Intake / headers / Exhaust.... do you and I need it???

[ya_RS]

*****Im not telling you what to do .... Just thought I'd share with the new tuners what I'v learned in the past and hope you can walk away with more money in your pocket and Mods to serve you better...*****

If i'm wrong at any point pls feel free to correct me, I'll learn and others will learn


--Intake / Headers / Exhaust (I/H/E):burnrubber: combo's is a great way to get horsepower... BUT at the loss of low end power...


--Having the 3 (I/H/E) gets the air in and out faster but only if your tracking/ Circuit or Auto X ing ... this is due to having the engine always on full throttle, and using high RPMs:thumbsup:


--The downside to this is the loss of back pressure ...http://www.warnertechnology.com/Cars/backpressure.shtml


--So if your gonna be tracking your car a lot or doing crazy highway driving then i think its a good investment...


--But if its gonna be a daily driven car ... Why loose the low end torque? sure once you get to WOT (wide open throttle) you get the gain but how often are you there??


--I HAD I/H/E on my civic and it was fun on the track... but around the city:thumbdown:


--So before you rush and spend $$$ on the combo ask yourself if you really need it....


--Spend the money on lightweight rims / Stickier tires / better Suspension (better handing) / CF hood (lighter and nice on the eyes) , better clutch


*****Im not telling you what to do .... Just thought I'd share with the new tuners what I'v learned in the past and hope you can walk away with more money in your pocket and Mods to serve you better...*****


If i'm wrong at any point pls feel free to correct me, I'll learn and others will learn



I myself will opt for not getting these mods cause i bough the car as a fun daily driven car, I will still mod her but tastefully and intelligently

[Spades]

meh, i dont know that you loose that much low end hp and torque from them. granted, i dont have a true intake, just a drop in k&n filter and cut off the bottom half of the airbox facing the radiator to let more cool air in, but it is close to a intake.

I am running extremely large exhaust pipe in preperation of other mods to come (mainly a roots type supercharger when one becomes available), 2.5" from the cat all the way back...not to mention removing that restrictive resonater.

I dont have a header yet, but, with that large of pipe I should have very little back pressure.

With these mods, I have not gained any noticable HP or torque, however, I havent felt a loss in any either. it sounds better though...

Honestly, the few hp loss at 2k rpms is most likely not going to make the car horrible to drive in the city.

besides, have you looked at where on the tachometer these cars make their peak hp and torque? heh...you pretty much have to rev the piss out of them just to pass a old fart driving 10mph under the speed limit...who cares about a couple hp not being available till 4k rpm?

[lostmind]

I've only had my yaris a short time. I've noticed that these cars don't make much power at all until you are really high in rpm's...

Which is why, imo, losing anything down low sucks.

Of course, I am running an intake and an exhaust... for me it's all for the sound though. The car is slow anyways... it is fun to really rev it up when you are near someone and watch them look around for the sports car and realise it's just a yaris making all that noise... and then they still pass me in their minivan with 5 kids! :) hehehe

[ya_RS]

the low end power loss isnt much... I just personally think its not worth it for my style of driving and would rather spend it on other performance gaining mods

U will get gains but its where in the npower band will it come in thats all

[RShatchback]

I've only had my yaris a short time. I've noticed that these cars don't make much power at all until you are really high in rpm's...

Which is why, imo, losing anything down low sucks.

Of course, I am running an intake and an exhaust... for me it's all for the sound though. The car is slow anyways... it is fun to really rev it up when you are near someone and watch them look around for the sports car and realise it's just a yaris making all that noise... and then they still pass me in their minivan with 5 kids! :) hehehe

I was thinking about writing something similar when i saw your reply...there is such low power anyway - i dont miss any little that I may have lost down low by adding intake and exhaust - I know I enjoy the sound - thats why I did it..

[ChinoCharles]

You could argue that any mod is stupid AND concurrently that the same mod is the best thing ever! Who cares?! :laugh: You answered your own questions...

the low end power loss isnt much... I just personally think its not worth it for my style of driving and would rather spend it on other performance gaining mods

Stick with that.

[Biggie™]

You basically have to pick an RPM range before tuning a naturally aspirated engine. And the higher the power number you are after the higher that target RPM will be. The components used by Toyota in the stock Yaris were specifically designed for a broad linear power curve with an emphases on economy.

Intake = A good intake wont hurt performance. The factory builds in a lot of little doohickies to make the intake quieter, and when taking those out you can see a performance gain with no low end power loss. The down side is there are far more poorly designed intakes than ones that are at least equal to the factory unit.

Header = This along with cams is where you will lose the most low end torque. An explanation of the proper way to build/tune an NA header could fill a book all on its own. The length of the primary header piping, the sequence the cylinders are collected, 4-2-1 or 4-1 header design... Needless to say, the little headers available of the Yaris for $200 are not worth it at all.

Exhausts = Bigger will move more, but a small amount of gas will move slowly and cool quickly through an exhaust that is too big. Again, this is where you tune for a specific power/rpm. You want the gasses to move as quickly as possible, retaining as much heat and have the least amount of resistance. So you have to factor all that together to pick the correct piping diameter.

[marcus]

[QUOTE=ya_RS;115689][B][I]*****Im not telling you what to do .... Just thought I'd share with the new tuners what I'v learned in the past and hope you can walk away with more money in your pocket and Mods to serve you better...*****


yo bro did you get ur rs yet?? ready for another meet??

[mandriu]

I have done a number of mods on my yaris, and I tell you what. It is still slow. and it still gets some killer gas mileage.

[Nigal]

I have an intake and had planned on a cat-back system but am thinking I'd rather swap out pullies, add a sway bar, lower it with new rims instead. I think the things that make a car faster are the things that make it quicker. You'll be a lot quicker with strut bars and a sway bar than a new exhaust simply because your car will handle better and you can give it more gas when maneuvering or turning. And let's face it gang, the Yaris, no matter what you do to it, will never shine in the 1/4 mile. It's that favorite cloverleaf onramp or curvy back road we enjoy so much.

[Spades]

well, if you lower it with new rims unless they are lightwieght alloys, forget about the whole handling and accelerating better, heavy 17s sapped my car of power and gave it a worse ride...they look nice though!


and no, even with significant mods (other than boost or nitrous) you wont notice much, but its something

[jdium]

I agree with most of that. The comment to save your money and buy a carbon fiber hood because it saves weight I disagree with tho. A carbon hood going to be so close in weight to the little thing already on the car, that I can't justify the $450 for it. It does look great tho. I just can't have a rain catcher on my car in the Pacific NW :biggrin:

The best money to be spent on these cars is on a suspension setup, one that was designed as a set, not a piece together e-bay setup. Add in some sticky tires on lightweight 15's, a good clutch and lightweight flywheel, and enjoy. That's my plans atleast :smile:

[ya_RS]

I agree with most of that. The comment to save your money and buy a carbon fiber hood because it saves weight I disagree with tho. A carbon hood going to be so close in weight to the little thing already on the car, that I can't justify the $450 for it. It does look great tho. I just can't have a rain catcher on my car in the Pacific NW :biggrin:

The best money to be spent on these cars is on a suspension setup, one that was designed as a set, not a piece together e-bay setup. Add in some sticky tires on lightweight 15's, a good clutch and lightweight flywheel, and enjoy. That's my plans atleast :smile:



TRUE only cause our hoods are so small.....:biggrin:

one thing i like to keep in mind as well



"Why do a quarter mile, when you can do a whole track!!!"

[Polish0017]

"Why do a quarter mile, when you can do a whole track!!!"[/QUOTE]

And that's why I didn't buy an American car. XD

All I really want to do with my car is add in an intake for that little bit of "umph" under the hood. I'm also seriously considering grounding the engine for that little bit of boost off first. Besides that... possibly a new cam -if it ever comes out- and I really want to lower it. I saw a set of lowering springs on TRD's site not too long ago.

And by the way: I don't care if their heavy, I love my steelies.

[Spades]

heh, exhaust,header,and intake on a stock car is much better for hassle-free power gains than cams are.

in my experience most stage 1 cams are too much for stock engines, they throw codes, f==k your gas milage, and MAYBE make 15hp at the flywheel...not to mention the retards that put stage 2 or stage 3 cams in their stock honda civics.

besides, if you are gonna spend 400 bucks, get a differant clutch and flywheel instead of a set of cams...seriously...much better investment.

back on topic...no one needs mods...we do them for looks, sound, and horsepower. I/H/E offers all 3 of those. if you dont wanna put them on your car then dont,lol.

[black2yaris]

TRD intake was all I needed ! Gave mine just enuff POP off the line & helps out on the gas mileage thou a small increase there but that's why i got the car in the 1st place GAS MILEAGE ,beside the looks. Also went with the THIN 7 spoke alloy 15" Toyota wheel, cleaner look plus much lighter than the WIDE 5 spoke alloy that came with the car , TRD sway bar really helped out on the handeling .. was gonna go with the TRD exhaust but the Dealer's parts girl(a real gear head) said why swap out a life time warrentty on the stock exhaust for a 12 month on the TRD pipe ?

[RShatchback]

TRD intake was all I needed ! Gave mine just enuff POP of the line & helps out on the gas mileage thou a small increase there but that's why i got the car in the 1st place GAS MILEAGE ,beside the looks. Also went with the THIN 7 spoke alloy 15" Toyota wheel, cleaner look plus much lighter than the WIDE 5 spoke alloy that came with the car , TRD sway bar really helped out on the handeling .. was gonna go with the TRD exhaust but the Dealer's parts girl(a real gear head) said why swap out a life time warrentty on the stock exhaust for a 12 month on the TRD pipe ?

Or you could still get that TRD exhaust off of ebay or from an internet source for a hell of a lot cheaper than the dealership - put it on in your driveway in about 20mins and love it - and if you ever have to bring your car in for service swap it back out, it takes just as much time and is just as easy as changing a tire....

[speed1]

Yeah,
they go ligher rims to shine, bars to stiff. But to move?
N/A high revs. Turbo high torque.

[cali yaris]

The dealer can't void your warranty for installing TRD parts. They are Toyota parts! In fact, they can't void your warranty for most aftermarket parts, unless they can prove the part caused the problem.

Some dealerships are more rigid about it than others; but usually getting to know the Service Manager avoids any conflict.

[xnamerxx]

If i'm wrong at any point pls feel free to correct me, I'll learn and others will learn[/I]




--Having the 3 (I/H/E) gets the air in and out faster but only if your tracking/ Circuit or Auto X ing ... this is due to having the engine always on full throttle, and using high RPMs:thumbsup:


If its properly designed there won't be a significant loss of low end torque..you also want low end torque for Autox and drag racing, or if you just retain the stock gearing and are circuit racing. With all the work i've done to my car there is actually a gain in low rpm torque...these engines have very very good torque management.


--The downside to this is the loss of back pressure ...http://www.warnertechnology.com/Cars/backpressure.shtml


That's sort of a misnomer back pressure is always bad and any significant backpressure will result in a horrible loss of power at every rpm point as there is no scavenging going on if there is pressure in the pipes. You want the exhaust to be under a constant vacuum as that's what makes scavenging work. Plus were also talking about 4 stroke engines here...the difference between a truly terrible designed exhaust and the best one ever is a few percent...you can move the torque band around a bit but that's more of a tuning device.




--So before you rush and spend $$$ on the combo ask yourself if you really need it....


--Spend the money on lightweight rims / Stickier tires / better Suspension (better handing) / CF hood (lighter and nice on the eyes) , better clutch

Of that list the tire, rims,suspension are the only things I would touch. Why waste money on a clutch that makes driving around worse and isn't needed when the stock clutch is easily capable of handling the power?
CF hood's don't weigh significantly less cost quit a bit money and you don't gain much after its painted. It would be far better to spend money on significant weight reduction ie battery, seats, rims, flywheel, etc.



If i'm wrong at any point pls feel free to correct me, I'll learn and others will learn[/I][/B]

[1.5]

Moss Magnuson Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

Basically unless the dealer can provide proof that your modification, aftermarket or not, caused the issue then they cannot void the warranty.

Also states... "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty..."
"

[speed1]

So please,
what I know to squeeze hp from N/A engine best intake e exhaust flow needed.
I don't know DC 4-1 but don't believe much difference than weapon 4-2-1.
Both larger primary, both same total size.
I read 4-2-1 made for low end but when I tried weapon with stock engine I noticed loss at low and gain at mid e hi.
Weapon-r intake manifold with 1zz TB + header can be choice to add 5hp?

[xnamerxx]

You probably noticed a loss of torque at the low end because WR increase the header volume by increasing primary size and not primary length. When you oversize the primary size the exhaust velocity is low at low speeds and high at high speeds.

Its a limitation most aftermarket header companies are stuck with because they can't increase the length so that's the only way to increase the manifold volume.

[speed1]

Then better make stock diameter primary longer or better make longer aftermarket that yet is larger primary?
So better 45mm stock pipe diameter or better make 50mm?
Cause I heard 50mm is best for yaris exhaust pipe.......
Is it?