got the turbo PICS NOW>

[joey1320]

ok i'm just gonna start over since some of the info from earlier was wrong.
ok, i have 2 used turbos to use on my '07 LB, one is a '99 VW Jetta K03 turbo, wastegated internally at 5psi.

the second is a Garrett GT2056 wastegated internally at 7psi. both are used as stated above, the k03 has 80k miles on it so a rebuild will be necessary if i decide to use it. the gt2056 has 4k miles of use and is in perfect condition, therefor i'm going to be using the Garrett turbo for my setup. just gotta keep putting the pieces together, but first i need to get a spare engine.


Heres a couple of pics of the turbos so you guys can see the difference between the 2.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pb00f61b977a1bae6c673df41a0f635f3/e8f9b375.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pea7c75f94e307575443b0553f5653ece/e8f9b36c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p83ebefbaf0d0163a1346e522530636d2/e8f9b366.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pb805a291ae416919c6cca87102467242/e8f9b362.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4a2321c01aa6bd5b3c16f89edbcebbe8/e8f9ae1a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pdf0fdac14530ff401c9a9716d8d13e2c/e8f9ae14.jpg


heres the info from Garrett, regarding the GT2056.
GT2056 (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT20/GT2056_751578_2.htm)

these are pics of the K03.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pa73614d1ffca8c4c6a34447a4df95d08/e8f9adf5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pd6a6c7162c129b4717b06161adfceaa3/e8f9ad46.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p42de10f1b4ca30dd0a1dc2f09e05f0f8/e8f9a96e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p18122d4d91aa8557fcbec3eb79f2cebe/e8f9a846.jpg

[Doc Zaius]

First off, I'm a turbo n00b... I only know what I've read and researched online. That being said, I have a feeling the GT25 will be too big. I've been looking into either a GT20 or GT17-sized turbo for the Yaris. Since our engines are only 1.5L, and redline @ 6,300-6,500 RPM, they can't flow too much air. The length of time needed to spool a GT25 up would mean it wouldn't be very streetable... i.e. slow response. Also, I think with this size of compressor, you'd possibly be operating near surge at lower RPM.

Anyhow... I don't know about the K03. I'll have to read about that. But ya, if you can find the compression map or specs for either or both of the turbos, some of the more experienced members here would be able to give you some solid advice! :thumbsup:

[NonStopTuning]

Sounds like an interesting project Joey. Might I suggest looking for a Toyota CT9 or CT12 turbo. I have had personal experience with these on a 1.5 Toyota in the past and the response was excellent. The turbos are also very small and very easy to fit into the engine bay. Just a thought.

[sdmf]

would there be another option for turbo in the future?

[joey1320]

Sounds like an interesting project Joey. Might I suggest looking for a Toyota CT9 or CT12 turbo. I have had personal experience with these on a 1.5 Toyota in the past and the response was excellent. The turbos are also very small and very easy to fit into the engine bay. Just a thought.

i have been thinking about all kinds of turbo sizes and ideas as to what use, but these two turbos are free and the Garrett is in perfect condition. so i'm gonna go with it, if it doesn't work goo dthen i'll use the k03 since its a perfect replacement.

thanks for info!

[weaponrcamry]

I guess your looking for a complete build. For me if I decide to boost my motor I would use the ct26 or ct27 that were used in the older supras, mr2, or celica all trac. Good for about 16lbs of boost. Spikes around 18lbs or so. But I guess you found the turbos you wanted, which is a good thing... How much boost are u looking for?? Good luck with your project...:w00t:

[Black Yaris]

Joey, couldn't you just ebay your Garrett Turbo , for one of the Toyota turbo's NST has used on 1.5's b4 with positive results? just a though

[joey1320]

Joey, couldn't you just ebay your Garrett Turbo , for one of the Toyota turbo's NST has used on 1.5's b4 with positive results? just a though


i could but if you look at the Garrett webpage they consider the GT2056 appropiate for engines with 1.4L-2.0L of displacement. The good thing is that if i use the Garrett and for whatever the reason i don't like the way it spools or reacts to the build i can replace it with the smaller K03 which is a straight swap for the manifold.

so in other words i can have 2 turbos for the same manifold with difference results. both were free and all i'll have to do is get the rebuild kit for the k03 which is about $65 from ebay.

what do you think?:redface:

[Turbo&Auto]

Forget the K03, it will net small gains. Too much fab and tuning for a lil gain when you have a better candidate waiting :)

A GT25 would be nice, or even the GT28R :D

[WRBlue]

IMHO, even the GT2056 is too small.

I assume your gonna build the engine, so I figure 1 bar of boost, with a 1psi pressure drop. So thats a PR of 2.07 and a corrected mass flow of 20.13. That drops you out of the maximum efficiency. Running a GT2252 however would be perfect, that drops you right in the maximum efficiency island. On a Yaris, to run a GT2056, you want to run ~9psi. Any lower than that and you rapidly drop off into crappy efficiency.

[Black Yaris]

Yeah... so I do not know anything about boost.... so I am going to shut up now

[joey1320]

Yeah... so I do not know anything about boost.... so I am going to shut up now

hey we are all learning here...:smile:


IMHO, even the GT2056 is too small.

I assume your gonna build the engine, so I figure 1 bar of boost, with a 1psi pressure drop. So thats a PR of 2.07 and a corrected mass flow of 20.13. That drops you out of the maximum efficiency. Running a GT2252 however would be perfect, that drops you right in the maximum efficiency island. On a Yaris, to run a GT2056, you want to run ~9psi. Any lower than that and you rapidly drop off into crappy efficiency.



my plan is to get 150 whp which i think will make for a great daily driver. yes i can push it past 200whp and what not but i want a reliable car. one that once is put together i'll only have to do the regular oil changes and maintenance.

so with the GT2056 being internally wastegated at 7psi, you think is not gonna be an efficient turbo?

the engine is gonna get a simple build. rods, pistons, new headbolts(hopefully arp) and emanage. the bore will be the same 75mm and the compression rario should be at 9.5:1. i plan on getting a different intake manifold and may a tC TB like "turboyaris" has. but thats all. the head/drivetrain will be stock.

[Black Yaris]

So.... Joey, You build a turbo setup that is a clean install, I will so drive my happy lil ass out there to run the same set up for what for what ever fair price you come up with

[Black Yaris]

I am sure there is another Ohio boy that may be interested in this as well

[joey1320]

So.... Joey, You build a turbo setup that is a clean install, I will so drive my happy lil ass out there to run the same set up for what for what ever fair price you come up with


thats the plan. a simple, clean, reliable turbo engine.
not 30939484995 horsepowers to the wheels on a front wheel drive.
what for???

thats what happened to my friend who i got these turbos from. he has a '99 Jetta and wanted BOOOOSSSSSTTTT. so after replacing the stock turbo(k03) with the Garrett he was still not happy. Even tough he was boosting 19psi. so he got a humongous Garrett turbo with 27psi of boost.

he build the engine, spending almost $8grand on it. took it to the dyno, made 461whp, drove the car less than 2 weeks and one of the intake valves exploded. so now he needs a new engine, turbo and all the miscellanious stuff... :redface:

why do peoplw do that, i don't know. i guess ego...:confused:

[cali yaris]

external wastegate would be more controllable, just a thought

[YarisTom73]

Once one of you guys get a setup like this up and running, Ohio is just a short day drive for me, I'd love to see it/replicate it. Keep us posted please...

[Doc Zaius]

Alright... here's my thoughts:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/catalog/Turbochargers/gt20_images/GT2056_751578_comp.gif

This is the compression map for a GT2056, 55 trim... probably the same or close to what you have. Now, if you're hoping to make 150 HP at the crank, and we assume a few things like air/fuel ratio of 12:1, and fuel consumption (BSFC) of 0.6, then your actual airflow will be about 18 lb/min. Depending on the actual air/fuel ratio or fuel consumption, this could actually be anywhere from about 16 lb/min to 20 lb/min.

Next, to figure out the Manifold Absolute Pressure, we take the airflow value of 18 lb/min, and a few other things:


gas constant = 639.6
intake manifold temp = 130 F (assumed)
volumetric efficiency = 96% (assumed)
engine speed = 6,400 RPM
engine displacement = 1,500cc

Plug all that into a equation, and get a MAP of about 24, but could be anywhere from 21.5 to 26.6 or so. Subtract ambient air pressure (14.7 psi), and add a few psi for pressure loss due to piping and air filter restrictions, and you're looking at a pressure ratio of about 1.9 (could be 1.7 to about 2.1).

Whew! :tongue:

Plotting 18 lb/min and 1.9 pressure ratio on the graph, and you're looking pretty good. Pretty far from the choke line on the right... and just off the biggest efficiency island at full RPM. If we replug in some numbers to find out airflow @ 3,000 RPM with the pressure ratio of 1.9, we get 8.5 lb/min, so just barely inside the surge line on the left.

So these are just the numbers... interpreting them is not my thing. It looks like this turbo would be good for high RPM operation, but might have a bit of lag. I don't know. But good luck... I'll be following this project with much anticipation!! :thumbsup:

BTW, all these equations and stuff I learnt came from Garrett's website (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_systems_tech_center.html), and building an Excel spreadsheet to help play around with values.

[Black Yaris]

Once one of you guys get a setup like this up and running, Ohio is just a short day drive for me, I'd love to see it/replicate it. Keep us posted please...

Ohio is where it's at!

Funny thing is most of the good idea's for our cars is coming out of the mid-west.... For god's sake all I have to say is... CHINOCHARLES.... http://www.toledotuners.com/phpBB3/images/smilies/postwhore.gif

and thanks to ZPI in KY for the Turbo kit
Redline Tuning in MI and me in OH, for the Hood Lift
Chino in OH, the whole driving force behind the NST pulley's and SSK, and the elusive Chinotake
Joey in OH, working on another turbo kit

I am unsure who got the whole Megan racing header prototype started way back when... but for those of us who got em... we thank you for that

[Galavoxx]

Alright... here's my thoughts:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/catalog/Turbochargers/gt20_images/GT2056_751578_comp.gif

This is the compression map for a GT2056, 55 trim... probably the same or close to what you have. Now, if you're hoping to make 150 HP at the crank, and we assume a few things like air/fuel ratio of 12:1, and fuel consumption (BSFC) of 0.6, then your actual airflow will be about 18 lb/min. Depending on the actual air/fuel ratio or fuel consumption, this could actually be anywhere from about 16 lb/min to 20 lb/min.

Next, to figure out the Manifold Absolute Pressure, we take the airflow value of 18 lb/min, and a few other things:


gas constant = 639.6
intake manifold temp = 130 F (assumed)
volumetric efficiency = 96% (assumed)
engine speed = 6,400 RPM
engine displacement = 1,500cc

Plug all that into a equation, and get a MAP of about 24, but could be anywhere from 21.5 to 26.6 or so. Subtract ambient air pressure (14.7 psi), and add a few psi for pressure loss due to piping and air filter restrictions, and you're looking at a pressure ratio of about 1.9 (could be 1.7 to about 2.1).

Whew! :tongue:

Plotting 18 lb/min and 1.9 pressure ratio on the graph, and you're looking pretty good. Pretty far from the choke line on the right... and just off the biggest efficiency island at full RPM. If we replug in some numbers to find out airflow @ 3,000 RPM with the pressure ratio of 1.9, we get 8.5 lb/min, so just barely inside the surge line on the left.

So these are just the numbers... interpreting them is not my thing. It looks like this turbo would be good for high RPM operation, but might have a bit of lag. I don't know. But good luck... I'll be following this project with much anticipation!! :thumbsup:

BTW, all these equations and stuff I learnt came from Garrett's website (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_systems_tech_center.html), and building an Excel spreadsheet to help play around with values.

Way to crunch the numbers!!! :thumbup:

[07typeS]

Seriously that was an awesome job at breaking everything down. I think thats how the zpi kit works as well though, or am I mistaken. To keep it daily driven, and to keep the gas mileage the same, they kept the boost off until like 3 grand. So you could do 65 all day long and keep it under where the boost really starts up.

To me thats the way Id go. Yes your going to have lag, but your also dealing with the lag of the crappy throttle response. Does the emanage speed that up?

[joey1320]

Ohio is where it's at!

Funny thing is most of the good idea's for our cars is coming out of the mid-west.... For god's sake all I have to say is... CHINOCHARLES.... http://www.toledotuners.com/phpBB3/images/smilies/postwhore.gif

and thanks to ZPI in KY for the Turbo kit
Redline Tuning in MI and me in OH, for the Hood Lift
Chino in OH, the whole driving force behind the NST pulley's and SSK, and the elusive Chinotake
Joey in OH, working on another turbo kit

I am unsure who got the whole Megan racing header prototype started way back when... but for those of us who got em... we thank you for that


wow, now that i look at your post i see that is weird that a lot of "midwesterners" are moding' the yaris with performance upgrades... kinda cool!

:thumbup:

[WRBlue]

Now, if you're hoping to make 150 HP at the crank, and we assume a few things like air/fuel ratio of 12:1, and fuel consumption (BSFC) of 0.6, then your actual airflow will be about 18 lb/min. Depending on the actual air/fuel ratio or fuel consumption, this could actually be anywhere from about 16 lb/min to 20 lb/min.

Next, to figure out the Manifold Absolute Pressure, we take the airflow value of 18 lb/min, and a few other things:


gas constant = 639.6
intake manifold temp = 130 F (assumed)
volumetric efficiency = 96% (assumed)
engine speed = 6,400 RPM
engine displacement = 1,500cc

Plug all that into a equation, and get a MAP of about 24, but could be anywhere from 21.5 to 26.6 or so. Subtract ambient air pressure (14.7 psi), and add a few psi for pressure loss due to piping and air filter restrictions, and you're looking at a pressure ratio of about 1.9 (could be 1.7 to about 2.1).

Whew! :tongue:

Plotting 18 lb/min and 1.9 pressure ratio on the graph, and you're looking pretty good. Pretty far from the choke line on the right... and just off the biggest efficiency island at full RPM. If we replug in some numbers to find out airflow @ 3,000 RPM with the pressure ratio of 1.9, we get 8.5 lb/min, so just barely inside the surge line on the left.

I'm wondering where you got the mass flow rate of 18lb/min?
MFR = Di x CID x RPM/2 x Vol.Eff.
CID = Cubic Inches of Displacement = 61" per L or 91.5 for the Yaris
Vol. Eff = Volumetric Efficiency or how efficient the engine is. I only used 90%
Di = Intake Air Density = (Boost + 14.7) / (53.3 x 12 x (460 + Intake Temp))
I used boost at 7psi, so Di = 0.0000585
Using 6500 RPM, Mass Flow Rate = 15.66

Pressure Ratio = 1.54, assuming a 1psi IC Drop ((7+1+14.7)/14.7)

By my best drawing estimate, that puts it as efficient.

[mandriu]

I saw this t3/t4 turbo on ebay looks interesting. I was wondering if one could manipulate an XB turbo header into our yarii. I saw one somewhere that looked like it might.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3T4-TURBO-OIL-LINE-BOV-ADAPTER-SCION-TC-XA-XB-MR2-MR-2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ015QQitemZ2 50133366369QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Doc Zaius]

I'm wondering where you got the mass flow rate of 18lb/min?

Alright... first off, all my equations for figuring this out came from this Garrett turbo page (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html?#t103_7). According to them, to determing actual airflow (cutting and pasting from their site):

First calculate airflow:
Wa = HP * A/F * BSFC/60
Where:
· Wa = Airflowactual (lb/min)
· HP = Horsepower Target (flywheel)
· A/F= Air/Fuel Ratio
· BSFC/60 = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (lb/Hp*hr ) ÷ 60 (to convert from hours to minutes)

(BSFC describes the fuel flow rate required to generate each horsepower. General values of BSFC for turbocharged gasoline engines range from 0.50 to 0.60 and higher. Lower BSFC means that the engine requires less fuel to generate a given horsepower. Race fuels and aggressive tuning are required to reach the low end of the BSFC range described above.)

So I got a Wa of 18 by taking 150 HP, an air/fuel ratio of 12, and a BSFC of 0.6:

Wa = 150 * 12 * 0.6/60 = 18.0 lb/min of air.

The next step (according to them) is to calculate the required manifold pressure to meet this horsepower. Again, cutting and pasting from their site:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/tech_center/tech_103/formula8.jpg

Where:

· MAPreq = Manifold Absolute Pressure (psia) required to meet the horsepower target
· Wa = Airflowactual(lb/min)
· R = Gas Constant = 639.6
· Tm = Intake Manifold Temperature (degrees F)
· VE = Volumetric Efficiency
· N = Engine speed (RPM)
· Vd = engine displacement (Cubic Inches, convert from liters to CI by multiplying by 61.02, ex. 2.0 liters * 61.02 = 122 CI)

It then goes on to explain about pressure loss between the manifold and compressor, atmospheric effects, piping and filter restrictions and pressure loss there, and how to arrive at the final pressure ratio.

:eek:

Hope that helps clear things up. I'm sure there are multiple ways of calculating these things out! :thumbsup:

[joey1320]

small update.

got the stainless steel pipes from acestainless.com
2 90degree bends, 2 T's with 1.5" ID plus a 2" 1 foot extra for the connector.

also got the tC injectors from a hot chick at scionlife.com i'm not a member so i contacted her via myspace and she was really cool. set of 4 for $105 shipped(used) not bad in my opinion. check her out, plus her car, really nice. http://www.myspace.com/CYNCE

[Vanderkitten]

My head hurts, Bobby.
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/00/79/34/image_1834790.jpg

[cali yaris]

[ off topic ] Cynce is cool, I saw her Sunday at DCH Toyota, she got 1st Place tC and I got Best Motor for my tC. Her car is really nicely done.

[ back on topic ]

A lot of turbo lag can be controlled/eliminated via the choice of wastegate and boost controller.

[Vic-2NZFE]

Very interesting project, i would like to see the finished product on the near future.

[marcus]

what about the garrett gt2554

http://www.turbo-kits.com/yaris_turbo_kits.html

[richardholdener]

For what it is worth, I ran the GT2056 on a yaris already with excellent results. System was internally wastegated and offered power gains as low as 2000 rom, reaching peak boost (5 psi) at 3100-3200 rpm. We have exceeded 180 wheel hp (at higher boost level) with this turbo already and will have no trouble reaching 200 wheel hp-though it is more efficent at lower pressure ratios. BTW-I ran a back-to-back comparison between this 2056 and a KO4 from the VW application on my turbo Sprint (for Bonneville). Turbo produced near identical boost curves with slight response nod going to VW. If you install the 2056 on your yaris, you'll be happy.

[KCALB SIRAY]

subscribed =)

[Nexus1155]

see thank you!! everyone thought i was insane for choosing smaller than a GT25, but for a small car like this with a 6300 rev limit it is somewhat on par.... That is why i am hooking up my K03 to the system if i need another project to do... the turbos are itty bitty

[Tamago]

First off, I'm a turbo n00b... I only know what I've read and researched online. That being said, I have a feeling the GT25 will be too big. I've been looking into either a GT20 or GT17-sized turbo for the Yaris. Since our engines are only 1.5L, and redline @ 6,300-6,500 RPM, they can't flow too much air. The length of time needed to spool a GT25 up would mean it wouldn't be very streetable... i.e. slow response. Also, I think with this size of compressor, you'd possibly be operating near surge at lower RPM.

Anyhow... I don't know about the K03. I'll have to read about that. But ya, if you can find the compression map or specs for either or both of the turbos, some of the more experienced members here would be able to give you some solid advice! :thumbsup:

i'm running at TD04 14G from a 2.0L subaru Legacy GT and i have full boost by 3500rpm.. that's plenty early