Twin Charge!!! (the best of both worlds)

[DollaZo]

Imagine a Yaris engine, supercharged for low-down grunt before the turbocharger takes over giving max power trough the rev-range:eyebulge: . This can be seen with the new Golf GT.

1.4-litre, TwinCharged 4 Cylinder producing 125kW and 240Nm of torque. It uses 7.2 litres of petrol per 100km of city and highway driving.

http://www.lucianogiustini.org/blog/images/golfgt.jpg



Now my calculations are verry rough but if the Yaris internals were Beefed-up and with a lighter car and slightly bigger engine this could kill most cars on the road. Keep in mind the the GT is safely tuned.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

it's also found on the VW Tiguan as well. but yeah, i'd love to have both.

[leasaunce]

if only Toyota produce such engine for the Yaris!

[eTiMaGo]

gee, that sounds cool but is our engine bay large enough for all those components and related piping?

[paradigm]

There was a twincharge kit for the old school mr2 too. kinda cool.

[RShatchback]

There was a twincharge kit for the old school mr2 too. kinda cool.

They also make an aftermarket turbo kit for the Cooper S, to make it twin charged - I saw one at Englishtown a couple of years back - if they could fit it all in there, someone could fit it in a yaris bay if they wanted to.

[YarisTom73]

Anyone have pics of this setup? Sounds tasty :drool:

[ChinoCharles]

Oh for the love... are we really talking about this? :laugh: :wink:

[YarisTom73]

Why not..we should look into a big blower with three butterflies sticking up out of the hood, and while we're at it, maybe a valved exhaust cutout for that "race-only" effect :bellyroll:

[RShatchback]

Go to this guys cardomain site - he has the twincharger setup on his cooper, page 2 has some good pics if your interested...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/843287/2

[YarisTom73]

Wow, that's awesome :clap: :thumbsup:

[CompanyXPaladin]

We installed twin superchargers and twin turbochargers (dual-twin-charged?) on my friend's '70 Nova. Definitely a very cool way to go - if you happen to have about $20k laying around. I don't know that it would be worth it on our cars... you would be talking about around $9k for everything, for like 50ish HP, and thats assuming we had the room under our hood; which I don't think we do. If anyone wants to try, though, be sure and keep us posted and take pictures. xD

[Black Yaris]

Oh for the love... are we really talking about this? :laugh: :wink:

I am also wondering why? we can not even get a Turbo to run propperly by it's self let alone with a compressor.... If this were to happen..... It is a VERY long way from happening.... kinda like the Hover Board when Back to the Future came out..... Big Ideas no results

[RShatchback]

I am also wondering why? we can not even get a Turbo to run propperly by it's self let alone with a compressor.... If this were to happen..... It is a VERY long way from happening.... kinda like the Hover Board when Back to the Future came out..... Big Ideas no results

+1 We definetly need to focus on one hurdle at a time, doesnt hurt to dream though

[Black Yaris]

I think we may need to lock this one up for a rainy day.... and after the turbo hurdle has been over come, and a supercharger kit is out, and affordable

[leasky30]

seen this while looking on a japanese site

http://www.brashboy.net/english/dualyaris.html

looks mad

[Lafiro]

seen this while looking on a japanese site

http://www.brashboy.net/english/dualyaris.html

looks mad

15,220.16 USD is what it comes out too.

Basically, New Yaris, + that stuff can get you a much faster car, and more reliable car for all that money.

[punch]

also dodges new super duty deisel, has a special turbo that "changes" with the output, starts as a small turbo, the opens up wider or something, its completly new....

[eTiMaGo]

also dodges new super duty deisel, has a special turbo that "changes" with the output, starts as a small turbo, the opens up wider or something, its completly new....

Hmmm a lot of diesel cars use that now, I know Toyota's current Hilux pickups here have a variable geometry turbo like that, and I thiiink BMW's bigger turbodiesel motors do too.. It is a very interesting technology!

[Kaotic Lazagna]

how about this. twin turbo's and a supercharger!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/Twoturbosandsupercharger.jpg

[eTiMaGo]

*gasp*

[kurokoma-kun]

how about this. twin turbo's and a supercharger!

OMFG :eek:

I like the bright pink accent color, must be a girl's car :biggrin:

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hahaha, could be, but aren't Subaru Tecnica International parts pink?

[kurokoma-kun]

yeah, they are, just like the stickers on the bumper :biggrin:

[punch]

how about this. twin turbo's and a supercharger!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/Twoturbosandsupercharger.jpg

and how do we know this is twin turbo's?

more info, website please...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

and how do we know this is twin turbo's?

more info, website please...

here ya go...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2180560

and

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-105716.html

[punch]

here ya go...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2180560

and

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-105716.html

well there ya go, can't figure it out though,
the exhaust spins the turbos, then goes to the downpipe --check
the supercharger, spins forces air into the intercooler, --- check
intercooler forces air into the cars intake--- check
the twin air filters, suck air into the turbos--- check

wheres the air from the turbo's going????? into the supercharger?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hahaha, not forced fed, so i barely know much (other than the basic force induction stuff).

[Duskin_Carpentier]

well there ya go, can't figure it out though,
the exhaust spins the turbos, then goes to the downpipe --check
the supercharger, spins forces air into the intercooler, --- check
intercooler forces air into the cars intake--- check
the twin air filters, suck air into the turbos--- check

wheres the air from the turbo's going????? into the supercharger?

yes, the air will basically be pressurized out of the compressor of the turbocharger and leading to the inlet of supercharger which is craming even more air. Its a difficult concept to make efficent i think considering there will eventually be a weak link. The turbo charger can really most likely move more air then the supercharger and has the ability to make more power(depending on the size of the blower) so in other words after the turbo spools up and starts making boost sooner than it would the supercharger could actually become a hinderance to the engine because the turbocharger is pushin more air faster than the supercharger can handle. The supercharger as you know is connected to a belt so it will only spin so many rpms and create a fixed amount of boost. So you really have to have it down to a science so they both help eachother and no one pushes the other to far.

[bdc87]

Man the Germans have the best stuff. Long live the V-DUB.

[Slitwrist Smile]

I have a boosted tC. (trd charger). this is not mine, but taken from scionlife :
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/2012183821_e69201074c_o.jpg

[cali yaris]

I've seen that one, it never ran well with that configuration. Props to them for trying a twin charge Scion though.

Here is my tC motor (443 whp / 474 torque @ 23 psi):

http://www.sciontcx.com/images/motor/Linney-0097.jpg

http://www.sciontcx.com/images/motor/Linney-0085.jpg

[at3GG]

:thumbup::bow::respekt::drool:

[ddongbap]

There was a twincharge kit for the old school mr2 too. kinda cool.

HKS made it. Its been discontinued since.

[ddongbap]

Hmmm a lot of diesel cars use that now, I know Toyota's current Hilux pickups here have a variable geometry turbo like that, and I thiiink BMW's bigger turbodiesel motors do too.. It is a very interesting technology!
Mitsu Evos have that too.

[ddongbap]

I've seen that one, it never ran well with that configuration. Props to them for trying a twin charge Scion though.

Here is my tC motor (443 whp / 474 torque @ 23 psi):

http://www.sciontcx.com/images/motor/Linney-0097.jpg

http://www.sciontcx.com/images/motor/Linney-0085.jpg

NOBODY IS SAFE FROM THE BENT FILTER !!!!!

[cali yaris]

LOL, so true!! dammit!

[turboecho2005]

Damn Clean Bay!!!...

Looks f'n nice in there. Too bad we never got the Tc in canada :(

[richardholdener]

I recently ran a test on a 2003 supercharged Mustang Cobra equipped with an Eaton supercharger. We ran the 4.6l 4-valve motor first with the supercharger alone, then with a pair of turbos feeding the supercharger and then again with the turbos alone (no blower). The test on this compound system demonstrated that the blower alone was the least effective in terms of power per pound of boost while the turbos alone were the most effective. Having the turbos feed the blower greatly improved the low-speed power production, but reduced the power output per pound of boost (basically the compound system ended up between the blower and turbo). Remember too that this compound system will dramatically increase the boost pressure supplied tot eh motor. Running the blower at 11 psi and the turbos at 7 psi resulted not in a total of 18 psi in the manifold but actually 23 psi (dropping to 20 psi at power peak). The compound system improves average power but reduces the power of turbo alone. I am currently testing a compound turbo system (large turbo feding a small turbo) on my 3-cylinder turbo Sprint motor.

[Sabretooth]

I believe the Twin charge TC made like 350whp or something close.

[cali yaris]

I heard that too -- and could never find a dyno chart, which you would think they would want to show off. When I saw that car, it wasn't running.

[richardholdener]

This car was on display at SEMA but was more of a gee whiz item. The combination of a centrifugal supercharger and turbo is a bad match. Better to combine a positive displacement supercharger and turbo to broaden power curve.

[Tamago]

more trouble then it's worth...

[PHXDEMON]

Good luck cramming all that in the engine bay :laugh:

[Thej3sta2]

Yeah 'inthemix' just got a turbo scion. Sharp man, sharp

[Tamago]

This car was on display at SEMA but was more of a gee whiz item. The combination of a centrifugal supercharger and turbo is a bad match. Better to combine a positive displacement supercharger and turbo to broaden power curve.

exactly.. that's like putting two monkeys and one bowl of poo in a room and expectin them not to make a mess ;)

[gboezio]

The idea have been discussed and discussed in the BMW community, we assumed that it's more about the "bling" factor, people will always go wow and want to pop the hood to check that insane setup. But in reality, high performance happens at higher RPM, the RPM should never come short of 4000 RPM on a track or road race, leaving the starting line is at WOT and traction is controlled trough the clutch if you ever want to get ahead of the pack, on a road race you just pop two gears and you are boosting within one second.
If someone would build a dyno queen and need help to spool the monster it could do some good and will need a SC bypass valve or the SC would act as a butt plug for the turbo, for this purpose NO2 is usually used to jump start the turbo, as soon as it's generating enough exhaust gases under boost, it will get to peak efficiency pretty easily.
A Yaris is a bad car for running long stretch races, it's nimble and quick around a short track and will benefit from a smaller turbo that will spool fast and make instant boost from 3000 to 6500, this makes more average horsepower going trough the gears than a fat turbo.
Consider the cost and complexity of a compound setup an overkill for speed purposes.
More rotating mass, higher gravity center from the high placed extra weight.
Two compressor, twice the chance of one failing, not to mention that the first one will kill the second then the engine (ok the IC will hold the bigger debris).
Beside that, the Yaris is a very small engine and pulling horsepower from the crank is worth a thread by itself, using power that have been produced trough the small pistons, rods, crank to spin a SC, while the turbo is there and getting the free exhaust energy is a big no-no to me, I feel that these economically engineered parts are the weak link more than the induction capacity, I'd rather want to have this power available to the wheels.
If one is not afraid of complexity, a SC clutch system could be done to desactivate the SC when the turbo is spooled up, along with the SC bypass valve...and it's not gonna win the race :iono:
Why not putting that money on the suspension, tires, brakes where it will definitely gain overall performance.
My two cents :biggrin:

[Split]

i would love to drive a golf GT just to see what its like to make that much power out of a 1.4L motor. that's just unreliable. Germans make the most exciting products, but consequently they're so damn unreliable.

[Tamago]

The idea have been discussed and discussed in the BMW community, we assumed that it's more about the "bling" factor, people will always go wow and want to pop the hood to check that insane setup. But in reality, high performance happens at higher RPM, the RPM should never come short of 4000 RPM on a track or road race, leaving the starting line is at WOT and traction is controlled trough the clutch if you ever want to get ahead of the pack, on a road race you just pop two gears and you are boosting within one second.
If someone would build a dyno queen and need help to spool the monster it could do some good and will need a SC bypass valve or the SC would act as a butt plug for the turbo, for this purpose NO2 is usually used to jump start the turbo, as soon as it's generating enough exhaust gases under boost, it will get to peak efficiency pretty easily.
A Yaris is a bad car for running long stretch races, it's nimble and quick around a short track and will benefit from a smaller turbo that will spool fast and make instant boost from 3000 to 6500, this makes more average horsepower going trough the gears than a fat turbo.
Consider the cost and complexity of a compound setup an overkill for speed purposes.
More rotating mass, higher gravity center from the high placed extra weight.
Two compressor, twice the chance of one failing, not to mention that the first one will kill the second then the engine (ok the IC will hold the bigger debris).
Beside that, the Yaris is a very small engine and pulling horsepower from the crank is worth a thread by itself, using power that have been produced trough the small pistons, rods, crank to spin a SC, while the turbo is there and getting the free exhaust energy is a big no-no to me, I feel that these economically engineered parts are the weak link more than the induction capacity, I'd rather want to have this power available to the wheels.
If one is not afraid of complexity, a SC clutch system could be done to desactivate the SC when the turbo is spooled up, along with the SC bypass valve...and it's not gonna win the race :iono:
Why not putting that money on the suspension, tires, brakes where it will definitely gain overall performance.
My two cents :biggrin:

very well put sir.

[Split]

since a ball bearing is still more efficient pound per pound of boost, i really dont see any point of twin charging.. why not just run a twin balling bearing turbo setup? you can make a pretty linear powerband out of them. my buddy's supra is pretty linear. Also, the new 997TT with VTGs is pretty awesome.

[RagnaCaT]

I got a mag at home from a AE92 Twin Charged 4AGE from Australia I think I'll see if I can find it I can remeber that it said that when it went to higher rpms charger is bypassed and turbo takes over.

[Split]

i read jeremy clarkson's review of the twin charged golf gt and he said its one of the worst cars he's ever driven. twin ball bearing turbos ftw!