[HELP] Keeping fog lights when installing HID

[GabL]

Just wondering, is there a way to keep the fog lights (on Canadian models) when changing to HID? I saw on the other thread that people are talking about "possible" ways, but has anyone tried and found a way that really works? Much appreciated. Thank you!

In addition, is it possible to make the fog lights or parking lights the DRL when changing to HID? Thank you!

[GuySmily]

Find a wire that goes live when the headlights are switched on. There MUST be a "headlights on" signal wire from the switch to the DRL box or wherever headlight voltage is controlled.

Tap this wire to run your relay.

If this makes absolutely no sense to you (it depends on your knowledge of electronics) let me know

[GabL]

Has this been tested? Anyone? Thanks!

[Canuck]

In addition, is it possible to make the fog lights or parking lights the DRL when changing to HID? Thank you!


Not street legal.

[GabL]

Not street legal.

Why is that?

[GuySmily]

Switching to HIDs is illegal in the first place. That said, there is no way in hell I would stuff an HID bulb into the stock headlamp anyway. There is no option except a proper retrofit for me.

OEM daytime running lights that I've seen either use the headlights (rare, but the Yaris is an example), highbeams (almost all other cars), or parking/signal lamps (many new GMs IE new corvette). I have never seen foglight based DRLs, as they are probably far less effective at acting as DRLs.

I find that yellow DRLs are more noticeable, yet less blinding than half-powered high beams, and this is the route I intend to go when I do my retro.

[GabL]

Switching to HIDs is illegal in the first place. That said, there is no way in hell I would stuff an HID bulb into the stock headlamp anyway. There is no option except a proper retrofit for me.

OEM daytime running lights that I've seen either use the headlights (rare, but the Yaris is an example), highbeams (almost all other cars), or parking/signal lamps (many new GMs IE new corvette). I have never seen foglight based DRLs, as they are probably far less effective at acting as DRLs.

I find that yellow DRLs are more noticeable, yet less blinding than half-powered high beams, and this is the route I intend to go when I do my retro.

Even doing a retrofit, you will need to find a way to get the DRL running, and this is what I've been trying to get help with... it can be the parking light or any other lights, as long as it works, I think once I get the idea, I can hook the circuit to the light that I want it to be DRL?

[Canuck]

Why is that?

I believe that DRLs must be mounted in the main headlight assembly. Foglamps are too low.

[GabL]

I believe that DRLs must be mounted in the main headlight assembly. Foglamps are too low.

So using the parking light should be ok? As parking light is part of the main headlight assembly.

[Canuck]

So using the parking light should be ok? As parking light is part of the main headlight assembly.

Probably not bright enough.

Best check with your jurisdiction.

DRLs are useless. If you can't see another car during the day, you shouldn't be driving.

OTOH, there are way too many idiots that don't turn on their headlights when needed. I would prefer to see DRLs gone and replaced by a mandatory 'Auto' setting on the light stalk. With no 'Off' position.

[marcus]

actually i beg to differ.. drl does help alot on rainy days, foggy days specially in canada we do get them weather .. specially fog on daytime is a killer. but that depends on where you are ofcourse... and that other people having it not you as the driver..you having drl help other people to see you on this crazy road conditions.

[Canuck]

Yeah but if peeps turn on their headlights when they should, there would be no need for DRL. I would much rather see stalks where the only 2 options are auto and on. That would also prevents those f'ing idiots who drive with no lights at night because there are street lights.

[marcus]

well were not talkin about night time driving, Its daytime fog and rain condition (daytime running lights) people dont turn their headlight on on day time no use and no effect because we human first act on things we do based on our own benefits turning headlights on on day time benefits other people but not the driver itself.. just im own personal comment im sure others got it differently...

[marcus]

but the way 2 ways to keep drl with hid. 1. relay. 2. transfusion.

[GuySmily]

Even doing a retrofit, you will need to find a way to get the DRL running, and this is what I've been trying to get help with... it can be the parking light or any other lights, as long as it works, I think once I get the idea, I can hook the circuit to the light that I want it to be DRL?
Well, you don't HAVE to use DRL if you don't want to. You could probably snip the DRL wire at the DRL box if you liked =p But yes, once you understand the circuit, you can apply it to any bulb. You can make two choices: which bulb, and how bright (DRL/half bright or full brightness). I will explain the brightness part later. First we have to figure out how to change where the DRL is.

FYI, I'm going to write this post as if you know very little about electronics (just for the other readers out there).

Let's start with the headlight circuit diagram from the repair manual. Don't kill me guys... It's a huge picture. I connected all 3 pages into 1 image to make it easier to trace the wires:

http://www.guysmily.com/albums/other/hldiagram.gif


Our headlights are dual filament bulbs (with separate filaments for high and low beams). There are 3 connectors on the bulbs: One pin connects to the high beam, one connects to low beam, and one is connected to BOTH (it is a common pin).

To make it easier for now, let's look at only the headlight bulb on the very left side of the diagram (which is actually the right-side bulb on the car). You'll notice both filaments are connected directly to the battery by the black wire, which is our common wire. So the headlight switches and DRLs and such are on the ground side of the bulb. The green wire is the ground for the high beam, and you can ignore it for now (we will discuss high beams later). The blue wire is for the low beam.

The blue wire splits off. One side goes to the DRL box (which I assume provides a weaker ground, meaning less electricity). The other side goes around through the switches/etc and eventually goes to the ground.

... I will finish this post later. Need to go to sleep right now. Sorry =p

[GabL]

Hey! This is exactly what I needed! But this diagram seems a bit complicated... haha!

The reason I am asking is because I got the OEM HID Module from oversea, and I would like to know how can I hook it up to make it works on our NA models. The HID Module has four bulbs in it, I still have to figure out which one is which. This is what I think they are: One HID Buld for low beam, one regular buld for high beam, one parking light and one signal light. I will do a check with the multimeter to see which wire goes where later. But GuySmiley, it will be appreaciated if you can continue with your post. Thank you!

[marcus]

wicked diagram gabl..question though.. so the headlight is turned on thru ground not power + wire? what about the fog light how was that turned on?

[GabL]

wicked diagram gabl..question though.. so the headlight is turned on thru ground not power + wire? what about the fog light how was that turned on?

Well, you have to ask GuySmiley for that... haha, he posted that diagram.

[marcus]

Well, you have to ask GuySmiley for that... haha, he posted that diagram.

sorry gabl thought it was yours. but anyways we should talk about hid on the next meet...

[GabL]

sorry gabl thought it was yours. but anyways we should talk about hid on the next meet...

yeah, hopefully I can get the circuit figured out and installed by the next meet!

[marcus]

yeah, hopefully I can get the circuit figured out and installed by the next meet!

yah i think the next meet is this weekend sunday

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7520


by the way recent fix on this update 06/25/2010 just disconnect blue wire fr relay.

[IllusionX]

wicked diagram gabl..question though.. so the headlight is turned on thru ground not power + wire? what about the fog light how was that turned on?

all new toyota's are actually ground switched. so you basically can get a constant + (red/positive) anywhere in the car.

[GuySmily]

Information on HID Bulbs
HID bulbs are... sensitive... compared to regular halogen bulbs. They require extra voltage to start up (ignite), and if you turn them off, you must let them "cool down" before turning them back on (30 seconds or so). This is because of the materials used in HID technology.

When you first turn HID lights on, extra voltage is applied to the bulbs (20,000-25,000 volts I think) to convert salts in the bulbs into xenon gas. This is why when you first turn on your HIDs you will see them change colors, starting blue or green, then eventually becoming pure white (or whatever color your bulbs are). The ballasts (the boxes that power HID bulbs) slowly turn down the power to the bulb, since it takes less electricity to keep the lights on once the startup/warmup process is complete.

When you turn the lights off, the voltage to the bulbs are cut off, and as the bulbs cool down the xenon gas slowly turns back into solid salts (takes about 30 seconds).

Now... If you flick your HIDs off and on, they will get pissed off at you and turn red/orange/pink. No joke. When you turn the lights back on, the ballasts feed the full 20,000+ volts into the bulbs even though the salt has already been converted into xenon gas. This damages the bulbs and significantly decreases their life span.

Why does this matter to you?
With your stock headlights, when you flash someone (or switch to high beams), your low beam turns off, and your high beam turns on. Duh, right? But what if we switch to HIDs? Now we've got a problem. We need to keep the low beam on AT THE SAME TIME that the high beam is on. Don't worry, we can solve this very easily when we begin wiring the HIDs.


Information on Wiring Harnesses
Some people will tell you that you can power your HIDs off of the stock wiring 100% safely, and that they have been doing it for the last 10 years!!! Sounds great, right?

There are several reasons I refuse to take power from the stock headlight wires:
The stock wire to the battery is only designed to power one filament at a time (either low or high). This is especially problematic with a kit like GabL has, where we will need to power the high beam bulb AND the low beam HIDs SIMULTANEOUSLY.
HID ballasts pull a lot of current to fire up the bulb (as I explained earlier). Who knows if the stock wiring is designed to handle this extra draw? Do you want to find out by risking a car fire?

What really happens most of the time is people try to use the stock wires for power, but find the HIDs only go "click click click click" and flicker on off on off (which is bad for the bulb as I have already explained). This is because the HID ballast starts to ignite the bulb, but runs out of juice due to the restrictive stock wiring. It tries this over and over again, which slowly kills both itself and the bulb. Some people don't have this problem, but to me, it just isn't worth the risk of losing my whole car.

The Solution
If we use the stock headlight wires to trigger a relay (a special type of switch), we can avoid all these problems. The relay will connect the HID ballasts/bulbs to the battery/ground, using our own wires chosen for this specific purpose.

I'll add more background info as we need it. Now that we know what to do, let's get started. (I'm working on post/part 3 now)

-----------------------------------
fyi, the foglight bulbs appear to be positive switched, while the relay that switches the foglights are negative switched. Confused yet? lol.. Unfortunately, I think the fog lamps turn off when the high beams are turned on, so you cannot simply wire the + and - wires of the fog lights to trigger your relay. The solution is similar to how we will wire GabL's low beam.

[GuySmily]

For a normal bi-xenon retrofit, we want to use this diagram (created by JAZZ, posted @ hidplanet.com):

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/jazzjl1/Tacoma%20Wiring%20Harness/TacomaWiringHarness-2.jpg

#1, #2, and #3 refer to pins on the female socket (plug) for the stock bulb.

True bi-xenon headlamps use a single HID bulb that provides light for both low AND high beam. The projectors in these headlights have a cutoff shield that can be moved up/aside by a solenoid (same way old fashioned doorbells work) to allow more light to escape, forming the high beam.

To mimic the bi-xenon feature, GabL's kit uses an additional bulb to provide the high beam (there is no projector/shield/solenoid/etc in a regular Yaris headlight). While technically, I could erase "Bi-Xenon Solenoid" on the diagram and replace it with "High Beam Bulb," I think we can simplify things even further. You'll notice that in the above diagram, relays are used for both high and low beams. I think we can skip the high beam relay because GabL's kit uses a regular halogen bulb, which is exactly what the stock wiring is designed for.

I am now modifying the diagram to fit GabL's needs in part4/post4.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Real quick before I start part 4 / post 4:

Guys, keep in mind I don't have a Yaris (my girlfriend does)... If anything here doesn't make sense or doesn't match up with your car, let me know. Also, use your common sense. If anything feels dangerous or uncomfortable, stop and think it through before risking hurting/killing yourself.

Your bulb plug looks like this, right?
http://www.comagination.com/images/H4-F-P-HD.jpg

If so, then you probably want to order a MALE connector from here:
http://www.comagination.com/parts.htm
You could cut your stock wire, but... I think that'd be a REALLY bad idea.

People doing single-xenon (low beam only) or proper bixenon retrofits will only need 1.

If you have a kit with HID low and halogen high like GabL, you will need 2 (one pair), because you are going to use the high beam wires from both sides to power the high beam in your kit.

I recommend buying the connectors without wires, because I recommend using thicker wires. I used 12 gauge wire for my setup, but I have a mid-engine car so I had to run wires all the way from the back of my car to the front. People say 14ga is plenty good, and 16ga is fine too. In my opinion, 18ga is the thinnest I would go. If you want to, you can use their connectors with 18ga wire since it will be easier to use. Your choice.

Also... I bought 6 connectors (without wires) because I knew I would screw up and need replacement spades (the pins that go into the stock female plug). I ended up using most of them. I suggest you do like me and buy extras, otherwise if you screw up you'll have to wait for a few days while they ship you new ones. If you buy the connectors with wires, a screwup is easier to fix - you can cut off part of the wire and try again. Still, if you're doing a $200+ HID retro on your $15000+ car, then you may as well spring the extra $5-$10 for a few extra connectors, just in case.

[GuySmily]

Notice that in the diagram in my last post, there's only one set of H4 (common/high/low) wires. This is okay in that case because the stock wires are only used to trigger relays, which takes almost 0 power.

For GabL, I want to eliminate the high beam relay.

...To be continued (working on diagram)

[GabL]

Hey GuySmily, thanks for the info!! However, I am not getting a HID kit, but rather I'm having an OEM module (see my other post http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119097). And it seems that I can keep the factory setup and just re-route the wires to match the lights, but the problem now is the find the matching connectors to fit onto the ones on the headlight module... I hope I don't have to fly to Taiwan to get them...

[GuySmily]

Wow, I didn't realize it was an entire housing and everything. I'm both impressed and appalled that Toyota did this (usually halogen+xenon sharing same bulb is considered to be cheap aftermarket garbage)..

Anyway... In that case, I'll stop where I'm at with this post and continue the discussion in your original thread.

For anyone who is wiring up an aftermarket semi bi-xenon (hid low, halogen high) kit, here is the wiring diagram you'll want:

http://www.guysmily.com/albums/album01/semibixenon.gif

Let me know if you need further help (or see GabL's other thread)