone on on this site. They appear to be ignoring me. Am I expecting too much? Am I acting like a cry baby here? Would simply recognizing other peoples' contributions be too threatening? Help me out here guys. Give me some perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6D9pB5Ig9Q

It is indeed difficult to get in touch, but they do drop in the facebook group on occasion. I did drop several messages about YW and some of the awesome projects here, after they introduced the car...

Anyway, with so many fans, can't be easy to keep up with all messages, I don't take it personally!

[CrankyOldMan]

Ah Sam. You are wise indeed. What you say makes perfect sense to me. What are "DMs"? Sorry for my ignorance.

I'm not so sure about wise, I just learn a lot of things the hard way. =)

It's kidspeak for Direct Messaging. I think there's a distinction in younger generations between instant messaging (IM) as we knew it and DM because things like Twitter and Instagram are both instant messaging but are broadcast to a public audience, whereas something like FB Messenger or your phone number would be private and therefore "direct" to the recipient. Messenger clients on a public page can get billions of hits from bots or spammers so they probably filter a lot of it out.

[06YarisRS]

It is indeed difficult to get in touch, but they do drop in the facebook group on occasion. I did drop several messages about YW and some of the awesome projects here, after they introduced the car...

Anyway, with so many fans, can't be easy to keep up with all messages, I don't take it personally!

Sounds like you have a very good perspective on this.

[06YarisRS]

I'm not so sure about wise, I just learn a lot of things the hard way. =)

It's kidspeak for Direct Messaging. I think there's a distinction in younger generations between instant messaging (IM) as we knew it and DM because things like Twitter and Instagram are both instant messaging but are broadcast to a public audience, whereas something like FB Messenger or your phone number would be private and therefore "direct" to the recipient. Messenger clients on a public page can get billions of hits from bots or spammers so they probably filter a lot of it out.

Thanks for the info. I am woefully lacking in my current understanding of all this stuff.

[06YarisRS]

I agree that it would be "right" for them to at least give credit for any info they got here, but that's the academic in me. =)

I look at their subscriber count on YT (3M+) and assume that they either have someone else to monitor/screen it or just ignore it entirely. You'd basically have to have their DMs to even show up on their radar. I don't think they'd ignore you out of spite, it's just that the signal to noise ratio on something like that is really poor (i.e. lots of noise).

Speaking of "noise", for fun I took a few minutes and read some of the replies. I think I may have gotten your point now. A huge percentage of them are people commenting on either duct tape or the fact that a box moved by itself. Seemingly much less interest in the substance of the video as opposed to tidbits of 'humour' or "easter eggs'. Kind of a shame but I guess if that's what the people want, so be it. I never really scrutinized comments in videos before as I guess my interest laid in the content. That's what I like about places like Yarisworld...more pointed discussion/focus and less "noise". It seems that to appeal to a broader audience, and get the subscribers, 'style over substance' seems to be the approach. Don't get me wrong, they have the content, but by adding the 'style', what they gain in subscribers, they lose in depth or at least in the ability to engage in any deeper conversation about the topic. Or, they get the best of both worlds. I am truly naive when it comes to these things. I can be a little slow on the uptake at times, but think that's why some here have expressed that Youtube or Facebook don't hold the appeal when compared to forums, for example.

[eTiMaGo]

Speaking of "noise", for fun I took a few minutes and read some of the replies. I think I may have gotten your point now. A huge percentage of them are people commenting on either duct tape or the fact that a box moved by itself. Seemingly much less interest in the substance of the video as opposed to tidbits of 'humour' or "easter eggs'. Kind of a shame but I guess if that's what the people want, so be it. I never really scrutinized comments in videos before as I guess my interest laid in the content. That's what I like about places like Yarisworld...more pointed discussion/focus and less "noise". It seems that to appeal to a broader audience, and get the subscribers, 'style over substance' seems to be the approach. Don't get me wrong, they have the content, but by adding the 'style', what they gain in subscribers, they lose in depth or at least in the ability to engage in any deeper conversation about the topic. Or, they get the best of both worlds. I am truly naive when it comes to these things. I can be a little slow on the uptake at times, but think that's why some here have expressed that Youtube or Facebook don't hold the appeal when compared to forums, for example.

You could try to join their facebook group, while there's also some nonsense there, there are some more technical discussions compared to youtube comments. There's some questions when you try to join, based on the cars they have done on the show, if you are stuck, I could try to help :)

[benoityip]

https://youtu.be/M0EBnnleQWc

https://youtu.be/j6D9pB5Ig9Q

[benoityip]

New episode 138kw at the wheels (stock is 70kw)
https://youtu.be/K4UQsAe9-E4

[stidnam]

New episode 138kw at the wheels (stock is 70kw)
https://youtu.be/K4UQsAe9-E4

Damnit, you ruined the surprise :P

[eTiMaGo]

200hp, not too bad, but looks like they were playing it safe... Which, judging by the after-credits scene, failed miserably!

[kevinj93]

It didn't sound healthy.

They kept mentioning the $169 turbo, but never mentioned the cost of the Haltech ECU.

[stidnam]

It didn't sound healthy.

They kept mentioning the $169 turbo, but never mentioned the cost of the Haltech ECU.

lol that it did not. I wonder if they found the limit of a 2zr :)

[06YarisRS]

lol that it did not. I wonder if they found the limit of a 2zr :)

I sure hope that's not the limit. But it was an older engine and you never know what shape it was in originally. I can't see the failure being caused by the Haltach technician. Surely those guys could see detonation coming before it occured. I'd love to see the dyno sheet if it had info on AFR.

[Leegamer]

It didn't sound healthy.

They kept mentioning the $169 turbo, but never mentioned the cost of the Haltech ECU.

Haltech is probably free or very discounted for them.

eBay turbos aren't always bad, but one that cheap is destined to fail. Check out the turbos that the BoostedBoiz and PFI Speed are using from ebay. Several cars making 1000whp with honda K series and ebay turbos pretty reliably.

[CrankyOldMan]

It's probably not the limit of the 2ZR. Lotus runs the Series 3 Elise up to 186 kW (at the crank) with a supercharger. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't ship production vehicles at the ragged edge of performance. =)

[benoityip]

I am planning to use haltech, not sure how they get around any check engine lights or other lights.

[stidnam]

It's probably not the limit of the 2ZR. Lotus runs the Series 3 Elise up to 186 kW (at the crank) with a supercharger. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't ship production vehicles at the ragged edge of performance. =)

Surely Lotus would be not be using off the shelf 2zr motors though. I'd love it if they are as point proven, but surely not if punching out 186kw in a track car.

[Ausecho]

Lotus uses the 2ZZGE motor with VVTLi , different motor .

[stidnam]

Lotus uses the 2ZZGE motor with VVTLi , different motor .

Will just leave this here for you ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise#Cup_260

[06YarisRS]

Will just leave this here for you ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise#Cup_260

Yes, I've shared that !ink a few times too. A lot of people seem to be convinced that only the 2ZZ was used.

[mitch9521]

Lotus uses the 2ZZGE motor with VVTLi , different motor .

2011+ Elise use the 2ZR-FE with a blower.

[benoityip]

Surely Lotus would be not be using off the shelf 2zr motors though. I'd love it if they are as point proven, but surely not if punching out 186kw in a track car.


I don't think lotus change the motor, they even keep the stock exhaust header, which is very restricted

[kevinj93]

MCM posted a new video today. The bad knocking noise was the Air Conditioning compressor.

[eTiMaGo]

I was thinking of doing the exact same setup with the wheels, glad to see how good it looks!

[06YarisRS]

The final series is up. I'm losing it again! I've likely committed youtube suicide, assuming anyone even sees my post. They basically call Yari pieces of sh*t and I went off half-cocked (well maybe). I'll probably get flamed for my comments or my post deleted. I really have zero respect for MCM after this series. Yes, I'm probably over-reacting, but I love these little cars and this whole MCM series left a bad taste in my mouth for a number of reasons: 1) acting like the swap had never been done before 2) suggesting over and over that they got 200hp with a $169.00 turbo (talk about click bait!), not answering anyone's questions about costs (specifically the Haltech), 4) and, of course, the icing on the cake; calling our cars shit and 5) a fact that will likely be lost on most of their fans - that their fans can likely only afford to buy and modify these "pieces of sh*t cars. MCM = Style over substance all the way! Here's my 'submission:

"TOTAL PIECES OF SH*T? REALLY?! That comment sort of sealed it for me. The initial concept was great and it was enjoyable to watch the series (purely from an entertainment perspective - MCM surely does have the technical/graphic/sound and humour end of things nailed), but unfortunately we'll probably never know what really happened. Why? Because in my opinion, MCM doesn't really care about it other than its currency in "views". In many ways this series trivializes engine swap and turbo builds on inexpensive cars; cars that likely their average fan/subscriber could afford to buy and do preformance work on. The comment about spending too much money on cars that are a "total piece[s] of shit"" is insulting and just plain wrong. Great if you have an endless budget through advertising dollars and can buy and build whatever you want. There is nothing wrong with a turbo'd Toyota 2ZR engine and it's been proven over and over. There is a huge community of people who have invested time in performance modifications to these cars and in one fell swoop, MCM has, in a sense, made a mockery of their efforts. What octane fuel was used? Where were the AFR and oil pressure gauges? Could compressor surge have played a roll since the car didn't seem to have a BOV (damaged turbo CMHA, again, we'll probably never know) . I will give them that they did say they were using a "wrecker-spec'd engine" and it had been "thrashed", but rather than bashing poor Yaris Hilton, why not suggest that the tired engine may have been the failure then investigate. God knows, enough people have already asked for a tear down and explanation of the failure right in the comments. I had high hopes in the beginning that this would increase awareness about the potential of this platform, and I guess in some ways it did that, but style over real substance seems to have prevailed. Over and over, people inquired about the actual cost associated with the build, yet their queries went unanswered. I think some people genuinely wanted to know and would have appreciated an answer; maybe considered a build themselves. Sad, Sad, Sad. I'm sure I'll get the "thumbs down" for this and maybe my post deleted. Oh well."

[eTiMaGo]

triggered much? :eek:

Now, before I sound too much like an MCM fanboi, I agree with you on many points, that "piece of shit" comment was a bit harsh, especially after they did one of their most detailed and polished builds. So I guess it was meant to be more tongue-in-cheek :iono: After all, for the whole series until that point, they were super positive, and impressed by the final performance of the car.

Anyway, if you look at their other builds, many of them follow the same kind of format, apart from their "hero" cars, they often just disappear into obscurity. We just want to know more more more about the Yaris, because it's *our* car and we are one pretty close-knit community!

As for your points:

1) Yeah, some kind of nod to the die-hard Yaris fans over here would have been nice. Heck even in their own forums, and at their last meet, there was another turboe'd Yaris, I don't think that got mentioned at all...

2) Comes with the Youtube territory I guess :frown:

3) Hardware cost is not hard to figure out. I *think* the turbo was $169 :biggrin: As for the Haltech 750, it's listed on their site at $1099 - $1469 depending on your harness choice. Anyway as you know, the biggest costs in a build won't be the hardware, but the time and expertise needed to get things done, and that's hard to put a price tag on.

At the end, it's entertainment. I tend to view MCM as something close to Top Gear, a show in the world of cars, but also not really about cars... If anything, they have shown to millions of people that you can take a "shitty" modern econobox that's not a Honda Civic and turn it into something pretty impressive!

Thankfully there are tons of other channels with more serious mechanical content!

[06YarisRS]

triggered much? :eek:

Now, before I sound too much like an MCM fanboi, I agree with you on many points, that "piece of shit" comment was a bit harsh, especially after they did one of their most detailed and polished builds. So I guess it was meant to be more tongue-in-cheek :iono: After all, for the whole series until that point, they were super positive, and impressed by the final performance of the car.

Anyway, if you look at their other builds, many of them follow the same kind of format, apart from their "hero" cars, they often just disappear into obscurity. We just want to know more more more about the Yaris, because it's *our* car and we are one pretty close-knit community!

As for your points:

1) Yeah, some kind of nod to the die-hard Yaris fans over here would have been nice. Heck even in their own forums, and at their last meet, there was another turboe'd Yaris, I don't think that got mentioned at all...

2) Comes with the Youtube territory I guess :frown:

3) Hardware cost is not hard to figure out. I *think* the turbo was $169 :biggrin: As for the Haltech 750, it's listed on their site at $1099 - $1469 depending on your harness choice. Anyway as you know, the biggest costs in a build won't be the hardware, but the time and expertise needed to get things done, and that's hard to put a price tag on.

At the end, it's entertainment. I tend to view MCM as something close to Top Gear, a show in the world of cars, but also not really about cars... If anything, they have shown to millions of people that you can take a "shitty" modern econobox that's not a Honda Civic and turn it into something pretty impressive!

Thankfully there are tons of other channels with more serious mechanical content!

Yeah. I get too easily wound up. Gotta chill! I am glad that the platform got exposure and I guess we can thank MCM for that. I've received quite a few inquiries from people interested in builds like this and ours. So, that's definitely a.plus. I direct them to yarisworld as the source of knowledge and inspiration. Also, I shouldn't complain too much as it's provided me with and opportunity to scam hits for my own channel. I'm as bad as I'm accusing them of being.

[eTiMaGo]

It's all good, we'll have to carry the torch :biggrin:

[benoityip]

As an Australian where MCM is located, corolla engine is not welcomed by tuners and car modification.
This is a culture that is different from US and Asian countries. I have been modding my corolla for a long time, most tuners turn me away, saying that they don't want to mod a corolla.

Not many people know the engine is used in a lotus, so the corolla engine is not welcomed.

If you modify a corolla or yaris, they are thinking there is something wrong with you in australia

[mitch9521]

MCM was great in the earlier years when they were all about budget, DIY builds. They've lost what made them great and refreshing to watch. I was hoping with this Yaris build they were going back to their roots a bit.

But nope, its all about money and views now.

[06YarisRS]

As an Australian where MCM is located, corolla engine is not welcomed by tuners and car modification.
This is a culture that is different from US and Asian countries. I have been modding my corolla for a long time, most tuners turn me away, saying that they don't want to mod a corolla.

Not many people know the engine is used in a lotus, so the corolla engine is not welcomed.

If you modify a corolla or yaris, they are thinking there is something wrong with you in australia

That's a shame, really. How common are the Yaris and Corolla in Australia? If it's common, I'm surprised it hasn't taken hold as a platform to modify. Thanks for the insight!

[06YarisRS]

MCM was great in the earlier years when they were all about budget, DIY builds. They've lost what made them great and refreshing to watch. I was hoping with this Yaris build they were going back to their roots a bit.

But nope, its all about money and views now.

Amen! I guess if you were really all about modifying cars, you wouldn't have that subscriber base. More people seem interested in the easter eggs such as the "ghosts" and "haunted shop", the silly songs and they want to make comments such as "here's Rodney"! Uggh! Comments from knowledgeable/legitimately interested folks are few and far between. Will I still watch MCM? More than likely, because it is entertaining. I'll give it that.

[mitch9521]

Amen! I guess if you were really all about modifying cars, you wouldn't have that subscriber base. More people seem interested in the easter eggs such as the "ghosts" and "haunted shop", the silly songs and they want to make comments such as "here's Rodney"! Uggh! Comments from knowledgeable/legitimately interested folks are few and far between. Will I still watch MCM? More than likely, because it is entertaining. I'll give it that.

Everyone wants to be know it all car guys but don't want to put the effort into actually learning and researching. So they pander to the majority of viewers which are low effort "car guys". Its a shame but thats how it is unfortunately.

[06YarisRS]

Everyone wants to be know it all car guys but don't want to put the effort into actually learning and researching. So they pander to the majority of viewers which are low effort "car guys". Its a shame but thats how it is unfortunately.

More true words were never spoken. MCM does provide a valuable service. It just isn't what I'm looking for.

[benoityip]

That's a shame, really. How common are the Yaris and Corolla in Australia? If it's common, I'm surprised it hasn't taken hold as a platform to modify. Thanks for the insight!

Yaris and corolla are extremely popular, but only limited to simple bolt on.Before 2007, corolla is popular to mod. After 2007 and the new version corolla, the mod community just decline rapidly. It was viewed as a car from point a to point b, and no performance potential.

Look at the latest corolla, the Taiwanese Toyota dealer invites the journalist to test at race track. Here in Australia, it is only see as a point a point b car. The new corolla has 28mm front sway bar and 24mm at the back, it handles really really well.

Funny enough, people here modify a Toyota hilux. Why on earth would you want more power in a hilux?

Honda fit as well, only a few people mod them.

I have been frustrated almost no one in Australia change the camshaft and valve springs for me. And for the one that change the camshaft for me, they take the whole engine out and charged me $$$. The ecu is another big barrier. Because of this MCM episode, I can finally take my car to do an independent ecu tune to one shop.

[tmontague]

Everyone wants to be know it all car guys but don't want to put the effort into actually learning and researching. So they pander to the majority of viewers which are low effort "car guys". Its a shame but that's how it is unfortunately.

much of this is very true but the reality is running a successful YT channel is a completely different thing (as you guys stated above). To keep a YT channel successful you have to cater to the masses and as already pointed out you get further away from actual car people.

In all honesty though, real car people spend more of their time under a car as opposed to sitting in front of a TV watching YT channels, at least relative to the average YT viewer. There are many car channels I used to watch that I no longer find really interesting anymore. Not to sound like I know everything about a car (I do not), but there is very little on YT that isn't something I have either already done or have learned how to do. The more you modify a car the less people online can help you as you chart new territory and the less YT videos will be able to teach you things.

The car community is a hard YT channel business model - it takes a lot of man hours to perform the work, then you have to edit all the while hoping you have enough of a crowd interested in your build. This is why the most successful YT channels are BS Vlogs about gossip garbage. They appeal the the optimal YT viewer of 12-16 years old and the content doesn't need very much editing, you just sit and spew garbage and kids eat it up.

MCM is a business like it or not and they have to adapt to keep the lights on. This means more often uploads, builds the mainstream wants to see and then quick turnover to the next build.

[mitch9521]

much of this is very true but the reality is running a successful YT channel is a completely different thing (as you guys stated above). To keep a YT channel successful you have to cater to the masses and as already pointed out you get further away from actual car people.

In all honesty though, real car people spend more of their time under a car as opposed to sitting in front of a TV watching YT channels, at least relative to the average YT viewer. There are many car channels I used to watch that I no longer find really interesting anymore. Not to sound like I know everything about a car (I do not), but there is very little on YT that isn't something I have either already done or have learned how to do. The more you modify a car the less people online can help you as you chart new territory and the less YT videos will be able to teach you things.

The car community is a hard YT channel business model - it takes a lot of man hours to perform the work, then you have to edit all the while hoping you have enough of a crowd interested in your build. This is why the most successful YT channels are BS Vlogs about gossip garbage. They appeal the the optimal YT viewer of 12-16 years old and the content doesn't need very much editing, you just sit and spew garbage and kids eat it up.

MCM is a business like it or not and they have to adapt to keep the lights on. This means more often uploads, builds the mainstream wants to see and then quick turnover to the next build.

Very true words there. I tend to stick to the smaller channels(under 1 million subs). They seem more genuine and original for the most part.

[benoityip]

I just talk to the turner about standalone ecu in my car. It will take him 5 days to do the wiring and 2 days to do the ecu tuning. It will cost 8000AUD around. MCM reality show does not mention this and make the wiring look easy. With haltech their sponsor, who would spend 8000 just for an ecu.

[06YarisRS]

I just talk to the turner about standalone ecu in my car. It will take him 5 days to do the wiring and 2 days to do the ecu tuning. It will cost 8000AUD around. MCM reality show does not mention this and make the wiring look easy. With haltech their sponsor, who would spend 8000 just for an ecu.

That doesn't sound right at all. Even if that included the cost of the ECU, that's outrageous. I did all of my wiring for the AEM F/IC and it took a total of a few hours to physically do the wiring. Figuring out the wiring from schematics took a few more hours. I did spread this over many days but I was also doing other stuff to the car. Why not ask for a detailed written quote? You could scan it and post it up here. I would love to see that.

Yes, MCM did not mention the $1200.00 ecu or how long it took to wire it and create a basemap and final mapping from scratch. Depending on the ecu you buy, there may be basemaps online that would get your car running, then usually a few hours on the dyno should result in a safe, reliable tune.

[benoityip]

I visited the tuner face to face, and that shop is a reputable shop in Sydney. I ask him many many questions. His answer is around this is a once off job that requires lots of research, and may have some problem to overcome.. Wiring is the most complicated bit. I am not doing a piggy back, I am doing a standalone ECU and require to wire the Drive my wire to increase the RPM limit.

I am in the process of contacting the wiring guru Dave as mentioned in MCM episode.
I also watched that MCM episode again. Judging by the same clothes before and after the wiring, highly likely to be on the same day.

In the MCM episode, Elite 750 does not need to wire Drive By wire throttle. I have special requirement to use Elite 1500 to wire the Drive by wire throttle to increase the rpm limit..The MCM episode said Elite 750 is a piggy back system. I am not sure by adding Drive by wire in the equation, would it make it 10 times more difficult?

Also, that MCM build does not have abs and traction control, whereas my car has those things. The MCM is using a older corolla engine (judging by the oil filter), that corolla does not have abs and traction control. My version of corolla has more safety features, and using a cartilage oil filter.

MCM also use the same wiring diagram in my car (as shown in the pdf in their Macbook)

There is no basemap for this engine, the closest is 3sGE with dual VVTI, but after talking to the sales in Haltech, they told me basemap is not the bottleneck in tuning

I will report back here after talking to Dave, who is working at haltech in Sydney

[tmontague]

That honestly doesn't sound too umrealistic of a price all in. Paying that much you expect it to run flawlessly and that is what they likely are delivering.

You have to factor in the research and time they have to do to make it work. This is something that many of us take for granted as we do it on our spare time and dont really consider it as time on our builds.

This is something that I've been pondering recently about the true cost of me going for a high compression 2zr build down the road. It seems that only way to do this is in stages to spread to cost over time. No way I'm dropping $10k CAD on my track toy. This is with me doing as much labor as possible.

The main issue to cost is the 2zr not being a tuner platform. There is no OTS starting point for engine management. Pay to play for dyno time and a tuner to start from scratch. I've seriously considered a 20 swap but in all reality that seems even more expensive when all said and done

[06YarisRS]

That honestly doesn't sound too umrealistic of a price all in. Paying that much you expect it to run flawlessly and that is what they likely are delivering.

You have to factor in the research and time they have to do to make it work. This is something that many of us take for granted as we do it on our spare time and dont really consider it as time on our builds.

This is something that I've been pondering recently about the true cost of me going for a high compression 2zr build down the road. It seems that only way to do this is in stages to spread to cost over time. No way I'm dropping $10k CAD on my track toy. This is with me doing as much labor as possible.

The main issue to cost is the 2zr not being a tuner platform. There is no OTS starting point for engine management. Pay to play for dyno time and a tuner to start from scratch. I've seriously considered a 20 swap but in all reality that seems even more expensive when all said and done

$7000.00 doesn't sound unrealistic to you for an ECU install and tune? When I spoke to another tuner before embarking on my build, he recommended standalone. He confirmed that the Haltech ECU he was looking (~$1500.00) at supported DBW and he estimated about a day on the dyno tuning. The wiring can't be that much more complicated than the F/IC. In the conversation I had with the tuner, he gave me a quick list of questions and said that if the parameters were met, it would work in my car. Subsequently, he looked up my car and the aftermarket ECU and was convinced they'd work together properly. As far as research goes, isn't that basically looking at wiring diagrams? A professional tuning shop should be well versed in matching up ECUs to a variety of cars. Maybe it's that anti-corolla sentiment in effect. $7000.00 still seems incredibly high. But, it would be nice to see a detailed work order. Maybe they are ballparking really high in case they do run into significant problems.

[tmontague]

$7000.00 doesn't sound unrealistic to you for an ECU install and tune? When I spoke to another tuner before embarking on my build, he recommended standalone. He confirmed that the Haltech ECU he was looking (~$1500.00) at supported DBW and he estimated about a day on the dyno tuning. The wiring can't be that much more complicated than the F/IC. In the conversation I had with the tuner, he gave me a quick list of questions and said that if the parameters were met, it would work in my car. Subsequently, he looked up my car and the aftermarket ECU and was convinced they'd work together properly. As far as research goes, isn't that basically looking at wiring diagrams? A professional tuning shop should be well versed in matching up ECUs to a variety of cars. Maybe it's that anti-corolla sentiment in effect. $7000.00 still seems incredibly high. But, it would be nice to see a detailed work order. Maybe they are ballparking really high in case they do run into significant problems.

Expectations vs reality.

A good tuning shop will know exactly what the reality would be with a swapped engine which now involves an additional wiring diagram and complexities. A good shop is full of work and isn't grasping at work to keep the lights on which makes the cost reflective of what it would cost to be worth it for them. Again, I guarantee this is their all in cost for a well sorted car, not one that has idle issues and ambient temp issues that need to be sorted by the owner.

A standalone is a whole different ball game than a piggyback, they are not even close. Dealing with DBW vs a piggyback which keeps the original ECU in place to manage all of that is apples to oranges. Your build is an example of the above. How much time have you put into making your car driveable and idle properly? Keep in mind this is all on a piggyback and not a standalone. Now think of how much time it would have been for a tuner to do all of that when you factor all of the time in that you spent reading things online and various wiring diagrams.

When you take a step back you are hours upon hours into your build, and all of this is just to get it street driveable, not necessarily ready for the demands of a track and heat soak or various maps. I am no different, but if I expected a shop to do what I did I would expect to pay big $. In the world of tuning and car builds you pay to play...or you do it yourself (and still pay somewhat).

Yes the above quote is a lot of cash but not out of the realm of what I would somewhat expect for a top tuning shop for a ready to go car.

[06YarisRS]

Expectations vs reality.

A good tuning shop will know exactly what the reality would be with a swapped engine which now involves an additional wiring diagram and complexities. A good shop is full of work and isn't grasping at work to keep the lights on which makes the cost reflective of what it would cost to be worth it for them. Again, I guarantee this is their all in cost for a well sorted car, not one that has idle issues and ambient temp issues that need to be sorted by the owner.

A standalone is a whole different ball game than a piggyback, they are not even close. Dealing with DBW vs a piggyback which keeps the original ECU in place to manage all of that is apples to oranges. Your build is an example of the above. How much time have you put into making your car driveable and idle properly? Keep in mind this is all on a piggyback and not a standalone. Now think of how much time it would have been for a tuner to do all of that when you factor all of the time in that you spent reading things online and various wiring diagrams.

When you take a step back you are hours upon hours into your build, and all of this is just to get it street driveable, not necessarily ready for the demands of a track and heat soak or various maps. I am no different, but if I expected a shop to do what I did I would expect to pay big $. In the world of tuning and car builds you pay to play...or you do it yourself (and still pay somewhat).

Yes the above quote is a lot of cash but not out of the realm of what I would somewhat expect for a top tuning shop for a ready to go car.

You make some good points, Trevor. For sure, if I added up my hours, it would represent a lot of time in research. That said, it was all new to me. When I was speaking to the tuner who ultimately DID NOT tune/work on my car, he did say that there were definitely differences between installing a standalone vs a piggyback, but that the major cost difference would come from two main differences: 1) the cost of the hardware and 2) the tuning time as it would be from scratch. However, he may have been more familiar with the Toyota platform. He estimated that he could build a turbo kit for my car, including a standalone computer, tuned and on the road for around $10 000.00. He confirmed that the aftermarket ECU he had in mind could indeed control DBW. Now, this guy runs a small shop and likely doesn't have the overhead or monied customer base that another more established shop would have. I still think that $7000.00 for the install and tuning of an ECU is excessive, but I guess it boils down to what the market will bear.

You are correct in that I did chase a few issues. I suffered idle bucking and found the cure for that (2.2Kohm resistor) on the crank signal wire. I also did have to make alterations to my fuel and timing maps to compensate for the difference between a dyno tune and the street driving realities. So far, I have been extremely fortunate. My car starts virtually as soon as I turn the key, Idle is perfect. What I would like in a standalone - vs the piggyback - though is the ability to control partial boost/partial AFR.

[06YarisRS]

MCM new episode. I may have to change my mind about MCM. This was a good episode!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_RYV3LKD4

[eTiMaGo]

o ye of little faith :p

I'm at work now so will need to wait to watch (extended toilet break, here we come!), but that's a reassuring comment from you!

[mitch9521]

I hope they rebuild it, maybe with a stronger bottom end and keep Yaris Hilton going.

[alias06]

I hope they rebuild it, maybe with a stronger bottom end and keep Yaris Hilton going.

They rarely keep any of the cars that they build. From a financial standpoint it wouldn't make sense to rebuild a car that no one really likes. If they do put it back together I wouldn't be surprised if they toss another 2zr in it, leave it stock, and get rid of it.

[06YarisRS]

They rarely keep any of the cars that they build. From a financial standpoint it wouldn't make sense to rebuild a car that no one really likes. If they do put it back together I wouldn't be surprised if they toss another 2zr in it, leave it stock, and get rid of it.

When you say, "that no one really likes" do you mean Marty and Moog, or the viewers? There seems to be an overwhelming appeal to carry on with the car. I truly that hope they do. Personally, I just love to see them drop a healthy, low mileage 2ZR in it, add some gauges and go at it again. Then again, a build motor or 2ZZ swap and turbo would be awesome too. They have the fueling and electronics already in place to do either build.

[eTiMaGo]

Last episode in the Yaris Hilton saga went up, looks like they tied up most of the loose ends for us Yaris nerds ;)

[06YarisRS]

Last episode in the Yaris Hilton saga went up, looks like they tied up most of the loose ends for us Yaris nerds ;)

LOL, yes they did. Sad to see her go.

[CrankyOldMan]

It was good to see them drop the "personality" stunts and just be real about it.

[06YarisRS]

It was good to see them drop the "personality" stunts and just be real about it.

Amen! I was getting sick of the ghost easter eggs throughout their vids. I guess spectres and phantoms sell, since about 90% of the comments were about that. If nothing else, they know their audience, or know how to make one.