Japanese products

[YarisTom73]

OK, every two seconds I see an ad for Yaris (or any Japanese car) parts being imported from Japan. The thing that's starting to get on my nerves is: what's the big deal about "100% made in Japan"? Do these companies really expect us to believe that there is no industry in Japan that produces inferior equipment? :iono: It's as if the very country of Japan has a quality control device eliminating any second-rate manufaturing business.
All I'm saying is, beware of all products for sale in cyberland; Made in Japan does not automatically mean 100% perfect and best quality! Despite the American lack of quality in many arenas.
OK, off the soapbox for now :laugh:

[kimona]

Japan has instituted quality assurance measures industry wide that are second to none. Made in Japan... the genuine article, generally means a superior product. Period.

Of course, others including the US are fully capable of building products just as good as the Japanese, and sometimes they do, however...

It's interesting that quality control was actually an idea developed by an American but never accepted by American industry for years. But, the Japanese picked up on the idea rather quickly and QA/QC programs were mandated by the government industry wide. This was an easy transition for the Japanese because of the whole idea of Bushido; it was just a matter of incorporating the American developed quality assurance programs into their manufacturing industries... Bushido took care of the rest, and we marvel at the results today.

For the Japanese, the demand for quality products has been institutionalized into everyday Japanese life; they expect it without exception. If you spend anytime in Japan, you will see and feel this attitude toward quality everywhere.

Only when competition got the better of them did America realize the real significance of quality control and slowly began to voluntarily institutionalize quality assurance manufacturing programs; it was a matter of survival. And, as usual, it was an after the fact situation of having to put out fires. This is our American style of management and manufacturing, and part of the American lifestyle in general, and even with the best of intentions, it is very difficult to change our culture. Pity.

[YarisTom73]

Awesome input. That's the kind of post that makes YW rise above the rest :biggrin:

[Pavel Olavich]

I think the OP is making too much ado about nothing.

Don't over complicate this. The term "Made In Japan" simply means that the product was made in a country that is known for, or has a reputation for high quality.

It is that simple, so why you even made an issue of this, or feel the need to be on some sort of mission of God, to save us all is misguided energy, to be sure.

The best stuff often comes from Japan. They have the best reputation. It reall is that simple. ;-)

And the real reason the Japanese make more reliable products then the Americans has nothing to do with lack on QC/QA knowledge on the part of Americans, and everything to do with the damage caused by Unions in this country over the years, the sky high cost of pensions, healthcare, massive costs that each American car sold is burdened by; something that the Japanese cars have little of, or none of. Many American firms simply cannot afford much QA/QC, as they're being choked by the high cost of pensioners, unions, healthcare, and the like.

Blame our American demise on Trade Unions, Democrats having a sense of entitlement, something for nothing, democrats that completely ignore JFK's fameous speech "...ask not what your country can do for you...rather ask, what can you do for your country..".

But to be fair, the Europeans are even worse the the Americans...they show less productivity the us, often showing less quality then us, and they have an even harder time competing against Japanese made products then Americans.

Did you know that most Mercedes models, most Range Rovers, Volvos, costing $80,000+ are LESS reliable then our Yaris? Hell, even less reliable then most American Chevy's!

[jdium]

Who cares where something is made??? I don't understand the infatuation with "JDM" parts, made in Japan parts, etc. I want the best quality parts, for the best value. Sometimes that means Japanese parts, sometimes that means American parts, sometimes that means Japanese products being produced in Mexico with American parts, etc. I'm not brand blind/loyal. If it's the right quality for the right price, it's my preferred product... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/expressive/soapbox.gif

[Pars]

I've heard that Toyota manufactors the parts slotted for the assembly line themselves, while the other manufacture will rely on third party sources. Normally, getting the stuff made in-house equates to inferior products (more so in a union shop). It's a wonder that Toyota can still get quality stuff while doing it themselves.

Once the car is built, the OEM stuff is usually garbage compared to the stuff that's put into a newly assemble car. The aftermarket performance stuff are much more expensive, but tend to be quality products.

When my old-man used to work with Magna and the first guy to be able to program the robots to apply clear-coat on wet paint (back in the 80th, no one else was doing it), The Japanese were all over their assemble plant to figure-out how they did it. And they still couldn't duplicate the process. Seems that they still can't get the handle on giving the car a quality paint job. Perhaps relying too heavily on the Japanese mine-set will be a disadvantage. Granted, the Japanese have the right attitude, we all should take pride in our work, but in N.A, there's a diverse talent pool with people who are more intuitive rather then analytical. It's just a matter of time before the world wins out against one country (in the automotive arena).

[Black Yaris]

I think the OP is making too much ado about nothing.

Don't over complicate this. The term "Made In Japan" simply means that the product was made in a country that is known for, or has a reputation for high quality.

It is that simple, so why you even made an issue of this, or feel the need to be on some sort of mission of God, to save us all is misguided energy, to be sure.

The best stuff often comes from Japan. They have the best reputation. It reall is that simple. ;-)

And the real reason the Japanese make more reliable products then the Americans has nothing to do with lack on QC/QA knowledge on the part of Americans, and everything to do with the damage caused by Unions in this country over the years, the sky high cost of pensions, healthcare, massive costs that each American car sold is burdened by; something that the Japanese cars have little of, or none of. Many American firms simply cannot afford much QA/QC, as they're being choked by the high cost of pensioners, unions, healthcare, and the like.

Blame our American demise on Trade Unions, Democrats having a sense of entitlement, something for nothing, democrats that completely ignore JFK's fameous speech "...ask not what your country can do for you...rather ask, what can you do for your country..".

But to be fair, the Europeans are even worse the the Americans...they show less productivity the us, often showing less quality then us, and they have an even harder time competing against Japanese made products then Americans.

Did you know that most Mercedes models, most Range Rovers, Volvos, costing $80,000+ are LESS reliable then our Yaris? Hell, even less reliable then most American Chevy's!

WOW something I actually agree with Pavel with... I think those are the first coherent words I have ever seen you type:clap:

[Black Yaris]

I've heard that Toyota manufactors the parts slotted for the assembly line themselves, while the other manufacture will rely on third party sources. Normally, getting the stuff made in-house equates to inferior products (more so in a union shop). It's a wonder that Toyota can still get quality stuff while doing it themselves.

Once the car is built, the OEM stuff is usually garbage compared to the stuff that's put into a newly assemble car. The aftermarket performance stuff are much more expensive, but tend to be quality products.

When my old-man used to work with Magna and the first guy to be able to program the robots to apply clear-coat on wet paint (back in the 80th, no one else was doing it), The Japanese were all over their assemble plant to figure-out how they did it. And they still couldn't duplicate the process. Seems that they still can't get the handle on giving the car a quality paint job. Perhaps relying too heavily on the Japanese mine-set will be a disadvantage. Granted, the Japanese have the right attitude, we all should take pride in our work, but in N.A, there's a diverse talent pool with people who are more intuitive rather then analytical. It's just a matter of time before the world wins out against one country (in the automotive arena).

Toyota relys on 3rd parties just as much as everyother manifacture, but they just have a more strict QC policy.... for example
Chevy will except a 1 in 1000 part failier rate
Toyota will only except 1 in 10,000

[BokChoi]

I Love My Yaris!!!

[kimona]

Perhaps relying too heavily on the Japanese mine-set will be a disadvantage. Granted, the Japanese have the right attitude, we all should take pride in our work, but in N.A, there's a diverse talent pool with people who are more intuitive rather then analytical. It's just a matter of time before the world wins out against one country (in the automotive arena).

Certainly the Japanese are masters at "reinventing the wheel" and then perfecting it. But, contrary to Western thought, this requires not only analytical minds but highly creative ones as well.

Intuition by definition is non-logical and cannot support a manufacturing base (and culture) indefinitely. As America continues to struggle with integrating these principles in industry and into our QA/QC programmes, Japan watches in disbelief... and we all witness the disintegration of American industry (and society)... and we continue to make excuses and blame others with verbose rhetoric.

In the "automotive arena", it's already abundantly clear that Japan is winning the race, and America hasn't got a hope in hell of ever catching up.

[Black Yaris]

Certainly the Japanese are masters at "reinventing the wheel" and then perfecting it. But, contrary to Western thought, this requires not only analytical minds but highly creative ones as well.

Intuition by definition is non-logical and cannot support a manufacturing base (and culture) indefinitely. As America continues to struggle with integrating these principles in industry and into our QA/QC programmes, Japan watches in disbelief... and we all witness the disintegration of American industry (and society)... and we continue to make excuses and blame others with verbose rhetoric.

In the "automotive arena", it's already abundantly clear that Japan is winning the race, and America hasn't got a hope in hell of ever catching up.
Beautifully put.... and very true.... I truely believe GM and Ford are one day going to be thought of the same way we think of AMC's, Overland's and so on

[voodoo22]

If you ever have the chance, go to Japan.

It can be, but doesn't have to be expensive. It is an amazing society with higher standards than anywhere I have ever been.

Go to Japan and see what it's like. You'll be surprised at the high standards demanded across the board.

Japanese do not accept poor quality and service and that's the only reason the Japanese companies have higher standards. It has nothing to do with Japanese being smarter, but it has everything to do with the fact that if you do not offer a product which gives the consumer quality for the money, you will not make a profit.

One of the most surprising things about Japan is there is no such thing as a tip. You are expected to do your job well. It's not like Toronto where you get crap service, ok products and are still expected to give a 15% tip.

Japan isn't some Utopia, but it is definitely a very unique and high quality society, especially for men.

[YarisTom73]

I think the OP is making too much ado about nothing.

Don't over complicate this. The term "Made In Japan" simply means that the product was made in a country that is known for, or has a reputation for high quality.

It is that simple, so why you even made an issue of this, or feel the need to be on some sort of mission of God, to save us all is misguided energy, to be sure.

Mission of God? Yikes, talk about too much ado.. all I'm saying, as others have concurred, is that one needs to rely on more than a "100% made in Japan" sticker on his bulbs or muffler or whatever before making a potentially unwise cash investment. (see the most recent post about the TRD sway bar callback). There are ten million companies manufacturing both good and bad parts: don't assume that a product made in any country is better than another automatically for that reason exclusively.
I guess once again, it's every consumer for himself...go ahead, invest in that "JDM" Chevy truck part :bellyroll:

[kimona]

I believe we can all safely assume, and with good reason, that the "made in Japan" label generally equates to a superior product. This isn't an opinion; it's a fact!

[CompanyXPaladin]

The only thing I have to add to the quality control and higher quality, more reliable product is that nearly every Japanese corporation received major government funding to stay in business. The Japanese government has an active interest in ensuring only quality products leave Japan - they effectively have an investment in all major Japanese corporations. To them, the products leaving Japan represent Japan as a whole. They also have an interest in an economic war with several countries of the world, but thats all politics I'm sure no one is interested in.

[Pavel Olavich]

WOW something I actually agree with Pavel with... I think those are the first coherent words I have ever seen you type:clap:

What? Someone agrees with me? This is not good...I was hoping to be the lone wolf with the wierd ideas....are you sure you're not just tired, or drunk, or something? Low blood suger? :bellyroll:

[Pavel Olavich]

The only thing I have to add to the quality control and higher quality, more reliable product is that nearly every Japanese corporation received major government funding to stay in business. The Japanese government has an active interest in ensuring only quality products leave Japan - they effectively have an investment in all major Japanese corporations. To them, the products leaving Japan represent Japan as a whole. They also have an interest in an economic war with several countries of the world, but thats all politics I'm sure no one is interested in.

This is patently not true. In Japan, Nikon, Canon, Mitsubishi will sink or swim on their own. Sure the government facilitates, and is there to do what it can, but I assure you, the Japanese government does not subsidize companies there as standard policy. Their commerce department fights for those companies sure, but to keep exports flowing, and making sure they're treated fairly by other countries, which is a far cry from subsidizing. From their point of view, a company has to stand on it's own feet, sink or swim....some call this "tough love"...and can be applied to raising kids, for that matter....your kid gets locked up for DUI, DON'T bail him out....doing so only hurts him, his future....so goes it with Honda, Toyota and other Japanese firms....

The US Government is selling us all out. Who is there for the working man? The professional guy? Nobody....greedy corporations would rather take our jobs and send them off shore....it's capitalism gone awry...they forgot about us "family" members....mom and dad give the job's in their store to outsiders, and their kids go wanting....but hey, nothing personal, right? Just business. :-(

I'm all for open economies, free trade and all that, but within limits, within a time frame....the jet blast of off shoring is too much too soon, causing a shock to us American working people....open up markets but do it slow, with limits, and over a reasonable time frame....

About Japanese....it may come as a shock to many of you, but the truth is, American workers are more productive then their Japanese counterparts, even as our quality is less....talk about a paradox....

[Black Yaris]

What? Someone agrees with me? This is not good...I was hoping to be the lone wolf with the wierd ideas....are you sure you're not just tired, or drunk, or something? Low blood suger? :bellyroll:

Hey..... I never agree with you Pavel.... tell you the truth I don't like 99.9% of what you come up with.... but this must be that 0.1%, that whole paragraph was dead on... I actually preached the same thing in an earlier thread

[Pavel Olavich]

Hey..... I never agree with you Pavel.... tell you the truth I don't like 99.9% of what you come up with.... but this must be that 0.1%, that whole paragraph was dead on... I actually preached the same thing in an earlier thread

Well then BlackYaris, glad to know you're health is fine, blood sugar is up, and all is well with you....:thumbup: Thanks for your tolerance when we do disagree... :smile:

[YarisTom73]

....

The US Government is selling us all out. Who is there for the working man? The professional guy? Nobody....greedy corporations would rather take our jobs and send them off shore....it's capitalism gone awry...they forgot about us "family" members....mom and dad give the job's in their store to outsiders, and their kids go wanting....but hey, nothing personal, right? Just business. :-(

I'm all for open economies, free trade and all that, but within limits, within a time frame....the jet blast of off shoring is too much too soon, causing a shock to us American working people....open up markets but do it slow, with limits, and over a reasonable time frame....
....
:clap: True that, brother... sad but true :mad: :clap:

[Pars]

Certainly the Japanese are masters at "reinventing the wheel" and then perfecting it. But, contrary to Western thought, this requires not only analytical minds but highly creative ones as well.

Intuition by definition is non-logical and cannot support a manufacturing base (and culture) indefinitely. As America continues to struggle with integrating these principles in industry and into our QA/QC programmes, Japan watches in disbelief... and we all witness the disintegration of American industry (and society)... and we continue to make excuses and blame others with verbose rhetoric.

In the "automotive arena", it's already abundantly clear that Japan is winning the race, and America hasn't got a hope in hell of ever catching up.

From personal experience, the Japanese stuff do tend to be better. Well, I'm on my third pair of Maui Jim sunglasses, but that's because of neglect after owning them for a few years, not bad workmanship.

The Japanese do seem to be a passionate bunch, I'll give them that. Not like us lie-about Indie/South American. Granted, we do tend to do well in middle of the jungle among all the chaos. (that's a discussion more suited for the bookworms and the philosophers, I don't have any patient for it)

Japanese Anime & Kill Bill are my most favorite thing on the DVP players and then there's my Yaris. I guess I shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me :biggrin:

As for winning the automotive race, I'd buy American, if they came up with the right formula (fuel efficiency + hauling capability + sporty drive) in an attractive package. I wouldn't hold workmanship or perceived quality against them. 5 years ago, I might have, but not anymore.

[kimona]

As for winning the automotive race, I'd buy American, if they came up with the right formula (fuel efficiency + hauling capability + sporty drive) in an attractive package. I wouldn't hold workmanship or perceived quality against them. 5 years ago, I might have, but not anymore.

This makes no sense whatsoever!

This is precisely the reason the American automotive industry has lost the race: poor workmanship and the mere perception of quality! And, yes, we need to "hold (this) against them."

[steved]

This makes no sense whatsoever!

This is precisely the reason the American automotive industry has lost the race: poor workmanship and the mere perception of quality! And, yes, we need to "hold (this) against them."

Exactly, the American automotive industry wants one thing, "MONEY". From the Corporation head, the Unions, and the workers who want more money to do less work.

And it is also North American peoples fault also, we want everything for nothing.
Because of that attitude look what we get, poor workmanship and poor quality cars and most things in general. This is also the reason why everything is being sent overseas. Imagine how great North America would be if we were more like the Japanese.

Me personally I have this attitude. "Pay now, or pay later".

I would rather pay more for a better quality car then buy a cheaper quality car and pay for all the repairs and extra fuel costs later on, which in the long run is becomes more expensive then buying the better quality car in the first place.

[kimona]

I would rather pay more for a better quality car then buy a cheaper quality car and pay for all the repairs and extra fuel costs later on, which in the long run is becomes more expensive then buying the better quality car in the first place.

Yes. Oui, mon ami.

Not to mention freedom from headaches and aggravation of driving that piece of shit throughout the course of ownership... and then to finally have to deal with the terrible trade-in/resale value.

[ChinoCharles]

I remember not a decade ago when "Made in Blank" was a bad thing. Oh, how things have changed. Way to outsource, American business! :rolleyes:

Pavel, I agreed with you as well and I am so confused.

[jdium]

Exactly, the American automotive industry wants one thing, "MONEY". From the Corporation head, the Unions, and the workers who want more money to do less work.

And it is also North American peoples fault also, we want everything for nothing.


??????

You saying you don't want money? You don't want more money for less work? I'm pretty sure the Japanese public would ALL love to get more money for less time working, as well as cheaper prices. I agree with a good portion of this thread, but this makes no sense...

The US Government is selling us all out. Who is there for the working man? The professional guy? Nobody....greedy corporations would rather take our jobs and send them off shore....it's capitalism gone awry...they forgot about us "family" members....mom and dad give the job's in their store to outsiders, and their kids go wanting....but hey, nothing personal, right? Just business. :-(

I'm all for open economies, free trade and all that, but within limits, within a time frame....

As for this, it sounds hypocritical to me. Greedy corporations are out for one thing, profit. That is not capitalism gone awry, that is capitalism at it's most pure. Get your product produced for the cheapest price, and your profit increases. Corporations have the responsibility to share holders or owners, not to "family" members...

If you are for open economies, get used to the outsourcing. It is a fact. Until North Americans can provide the same products/service for nearly the same price, outsourcing is going to happen. Capitalism has a great way of sorting the winners from the losers if given the chance...

[Pavel Olavich]

I wouldn't hold workmanship or perceived quality against them. 5 years ago, I might have, but not anymore.

Sorry you digressed. Hope you get back on track. It is your very type that the American company's are hoping to find in big numbers, in order to sell shit quality cars.

You need to wake up to the reality that QUALITY sells better then anything.

Everytime I buy Japanese, it is my way of giving American companies the middle finger...F--- them! Why should I buy their BS products?

A true patriot makes high quality products, so then who are the traitors to America? Ford. GM. Chrysler.

[Pavel Olavich]

??????

You saying you don't want money? You don't want more money for less work? I'm pretty sure the Japanese public would ALL love to get more money for less time working, as well as cheaper prices. I agree with a good portion of this thread, but this makes no sense...



As for this, it sounds hypocritical to me. Greedy corporations are out for one thing, profit. That is not capitalism gone awry, that is capitalism at it's most pure. Get your product produced for the cheapest price, and your profit increases. Corporations have the responsibility to share holders or owners, not to "family" members...

If you are for open economies, get used to the outsourcing. It is a fact. Until North Americans can provide the same products/service for nearly the same price, outsourcing is going to happen. Capitalism has a great way of sorting the winners from the losers if given the chance...

Your ignorance is astounding.

There is Capitalism. Then there is wreckless Capitalism. Sorry you do not know the difference.

You have the dillusion that capitalism is all good.

You sadly don't seem to understand that Capitalism must be tempered with what is good for the country as a whole, otherwise it is no worse for the people then socialism, or communism.

You forget that most of the world's standard of living is 1/10 of ours, so if our company's off shore our work to them, guess what is going to happe to us?

OUR STANDARD OF LIVING GOES DOWN, DOWN, DOWN...

so easy for you to spew dillusion when you have a good job.....but what will you say when your industries off shores enmasse to another country?

You will, not might, YOU WILL agree with me if and when that happens.

And to further show your ignorance, you seem to think that it is okay for a company to move production to the lowest bidder, in order to make more $$.. It's not that simple, nor easy.

Better for a company to put quality as number 1....in the long run this will guarentee the highest profits...

You think too much about short term gains...think long, long term...

[ChinoCharles]

We went from Japanese products to communism.

Thread closed. LOL