View Full Version : Will putting new lowering springs damage original shock absorbers in the long run?
Joel Leong
06-05-2006, 06:03 AM
I'm wondering that if I lower my Yaris with "TRD progressive lowering springs" and keeping the original shock absorbers, will my shock absorbers be damaged in the long run, since they can't travel entire stroke distance?
And if the shock absorbers are already being compressed by the lowering springs, will my ride becomes harsher than before even if I installed with progressive lowering springs?
Confused.
SmellyTofu
06-05-2006, 07:51 AM
It'd straight away act like worn shock absorbers and will only get worse so you will have less and less spring control which won't do the handling any good. If you are only after looks and none of the performance, then skip the shocks but if you are after safety and handling, do the shocks at the same time.
ricko
06-05-2006, 08:54 AM
From experience, I can tell you that the TRD springs will tighten up your handling (lower CG, less body roll) without adversely affecting your ride quality. It is not a radical change, and is fine for "spirited" driving. This set-up is NOT for racing, and if you plan to take your car to the track or some other certified event (the ONLY places to race), you will probably want to go all out .... springs, shocks, sway bars, etc. As for premature wear, only time will tell. Remember the advantage of the TRD springs is that they do not affect your warranty in any way.
SophieSleeps
06-05-2006, 10:05 AM
Any drop you do on stock shocks will shorten their life.
A 1" drop shouldn't be too bad. Personally I think it's fine.
Any more extreme drops, just be aware that you may considerably lessen the life of your shocks.
'considerably lessen the life' is quite subjective... of course the lifespan of the dampers will be affected. but not significantly imo... if you use the TRD lowering springs installed by the dealer, you will still keep the 3 yr bumper to bumper warranty ~60,000km's, so they should last at least as long as that. dampers should be replaced roughly 80-100k km's in a stock setup.
are the stock dampers the ideal setup for the lowering springs? no. but for normal day to day use, it'll be just fine.
SophieSleeps
06-05-2006, 01:31 PM
'considerably lessen the life' is quite subjective... of course the lifespan of the dampers will be affected. but not significantly imo... if you use the TRD lowering springs installed by the dealer, you will still keep the 3 yr bumper to bumper warranty ~60,000km's, so they should last at least as long as that. dampers should be replaced roughly 80-100k km's in a stock setup.
are the stock dampers the ideal setup for the lowering springs? no. but for normal day to day use, it'll be just fine.
Right. I'm in agreement.
I meant "considerably" for lower than the 1" drops.
echo_hrs
06-05-2006, 05:06 PM
If you have the springs dealer installed, and you shocks fail before the warranty is up, then they should be covered under the original warranty anyways...
Cheers
birdy
06-05-2006, 05:51 PM
they will last long enough to save up fo rnew shocks.
Idjiit
06-05-2006, 06:12 PM
Any more extreme drops, just be aware that you may considerably lessen the life of your shocks.
Is the same true of height-adjustible (but sans dampening adjustment) coilovers? Or does the damper move as part of the adjustment?
Dweeb
06-06-2006, 12:03 AM
Shocks will always wear out, and rough roads help that more, but if you are putting in lowering springs (they are automatically stiffer/heavier springs than stock) or just stiffer (heavier) springs, you shocks will wear out sooner.
Remember this, shocks should be matched to the spring rates. Otherwise you will get what is called ‘Oversprung / undersprung” that is when you get the “lowered Honda hop/bounce” syndrome. Kids putting lowering/stiffers springs, (or even cutting them) but not changing the shocks, and the shocks can't keep up with the forces from the new stronger spring rate.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
ricko
06-06-2006, 12:15 AM
Don't you mean oversprung/underdamped??????? :iono:
eight_heads
06-06-2006, 12:22 AM
do the trd springs come with new shocks? or are they another option? how is toyota handling that?
Dweeb
06-06-2006, 12:39 AM
ricko,
You can have too a strong spring for the shock, or you can have too a weak springs for the shock. (that is just to begin with) I could go into different scenarios including Hi & Low bump and rebound settings…etc, but we are talking about “stock” shocks here.
You really don’t want to go any more that +-10% of the stock spring lbs/in settings (stiffness), if you keep the stock shocks, to maintain a good feel and drivability.
.
Joel Leong
06-06-2006, 03:14 AM
Great info, guys. Thanks!
TRD lowering springs and TRD shock absorbers can be purchased separately.
TRD dealer told me that the TRD lowering springs are friendlier to the original shock absorbers. Team Toyota Europe (TTE) also makes the same claim, see http://www.tte.de/cm_yaris_XP9.htm.
BTW, is TRD and TTE the same?
My Toyota car dealer (from another company) warned me that I may loose my 3-year warranty if the shock absorbers are damaged by TRD lowering springs. That's why I'm worried.
Anyway I'm from Singapore. I think our Toyota warranty system works differently from the rest of the country. :cry:
SmellyTofu
06-06-2006, 04:25 AM
TTE <> TRD.
What do you mean by friendlier?
Joel Leong
06-06-2006, 05:04 AM
Sorry. What I mean is this dealer claimed that his TRD lowering spring is "fully compatible" with the original shock absorber and will not damage it.
SmellyTofu
06-06-2006, 06:12 AM
You'll basically accelerate the wear rate on the shocks as the shocks extend and compress further than with softer springs. If standards shocks last 40,000km, shorter and stiffer springs might wear them out at 30,000km (hypotetically).
ricko
06-06-2006, 07:51 AM
All this theoretical stuff is all well and good but .................... I think the original question was do the TRD springs work, and will they wear out sooner.
!. Do they work? Yes, as long as you remember they are NOT designed for racing. The car corners flatter, far less body roll and with better control over most bumps. It is somewhat under-damped, and significant bumps in fast sweepers will upset it's balance. This is not surprising. In my experience there are very few stockers out there that are not under-damped, and my lowered RS is still better that my Acura 1.7 was in this respect. In addition ride quality while firm is still acceptable, and to date I have had no trouble with bottoming out over sharp bumps or in potholes. It is not that radical a change.
2. Will they reduce the life of the stock shocks? Most likely they will wear out sooner than if you left the stock springs in place. How much sooner is pure speculation, and since driving conditions and styles vary so much it really is impossble to say for sure. In Canada the shocks are still covered by the warranty, but even if they were not it makes sense to see how they work with the new springs before you replace them.
All of the above is based on my experience (2 months, approx. 3000km) with my otherwise stock Canadian RS 3-door. I love to drive the car hard, but I am NOT a street racer. As I said before, if you are going to race your Yaris, you would be wise to consider a complete kit. :rolleyes:
SmellyTofu
06-06-2006, 04:52 PM
Stiff shocks don't stop you bottoming out ... shocks aren't the thing that act against the weight of the car ;)
stiffer dampers can definitely control stiffer springs better. they wont prevent bottoming out, but they will certainly help decrease the likelihood :) they are tuned stiffer for both compression and rebound strokes of the spring.
the common 'honda bounce' is a result of using lowering springs on stock dampers, that are probably already worn--probably kids who bought the car used cheap, want it to look cool, and dont have the money to replace the tired dampers. i've seen many many newer (1-2 year old) hondas lowered with springs only, riding on oem dampers with a decent 1-2" drop with no issues for street use.
ricko
06-07-2006, 08:30 AM
Perhaps my post was obscure. I was initially concerned about the car bottoming out (not the suspension) due to less ground clearance with the lowering springs. This has not been a problem. I suggested the car is under-damped with reference to it's behaviour in fast sweeping turns with bumps. Perhaps high performance shocks would improve on this, or the addition of sway bars may be necessary??? Because I am not racing, I just slow down.
Of course stiff shocks will not prevent bottoming, nor will anything but ridiculously stiff springs. The 2 work together as a system, with the springs supporting the weight of the car and as Ron suggested the compression damping on the shocks helping to control the tendency to bottom out, by slowing and limiting motion. TRD has indicated that the lowering springs were designed to work with the stock shocks. In the street conditions I have encountered, this does seem to be the case. Hope this clears things up. :clap:
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