Are We Still Stuck With the 4-1 Headers?

[Sabretooth]

Ok, I decided to go back into the archives, was looking for Headers... now... Do we actually have a 4-2-1 header yet, or are we still stuck with Meagan Racing 4-1 Header, or did Leo over at Weapons R finally make that 4-2-1 Header he was to make like almost 6 months back.

[tk-421]

Unfortunately, 4-2-1 headers are still not available for the Yaris. NST is supposedly working together with DME to get such a header done. This has been on the table for a while, however, so I don't know if any progress has been made so far.

Also, Chris07LB gave his stock header to the Weapon-R guys for the same purpose, but it doesn't seem that they're any closer to getting it done.

[YarisGuy]

No 4-2-1 header for the Yaris yet.

[Biggie™]

Until someone come out with a whole header/catted pipe replacement for the Yaris, we will never get a 4-2-1 header, there just isn't enough room. Look at the two examples below, the first one is a TRD Yaris header, the second is for an Acura RSX. As you can see, we would need far more length to allow for a 4-2-1.

http://www.trdparts.jp/image/p_exmani-1nz.jpg
TRD 1NZ-FE Exhaust Manifold

http://todaracingusa.com/media/skus/471.jpg
TODA K20A Exhaust Manifold

The advantage of building a "real" Yaris header like the one for the K20A would be the ability to make a true cat back exhaust, and none of the funky bent up over the axle nonsense Toyota gave, it could be straight (well straighter). The problem comes in that a Yaris exhaust system needed to support a 4-2-1 would be illegal. You can not replace the catalytic converter on a car less than 10 years old. There are actual high flow units available that work just as well as the OEM converters, but federal law prohibits converter replacement.

The few guys actually racing the Yaris could just leave the cat out, and run as free flowing as possible. The guys NOT living in California, could use an aftermarket high flow cat, pass emissions and hope that no one smart enough to notice is looking at the modified exhaust.

[NonStopTuning]

^^^ Excellent, excellent reply sir!!! ^^^

[Biggie™]

I was thinking of making a Yaris race header that just exited out behind the passenger front tire. Strangely, it would look very much like a RWD header when viewed out of the car.

http://todaracingusa.com/media/products/65.jpg

[nigel]

http://www.28car.com/acc_dsp.php?h_id=1620&h_url_dsp_src=/acc_ico.php&h_vw=1&h_l_page=6&h_url_lst_src=acc_lst.php&h_mb_id=83930

will that work on yaris?
its for echo ncp10

[Biggie™]

http://www.28car.com/acc_dsp.php?h_id=1620&h_url_dsp_src=/acc_ico.php&h_vw=1&h_l_page=6&h_url_lst_src=acc_lst.php&h_mb_id=83930

will that work on yaris?
its for echo ncp10

There you go, for all those wanting to say they have a 4-2-1 header on their Yaris... 5Zigen

But there's a problem. On a proper 4-2-1 header design, the length of the primaries(tubes coming of the head) need to be far longer then they can be with the current Yaris design. With the limited distance/available space the headers were given, a 4-2-1 header will more than likely not be of as much benefit when compared to a 4-1 OEM/TRD style header.

Just remember... It isn't a coincidence that both the stock Toyota header and the TRD performance header are a 4-1 design.

[Galavoxx]

There you go, for all those wanting to say they have a 4-2-1 header on their Yaris... 5Zigen

But there's a problem. On a proper 4-2-1 header design, the length of the primaries(tubes coming of the head) need to be far longer then they can be with the current Yaris design. With the limited distance/available space the headers were given, a 4-2-1 header will more than likely not be of as much benefit when compared to a 4-1 OEM/TRD style header.

Just remember... It isn't a coincidence that both the stock Toyota header and the TRD performance header are a 4-1 design.

I agree on this point. The 5Zigen (even if you could get it to fit the yaris, which it wont) is not a true 4-2-1 header. That Zigen looks almost like a hybrid 4-1/4-2-1. The header tubes need to be a certain length to get the most power possible out of the header. This length is going to be different on every car. There's no advantage in having a 4-2-1 header, or any header for that matter, if the primaries (and secondaries) aren't tuned to the proper length. This is why the megan header sucks, IMO. They simply replicated the stock header configuration with a larger diameter tubing. Even a 4-1 header needs tuning and header tuning requires R&D and at least an experienced header builder who knows the effects of primary and secondary tube lengths and what collector configuration(s) to use. Replication of the stock header brings no benifits in the scavenging department, only more air flow. The primaries need to be longer in order to better scavenge exhaust gases. This is the benefit of having the 4-2-1 and as I've said in other threads, there just isn't enough space between the stock header and the exhaust flange to make a true bolt-on 4-2-1. So yeah biggie, I think you're right on. This is why WeaponR hasn't released their 4-2-1 yet. They've had more than enough time. To put a header on this car that actually makes power, the whole exhaust system needs to be replaced. And btw, if any of you vendors are going to offer a full system with cat... please please let me be your guinea pig!! :biggrin:

[bladesmith6]

I agree, if you are going to go for the header why not go for the whole shebang? I know I personally want a whole system all the way back even if I have to weld it myself(eventually) I'd prefer to buy if it doesn't cost a quarter of the value of the car. I want to get the most out of this engine without boost since the seals wont hold up over the long haul or so I've read. That Blitz compressor you can turn off is awfully tempting though....

[ROCKLANDTOYOTA]

so right now which header is the best for the money???

[Motorhead6T5]

so right now which header is the best for the money???stock

[Biggie™]

I'm sure I can get a properly designed 4-2-1 header back performance catted exhaust system produced if there is enough demand. But really, how many of you guys outside of Cali(there is NO way to get this CARB approved) would shell out the $800+ to get an extra 10 hp from your $11,000 106 hp econo-box?

[Vanderkitten]

I personally bought the Yaris to put money into... which sounds silly, but it's an affordable, excellent micro-tuner. I would spend $700 on full exhaust, hell, 2 carbon canisters for my Ducati cost $850.

Anyhow, there might be a 4-2-1 solution in the near future... but a question I have is how many HP and ft/lbs. of torque would make it worth buying? Dollar per HP, nothing beats a turbo kit.

[Biggie™]

Anyhow, there might be a 4-2-1 solution in the near future... but a question I have is how many HP and ft/lbs. of torque would make it worth buying? Dollar per HP, nothing beats a turbo kit.

Nothing will compare dollar to dollar with a turbo's ability to produce power. That being said, we still need a better exhaust than the one we were given that wraps around the torsion bar 5 times.

[redduck]

I'd buy one.

[AlphaFox]

if you got a turbo you would need a new header anyways...

[Galavoxx]

I personally bought the Yaris to put money into... which sounds silly, but it's an affordable, excellent micro-tuner. I would spend $700 on full exhaust, hell, 2 carbon canisters for my Ducati cost $850.

Anyhow, there might be a 4-2-1 solution in the near future... but a question I have is how many HP and ft/lbs. of torque would make it worth buying? Dollar per HP, nothing beats a turbo kit.

I want a turbo. So unless someone can make a header that kicks at least 15hp for under $500, I don't know if I'll bite. With a 85+hp engine, 15hp seems to be impossible. The smart thing for some enterprising company to do would be to produce a header 4-1 or 4-2-1 but pair it with a piggyback unit with optional tunes available at time of purchase depending on our configurations. That would be hot and might even produce close to 15hp if done properly. I guess we'll have to wait until someone cracks the engine management before we see if a piggybacked N/A system will even produce power.

[AlphaFox]

:confused: I want a turbo. So unless someone can make a header that kicks at least 15hp for under $500, I don't know if I'll bite. With a 85+hp engine, 15hp seems to be impossible. The smart thing for some enterprising company to do would be to produce a header 4-1 or 4-2-1 but pair it with a piggyback unit with optional tunes available at time of purchase depending on our configurations. That would be hot and might even produce close to 15hp if done properly. I guess we'll have to wait until someone cracks the engine management before we see if a piggybacked N/A system will even produce power.

:confused: :confused:

[Galavoxx]

was i that unclear?

[AlphaFox]

I think your on crack if you think your going to get 15 HP from a header... maybe in like a WRX or something...

[Galavoxx]

I think your on crack if you think your going to get 15 HP from a header... maybe in like a WRX or something...

That's why I mentioned piggyback and why I also said 15hp seems iimpossible, which is why I would never buy one. Read my friend, read!!

[AlphaFox]

unless someone can make a header that kicks at least 15hp for under $500, I don't know if I'll bite.

my bad :wink:

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

im gonna do a header of some kind before the end of summer, but to be honest my current car isn't gonna last me another year 1/2 before i trade it in.im hoping the current european 1.8 yaris(same motor as xd) will make it over here.....

[Yaris Revenge]

Aw, crap, just rig up wunna' these. 4-4-4!!! :laugh:

http://www.ibherdesign.com/eb/toyota/K-18-body-styling-kit.jpg

(It's a joke, don't bother setting me straight, k?) :wink:

~YR

[Biggie™]

Aw, crap, just rig up wunna' these. 4-4-4!!! :laugh:

If they can do it on a 1000cc bike, why not on a 1500cc car. :wink:

http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/catalog/YZFR1_RSB_02.jpg

[Sabretooth]

im gonna do a header of some kind before the end of summer, but to be honest my current car isn't gonna last me another year 1/2 before i trade it in.im hoping the current european 1.8 yaris(same motor as xd) will make it over here.....

Sad to say this seems to be my route after another 2 years or so, but by then I will still have my Yaris. But have a Z28 in the garage to buddy up, maybe the Yaris will rub some eco friendlyness off on the Camaro.

[mrbond]

[QUOTE=tk-421;105103]Unfortunately, 4-2-1 headers are still not available for the Yaris. NST is supposedly working together with DME to get such a header done. QUOTE]

Nah, the DME is still a 4-1 header. I ordered it yesterday and I'm eager to see how it performs.

[BrazdonW]

I thought the weapon R headers were 4-2-1?

[jkuchta]

It is...kind of. The space between 2-1 (the best way I can discribe it) is pretty short, though it should still have some effect.

[kustom play]

that one sick vitz

[Jerkratt]

thought that dc makes a 4-1 and 4-2-1