RomanDave's Prius C swap

[RomanDave]

Hi,

I managed to find some great information on this site from other users, mainly Zedicus' post about Prius C engine swap.

So thought I'd share some extra details of what I've been doing.

The basic plan is:

Low km Prius C motor
Silvertop 4AGE ITB setup
Link G4+ ECU
BC valve springs
JUN 264 / 9.5mm cams
4kg flywheel
Exedy clutch
C56 gearbox / helical LSD

Into a 2005 NCP10 3 door Echo.
Currently running a normal 2NZ with ITB and saw great results.

Progress posts to follow.

61630

[RomanDave]

So first thing was to start collecting some parts.
The gearing sucks so I managed to find a C56 from a Vitz RS.
Then 4kg flywheel from Japan.
Exedy clutch.
Some BC valve springs from Ebay.
Then a normal 1NZ sump to swap over.
Then at this stage I just had some normal 1NZ cams to swap in too.
But because it's heaps of work to swap over the cams while the motor is in, I figured I may as well just cut to the chase. So ordered some JUN cams which are still on their way.

61631

[RomanDave]

I managed to get a 30,000km old 1NZFXE, everything looked amazingly new and fresh.

So started stripping it down and decided to swap the sump over first.

Then once I'd done that, I decided to get the old valve springs out and replace with the BC springs.

Bad move! Dropped one of the retainers down an oil passage, into the sump.
So had to take it off again.

61632

It turns out that it was impossible to try fit the new stiffer springs with the head in place, so I removed the head and took it to the local engine shop to sort out.

Once I took the head off, holy moly this motor looked yuck inside.
I'm hoping it's all deposits from EGR, rather than blowing past the piston rings. I'm not keen on swapping out rings or removing rods and pistons at this stage. But if the motor blows a lot of smoke, I guess I'll have to.

I spent a while cleaning up the pistons and combustion chambers just with petrol and a toothbrush. Hopefully it will self clean a little more when being run without EGR.

61633

So I got the head back but I need to order some more head bolts before I can put it all together again.

[RomanDave]

Next up is to see if I can get the electric water pump going.

61634

So its pretty simple if you have the loom/plug.

The 4 wires are:

Ground: White with black stripe, heavy gauge
12v supply: light blue heavy gauge
PWM pump speed control: small blue wire
pump speed return signal: small green wire


So if you are retrofitting and want a simple install, if you connect just the 12v and ground wires, the pump will run full speed constantly. So you could just wire this to a relay that controls the fuel pump perhaps.

If you earth out the PWM pump speed control pin, the pump completely stops. If you pulse the signal with a varying duty cycle, it can lower or raise pump speed.

Then the return signal wire outputs a square wave (as seen on laptop screen) which you can wire to a digital input on an ECU to monitor pump speed.
So this way you can tell if the pump has failed and setup some warnings, rather than waiting for the motor to overheat. So that's handy.

[RomanDave]

For the ECU install, since mine is a 2005 model it has the 4rows of pins on the ECU. Earlier models with 2 row pins you can buy a DIYBOB or other adapters as it is the same ECU pinout common with some Hondas and other cars.

No such thing available in this case, so I chopped the plugs out of a spare ECU to make an adapter loom. So it could revert to the standard ECU if needed (at least initially, while it had the standard manifold etc on it)

61635


Then the ITB manifold was 3d printed from HIPS material then covered in some carbon fibre for a bit more strength. Has now been on the car for about 6 months with no issues, (with the 2NZ currently)

61636

61637

[mitch9521]

Wouldn't be surprised if you get 150whp out of that setup.

[remcafee]

i love it i love it i love it! im a sucker for pumped out all motor itb engines, you should get a nice linear and smooth power increase too which i love over forcced induction

[CrankyOldMan]

Looks great! Thanks for sharing.

[speedworxs]

i'm picking up a 05 hatchback , i was intending on this very swap.
not as electrically smart for the electric pump, but i was debating some cams (254) with it too. i wouldn't go for the itb's but might do a corolla throttle.
will the factory ecu run fine with the increase in compression? i wish there was a way to increase rev limit

[mitch9521]

i'm picking up a 05 hatchback , i was intending on this very swap.
not as electrically smart for the electric pump, but i was debating some cams (254) with it too. i wouldn't go for the itb's but might do a corolla throttle.
will the factory ecu run fine with the increase in compression? i wish there was a way to increase rev limit

You can increase the rev limiter if you overclock the factory ECU, but you have to be careful, too much will give you serious problems. But that is one "ghetto" way of doing it. Of course, a proper piggyback or standalone is a far better route.

Premium will be a must at minimum with that kind of compression and stock timing.

[RomanDave]

JUN cams arrived today, and I'm happy to report that everything fits up fine, including the cam gears.

Thankfully the Aqua shares the exhaust side part number of the 2004+ normal 1NZ motor, and the intake side will work fine too.

Sometimes one of the gears ends up out of alignment, depending on the combination of bits you started with.

It's quite hard to turn the cams over by hand, definitely a lot stiffer springs than standard or my 3S motor.

Need to get a feeler gauge and shim these and see how far out it is. (or not)

[mitch9521]

I can't wait to hear this thing at full throttle under load :biggrin:

[xnamerxx]

With the cams make sure you have it fully advanced when testing fitment, I know PTV clearance was really tight when I tested myself. Also watch out for ring flutter, I had some issues with that when running over 7k rpms with the ultra low tension prius c rings.

[RomanDave]

Progress.

The head is back on properly, cam clearances all within spec after 2-3 goes of juggling the existing shims around.

I pick-a-parted a front pulley, so now I can start on an alternator bracket.

Funnily enough the light weight alternator kit for my 3S motor, that saves 4KG.
Uses a 1NZ alternator.
So there's some irony in stealing the brackets from that, in order to mount a 1NZ alternator to a 1NZ.
I'll just need an intermediate plate to bolt to the side of the block and stick these on, hopefully.
Not the most light weight solution but I'm more about just getting this going for now.
Looks like underneath the waterpump will be the place for it, and no AC anymore.

One of the now superfluous water outlets was a hose barb that sat with a tapered thread into the back side of the block. Which I replaced with a drain block off bolt I pinched from a dead 3S motor. Easy fix.

Also note how the dipstick on this motor nicely bends out of the way, rather than being between number 1 and 2 throttles. Excellent.

61646

[thebarber]

very cool

[speedworxs]

hey! i meant to ask, how are you doing the power steering pump (if your car had that)

[RomanDave]

I'm not sure yet.

I am hoping to keep the factory PS arrangement though.

But it will depend on how difficult the required brackets are.

Just sorting the alternator side first.

[RomanDave]

I've got the intake on it now though, a fair bit more clearance now that dipstick tube and alternator isnt an issue!

So I might reprint my manifold so the throttles are the other way up.
This way it wont have the ugly linkages and throttle cable on top.

(They're not fitted for pic)

61654

[speedworxs]

Wonder if you could share that printing for the throttles... I bet a few would snap that up

[RomanDave]

Yeah maybe once I've finalized it and am happy with it.

I'm thinking about reprinting another version with the throttles flipped the other way up.

So the linkages etc arent visible from the top. However this wouldnt work for a high mount alternator setup of the non hybrid motor.

Speaking of which, I've printed a prototype for an alternator bracket that mounts it where the AC pump used to go.

61689

and a crappy tensioner, work in progress.

61690

I cant really see any other good options for it.

I've translated the plans into a set of drawings which can be lasercut, then welded together. Will be made from 6mm and 10mm alloy plate.

A friend also kindly gave me some 2ZZ injectors to use.
So there arent very many pieces of the puzzle left to solve!

Nearly ready to start pulling the old motor out.

[speedworxs]

are the 2zz injectors too much?
if memory serves;
1nz- 180-200cc
1zz- 260-280cc
2zz- 315-330cc
i did the injectors on my mr2, and the ecu could compensate but i don't think the 1nz computer could cover that much difference. ... as i typed that i remember you are using the Link ecu so not a problem for you

also, smart alternator mount , i was wondering if the rear power steering mount would work too

[RomanDave]

The main issue with any injector is that they are difficult to control at very small opening times. (So long as you've got an ECU to set them up correctly)

If you've got the correct injector data then you can get something like a 1000cc injector idling fine on a 1500-1600cc 4cyl motor.

But pushing the limits a bit, past that.

If you use E85 where the required fuel volume is higher, then your minimum opening time increases so you can get away with larger injectors. But then you also need larger injectors to keep up.

On my 2NZ motor with the standard 195cc injectors and ITB setup.
At 7000rpm I am reaching 75% duty cycle.

Generally you dont want to exceed around 85% duty cycle, for an NA motor I prefer to keep maximum around say 50-60% so you can adjust the injector timing if needed.

So if there are any strong reversion points in the rpm range you can adjust the injector timing to stop it spitting the fuel back out.

In other news, I've made some slow and boring progress.

My alternator bracket is getting lasercut from some flat 2D shapes, will then be welded together hopefully next week some time.

I've also not wanted to bother with an electric PS pump, and a manual rack came up for sale so I've grabbed it. Keeps it simple!

With such a light car I cant see there been a massive need for PS.

However if I decide later to fit an electric column assist, I would have needed a manual rack anyway.

Will start pulling the 2NZ motor out possibly this weekend.

61697

[RomanDave]

So I got the motor out

61700

Then pulled the clutch fork out and went to bolt the new motor and gearbox together...

Ahhh man, I wasnt expecting the top bellhousing bolts to be all wrong.
My understanding was that if you swap the sump over, everything lined up.

61698

The position of the dowels on the motor and gearbox were fouling each other, but it works for both if you have them in this position.

61699

The only real solution is to drill through the engine block.
Then there's only really 1 small and 1 large bolt that arent going to work.

61701

It's not the end of the world but I probably would have started with a normal 1NZ block, then fitted high comp pistons if I knew the pattern was so different.

Realistically though it should be fine.
Just caught me off guard I guess.
It's still nice having such a new and low km motor that's so clean.

I just need to file/slot one of the holes a little more, then It'll be about ready to put into the car.

However I also need to figure out my steering rack situation before I can put the motor back in. A few unexpected hurdles but that's always the way!

Cant wait to fire it up.

[CrankyOldMan]

Loving the 3D printed prototypes! I'm sorely tempted to get a printer for my garage/shop for that sort of thing. I've got milling machines and lathes so I can fabricate the "real" components once the design is solid but that would make figuring out the shapes a lot easier!

Bummer about the bell housings. I'm not sure anyone has documented trying to mate a C150 to a Prius 1NZ-FXE before, so you're in Lewis and Clark Territory ;)

What's the donor for the steering rack? I've got a few Yaris power steering columns in my parts rack if you need pictures or dimensions.

[speedworxs]

well shit!
i would have thought the other guy (zedicus?) would have mentioned that... maybe toyota changed the block? or wrong bell housing?

[RomanDave]

I managed to get the bellhousing situation sorted, after lots of drilling, filing, measuring, and pulling the gearbox off and on about 20 times.

Also the manual rack swapped in.
If swapping to a manual rack, you also need this part and the rubber boot otherwise it wont work. It saves around 5kg switching to a manual rack.
And it's much easier to work on anything behind the motor now.

61715

I also had troubles with the motor side engine mount, when trying to use the Prius bracket.
It just wanted to sit the rubber mount too far forward.
So I pulled them both out and compared.
They're quite different!

61713

It looks like a normal 1NZ bracket is required here, but then one of the bolt holes wont work (The one that's not the 3 in line)
However there's not really another option, so I'll source one of these.
Feels good to have the motor sitting in there though!

61714

So a few unexpected issues but still good progress, still hopefully on track for engine fire up on the weekend.

[speedworxs]

I'm excited to see(hear) it fire up. I get my echo tomorrow, so I'm pumped too.

[RomanDave]

I've been making some more progress.

I swapped the engine bracket to the normal 1NZ engine mount bracket, so now that all bolted up in the engine bay fine.

Since the 1NZ block is a little taller, my trumpets on the intake now hit the bonnet. So I'll need to remake those to suit.

The Aqua engine only has a 2 pin engine temp sensor, where as the NCP10 has a 3 pin sensor - so you just swap them over. (back of the head, at the top near exhaust side)

Then in the Link ECU I just adjusted engine size to 1500cc, and adjusted injector size for the 2ZZ injectors, and it fired up first pop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdavHZPn-tA

Obviously without coolant situation sorted yet, but a good milestone.

The water hose situation has been easy enough, I've got a bin full of random radiator hose sizes so I just mixed and matched until something worked.
However the outlet positions on the engine mean you cant reuse the standard 2NZ / 1NZ hoses, or the 1NZFXE ones.
There's also an issue where the heater outlet off the thermostat housing is very close to the starter motor solenoid wire.
Not quite touching, but I'm not sure if you could get the plug out while that hose is in place.
Could be annoying.

I'll be fitting a temperature sensor on the cold water pipe from the radiator, so I have a measure of both radiator and engine temperatures. Just for interest's sake, but it might also be an interesting metric to set the water pump speed by.

For the waterpump wiring, I've decided to wire it into the fusebox.
As there's unused fuse and relay locations.
Looking at the Aqua fusebox diagram, it runs a 30 amp fuse to the pump.
So I've done the same here.
I will have the pump relay triggered on with the ignition key 12v supply.
Then as soon as the ECU comes online, it can tell the pump to stop via the PWM pin.

So it's a fail safe mode in case that wire breaks or whatever.

I'm still waiting on my alternator bracket to be completed. However something else I need to do is pick the engine loom apart. The alterantor wiring is baked into the bundle of wires that runs high up with the injectors etc.
However because of my low mount alternator, I need to separate it out. Also I need to remove some redundant wiring for the MAF, power steering, aircon, IACV, old TPS, narrowband oxy sensors, and maybe one or two other things.
So I might try make it look a little tidier while I'm at it, but I might run out of patience before then haha.

[speedworxs]

nice that it started.
i'm kinda surprised about the little differences, ie. motor mounts
what part number is that intermediate shaft for the steering rack?
i am wondering how much the water pump accounts for power wise, the first gen prius uses the same set up as the 1nz, belt driven water pump... but the alternator would be easier, no custom set up

[RomanDave]

A mechanical waterpump only consumes a fraction of a horsepower - that's why it's important on economy cars.

If you are trying to optimize your power at full throttle it's an irrelevant amount.
However if you are trying to optimize cruising conditions where you make 15hp, then 0.5hp is a lot of difference.

Anyway, I got the pump working well, and I got the motor going.

With still no trumpets on, very conservative ignition timing, and completely standard exhaust for now - this thing sings!

Highest I've revved it to is 8600rpm and feels like it's happy to keep going.
But I know it'll blow the rods up if I carry on like that.

The C56 gearbox is a bit clunky but the new ratios and final drive are delightful.

VVTI isnt working yet, it needs some trumpets, and some ignition timing...

But even so, it's great right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXi7WYC2vp8

Here's a comparison on the same section of road with:

Blue line - 2NZ with intake

Green line - 2NZ with ITB

(Both of these are rpm limited by valve bounce)

Then red line is my very early state of tune with the 1NZFXE

61731

Very happy with how things are coming along, but there's still a lot left in it!

[mitch9521]

Sounds awesome.

[thebarber]

So good

[RomanDave]

So I found the VVTI problem, it wasnt to do with the valve springs overpowering the cam pulley. Although that's still possibly an issue at higher rpm.

It was that the locking pin was stuck in place, so the cam couldnt advance.

So I remedied that, and... hit valves into pistons when I advanced the cam.

I'd seen someone else using prius pistons with VVTI and this same cam, so thought it would be fine. However the issue is that the Aqua motor has significantly smaller valve cutouts than the earlier 13:1 pistons. So this works fine with a standard cam, but not the JUN 9.5 / 264 deg.

61744

Something else interesting I've learned along the way, a lot of people having issues fitting the head stud kits, where you have to still use a normal head bolt where the VVTI solenoid goes.

The Aqua part number VVTI solenoid is physically shorter, but has all of the oil galleries in the same location. It doesnt protrude into the head as far.
So it's possible that using this, will allow people to use the full head stud kit without issues.

61745

So the plan from here, since I've found this motor likes to rev. I will fit some stronge rods so I can run to 9k if needed without any stress.
Then either machine deeper cutouts into the Aqua pistons, or buy a set of earlier pistons to fit at the same time. So I can have full VVTI range.
Then also get an LSD sorted as this definitely needs it now.

So probably some slow progress from here, but will stick at it.

[JonnathanQnk]

Awasome build Roman, could you give me the piece number of the shorter vvti selenoid, maybe you know if ARP Head studs for 1nz fit on 2nz ??

[RomanDave]

Not sure in both cases sorry.

You could look up the part number on toyodiy.com, from Toyota Aqua 2012.

So with the valve situation, I got pretty lucky in that the valves were slightly bent but no other damage. Valves are same part number to the 2NZ, so I pulled them out of my old motor and swapped them in. Sealed perfectly without any lapping etc!

Then all back together.
I've now got some longer trumpets on, and the power difference over bare throttles is/was significant.

61800

Needs around 11% more fuel from 4000-6000rpm tapering off to about 5% more fuel from then upwards.

I've taken the rear seats back out and it's now got some 185/60/14 R888R tyres on it.

It still definitely needs an LSD but I managed to get off the line okay one time that had the logs recording, and managed a sub 6 second 0-60mph.
Which is awesome, I'm excited to see how this will go when I can get to the drag strip.

The highest I've revved this so far is 8860rpm, it loves the high revs.
Not only is it still making power at that rpm but the fact you fall into a higher rpm when you change gear lifts the average power of the car by heaps.
But I know that eventually I'll break rods doing this. So try keep it to around 8000 for now haha.

I've got exceptionally heavy wheels on it at the moment, wheels and tyre are about 17kg per corner!

61801

So I've bought some Rays Engineering GR-N wheels. They arent forged, but they are considerably lighter! A friend of mine who has the same sized wheels says they are 12kg per corner, but this might be with a lighter tyre too.

I've had some issues with the front pulley loosening at high rpm, and my alternator bracket broke. But I think I'm on top of these issues now.

I'm looking forward to gettting to some events shortly, hopefully.

[CrankyOldMan]

Love it! Thanks for the update!

[Neinris]

Wished this car was available in the US. I love how my 08 two door hatch looks, but this weighs 63lbs lighter. I wouldn't have to go on a diet when I decide to make mine a track car. :laugh:

[CrankyOldMan]

Wished this car was available in the US. I love how my 08 two door hatch looks, but this weighs 63lbs lighter. I wouldn't have to go on a diet when I decide to make mine a track car. :laugh:

You can import them from Canada into some states, MI is really easy. Or you can import RHD versions from Japan in a few years once they get out of the 25-year blackout period (they don't have FMVSS or EPA certification for North America).

[mitch9521]

I love this build so much.

[Neinris]

You can import them from Canada into some states, MI is really easy. Or you can import RHD versions from Japan in a few years once they get out of the 25-year blackout period (they don't have FMVSS or EPA certification for North America).

Sorry in advance for hijacking the topic... I've always loved the Vitz, even when I used to play Grand Tourismo on the PlayStation, I didn't care that my friends would laugh at me.

Yeah but it'd be in KPH... LOL! Not really a deal break. RHD is a no go for me, it'd be hard to drive on the CORRECT side of the road. :laugh:

Not sure how much I'd have to pay through customs if I get one from Canada, any idea?

But back to the build... Kudos to the OP, your work inspires lots of us. Please post new dyno test after everything is completed.

[CrankyOldMan]

Not sure how much I'd have to pay through customs if I get one from Canada, any idea?

For Michigan, you just transfer the title at the Secretary of State and pay whatever applicable taxes/fees for the value of the vehicle. Not sure about customs though since I bought it from TheBarber (who is a Canadian National that lives in MI on a visa). Check with your state's rules for importing vehicles for more details, I guess. :)

[Neinris]

For Michigan, you just transfer the title at the Secretary of State and pay whatever applicable taxes/fees for the value of the vehicle. Not sure about customs though since I bought it from TheBarber (who is a Canadian National that lives in MI on a visa). Check with your state's rules for importing vehicles for more details, I guess. :)

I really want to get back to the build, sorry for hijacking again. But thank you for that information. I'm still on the fence about it. I'll be moving back to Maryland sometime next month. Maybe I'll start inquiring when I get back.

I might just stick with my 08 Yaris, and start my own project. Thanks to the OP, some others here, and others on YT who have inspired me with their Frankenstein engines that I want to start my own Frankenstein project. I've vaguely mentioned in own "Frankenstein" post (https://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63299) about maybe putting a 3ZR bottom end for stroked crank, 2ZR-FXE 13:1 compression pistons, and 2ZR-FE head (no valvematic) together, the kicker is 2ZZ intake runners! Now that's a Frankenstein. :biggrin:

I'd take years for me to put that together. So anyone is more than welcome to experiment and steal this idea. :smile:

I'll end my question so we can focus on the OP's build.

[Neinris]

What is the REV limit for this engine? Is it purely going to be a track car, or is it still going to be a daily driver? Any plans on changing the gear ratio of the transmission? Very few here in YW have changed to the Scion xB1's (bB in most part of the world) transmission, for a higher final drive which would put more torque to the ground, but loses on top end speed. I personally would go with the Scion xD's manual transmission and just change out the 5th gear for better fuel economy, the FD is between the Yaris and the xB1.

[CrankyOldMan]

Any plans on changing the gear ratio of the transmission? Very few here in YW have changed to the Scion xB1's (bB in most part of the world) transmission, for a higher final drive which would put more torque to the ground, but loses on top end speed. I personally would go with the Scion xD's manual transmission and just change out the 5th gear for better fuel economy, the FD is between the Yaris and the xB1.

The Echo uses the C15X gearbox family, not the C5X. That really limits the availability of options without going back to much older cars (80's/90's) to find compatible gears. That rules out the xA/xB/xD and all of the 1ZZ-based platforms.

That said, the shorter final drive is great for AutoX but awful for road courses. Way too much top end speed given up, even with the 0.725:1 super-overdrive from the C59.

[speedworxs]

The Echo uses the C15X gearbox family, not the C5X. That really limits the availability of options without going back to much older cars (80's/90's) to find compatible gears. That rules out the xA/xB/xD and all of the 1ZZ-based platforms.


The c-gearbox will work for both engines (the c56 is paired with the 1nz vitz rs in Japan)... Just the need correct bellhousing section. But, I thought the echo chassis was narrower in the front and that's why it used the c150box, as it was physically smaller to fit. Likely the xB gearbox or xa would be the best bet for gearing differences, as the echo was mainly for fuel economy not any real performance

[RomanDave]

What is the REV limit for this engine? Is it purely going to be a track car, or is it still going to be a daily driver? Any plans on changing the gear ratio of the transmission? Very few here in YW have changed to the Scion xB1's (bB in most part of the world) transmission, for a higher final drive which would put more torque to the ground, but loses on top end speed. I personally would go with the Scion xD's manual transmission and just change out the 5th gear for better fuel economy, the FD is between the Yaris and the xB1.

Are you asking about my motor?

If so:

-No rev limiter currently. Until I've got some stronger rods I'll likely set the rev limiter somewhere around 8200-8300rpm.

And yes in this case, swapping to the C56 gearbox is an absolutely magical upgrade. Having the 4.3 final drive instead of the 3.5 makes the whole thing so much better. I'd not be suprised if my 1300cc motor would have been into the 15 second quarter mile range with the C56 box.

The individual ratios of the C56 are most excellent. On the shift from 2nd to 3rd, shifting at ~8800rpm it drops down to only around 6500rpm on gear change.
So it stays in the powerband awesomely.

61804

As for the purpose of this car, it's not a daily driver anymore as I've got a work car. But it still returns fairly decent milage, the high compression actually makes it decently economical.

I've been getting somewhere around 5.5-6 litres per 100km. So thats somewhere around 40mpg.
I could still get it a little better with optimizing the ignition timing further, will get there eventually.

[mitch9521]

I would love to swap my C50 for a C56, but getting one to Canada from Japan out of an NCP131 Vitz is north of 2 grand, the transmission itself is usually under $600 CAD, its the outrageous shipping that gets expensive very quickly.

[RomanDave]

Meanwhile in New Zealand an RS model NCP91 had its C56 sit there at a DIY wrecker yard until the car got crushed... because I procrastinated too long to get it out!

One thing I noticed is that the shifter linkage arrangement and the engine mount positions are different on the later boxes (compared to my model)

The benefit is that it gives much much much better clearance for the exhaust and shifter cables.

A turbo swap would be a tight squeeze with an NCP13 box, if I was trying it with a half decent sized turbo I'd probably try make the NCP91 box work.

[Neinris]

Are you asking about my motor?

If so:

-No rev limiter currently. Until I've got some stronger rods I'll likely set the rev limiter somewhere around 8200-8300rpm.

And yes in this case, swapping to the C56 gearbox is an absolutely magical upgrade. Having the 4.3 final drive instead of the 3.5 makes the whole thing so much better. I'd not be suprised if my 1300cc motor would have been into the 15 second quarter mile range with the C56 box.

The individual ratios of the C56 are most excellent. On the shift from 2nd to 3rd, shifting at ~8800rpm it drops down to only around 6500rpm on gear change.
So it stays in the powerband awesomely.

61804

As for the purpose of this car, it's not a daily driver anymore as I've got a work car. But it still returns fairly decent milage, the high compression actually makes it decently economical.

I've been getting somewhere around 5.5-6 litres per 100km. So thats somewhere around 40mpg.
I could still get it a little better with optimizing the ignition timing further, will get there eventually.

That is awesome information! Do you get the Scion xD equivalent in New Zealand? It has a final gear drive of around 3.94, might be something to look into. The xB1, xD, and Yaris all have the same 1st to 5th gear ratio, just different final gear ratio, 4.31, 3.94, respectively and the Yaris here have 3.72, not 3.5 like you mentioned.

I wish I know how to tune the ECM, because I have another "Frankenstein" in mind.

[mitch9521]

That is awesome information! Do you get the Scion xD equivalent in New Zealand? It has a final gear drive of around 3.94, might be something to look into. The xB1, xD, and Yaris all have the same 1st to 5th gear ratio, just different final gear ratio, 4.31, 3.94, respectively and the Yaris here have 3.72, not 3.5 like you mentioned.

I wish I know how to tune the ECM, because I have another "Frankenstein" in mind.

The 1st gen Yaris was labeled as the Echo in Australia, New Zealand and Canada. They have the 6 bolt C150 transmission with the god-awful 3.52 ratio.

The 2nd and 3rd gen Yaris have the slightly better ratio'd C50 with the 3.72FD. I wouldn't even waste my time with swapping in a better FD into a C50 gearset. They're still very much an economy transmission.

[Neinris]

The 1st gen Yaris was labeled as the Echo in Australia, New Zealand and Canada. They have the 6 bolt C150 transmission with the god-awful 3.52 ratio.

The 2nd and 3rd gen Yaris have the slightly better ratio'd C50 with the 3.72FD. I wouldn't even waste my time with swapping in a better FD into a C50 gearset. They're still very much an economy transmission.

I'd have to disagree, remcafee mentioned that he swapped in the xB1 FD and made the car really lively. I personally would go with the xD FD, which is easy because the transmission is already mated to the engine that I want to swap in.

[RomanDave]

Do you get the Scion xD equivalent in New Zealand? It has a final gear drive of around 3.94, might be something to look into.

I've got two NCP13 C56 boxes here, 4.3 ratio is a lot more preferable than a 3.94. So I wont bother with anything else.

Speaking of which,
I've just finished fitting an AE111 torsen into my spare one.
I'll be honest it battled me all of the way haha.
But I'm glad it's done now, cant wait to see how it performs with an LSD!

Had a few headaches including forgetting to put the speedo drive gear on before pressing the new bearing on... :rolleyes:

61857


Some other issues, half way through the run of NCP13 boxes they changed a bearing and shim on one side of the diff head.

So AE111 and early NCP13 have same bearing and shim (19.4mm bearing)

Then late NCP13 and NCP91 have a different bearing and shim. 18.5mm and thicker shim)

So this box turned out to be an early one, but I ordered the late bearing.
So I pulled apart my 2004 C152 and it had the correct shim to make the new bearing work.

Probably about 10-12 hours total work, lots of mucking around.

But I could do one much quicker next time.

[CrankyOldMan]

RomanDave has earned a skill point! (Gearboxes +1)

Awesome work, glad to see a fellow gearhead working with the gears. Looks like you did the bell housing split instead of pulling off 5th gear?

[RomanDave]

Yeah thats right.

It was a bit tricky, but on the whole not bad - I'd do it that way again.

If the box needs new synchros or something, then I'd do it the other way of course.

But just for LSD install I figured this makes sense.

[RomanDave]

I got the LSD fitted, and it's made an awesome difference!

This gearbox is much less clunky than the other one.
Still a bit stiff sometimes, but not too bad.

Still working on how I want the engine bay to look, currently black trumpets and purple engine cover.

61976

The trumpet length has been good, but they only juuuussssttt touch the edge of the bonnet. Which is actually fine, I could file them slightly to fit.

But ultimately I want an airbox over them for longevity.

So started on some new trumpets with more of a bend.

61975

Then started on an airbox, printed a 2D section for starters then looked to see where it would hit things. Used some plasticine to find the areas where clearance was poor.

61972

Then started on a revised model, and currently printing it.

61973

Ready for printing:

61974

Artists impression to help visualize it:

61971

Once the shape looks good I'll need to figure out how to split the shape up into bits so I can still get inside to do up the trumpets. Then what sort of filter to use, and its exact position.
Then start making some thin printed parts which I will carbon wrap.

It's cool making 100% carbon parts, but, it's considerably more work for only very small weight savings. Using 3d printing to get the geometry correct, then using carbon for strength is a very quick and easy process. (comparatively)

[mitch9521]

Love it

[RomanDave]

Airbox has been progressing nicely, latest revision fits a pod filter on.

61997

Then wrapped in carbon for strength.

61996

I'm still working on the lid part, but happy with it!

Also ordered some maxspeeding rods, and will try get a set of the 13:1 pistons so I can get VVTI working.

So I can hopefully rev to 9k with a bit more safety margin than factory rods.

[RomanDave]

Here's an idea of how it goes/sounds with ITB and an 8300rpm limiter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plcoepnwp8A

[Flipper_1938]

Airbox has been progressing nicely, latest revision fits a pod filter on.

61997

Then wrapped in carbon for strength.

61996

I'm still working on the lid part, but happy with it!

Also ordered some maxspeeding rods, and will try get a set of the 13:1 pistons so I can get VVTI working.

So I can hopefully rev to 9k with a bit more safety margin than factory rods.

Dang that is neat!

[mitch9521]

Those ratios in the C56 must make it feel like an entirely different animal.

[RomanDave]

I finished the airbox lid, and with everything installed it lost exactly 0% power.

Great! However it decreased the intake noise massively. Which is good and bad depending on what you're doing.

I had another play around with the VVTI situation.

I retarded the intake cam gear by two teeth, this allows a full range of movement without hitting valves into pistons with the 13.4:1 variants.

It's worked out well enough, but basically it's indicating that it would love to have more advance through the midrange, and would likely also love to rev out some more!

Some people have said that VVTI wont work at high rpm with the JUN cams and/or BC springs, but it works fine holding full cam advance right to 8500rpm.

To find the best VVTI angle, normally I'd measure the MAF output to optimize the airflow.

However since it's ITB the next best thing is to monitor how lean or rich it runs at full throttle through the rpm range.

Since the amount of fuel that gets sent is fixed, if more air comes in, then it will run leaner. And vice versa.

So on this graph, basically which ever line is the highest gives the best result.

The previous home position of the cam was somewhere around the 30 degree mark on this graph (yellow line) and you can see that now ~45 degrees advance is giving best airflow until very close to redline (red line)

Interestingly, the point that the curves cross over usually corresponds to peak torque. In this case that's happening at around 8k rpm.

I could probably rev it to 9 or higher and still see benefits, if it wouldnt likely cause mechanical issues such as a rod flying out of the block haha.

62002

[xnamerxx]

You might want to crack the vvt gear open and put some limiting blocks inside it.

With my 272 cams the car really didn't make good use of the extra torque below 5k anyway since the close ratio transmission never allowed me to be there anyway.

[RomanDave]

You might want to crack the vvt gear open and put some limiting blocks inside it.



Ahhh yeah thats what I ended up doing.
I moved the cam another tooth forward, and added a stopper. This gave a good spread of cam angles that responded well at various rpm. Ends up with about 17 degrees of cam advance over the standard position with no vvti.

62032

If I moved the cam back to its normal position, I'd end up losing out on top end. So will keep it where it is. Happy with that!

I went to the drags and it was heaps of fun.
I was having some issues with heat soak causing big ignition timing pulls off the line. I've never done anything with the car so far that leaves it stationary for long periods, saturating with heat.
So I was getting falsely high IAT readings (up to 70 deg c) which meant it was pulling around 7 degrees timing out, when I only run 25 deg timing max by 8500rpm.

So I'll try get that a bit better sorted for next time, I'll try take some sort of ambient temp reading and then clamp the IAT signal to this.

Good fun though and I was happy with my trap speed considering it's still got a standard header and exhaust.

14.7 @ 94.4mph, earlier in the day I did a 95.5mph when it was cooler.


62033


62034

[xnamerxx]

You might want to make some long tubes for the car, its a huge bump in mid range and top end.

[RomanDave]

Yeah that's the plan!

I've been waiting until I've got a hoist available first, but covid related fun times has delayed things a bit.

[RomanDave]

Had this car on the dyno, made 141hp at the hubs.

62078

Happy with that!

A friend loaned me some drag slicks to try.
So last night at the drags.

Suuuper busy, but it was really awesome to see a big crowd at the drags, lots of spectators too. Was a cool atmosphere.

So first run, set the hoosiers to around 20psi which is very high, but wanted to start out conservative.

Ran a 14.092 @ 100.21 mph with a 2.33 60ft.

Super happy with that!

I was convinced at this point that I'd get a 13 tonight.

Second run we dropped the pressures a bit, launch wasnt so good and I ran a 14.1 with a higher 60ft.

At this point I figured I'd probably cursed myself saying I'll get a 13.

Looking at the logs of both runs, the motor was bogging a bit when I was trying to roll into the throttle and clutch.

So third run, set a launch limiter at 5500rpm. Full throttle sitting on line, dump the clutch.

And crap. No wheel hop no big spinning, just felt like stretching out and releasing a rubber band.

It felt so much faster than my first run, I crossed the line realizing it must be a 13. Absolutely stoked beyond belief

Get my time slip and was blown away

13.83 @ 99.6 mph with a 2.1 60ft

62077

Here's the video for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd-YM6h4heA

[CrankyOldMan]

Amazing, congrats!

Best I ever got a time slip for was a 17 with the Blitz and my slightly-too-heavy AutoX tires. Oof.

[mitch9521]

I wonder if such a similar build is possible with the 2ZR-FXE pistons in a regular 2ZR-FE, this could open up an entirely new era of hotrodding Toyota engines, at least from a naturally aspirated route.

[ardianpradana]

I love this thread

you are amazing

[RomanDave]

A few slow updates on things.

I havent been able to get back to the drags yet, thanks to Covid related restrictions.

The 15" tyre setup was awesome, but for this car I wanted to get the 13" M&H setup.

But it's incredibly hard to find 13" 4x100 wheels, surprisingly enough!

So I've been looking and looking for wheels first before ordering tyres.

Then a set of the tyres I wanted, on some 13x7.5" Lenso rims, came up for sale for cheaper than just the cost of tyres. Done deal!

62116

Looks a lot nicer I think, and the 205/60/13 means I'll still cross the line in third, but will cross the line a bit closer to 9000rpm.

Also, I've been looking for some alternatives to the 4AGE throttle bodies.
As 4AGE throttles are getting old, cruddy, and way more expensive.

I ended up sourcing an e-throttle setup from a BMW S1000RR bike.

Despite being only a 1 litre engine, these have a bore size 5mm larger than a 1nz. But narrower spacing between the bores, so it ends up nearly perfect.
It's also super nice and compact, and has 48mm throttles rather than 42mm at the narrowest point on the silvertops.

62118

So it's been fun making the 4AGE based setup, and I've learned heaps.
But it's earned its retirement so I'll hang these up on the wall in the shed as a reminder of fun times with them.

62117

I'm still waiting for the BMW throttles to arrive, so I've put the standard Aqua engine e-throttle manifold and airbox onto the motor.
I've used an SCP13 e-throttle pedal that bolted straight in.
Then just wired the e-throttle motor and new TPS to the ECU. easy.
Also added cruise control, because it's awesome to have!

Also, since this entire time I've been running a stock manifold and exhaust.
I'm finally planning to make a decent 4-1 long pipe manifold.
Ordering the parts in the next few weeks to get this underway.

62119

Also, I fitted some Ohlin Coilovers, and the handling is very nice.

So there's still a little bit of drag racing performance left in it, even though this is 100% not the point of the car at all.
I still havent made it to any trackdays, but I expect that this car will excel there as well. It's incredibly rapid and handles amazingly.

[RomanDave]

Finished the BMW e-throttle setup. It's very nice.
Powerband pushed a bit higher with the shorter runners.

I bought a new 13" wheel setup which is a lot lighter.

Car is now 790kg give or take.

Using a 205/70/13 on the front.

Went back to the drags, ran a 13.49 @ 99.5mph

2.09 60ft time, so could still be quicker yet.

Still running a factory exhaust and manifold :confused:

62124

62125


Here's an in car video of the fastest run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsjwkvBHAqI

[mitch9521]

Brilliant. That 1NZ loves to sing

[RomanDave]

As anyone who's done trackdays etc knows, it can add an incredible amount of admin to try film things yourself.
Fixing camera angles, dealing with dead gopro batteries, full SD cards, suction cup mounts failling off, and so on.
It adds lot onto what can be quite a busy schedule already.
So I was incredibly stoked that there was enough interest for some guys to come spend a night filming my efforts at the drags.
Then going through all the motions of putting together a nice video from the footage.
If anyone's wanting an insight into the trials and tribulations of drag racing an echo, Have a geez.
It was a real fun night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUlqZsjQanI

[Compeer]

As anyone who's done trackdays etc knows, it can add an incredible amount of admin to try film things yourself.
Fixing camera angles, dealing with dead gopro batteries, full SD cards, suction cup mounts failling off, and so on.
It adds lot onto what can be quite a busy schedule already.
So I was incredibly stoked that there was enough interest for some guys to come spend a night filming my efforts at the drags.
Then going through all the motions of putting together a nice video from the footage.
If anyone's wanting an insight into the trials and tribulations of drag racing an echo, Have a geez.
It was a real fun night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUlqZsjQanI

Are you still racing the car? I know its a year on but keen to get along to race days in 2023 and it would be awesome to hook up with some other people modding and racing these little cars.

Working towards a supercharger set up for mine, slowly picking my way through base mods like suspension and things and would love to pick your brain as I move forward to ecu and what not.

[theinteriorautomechanic]

Hi I just wanted to find out if the JUN cams are drop in cams for US Market 07-11 Yaris? I'm planning on doing BC Valve Springs as well as a bunch of other N/A mods. Are these drop in cams? Or will I need extensive tuning? Currently I am running an FTG Reflashed ECU with higher redline and adjusted A/F.

[remcafee]

when i had 9 inch lift jun cams thry ran a little weird at idle, triggering random misfires every once in a while, i solved that issue with 1 step colder plugs and it ran great on stock map

[saikouguy]

Hi I just wanted to find out if the JUN cams are drop in cams for US Market 07-11 Yaris? I'm planning on doing BC Valve Springs as well as a bunch of other N/A mods. Are these drop in cams? Or will I need extensive tuning? Currently I am running an FTG Reflashed ECU with higher redline and adjusted A/F.

Unfortunately Dave has moved on from this setup. You can read his build here: https://oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/77848-romans-2005-toyota-echo/

Or alternatively join the Facebook groups and ask him there:
- https://www.facebook.com/groups/NCPClubAustralia
- https://www.facebook.com/groups/473202130211974