When to switch to synthetic oil?

[jay]

Looking ahead, I will be hitting my first oil change in Apr (6 mos will have passed, and I am projected to hit 8000km at that point). Although I understand that conventional oil is adequate - I'd like to do a bit better, and switch over to synthetic sooner than later.

There seems to be a wide range of suggestions as to when it is appropriate to make the switch. I have read that it is advisable to let the engine "break in" before switching (unless you have a high-end car manufactured in such a way where it comes w/synthetic straight from the factory). Then there are stories of ppl switching over at < 4000km.

My question is whether anyone thinks that moving over to synthetic after 6 mos/8000km is optimum or even appropriate. While I have heard of Toyota apparently advising 10000km in other models' manuals, have found no mention of synthetic oil in either the Yaris Owner's Manual or Supplement :confused: .

I asked Toyota Canada about this, and they indicated that this question (and any other technical matter) should be taken to the dealer. My dealer has advised 16000km, which seems high to me.

Is a whole winter of cold(er) running & starts (I use the block heater when setting out in the morning, no such luck when leaving work) not enough already to "run in" the engine?

Curious to hear of some other thoughts.

[yariman]

With most modern engines the days of having to break in with conventional oil are gone and you can switch to synthetic at any time. However I would do as the dealer has advised to avoid any possible warranty issues.

[Schmingie]

Good Morning.

Having been in the engine rebuilding and building business and now working for Toyota, here is what I know.

Rings are partially made of chrome, a very hard substance. Chrome-moly rings take approx. 12-15000 km to seat in properly. Using synthetic too early causes the vehicle to be an oil burner, which the dealer may try to blame on you and not repair under warranty. The recommended 16000 km - is probably not a bad number just to be on the safe side.

This is just a brief discription to your question, if there is anything else you would like to know specifically, feel free to ask.


Respectfully,

S.

[yariman]

As I suggested do as your dealer advises to cover your a--. I also do a lot of engine work. Most late model engines use a hardened ring such as chrome moly ( no time to go into why ) A lot of new performance vehicles such as mercedes, porsche, viper, cobra all come from the factory with synthetic oil. I personally would keep the conventional in for 500 to 3000 KM to catch all the wear in materials from the engine, then switch to synthetic. This subject will remain controversial for some time with different opinions such as Schminqie's and mine and others. This is what makes these forums so interesting and helpful.

[Schmingie]

As long as we can agree to dissagree everything is great. What is wonderful as yariman says is that you will get lots of opinions. Sorting through them all is then left up to the poster asking the question.

Thanks for this great forum btw..... great :respekt: for yariman

S.

[echo_hrs]

If you plan on keeping your Yaris for 400,000 kms, then I could see it being worth the extra expense, but every Toyota I've owned have had the cleanest engines I've ever seen, if regularly maintained, barely turning the oil dark honey colour after 6000kms, even 10 year old ones...

Oh the controversy!:wink:

[why?]

lol.

Synthetic cn't hurt if you can afford it. I do agree that using normal oil for the first few oil changes prolly cannot be a bad thing.

[jay]

Had no idea that this topic could be controversial... oops :wink:

But seriously, some good ideas have been put forth here. I can agree that you won't really hurt anything in waiting 16000km (which nicely coincides with my projected 2nd oil change).

I don't mean to cast doubt on what my dealer advised (it's not like I know more than they do); it just seemed to be a number on the far end of the scale, esp. considering stories of earlier changeovers and modern manufacturing :iono:

I guess I'm a little anxious to try the synthetic, for its reputed benefits. Anything I can do that will make the engine last longer, run cleaner & more efficiently - I'm willing to consider.

To echo_hrs & why?, synthetic is more $, but it didn't seem outrageous when I checked (or did I miss something?) I'd be looking at whatever is cheapest/on sale at Canadian Tire/Walmart/Zellers etc, which is in the $20/jug range. That's ~$10 more than the conventional stuff. The labour component of course is the same for both.

~$20 more per year (in my case; I'm on pace to run 16000km for the year) doesn't seem that bad, if there are tangible benefits in return.

To yariman & Schmingie, if you guys are so inclinded to further elaborate (as expert opinions), I'm sure there's lots of curious ppl here who would listen (me included).

[yariman]

Whad a ya say Schminqie? Personally I think this one has been covered enough. And BTW lots of :respekt: back at ya!. Jay I think the safest thing to do if you have already talked to your dealer is to do as they advised. Schminqie works for Toyota and concurs with the 16000km point. You don't want to be stuck in a battle with Toyota over waiting a year or whatever to switch to synthetic oil.

[Schmingie]

I say nutinnnn... - hehe - this topic could be worked to death. I think Jay has the information to make an informed choice at this point.


Now lets hear it for them Calgary Flames - lol :thumbup:

[jay]

Cool. I will play it safe and wait till the 2nd change to switch over.

Thanks for the help (much appreciated).

[GabL]

I heard ppl say it is nice to change the oil around 2000km or so, before waiting for the first 6000km oil change to clean up all dirts from the new engine. Is that good or not? :confused:

[yariman]

In my opinion that is a good plan:thumbsup:

[GabL]

That's good to hear! :headbang:

As I did that to my car! :burnrubber:

[p2filz]

oh no not htis again, u have 106 hp YOU DO NOT NEED SYNTHETIC its a waste of money... man ppl on the scion life got burned for this topic on the xb dont start up the fire, do what u want but its a waste to use synthetic and from what ive heard its worse to use it if the engine doesnt rev high because its a thicker formula whatever... this is what happens when ppl think bigger is better. u have an econocar why do u need sport oil for a cheap car! WHY!?

[Ziv]

oh no not htis again, u have 106 hp YOU DO NOT NEED SYNTHETIC its a waste of money... man ppl on the scion life got burned for this topic on the xb dont start up the fire, do what u want but its a waste to use synthetic and from what ive heard its worse to use it if the engine doesnt rev high because its a thicker formula whatever... this is what happens when ppl think bigger is better. u have an econocar why do u need sport oil for a cheap car! WHY!?

ha ha, I like the way you think. :thumbup:

[p2filz]

im just sayin those races against tcs will be brutal even prius' will be kickin the ass of a yaris maybe a stickshift yaris revved to 6000 rpm's may beat the prius but itll be close... my mom has a prius and i gotta say it doesnt seem to be a sportcar but if u hit the gas 325 lb-ft or torque will relly move you cuz the electric motor has alot of that! any way synthetic wont help go with the regular 10-w30 or 5-w15 whatever it is its asking for dont waste the money homie take it from me you wont win races and synthetic only reduces mpg due to the thicker formula be happy rub in peoples faces that you get 40 mpg* highway! good day

[yariman]

Thicker formula?? Synthetic oils actually have a lower pour point than petroleum oils which means that it flows much more easily to all the cracks and crannys. Synthetics reduce friction and drag giving better fuel economy, they dont break down like petroleum products, they run cooler and on and on. It is better oil for any application. Petroleum oils are fine provided that you change the oil regularly, but synthetics are better.

[jcove]

im just sayin those races against tcs will be brutal even prius' will be kickin the ass of a yaris maybe a stickshift yaris revved to 6000 rpm's may beat the prius but itll be close... my mom has a prius and i gotta say it doesnt seem to be a sportcar but if u hit the gas 325 lb-ft or torque will relly move you cuz the electric motor has alot of that! any way synthetic wont help go with the regular 10-w30 or 5-w15 whatever it is its asking for dont waste the money homie take it from me you wont win races and synthetic only reduces mpg due to the thicker formula be happy rub in peoples faces that you get 40 mpg* highway! good day

First, synthetic increases you MPG because it flows better. It is not thicker. Second, the Prius is way heavier than the Yaris. So I don't think it would be much better off the line, but I'd like to see it anyway. Always up for a good race even if I loose. :biggrin: :thumbsup:

[p2filz]

like i said im not sure i heard it was thicker... all synthetic does is raise the temp at which it starts breaking down reg oil i think starts to break down at about 210* F i think the synthetic goes at 230-245*F or something... again im not an oil scientist im just saying synthetic doesnt really help out a yaris all that much.

[jay]

Whoa - I guess this really can be a heated topic :smile:

I don't think it was anyone's intention here to suggest that synthetic oil is a requirement. I think everyone can agree that conventional oil is adequate.

However, my understanding re: synthetic is similar to what yariman posted (a "better oil for any application"). Of course, it may very well be that the greatest return to be had from synthetic is in racing/extreme applications. In everyday usage, the benefit may not be quite as significant, but I would think that it's still there.

Here's where I'm coming from. I would like to do a bit better than just "adequate" for my Yaris. The factors for me are:

- The car has been purchased (i.e. not leased), and I intend to keep it for 5-10 years
- I want a clean, efficient, and low emissions engine
- I live in a climate of harsh winters, and want to reduce the negative effects of cold starts
- I only drive enough to warrant 2 oil changes per year

The incremental cost for me to go synthetic is $CAN20/year. Assuming a small but measurable improvement, I think that's OK.

That's the way I see it. Please correct me if I'm missing something and this is a bad judgement. Cheers :smile:

[jcove]

Whoa - I guess this really can be a heated topic :smile:

I don't think it was anyone's intention here to suggest that synthetic oil is a requirement. I think everyone can agree that conventional oil is adequate.

However, my understanding re: synthetic is similar to what yariman posted (a "better oil for any application"). Of course, it may very well be that the greatest return to be had from synthetic is in racing/extreme applications. In everyday usage, the benefit may not be quite as significant, but I would think that it's still there.

Here's where I'm coming from. I would like to do a bit better than just "adequate" for my Yaris. The factors for me are:

- The car has been purchased (i.e. not leased), and I intend to keep it for 5-10 years
- I want a clean, efficient, and low emissions engine
- I live in a climate of harsh winters, and want to reduce the negative effects of cold starts
- I only drive enough to warrant 2 oil changes per year

The incremental cost for me to go synthetic is $CAN20/year. Assuming a small but measurable improvement, I think that's OK.

That's the way I see it. Please correct me if I'm missing something and this is a bad judgement. Cheers :smile:


I agree with your decision, that's the way I'm going when it comes time. I have three or four free oil changes from my dealer, so I'll wait until after those are done.

Regarding this being a heated topic, I guess I should watch how I say things. I'm not trying to start any problems. I'm not an engineer or anything, but I've been in the automotive manufacturing industry for a few years and I'm a car fanatic. I know from experiance that Synthetic oil use in Canada makes perfect sense, as the cars start easier in colder weather, it flows better during start up to protect the engine faster and I've experianced significant mileage gains. I've never dyno tested my cars, but it feels like there's more power, I'm guessing because of the lowered friction. It's all just personal preference. I know for sure that it won't void a warranty, so that should be enough right there to tell you there is no down side, at least that I'm aware of.

Oil lasts longer - check (reasonably speaking, according to most OEM engine manufacturers and engine rebuilders, Synthetic should be changed at about 5,000 km under stop and go traffic which most of us fall into due to moisture and dirt that can build up in the oil)
Less friction in engine - check
Better MPG/KPL(kilometers per litre for those of us in Canada) - Check

It's all good to me!!

[jcove]

First, synthetic increases you MPG because it flows better. It is not thicker. Second, the Prius is way heavier than the Yaris. So I don't think it would be much better off the line, but I'd like to see it anyway. Always up for a good race even if I loose. :biggrin: :thumbsup:

The Prius comment was made in fun, not to offend. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[jay]

Nah, I don't think you need to apologize jcove. There was nothing rude or presumptuous said in your posts. My comment was more along the lines of me (as a neophyte) not realizing that the amount of polarization this topic can generate. It was just an honest question, as I couldn't find a consistent answer.

At any rate - considering all the info at hand, I'm pretty comfortable with the plan to delay switching & play it safe.

p2filz, I appreciate the input, but all my research about synthetic oil performance unanimously leads to the same conclusion as to what others have said here (i.e. syn is a better all-round lubricant for a car's engine). Its only disadvantage is a higher price.

Anyways, I get the sense that we agree to disagree. That's cool with me.

[swng]

If synthetic oil can increase fuel economy and offer better protection to the engine, it will pay for itself in the long run. I will discuss with the service manager about changing to synthetic oil when an oil change is due. Thanks guys for the information. Great forum!

[AutoTech1]

There is no harm in using synthetic oil... Infact, it could be a very good thing. I found a link so I don't have to explain it. It's very short, but it gets the point across that others were trying to explain:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/coolfj40/difbetconand.html

[AutoTech1]

First, synthetic increases you MPG because it flows better. It is not thicker. Second, the Prius is way heavier than the Yaris. So I don't think it would be much better off the line, but I'd like to see it anyway. Always up for a good race even if I loose. :biggrin: :thumbsup:

Good points.:wink:

[p2filz]

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1574&highlight=synthetic+motor+oil
this is where that heated conversation was... they put up a better fight than me

[eight_heads]

well personally i will be switching to Mobil1 full-synth at between 10,000 and 12,000 miles... i've been moding and building import motors(specifically honda/toyota) for a while now and seeing what motors tend to look like after years of cheap oil being run through them i am a true believer in full synthetic oils... i feel that the added cost of full syth is worth it in the long run both in life of the engine and fuel economy... i know alot of people just do the least they can, but i always do the best i can when it comes to take care of my things... i was one of those kids that always saved the boxes my toys came in incase i needed them :p .... anyway, that's what i will be doing and i usually do my oil changes between 3k and 4k miles... but hey, thats just me... what i'm more worried about is what is the best filter in the business when it comes to toyotas?

[Master2192]

The biggest benefit IMO to using Synthetic is the longer oil change intervals. On the Nasioc Forums where I spend most of my time, there is a WRX using Mobile 1 Extended mileage. Doing oil changes at 8000 miles with oil analysis and BlackStone Labs was asking him to go even longer with the oil as it was still coming back in very good condition. I don't remember what filter he was using though. If you want to go that long on oil, make sure the filter is very good and possibly oversized.

[Tankota]

Yikes.. I always love Synth oil debates on the internet.. lol..

I run Amsoil synth in my Tacoma, and only change it about twice a year (about 16k) This is backed up with oil analysis. My Tacoma is a good use for synth, as is sees a lot of harsh use and condtions..

For those that are going to change your oil every 4k-5k, don't bother with synth, you won't see any real benifit vrs the cost. A full real Synth can give you 1-2 mpg depending on the engine, but you will spend more than that on the oil if you change it that often, and the oil will still be clean enough changing it that often you won't have to worry about any wear or breakdown of the oil.

Synth best uses are extended oil change intervals (only Mobil 1 extended and Amsoil series 2000 can be used for this) and for cold weather - True synths still flow at -50C, which is a great help when starting your engines in winter. Synths also perform well under high loads and temps, something that isn't a real issue with the Yaris.. :biggrin:

The best thing you can do is make sure you use a quailty oil filter, not some cheap no-name brand... Good filters use synthtic fibers, which they can exactly control the size of the filtering. Again, Mobil 1 filters and Amsoil filters were highly rated. You can do more good for your engine by spending a bit more on a good filter than on the oil. There's even a dual bypass filter setup, that uses a normal full flow filter, and then a second filter that only filters a bit each pass, but can then filter the oil down to 1 micron or less.. Then you have REALY clean oil... again might be a bit much on the Yaris.

This also brings up the breakin myth with the metal particals.. all those should be caught by the filter, and not flowing around in the engine anyways. It would make more sense to change the filter at 1000 miles than the oil, but it doesn't hurt to do both. I change mine at the first 1500 miles, then switch to synth at 6000..

[07WYarisRS]

Another Amsoil user here

I changed mine at 5000km after a hard break in. After all you can't break in rings driving like a pansy....

I run the TRO 2000 0W-30 and change it every 6 months or so. usually in the spring and fall (before the cold and after the cold LOL)

Not only does it provide more HP, better MPG but your engine last longer and maintains it's performance for a VERY VERY long time.
Best of all you save a LOT of $$$

using my truck as an example
I drove it 3 years and put on 100,000km

dealer recommended 5000km oil changes
that's 20 oil changes over 3 years
at $22 per oil change thats $440

With amsoil I change it every 6 months = 6 oil changes @$60
That's $360

If I changed it at Amsoil recommened interval of 1 year = $180

$180 vs $440.....

[paultyler_82]

P2, Synthetic is not heavier simply because it's synthetic, a 5W30 fossil oil and 5W30 Synthetic are the same viscosity. Further, synthetics are capable of withstanding longer oil change intervals, more high rev driving, and more heat before breakdown occurs, this is actually good in any car, doesn't really matter what your driving habits are. Another thing to consider is that most synthetic manufacturers tend to focus on Additive technologies, since most pure synthetics are just Polyalpha-olefin (PAO) base stocks purchased from companies such as Mobil Chemical co. Royal Purple, for instance, places a lot of pride in their proprietary additive blend, and Amsoil places a lot of pride in their oils which can actually promote better MPG. By the way, when I refer to Synthetics, I am refering to Group IV and V synths like Royal, Amsoil, and Red Line. Mobil 1 and Penzoil's Synthetics are Group II and III synthetics... meaning, they are NOT full synthetic as is stated on the bottle, rather they are a blend of PAO base stock and Hydro-cracked mineral oil base stock. I don't really care for that stuff, because it's cheap for Mobil and Penzoil to make and overpriced because it's "Full Synthetic".

[07WYarisRS]

Well said paultyler_82

The difference in viscosity between mineral oils and synthetic lubricatns is they are more stable and have a MUCH wider rang then their mineral oil counter part.

As an example
Q-state peak motor oil (conventional)
5w-30
W- pour point of -30 oC
flash point of 218 o C

Amsoil ASL 5W-30
pour point -50oC
flash point 228 oC

Amsoil TRO 20w-50
pour point -36o C (even though its a 20w)
flash point of 234 o C

The other big difference is stnthetics are more stable over a LOT longer time. With conventional oil as it breaks down the oils thicken and thing and change viscosity quickly. Group IV and V synthetic don't break down nearly as quickly and retain their viscosity much longer.

Last used mineral oils contain corrosive acids that damage internal parts
just one more reason they need to be changed more often or before parking/storing an engine for month or two

[tds12]

Synthetic oil has a better coeffecient of friction. It doesn't matter what type of engine you have. Small cars will benefit as any other car.

[Violin]

The word from Toyota: http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4010

Synthetic oil may be used if it meets all specifications provided in your Owner’s Manual. Toyota is currently recommending API1 grade SL “energy-conserving” or ILSAC2 multigrade petroleum-based engine oil3 for our vehicles. (The “SL” designation supersedes previous categories such as “SJ” and “SH" and thus can be used in vehicles requiring SJ or SH motor oils.) In moderate climates, this oil should have a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) viscosity rating of 5W-30*.
If you decide to use synthetic oil for the engine, it is best not to switch until the first scheduled oil change. Synthetic oil should meet the specifications provided in your Owner's Manual. If synthetic oil is used, Toyota recommends that you continue to observe the oil change intervals laid forth in the Scheduled Maintenance Guide. Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil.

While synthetic oil may offer some benefits, in our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, petroleum-based motor oil has provided excellent service at a reasonable cost. All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with petroleum-based engine oil.

The Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any damage to the engine resulting from the use of engine oil that is defective or that which does not meet the specifications provided in your Owner's Manual, regardless of whether the oil is natural or synthetic.

[Violin]

Me? - I switched to Mobil One at my first oil change.

[jmew0ng]

I'm planning on switching myself... after driving my old echo, I changed the oil ever 3,000 miles and it was starting to look a tad bit dark :| But I take it having nice good oil and changing it while it looks only a little darker is better than changing it out when it turns dark red/orange :\

[paultyler_82]

Me? - I switched to Mobil One at my first oil change.

Again, I'm going to make my disclaimer that Mobil One, despite the marketing hype, is not a Full Synthetic, but rather a synthetic blend using hydrocracked mineral oil base.

[Driver]

:confused: This page should help with synthetic vs petroleum oils. :confused:

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

[Driver]

Another synthetic vs. petroleum oil page.

http://www.americanautoquote.com/car_finance/article1140.htm

[wwwh355]

HI all.
It is quiet weird to me that ppl here are not using synthetic.
I will guess it must be because of the weather here.
Most ppl in my country(TAIWAN) uses synthetic oil.
maybe it is because the humidity is so high and air polution is so bad in TAIWAN.
Anyway, I will get my yaris 3 days later. took me 2 wks to wait.
I will chose just to follow the manual.
BTW, Toyota seems always have the longest oil-changing period.
Somehow they think their engine dont "torture" the oil at all?

[mikeukrainetz]

Just got back from my second oil change on my Yaris. I specifically asked the guy what he thought about the whole regular / synthetic oil changes. He had recently worked at mazda and said they recommended NOT using synthetic early in the engines life. The reason as stated earlier was engine break-in and synthetic not allowing the rings proper break in period. Rings are rings, whether now or in 1970, the same conditions apply. I opted out of the synthetic until at least the next oil change. I dont do the kind of driving that warrants synthetics benefits so I may not change at all considering the cost. If I ever boost the engine I may think differently.

[rstb88]

its not just sports car that come with syn as standard. my moms 04 taurus came with 5w20 syn from the factory, even says it on the cap. i changed the oil at 5000miles and switched to synthetic oil.

[sroberts]

After reading all the responses I am still not sure if I should switch to a full synthetic or not. hmmmm.... :iono:

[07WYarisRS]

After reading all the responses I am still not sure if I should switch to a full synthetic or not. hmmmm.... :iono:

Why not?
I can't hurt anything

The only down side is the cost be even then you can save a lot of $$$ using synthetics because of the extended drain intervels.

The pro's are better performance
better mileage
longer engine life
prolonged engine performance due to less by product and carbon
save $$$ with oil costs over the life of your car

Keep in mind if you want a full synthetic you only have a couple to decide from. Amsoil, Redline, Royal purple are about the top 3
Mobil 1, syntec, Motul and most big brand manes synthetic are Group III synthetics (hydrocracked mineral oil) Still far better then conventional oil but do require more frequent oil changes.

I use amsoil and change my oil/filter every 6 months (15,000-20,000km) even though I know it's good for only 1 oil change a year or 35,000 miles.

[SDsurfrider]

Im not sure how the syn would make a difference in how the rings seat themselves. Does anyone have good information on the toyota(denso?) filter compared to the TRD filter?

[07WYarisRS]

Im not sure how the syn would make a difference in how the rings seat themselves. Does anyone have good information on the toyota(denso?) filter compared to the TRD filter?

It's simple really, heat and friction are what allow rings to seat quickly and properly.
Reduce the heat and friction and you slow down how quickly your rings seat.
The last thing any engine should have is a slow easy break in.

check out this thread
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

It has all the information on why engine builders like myself and thousands of racers and mechanics and even oil companies like redline, Amsoil etc do not recommend using a group IV-V oil for break in.

[nsmitchell]

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1574&highlight=synthetic+motor+oil
this is where that heated conversation was... they put up a better fight than me

That "nb" guy on Scionlife sounds like a real winner! He sounds like he's been around since Roman horse and chariot days. I also like how he kept misspelling the word genius - "genious". That pretty much makes this guy a blowhard/dumbass.:biggrin: Every Scion owner is a "young whippersnapper" and should never question the "Great and Powerful Oz"!

[keesue]

As to drain intervals: oil analysis is the only way way to determine the condition of engine oil and when to change. It provides the contents of the oil; i.e, the particulates and amounts that are suspended in the oil after use. Each engine type produces a varying amount of particulates - some more than others - hence the varying oil drain intervals by model, engine and manufacturer. As a point of fact, each manufacturer performs engine oil analysis during their prototype testing period and use this as the basis for the oil change interval recommendations. Unless otherwise stated, they use mineral-based oils in these tests.

As to extended drain intervals: true synthetics, and to a lesser degree hybrid synthetics, have been proven by oil analysis to extend suspension intervals to oil change ratios which can support longer drain intervals. Long haul trucking companies use this as cost savings strategy but back it up by regular oil analysis. The challenge in the absence of oil analysis is 'how long is long enough?' Real-world experience such as those provided here by the Yaris constituency are good indicators with the caveat of risk.

As to MPG and HP gains: the only true test is the dyno. The dyno test is absolute proof of ANY performance gain from ANY modification. Some have experienced real-world gains using synthetics - others have not - as indicated in the varying responses. It may be noteworthy in the buying decision whether oil manufacturers posts dyno test results to prove the performance gains they claim in their ads if they claim this as the reason for using their product. Real-world experience is a good indicator but neither absolute nor universal. Actually, any "add this and you get that" should be backed up by dyno testing. THE DYNO RULES.

What I have proffered herein is not to discount real-world experiences; rather, to lend scientific rigor to the proof. It is best to follow the manufacturers drain interval recommendation using mineral-based oils as they performed the tests to support their recommendation. Given the cost differential of true synthetics, the return on investment is in the extended drain intervals and improvement in MPG/HP. The risk factor notwithtanding - one takes one's chances extending oil change intervals - there is an allure to using synthetics, supported by the real-world experiences by those who use them. (For what its worth, my personal position is to use precisely what the manufacturer recommends as they have done the testing to back their recommendation).

I hope this helps. Man, I sure love this Yaris!!!! It is 'da bomb'!!!

[jdomville]

When you take any TOYOTA to the dealer for service you will get the same oil as was in the car at the factory. No matter what it sayes on the can (Toyota Oil) it is MOBILE One.
So "Changing to Mobile One" is no big deal. The car had it in it originally and still does unless you foolishly swiitched to something else.
Keeping Mobile One in the vehicle is certainly in step with the warentee besides being the best thing you can do for the long life of the engine. Make sure the filter has a check valve built in it.

[nsmitchell]

When you take any TOYOTA to the dealer for service you will get the same oil as was in the car at the factory. No matter what it sayes on the can (Toyota Oil) it is MOBILE One.
So "Changing to Mobile One" is no big deal. The car had it in it originally and still does unless you foolishly swiitched to something else.
Keeping Mobile One in the vehicle is certainly in step with the warentee besides being the best thing you can do for the long life of the engine. Make sure the filter has a check valve built in it.
So you are saying that Toyota uses Mobil-1 for all their oil changes?! That is great news, but how do you know this to be true? Mobil-1 is soooo much more expensive than conventional oils, but it could be the secret behind Toyota's legendary engine longevity. Hmmm. Please show me some proof. Thanks!:biggrin:

[nsmitchell]

Although I just found this interesting news article...
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=basicIndustries&storyID=nN30322117&imageid=&cap=&from=business

[dansides]

my dealer uses 5w30 Qstate synblend with a toyota filter free for as long as i own the car sports city dallas:rolleyes:

[cdydjded]

when to go synthetic? Whenever you want. I did @ 5200 miles. opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. :thumbup:

[hystria]

As to drain intervals: oil analysis is the only way way to determine the condition of engine oil and when to change. It provides the contents of the oil; i.e, the particulates and amounts that are suspended in the oil after use. Each engine type produces a varying amount of particulates - some more than others - hence the varying oil drain intervals by model, engine and manufacturer. As a point of fact, each manufacturer performs engine oil analysis during their prototype testing period and use this as the basis for the oil change interval recommendations. Unless otherwise stated, they use mineral-based oils in these tests.

As to extended drain intervals: true synthetics, and to a lesser degree hybrid synthetics, have been proven by oil analysis to extend suspension intervals to oil change ratios which can support longer drain intervals. Long haul trucking companies use this as cost savings strategy but back it up by regular oil analysis. The challenge in the absence of oil analysis is 'how long is long enough?' Real-world experience such as those provided here by the Yaris constituency are good indicators with the caveat of risk.

As to MPG and HP gains: the only true test is the dyno. The dyno test is absolute proof of ANY performance gain from ANY modification. Some have experienced real-world gains using synthetics - others have not - as indicated in the varying responses. It may be noteworthy in the buying decision whether oil manufacturers posts dyno test results to prove the performance gains they claim in their ads if they claim this as the reason for using their product. Real-world experience is a good indicator but neither absolute nor universal. Actually, any "add this and you get that" should be backed up by dyno testing. THE DYNO RULES.

What I have proffered herein is not to discount real-world experiences; rather, to lend scientific rigor to the proof. It is best to follow the manufacturers drain interval recommendation using mineral-based oils as they performed the tests to support their recommendation. Given the cost differential of true synthetics, the return on investment is in the extended drain intervals and improvement in MPG/HP. The risk factor notwithtanding - one takes one's chances extending oil change intervals - there is an allure to using synthetics, supported by the real-world experiences by those who use them. (For what its worth, my personal position is to use precisely what the manufacturer recommends as they have done the testing to back their recommendation).

I hope this helps. Man, I sure love this Yaris!!!! It is 'da bomb'!!!


:thumbsup: for this post

People must understand this: Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec ARE NOT synthetic oils! There is no benefit to use those two oils, unless you need a better start-up on cold mornings. Synthetic oils that allow for extended oil change intervals, are Mobil 1 Extended Performance (although still not a 100% real synthetic oil), RedLine, Motul, Amsoil, etc.

[jonr0613]

hey guys what do you think of castrol oil???

[eTiMaGo]

when to go synthetic? Whenever you want. I did @ 5200 miles. opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. :thumbup:

belly buttons... that's a much milder version of that expression than I'm used to hearing :biggrin:

[hystria]

Castrol GTX is a very fine mineral oil - to be changed every 6 months. The perfect choice for regular oil change intervals

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Although I just found this interesting news article...
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=basicIndustries&storyID=nN30322117&imageid=&cap=&from=business

yeah, my dad received something in the mail about that.

[tekmoe]

switched my tranny to redline 75w90 @ 800 miles. switched my engine to amsoil 5w30 @ 3200 miles. my car loves me.

[CASTREX]

switched my tranny to redline 75w90 @ 800 miles. switched my engine to amsoil 5w30 @ 3200 miles. my car loves me.

"your car loves you" meaning you feel a difference? is there a noticeable improvement over OEM juice? Give some details.

[drg]

Back in 83 or 84, I forget exactly which right now, I bought two new bottom end Hondas with solid lifter valve trains that, because of component wear, required periodic adjustment . The specs on the valves were .005 + or - .002. At the first oil change I went in and ever so precisely set the valves at .005 and put synthetic in one and petroleum base in the other. I then checked the valves at each synthetic oil change of 10,000 miles and every other petroleum based oil change of 5,000 miles. The petroleum based reached or exceeded .007 at 65,000 and the synthetic reached it at 155,000. I've run synthetics at the first oil change in every new car since, I'd guess that would be ten or twelve including three Toyotas, and none of them have been oil burners and I have ran all of them more than 250,000 miles before trading.

[tekmoe]

"your car loves you" meaning you feel a difference? is there a noticeable improvement over OEM juice? Give some details.

my car loves me as in the engine and tranny love synthetic oil over dino oil. and yes, that's a fact! :thumbsup:

[magoo_lc1]

I have read on here i beleive that some amsoil guys go over 20k before a change? If so do you change the filter out in there somewhere? I have used mobil 1 succesfully for years. I know its not the same as amsoil but i always changed it and the filter every 3k regardless. I was just wondering about filter change on such a long interval.

["G"]

oh no not htis again, u have 106 hp YOU DO NOT NEED SYNTHETIC its a waste of money... man ppl on the scion life got burned for this topic on the xb dont start up the fire, do what u want but its a waste to use synthetic and from what ive heard its worse to use it if the engine doesnt rev high because its a thicker formula whatever... this is what happens when ppl think bigger is better. u have an econocar why do u need sport oil for a cheap car! WHY!?

This is the most retarded post i have ever read on the internet.