Dealer says timing cover is leaking oil, what should I do?

[RMcG]

Hello everybody,

You may ask, why did I go to a dealer? Answer: I'm starting a new job that requires travel and definite reliability in terms of my showing up. So I wanted to have my 2008 Yaris with 111, 670 miles on it to get a clean bill of health in case I had a problem with the car. I can show my employer that I had the car inspected, and by a dealer too. I've never had the car worked on by a dealer unless it was for a recall notice or still under warranty. I gave the dealer a list of what I wanted inspected, because I had already done a lot myself and had a lot done for free.

Anyway the one thing they turned up that I'm concerned about is: "Oil leak (visual): timing cover is leaking on rear of engine." They said it will be $126 for a diagnostics check on this. After getting back from the dealer, I checked the engine oil level and it is over full (perhaps typical of Walmart?). The oil was last changed at 110K, about 1700 miles & 3 months ago at Walmart. I live in an apartment complex, but have parked in the same spot for a few weeks and have not noticed any oil spots in the parking space. But, it's night time now, so I'll check again tomorrow.

I don't trust the dealer. My guess is that this diagnostic charge is way too high. I think it's $126 for just sticking a small computer into a plug and reading a code. As just some of the evidence that they over charge: a suggestion that I remedy the foggy headlight lenses for a mere $400 and the intimation that I may get a ticket if I don't. Of course I've seen Youtube videos of people curing this problem of foggy headlight lenses with less than 30 minutes of work with toothpaste or rubbing compound and a rag.

QUESTION(S): Should I worry about the possible timing cover leak of oil?

How should I monitor this problem?

Would getting a computer diagnostic check be wise?

What is a reasonable charge for such a computer diagnostic check?

Thanks,

R.

[BLH]

That amount sound about right.
When my 2007 had an in warranty water pump leak. Yes years ago.
I was given about the same cost to check it and if not a warranty fix. I had to pay it for a diagnostic fee. Even if I had didn't them do it.

[tmontague]

I would highly recommend cleaning the area thoroughly with degreaser/brake cleaner and then recheck in a week or so.

If you cannot do this yourself then have an indie mechanic do it and it will likely cost very little.

Not only will this give you an idea of if this area truly is leaking, but also how much. It could very well just be a weep and it would not be worth fixing.

If it is leaking a fair amount then you could have it fixed, but the job will cost a bit as it isn't the simplest of jobs with the engine still in the vehicle.

My old Pontiac Vibe with the 1zz had a timing cover "leak" for the 4 years I owned it. It barely dripped and I never bothered re sealing it. You can also run a high mileage oil which will slow it down a bit.

[bronsin]

If there is no oil on the ground where you park, and with the engine running you don’t see any oil dripping when you look under it It’s probably just fine.

$126 for a diagnostic check for an oil leak makes no sense to me at all!

[bronsin]

Also do you say the oil level is fine after 1700 miles. This indicates the leak is not significant!

[bronsin]

Also $400 to remedy fogged headlights and the threat of a ticket if you don’t do it indicates to me these people are not your friends

[ex-x-fire]

Unless its dripping and leaving spots, I'd drive it, Check the oil weekly and keep a quart in the car.

[RMcG]

I would highly recommend cleaning the area thoroughly with degreaser/brake cleaner and then recheck in a week or so.

If you cannot do this yourself then have an indie mechanic do it and it will likely cost very little.

My old Pontiac Vibe with the 1zz had a timing cover "leak" for the 4 years I owned it. It barely dripped and I never bothered re sealing it. You can also run a high mileage oil which will slow it down a bit.

Thanks tmontague and everybody else (bronsin, exfire & BLH) for your replies,

I think I would like to try doing this myself. Do I have to get underneath the car to do this? If so, I have two jacks (to jack up each side of the car) and can order (online) a pair of jack stands and a pair of wheel chocks for the rear wheels; total cost about $56 USD. These should allow me to safely get under the car and do what you suggest, including checking later to see if more oil has accumulated indicating how bad the leak is.

QUESTION(S): Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

Does anybody think that Walmart's overfilling of the crankcase could be a factor in causing an excess of pressure that could cause some leaking?

(Page 241 of the owner's manual says it takes 1.6 quarts added to go from low to completely full on the disptick. Based on those measurements, I think the dipstick shows the crankcase is overfilled by maybe 0.3 quarts. According to the specs on page 341, the oil capacity, i.e., drain + refill is 3.9 quarts with filter and 3.6 quarts without filter. Walmart usually puts 3.9 quarts of oil on the oil & filter change invoice -- they did this the last time the oil was changed, but maybe they put in the full 4 quarts. They almost never give me a partially filled quart of oil after the oil change.)

Any further comments you (tmontague) or others have will be appreciated and welcomed.

Thanks,

R.

[BLH]

When I have an oil change at a local garage or a dealer special.
They seem to always. Round up the 4 quarts added. With a filter included.
So my dipstick is always slightly over the full mark.

[NYC-SE]

I change my own oil. I always put the full 4 quarts in and have never seen any ill effects. I highly doubt that would be the cause of your leak.

[bronsin]

Thanks tmontague and everybody else (bronsin, exfire & BLH) for your replies,

I think I would like to try doing this myself. Do I have to get underneath the car to do this? If so, I have two jacks (to jack up each side of the car) and can order (online) a pair of jack stands and a pair of wheel chocks for the rear wheels; total cost about $56 USD. These should allow me to safely get under the car and do what you suggest, including checking later to see if more oil has accumulated indicating how bad the leak is.

QUESTION(S): Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

Does anybody think that Walmart's overfilling of the crankcase could be a factor in causing an excess of pressure that could cause some leaking?

(Page 241 of the owner's manual says it takes 1.6 quarts added to go from low to completely full on the disptick. Based on those measurements, I think the dipstick shows the crankcase is overfilled by maybe 0.3 quarts. According to the specs on page 341, the oil capacity, i.e., drain + refill is 3.9 quarts with filter and 3.6 quarts without filter. Walmart usually puts 3.9 quarts of oil on the oil & filter change invoice -- they did this the last time the oil was changed, but maybe they put in the full 4 quarts. They almost never give me a partially filled quart of oil after the oil change.)

Any further comments you (tmontague) or others have will be appreciated and welcomed.

Thanks,

R.

Basically you don’t have a problem. Go back and read my posts. Especially the one about your oil level being the same as it was 1700 miles ago when it was changed.

[tmontague]

I agree with others, the slight overfill is not an issue. I always ran a slight extra amount of oil in my yard when beating it around the track and never had a single issue with blowing out seals or leaks.

Your plan to inspect underneath the car is a sound one and what I personally would do.

Please ensure you have jack stand before going underneath, redundancy is your friend. I know two people in my extended circle who are no longer on this earth due to failing Jacks.

[remcafee]

yeah i work at the toyota dealer and really a timing cover leak isnt much to worry about, most of the time a mechanic will address if they see a small spec of oil debris and its really not even truly leaking, other than it looking kind of ugly and gross it doesnt hurt anything st all, if it was truly leaking you should stick your finger under by your passenger side frame and you have oil there, i have seen some timing covers get so bad that it actually gets the drive belt contaminated and it slips off so just check it every once in a while and make sure its not slinging oil on the belt and youre fine

[mitch9521]

I change my own oil. I always put the full 4 quarts in and have never seen any ill effects. I highly doubt that would be the cause of your leak.

Me too, I just throw in 4 quarts. Never had an issue with leaking.

[RMcG]

I agree with others, the slight overfill is not an issue. ...Your plan to inspect underneath the car is a sound one and what I personally would do.

Please ensure you have jack stand before going underneath, redundancy is your friend. I know two people ... who are no longer on this earth due to failing Jacks.

Thanks tmontague,

If I go ahead and follow the plan (i.e., buy the jackstands & rear wheel chocks, etc.) where should the jack stands be placed under the car to ensure the front end is stable and will not fall?

Based on reading the instructions in the owner's manual for how to change a front tire, I know where to place the jacks for the front end. There is an area between two notches on a ridge underneath each front door where a jack is supposed to go to change a front tire. I have changed a flat several times. But I do not know where jack stands are normally placed for the Toyota Yaris after the car is already jacked up.

Thanks,

R.

[RMcG]

Thanks mitch, NYC, bronsin, remcafee and BLH,

I will factor the information, opinions and suggestions you have made into my thinking.

Thanks again, I appreciate it very much.

This forum is great.

R.

[Jeanseb29]

For your headlights lenses I highly recommend the Sylvania Headlight restoration kit. See the testing done on this YT video from "Project Farm" (https://youtu.be/iDB5U4QUdD0) I've done 4 cars last year and they still all look perfect.

[WeeYari]

Jack stands under the frame rails.

[tmontague]

^this. I would triple fold an old towel and place on the jackstand so you don't scratch the pinch welds and eventually cause rust

The other place I have placed stands are under one of the control are or subframe bolts up front. Those are all solid and strong places to hold the weight of the car. You can also jack from here so you don't fold in the pinch welds

[RMcG]

^this. I would triple fold an old towel and place on the jackstand so you don't scratch the pinch welds and eventually cause rust

The other place I have placed stands are under one of the control are or subframe bolts up front. Those are all solid and strong places to hold the weight of the car. You can also jack from here so you don't fold in the pinch welds

Thanks tmontague and wee,

I found this Youtube video which is informative at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78DWeQwTWvQ . He is using a hydraulic jack to lift the front of the vehicle, a 2008 Yaris. He places his hydraulic jack under the middle of a cross member at the front of the vehicle and then places two jack stands under the two (left & right) front rocker panel lips between the two notches (where the tire jacks are normally placed). (I think what he calls the rocker panel lip may be what you (tmontague) are calling the pinch weld.)

I don't have a hydraulic lift, I just have two tire jacks that I use in the spots between the notches on the rocker panel lips.

QUESTION: Is there a way to use the two tire jacks to lift the car prior to putting the jack stands under the spot on the rocker panel lips between the notches?

Maybe the space between the two notches can accommodate both a tire jack and a jack stand. I am assuming I can't safely use one or both tire jacks under the cross member to lift the car initially -- but maybe there is some way to do this safely by slowly increasing the heights of the jack stands placed under the rocker panel lips.

Later Edit: I measured the width of the ridge between the two notches on the rocker panel lip and it measures about 1 3/4", the width of an old Honda Civic Jck that I carry is about 1 1/2" and I think this width is similar to the width of the OEM Toyota Yaris Jack under the front seat. So I doubt if there is enough room for both a tire jack and a jack stand to fit between the two notches. But, I also looked at (and felt) the rocker panel lip just behind the notched area and this area seems to be structurally the same as the area between the notches. So, I think I could jack the car up with a tire jack behind the notched area and then slide a jack stand under the notched area (or vice-versa, i.e., use the tire jack in the notched area and slide the jack stand under the area behind the notched area). I doubt if there is a safe way to use the tire jacks under the front cross member to jack up the car, the handles of the tire jacks are just not long enough for this.

Thanks,

R.

[tmontague]

Ya not enough room for both.

The yaris has no front or rear centre lift point unfortunately. Typically I use these to jack the car up and then rest the jack stands under the pinch welds carefully and with a thick towel.

In this case I use always used the frame rails at the side of the car to jack it up and then rest the car on jack stands the the pinch welds. The car is light enough to ot crush the unibody frame rails and it will actually raise both the front and rear wheels of the ground so it is easy to get the whole car on stands if you need to.

This is how I did it all the time with my track car and it ended up being a pretty quick process.

[WeeYari]

There is a front center lift point. To use it, you really need a long handle, quick lift jack. The smaller jacks that most people have are really awkward to use on the center lift.

[tmontague]

Imo it is so far into the middle of the car that it becomes almost unusable - even with my long handled jack.

[mitch9521]

I just use the solid bottom piece of the transmission mount to jack the front of my car up, never had an issue.

[bronsin]

Does anyone else see the mistake The op is making or am I the only one?

The OP has stated he sees in oil leak on his timing chain cover. But he also states it has been 1700 miles since the last oil change. The oil dipstick says full or even a little more than full. Therefore the leak is not significant enough to worry about.

BUT He is determined to jack up his car and go mucking about underneath the engine!

This may result in problems!

:eek:

[RMcG]

Does anyone else see the mistake The op is making or am I the only one?

The OP has stated he sees in oil leak on his timing chain cover. But he also states it has been 1700 miles since the last oil change. The oil dipstick says full or even a little more than full. Therefore the leak is not significant enough to worry about.

BUT He is determined to jack up his car and go mucking about underneath the engine!

This may result in problems!

:eek:

Thanks everybody for your input,

Bronsin I am aware there is the potential can of worms you are referring to that I do not want to open up. I will likely monitor the oil level and if it does not drop, I will probably do nothing for now, especially since it's starting to get cold.

On the other hand, if the oil level drops slowly, then I will likely look into jacking the car up eventually. Perhaps it might be just an issue of tightening a bolt or two to keep a gasket from leaking. Somebody else on the forum solved the problem just by tightening a bolt or two.

Aside from the cover on the timing belt, I was also interested in the respondents input on techniques for jacking up the car for the following reason. In the future, I will probably want to check the front differential oil, drive shaft boots and the ball joints and dust covers, rather than paying a dealer or Indie mechanic to do it. I like to do things myself: it's generally cheaper and gives me a sense of satisfaction.

The car is getting old: it's over 13 years old and has about 112K miles on it. I have never had the front differential oil, the drive shaft boots or the ball joints and dust covers checked since I bought the car, despite the fact the Toyota owner's Maintenance Guide suggested doing these things thousands of miles ago. This trip to the dealer is the first time I have had it done. I only took it to the dealer, because I am starting a new job and an Indie mechanic I asked about doing the check kind of balked at some of the items like "Tighten nuts and bolts on chassis" for driving on dusty and dirt roads. I did used to drive quite a bit on dusty and dirt roads, but never primarily.

Thanks,

R.

[tmontague]

Does anyone else see the mistake The op is making or am I the only one?

The OP has stated he sees in oil leak on his timing chain cover. But he also states it has been 1700 miles since the last oil change. The oil dipstick says full or even a little more than full. Therefore the leak is not significant enough to worry about.

BUT He is determined to jack up his car and go mucking about underneath the engine!

This may result in problems!

:eek:

Some of us like to investigate things, learn more and keep our heads out of the sand.

Not sure how the OP is making a mistake here. Not inspecting the "leak" himself would be a mistake. So would replacing the timing cover seal only based off what the dealer said.

The OP didn't state he is going to replace anything, he simply wants to inspect it himself and is asking relevant question to do so in an appropriate manner. Good on him

[bronsin]

I based my comments from what the OP said about the oil level. If the oil level isn’t going down the leak is not significant.

Some problems require that action to be taken. This isn’t one of them. Make your life as easy as possible!

[Mister]

Or you can just go full American redneck and cement a dozen concrete bricks onto your driveway and just drive and park your front wheels on the cemented bricks which raises the front of your car a bit, hehe

Basic dude stuff...................

I stole a dozen solid concrete paving bricks from an abandoned construction site and I use 2 tire jacks to slightly lift the front so I can stick a hydraulic jack in the front centre.

I then place 1 layer of cement bricks under each tyre. I will also throw in jack stands under the frame and leave the 2 tyre jacks and hydraulic jack, each taking a share of the weight of the lego vehicle.

What could possibly go wrong there?