Yaris Intake Manifold

[richardholdener]

Just wanted to check back in a let the community know that the Yaris intake is still on. I have been using my Yaris to help get the low-buck turbo kit done and we had good success running at 4-5 psi level (good power and no CELs). Unfortunately we lost a rod while running higher boost levels and that leaves me with no motor to develope the intake manifold-we have removed the damaged motor and are doing a forged rod and psiton combo (hopefully with Garm's assistance). I need a Yaris to complete the production version of the intake to make it available for sale. Whoever suplies the car (for 7-10 days) will receive a free intake (in So Cal-Vegas Area). Let me know if there is interest.

[Yoda]

i would make you use mine but i live way in florida and its my dd

[pinoypizzaboy]

i will volunteer i live in vegas but this car is my dd.. hmm let me think this over. :)

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

damm east coast misses out AGAIN......

[PetersRedYaris]

i will volunteer i live in vegas but this car is my dd.. hmm let me think this over. :)

Hitch a ride for a week, this is a $700 free part...

[pinoypizzaboy]

Hitch a ride for a week, this is a $700 free part...

i know right i use this car to deliver pizzas. 1 week without it i lose 700 in tips and pay. hmm decisions :confused:

[Zefoxe]

use a bike :D

ricky bobby style

[CASTREX]

Here we go again..... :biggrin:

[cali yaris]

I believe the test car will actually be needed in Palmdale, CA.

[richardholdener]

Maybe it would be best to use Cali's car so he can then report to the members about performance. fitment etc...We will perform a back-to-bac test on the intake both on turbo and NA application. Production run of 10 intakes will be done by end of NOV.

[CASTREX]

So what happened with the xD intake?

Any hopes that one will be seeing the light of day?

I knew of a few people interested but due to your long and quite absence we totally forgot about it... :frown:

Please post here if the possiblity of a group buy comes up.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9835

[Malaya1221]

my car is available if you still need one!:smile:

[bdc87]

Good to see you back, I've been waiting patiently for this manifold. I live in Northern California and which I could help but, I'm sure theres plenty Yaris in the Vegas to Socal area that will help you out. If you could since we lost information from the hack post the graphs and pics it would be appreciated. Also is there anything anybody needs to do to get in on the first 10 or is it first come first serve.

[richardholdener]

Xd intake will see production if we have sufficient interest. I have the Xd ready to do the production piece, but we need to have at least 10 Xd owners wiling to purchase it before we can justify a production run. We just don't have a feel fo rthe Xd market-though the motor is a really good one-wish I had it in my yaris.

So what happened with the xD intake?

Any hopes that one will be seeing the light of day?

I knew of a few people interested but due to your long and quite absence we totally forgot about it... :frown:

Please post here if the possiblity of a group buy comes up.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9835

[richardholdener]

If you'd like to get some sort of official list generated on the site-that might be helpful.

Good to see you back, I've been waiting patiently for this manifold. I live in Northern California and which I could help but, I'm sure theres plenty Yaris in the Vegas to Socal area that will help you out. If you could since we lost information from the hack post the graphs and pics it would be appreciated. Also is there anything anybody needs to do to get in on the first 10 or is it first come first serve.

[Black Yaris]

anything going on for the Toaster?

[CASTREX]

Xd intake will see production if we have sufficient interest. I have the Xd ready to do the production piece, but we need to have at least 10 Xd owners wiling to purchase it before we can justify a production run. We just don't have a feel fo rthe Xd market-though the motor is a really good one-wish I had it in my yaris.

PM sent :wink:

[richardholdener]

Is this a request for the early Xb-we can just need 10 Xb owners to step up.

anything going on for the Toaster?

[Black Yaris]

Nice... I am reposting this on Scion Life!

[tk-421]

Good to know this project is still alive! Hopefully me and my wallet will still be alive by the time this goes into production. :laugh:

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

since the stuff got deleted whats the estimated cost of this ?

[richardholdener]

Here is the dyno grap of the stock vs new intake that was removed previously.

[cali yaris]

Castrex, the xD one is also for the Yaris TS guys, yes?

[PETERPOOP]

13 whp increase?

[bdc87]

13 whp increase? I believe so and something like 25 with a full exhaust, but don't quote me on that.

[ztrack157]

If I remember correctly he hit 120whp with no cats and 2 inch back.

[PETERPOOP]

can this work with the 2500$ turbo kit that is coming out? or is it one or the other.

[CASTREX]

Castrex, the xD one is also for the Yaris TS guys, yes?

Yeap....

XD, Yaris TS, 2009 Corolla/Matrix, Auris..........

All share the new 2ZR-FE engine.

[Nexus1155]

can this work with the 2500$ turbo kit that is coming out? or is it one or the other

I think he is designing them both on the same car, so assumingly so...

[cleong]

Does it require a different engine management? Or will it run on the stock ECU?

[ChinoCharles]

Subscribed.

[Thirty-Nine]

Glad to see you back, Richard.

[cali yaris]

I believe the intake manifold will run on the stock ECU. It's not forced induction, just BETTER induction :biggrin:

And, since it's on the cold side, it would certainly work alongside a turbo application.. :drool:

[cleong]

I'm just a bit doubtful if the stock ECU will be able to handle the better induction without throwing a code. It seems to have quite tight operating parameters which it considers "normal".

Will an aftermarket air filter be necessary, or can you just bolt the stock airbox back in?

Lots of questions but that's because I'm interested in the product. 10whp is too good a gain to turn down if it is plug and play.

[CASTREX]

I'm just a bit doubtful if the stock ECU will be able to handle the better induction without throwing a code. It seems to have quite tight operating parameters which it considers "normal".

Will an aftermarket air filter be necessary, or can you just bolt the stock airbox back in?

Lots of questions but that's because I'm interested in the product. 10whp is too good a gain to turn down if it is plug and play.

If the TB remains in the same position which it think it does you should be able to use the stock airbox.... BUT,, why would you do that? In order to achive the full benefits of an Intake manifold the car will require a performance Intake and Exhaust. Other wise what would be the point to invest on the Intake Mani???

[kou]

:drool:ready and waiting.just wish there was a little more in the 4-5k range.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

since the stuff got deleted whats the estimated cost of this ?

:iono:

[kou]

i think something like $700,but i hope less.

[bzinn 1]

That will sell very well for xD owners.......perhaps a caravan down from the NW with all of our owners would help production......LOL......

Patiently waiting for intake.....the 1.5 needs something liek this badly.

[cali yaris]

I'm just a bit doubtful if the stock ECU will be able to handle the better induction without throwing a code. It seems to have quite tight operating parameters which it considers "normal".


The prototype was tested and produced the existing dyno chart. Richard has not mentioned any CEL's with the prototype intake manifold. I'm sure he will confirm this one way or another.

[whooppee777]

going supercharged. i wont be needing this anymore. still hope all works ouyt well though

[KCALB SIRAY]

I just don't see any reason for the intake to be more than a few hundred dollars. Any of my V8's from Edlebrock cost around $300 to $400, brand new. Granted these were produced on a mass scale, but, it's only a casting issue. Just my .02

[baked_limabeans]

don't know if I'm reading it right but the low end is really low compared to "stock."

The area under the curve for the intake manifold looks to be much lower than that of stock so wouldn't that be of less benefit or something.
Not trying to bash the manifold but I was thinking it would increase the numbers along the whole rpm range.

[richardholdener]

Please feel free to ask questions about the intake rather than resort to speculation. The intake offers the gains described by the dyno chart with no CEL and no changes to ECU. There are no programming changes necessary for the intake upgrade. The reason for this is the Yaris motor features a mass air meter which compensates for the additional airflow produced by the resonance tuning. The mass ai rmeter will address the extra airflow and offer the necessary extra fuel flow. The intake upgrade produced the same air/fuel curve as the stock manifold. These gains are not dependant on the CAI, but the combination of the CAI and intake will offer slightly more power than the intake and stock air box.

I'm just a bit doubtful if the stock ECU will be able to handle the better induction without throwing a code. It seems to have quite tight operating parameters which it considers "normal".

Will an aftermarket air filter be necessary, or can you just bolt the stock airbox back in?

Lots of questions but that's because I'm interested in the product. 10whp is too good a gain to turn down if it is plug and play.

[richardholdener]

You are reading the graph incorrectly. As indicated by the power curve, the new intake offers better power at every rpm than the stock manifold, from below 2500 rpm to 6500 rpm. Though the most prominent gains come past 5000 rpm, the new intake does offer gains of 4-5 lbs. ft. at 3500rpm and 5-6 lbs. ft. at 4000 rpm.

don't know if I'm reading it right but the low end is really low compared to "stock."

The area under the curve for the intake manifold looks to be much lower than that of stock so wouldn't that be of less benefit or something.
Not trying to bash the manifold but I was thinking it would increase the numbers along the whole rpm range.

[richardholdener]

This is an economy of scale question. To produce a casting requires a substantial initail investement in tooling and molds ($30-40,000 for a simple one), then castings and machining cost are dependant on the number of articles produced (the greater the production run the lower the per unit cost). naturally we will not be casting an intake for the Yaris market as we doubt intake sales will justify the investment of $50,000. This means we have to run small production runs of a hand-fabricated (some CNC work) intake-the end result is a more expensive per unit cost.

I just don't see any reason for the intake to be more than a few hundred dollars. Any of my V8's from Edlebrock cost around $300 to $400, brand new. Granted these were produced on a mass scale, but, it's only a casting issue. Just my .02

[richardholdener]

We will provide a test to verify the gains both turbo (and centirfugal supercharged) and NA, as the intake offers power gains on all applications. Contrary to some of the nonsense on the internet, intake design is a function of engine displacement, cam timing and operating rpm. The difference between an intake for a normally aspirated combination and a turbo combination (using the same motor, cam tming and operating speed) is minimal. Again, the intake runs with stock ECU and no CELs.

I believe the intake manifold will run on the stock ECU. It's not forced induction, just BETTER induction :biggrin:

And, since it's on the cold side, it would certainly work alongside a turbo application.. :drool:

[richardholdener]

This is not entirely accurate, as the intake will offer gains with the stock air box and exhaust. The combination of the intake, CAI and free-flowing exhaust will produce more power than the intake with a stock exhaust and air box, but the intake will still off the same percentage gains with both combinations.

If the TB remains in the same position which it think it does you should be able to use the stock airbox.... BUT,, why would you do that? In order to achive the full benefits of an Intake manifold the car will require a performance Intake and Exhaust. Other wise what would be the point to invest on the Intake Mani???

[richardholdener]

Cost will be $699.

:iono:

[richardholdener]

Hope there is no confusion, but the intake for the 1.5L Yaris is different than for the 1.8L Xd (or Yaris TS). I hope the Yaris TS and Xd will share the same design, but I will need to check packaging on TS before we know for sure.

That will sell very well for xD owners.......perhaps a caravan down from the NW with all of our owners would help production......LOL......

Patiently waiting for intake.....the 1.5 needs something liek this badly.

[richardholdener]

If you are running the Blitz/Greddy then the intake/supercharger combo replace the factory intake. If you are going the Rotrex route, this intake will offer sizable power gains on that application.

going supercharged. i wont be needing this anymore. still hope all works ouyt well though

[Yoda]

so rotrex is making a sc?

[bzinn 1]

Hope there is no confusion, but the intake for the 1.5L Yaris is different than for the 1.8L Xd (or Yaris TS). I hope the Yaris TS and Xd will share the same design, but I will need to check packaging on TS before we know for sure.

Sorry I meant 1.8......the xD really us under powered for what it weighs.....that is the only complaint about the xD you will hear from owners.

[cali yaris]

"The Rotrex route"... ? need more info!

[KCALB SIRAY]

Everyones ears just perked up and did a Scooby, lol

[richardholdener]

I am not providing any new information-I just thought the PE blower kit used a Rotrex. The point is that a centrifugal supercharger systems still uses the stock or my intake and that this blow-thru system will benefit from the intake upgrade.

"The Rotrex route"... ? need more info!

[at3GG]

You can't use the blitz with this IM as it (the Blitz kit) replace the intake and manifold. It seems to me that if this with a full exhaust is making 120whp, so say maybe 125 with the pulley set...why exactly would you spend the $3400 on the blitz, when that only make 130ish? 700-intake-200 good CAI 700ish for full exhaust 250? for pullies....1850 compared to 3400.....plus no warranty issues....plus the ability to use a "rotrex style" SC eventually or turbo? seems a simple choice to me

[richardholdener]

The retail listed has alwasy been $699. We applied a numberof bolt ons to the Yaris and came up with 120 wheel hp-130-135 would be difficult without going inside the motor to port the head and add cams. I believe the blitz supercharger has its own intake as part of the blower so I don't think it can be combined with the intake. Running a turbo or centrifugal supercharger with the intake at 4-5 psi should be good for around 150 hp.

$699 is better then before I believe it was going to be $800. And look the Intake and all other boltons should give around 130-135hp. Or add the Blitz to this and it's looking like 145-150hp.

[baked_limabeans]

sweet. Looking at it again, i realized that i was looking at it wrong. I'm an idiot. I wonder if i'll change classes in autox if i get this...

EDIT: been reading the solo rules and it will change my classing.

[ddongbap]

I'm just a bit doubtful if the stock ECU will be able to handle the better induction without throwing a code. It seems to have quite tight operating parameters which it considers "normal".

Will an aftermarket air filter be necessary, or can you just bolt the stock airbox back in?

Lots of questions but that's because I'm interested in the product. 10whp is too good a gain to turn down if it is plug and play.

I'm running a supercharge tune on a N/A car, so yea. Don't jump to conclusions.

BTW, Mr. Richard Holdner, is this kit the top end one? Or is this the midrange one? I know there was a poll earlier. I didn't get to see what everyone had chosen.

[richardholdener]

Thi sis the top end version-we willnot be offering the mid-range version.

I'm running a supercharge tune on a N/A car, so yea. Don't jump to conclusions.

BTW, Mr. Richard Holdner, is this kit the top end one? Or is this the midrange one? I know there was a poll earlier. I didn't get to see what everyone had chosen.

[ddongbap]

Thi sis the top end version-we willnot be offering the mid-range version.

NICE.

[cleong]

Please feel free to ask questions about the intake rather than resort to speculation. The intake offers the gains described by the dyno chart with no CEL and no changes to ECU. There are no programming changes necessary for the intake upgrade. The reason for this is the Yaris motor features a mass air meter which compensates for the additional airflow produced by the resonance tuning. The mass ai rmeter will address the extra airflow and offer the necessary extra fuel flow. The intake upgrade produced the same air/fuel curve as the stock manifold. These gains are not dependant on the CAI, but the combination of the CAI and intake will offer slightly more power than the intake and stock air box.

Thank you. You told me exactly what I wanted to know. As you can see, I'm rather far away, so when the user dyno charts start flooding in confirming the performance increase, I'm buying one.

As you mention that it is a CNC-ed part, do you have problems with heatsoak from having it bolted to the engine, and then the manifold heating up the intake air temperature though? One of my mates tried a custom built stainless steel manifold on his engine, but abandoned the idea as intake temps jumped from an ambient of 100-110 degrees to 160 degrees, which ended up costing the engine power instead.

[kou]

^^^you need aluminium not stainless steel for an intake.^^^^

[Nexus1155]

lol not trying to bash, but youre funny as hell dude, what constitutes it need to be made of aluminum... if someone has a sheet of stainless steel and welded up an intake manifold would it not work? right... i mean hell, even if the thing was made of fiberglass it could essentially work....

[kou]

lol not trying to bash, but youre funny as hell dude, what constitutes it need to be made of aluminum... if someone has a sheet of stainless steel and welded up an intake manifold would it not work? right... i mean hell, even if the thing was made of fiberglass it could essentially work....

fiberglass would be ok but we already have plastic one unless the could mold a nice one out of carbon fiber. about the aluminium i would have thought that it would dissapate heat better than stainless.

[Nexus1155]

i think its like a 50/50 thing because of brake lines and exhausts and junk are made from stainless steel, but i think any metal would work... as long as it doesnt melt

[Klink10]

subscribed and waiting

[Treyz]

damm east coast misses out AGAIN......

+1

[toyochris]

We need pics and price? pls.

[richardholdener]

As indicated elsewhere in this post, the retail pricing is $699. No pics are available since all we have is the performance prototype which does not represent the production intake. What we need at this point is to generate an official list. We need to have 10 yaris owners step up to purchase the intake so they can go into production. There will be NO deposit money required up front, just your word in print that you will be purchasing the intake when the production pieces are ready. Prior to any payment and shipping the production intakes, I will be happy to have Garm (or other member) come out for an official dyno test to illustrate the gains. For this intake to be produced, we need to have 10 buyers. If we get 20 buyers, we can talk about a group buy which would knock off $50 per manifold.

[cee_dub2003]

I would just like to throw my 2 cents into this. I take my hat off to the making of this intake manifold. I really don't see committing to a high dollar item without seeing more info on this intake manifold. Everyone has to realize you are committing "with your word and in print" to purchase a item that hasn't even been seen yet. I wouldn't commit to buy any performance item without seeing pictures. whats wrong with posting prototype pictures? Its prototype right? I think everyone here would like to see pictures, and have more info on what they are committing to this.

Any A/F readings taken?

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

As indicated elsewhere in this post, the retail pricing is $699. No pics are available since all we have is the performance prototype which does not represent the production intake. What we need at this point is to generate an official list. We need to have 10 yaris owners step up to purchase the intake so they can go into production. There will be NO deposit money required up front, just your word in print that you will be purchasing the intake when the production pieces are ready. Prior to any payment and shipping the production intakes, I will be happy to have Garm (or other member) come out for an official dyno test to illustrate the gains. For this intake to be produced, we need to have 10 buyers. If we get 20 buyers, we can talk about a group buy which would knock off $50 per manifold.

im sure there are 20 people right now who want one one. if we had 40 people whats the discount then???

[bdc87]

I know of Richard from my mustang days, you can believe what he says but, pics of the actual product might help sway some thinking about it.

[richardholdener]

Since we don't even have 10 people willing to put their name on a list as of yet-I think it is a little premature to talk about group buys for 40. Also, the photo issue has already been addressed-only a prototype exists and it does not represent the production piece. Here is a photo of the production Nissan Versa intake-the yaris intake will feature a head flange, runners and a common plenum with a throttle body mount,but it will look nothin glike this one nor will it look like the prototype used for testing. There will be no photos of the prototype intake-only if and when the production piece is ready to display (much earlier than the full production run if we get the requistite number of yaris owner to indicate they intend to purchase if and only if we provide the following things: 1. an intake that bolts on a provides the power gains illustrated by the power graph, accepts the stock throtle body and associated lines and fittings and runs with no CELs at a price of $699). Since I am asking for no money up front, only an indication to purchase if these requirements are met. Please let me know if there is sufficient interest or if we should move on to a different application..

im sure there are 20 people right now who want one one. if we had 40 people whats the discount then???

[richardholdener]

Nissan Versa intake photo too large to upload-can I e-mail it to someone to manipulate?

[richardholdener]

Air fuel is the same as stock intake since this motor has a mass air meter.

I would just like to throw my 2 cents into this. I take my hat off to the making of this intake manifold. I really don't see committing to a high dollar item without seeing more info on this intake manifold. Everyone has to realize you are committing "with your word and in print" to purchase a item that hasn't even been seen yet. I wouldn't commit to buy any performance item without seeing pictures. whats wrong with posting prototype pictures? Its prototype right? I think everyone here would like to see pictures, and have more info on what they are committing to this.

Any A/F readings taken?

[taKuto]

upload to a image hosting site and usually during the upload they have resize options. imageshack.us or tinypic.com are a few

[ddongbap]

I would just like to throw my 2 cents into this. I take my hat off to the making of this intake manifold. I really don't see committing to a high dollar item without seeing more info on this intake manifold. Everyone has to realize you are committing "with your word and in print" to purchase a item that hasn't even been seen yet. I wouldn't commit to buy any performance item without seeing pictures. whats wrong with posting prototype pictures? Its prototype right? I think everyone here would like to see pictures, and have more info on what they are committing to this.

Any A/F readings taken?

People on this forums buy F/I kits that produce similar power and spend tons more.

Just because you don't believe the words of this master, doesn't make it false.

He probably doesn't post a picture, because like just about everyone else in this world, if he posts the prototype picture, everyone'll expect that. Or have some kind of misguided opinion of the product. When the final one arrives, and isn't what people expected, even though that isn't what was even promised, people'll complain. Its what happens.

And because you think that you need pictures, doesn't mean the rest of us do. Don't speak for the rest of us.

[kou]

this is the versa manifold.

[Nexus1155]

i saw that in the siphon magazing... anyone know what happened to them, they just stopped publishing?!

[kou]

no more siphon magazine this issue was the last.i am just guessing the same company is producing the yaris manifold.

[PETERPOOP]

put me on that list.

[kou]

put me on that list.

you are on the list.

[cleong]

If the prototype doesn't look like the functional production piece, would it still work the same and put out similar dyno numbers?

Showing us a Nissan Versa manifold doesn't do much for me; it has less in common to an actual production Yaris manifold than a prototype Yaris manifold.

[Sabretooth]

Put me down on that GB list! Just need time to reserve the money

[Noisetube]

Is this a request for the early Xb-we can just need 10 Xb owners to step up.

Question,
Any chance the Yaris intake will fit the Xb? since you're asking for 10 owners I assume you don't think it will. Because of the throttle or because of the engine bay room ?

Thanks.

[richardholdener]

The gains would be similar for the easrly Xb since they share the same motor. We could do a run of intakes fo rthe early Xb as well (since much would be shared with yaris design), but like the yaris, we would need 10 early Xb owners to sign up to justify the production run.

Question,
Any chance the Yaris intake will fit the Xb? since you're asking for 10 owners I assume you don't think it will. Because of the throttle or because of the engine bay room ?

Thanks.

[richardholdener]

Might also be able to do an adapter plate to go from yaris TB mounting flange to early XB mounting fplange-depends on orientationof intake in engine bay-I need to look at early Xb engine bay.

[toyochris]

if i put on myself on the list is there a time limit for the pay or can i be asure that if i dont put myself on the list now would it be production of the intake manifold on the future?

[richardholdener]

I'm not sure if I understand the question. If you are serious about wanting to purchase an intake for the yaris-put your name on the list. If we don't get 10 people to sign up-there will be no intakes. If we do, the those people will get the first production run of intakes and it is undecided if there will be an additional production run. Best bet if you want an intake-step up and get on the list.

[PETERPOOP]

OoOOooOOoo. I might be one of ten with the only aftermarket intake manifold for a looooooooooong time. Nice

[PHXDEMON]

I would be interested in an intake that had a flange for a larger throttle body. Anyone who has installed an intake on our cars sees how tiny the throttle body is on our motors. I think If we were to swap to a larger throttle body off like a TC or a corolla then there would be a much more noticible difference in HP :iono:

[bdc87]

I thought there was a plate for that?

[richardholdener]

The prototype intake was made with a flange to accept the larger Xd throttle body. The throttle body upgrade was only worth 1-2 hp-not enough to justify the expense of purchasing the new or used throttle body. Since I know whatthe next question will be (we've already covered this), the larger Xd throttle body will bolt onto the stock intake but sealing will be an isue since the hole in th eintake is much smaller than the hole in the throtle body. Ditton fo rthe rubber o-ring throttle body gasket. Besides, you will need to enlarge hole in th eintake which will be difficult since there is little wall thickness. An adapter plate can be made to facilitate the swap, but again cost versus power gain is not very favorable.

I would be interested in an intake that had a flange for a larger throttle body. Anyone who has installed an intake on our cars sees how tiny the throttle body is on our motors. I think If we were to swap to a larger throttle body off like a TC or a corolla then there would be a much more noticible difference in HP :iono:

[cee_dub2003]

Air fuel is the same as stock intake since this motor has a mass air meter.


That is really hard to understand! For one the MAF only calibrates air volume and AIT temp. adding more air into each cylinder would cause the car to run lean, and ping, causing the knock sensor to draw back timing to compensate for the lean in tunr loosing HP.

I have seen a intake manifold for a TC do this. I would really like to see how you have done this when the Toyotas MAF is a very learing piece of equipment.

[richardholdener]

Hopefully this will help you and others understand why your comments are somewhat inaccurate. The mass air meter is not a learning device, it is a simple measurement device that measures mass flow (temp, volume and infered density). The learning portion of the equation comes from the ECU (interpretation of signals from various sensors including MAF). Using a hot wire, voltage is applied to keep the wire at a given temperature. The greater the airflow (or lower the temperature of said air), the greater the voltage required to maintain a constant element temperature. This change in voltage (or frequency on some MAF applications) is correlated to airflow based on the relationship between ID of the meter assembly and what is refered to as the sample tube (flow orifice to hot wire element). The change in airflow through the system (that happens at different engine speeds and/or loads) is compensated for by the MAF. The same thing happens with changes in airflow from something like an intake upgrade. Problems can arise when you run out of effective meter range (we call this topping out the meter-meaning we reach the voltage ceiling near 5.0V). This can happen with major power gains like those achieved with a blower or turbo. We rescale the meter and combine it with larger injectors for these applications, but for something simple like an intake upgrade-there is no need for this. In reality, altering the mass air meter (by orientation, entry or alteration of ratio between flow orifice and metering orifice) will have much more of a change in the air/fuel ratio than adding the intake manifold. This knowledge on the workings of a mass air meter plus the actual data that came from the hundreds of direct back-to-back dyno tests run indicate that the air/fuel is not effected by the change in intake manifold on the Yaris. I make it a point never to bring speculation to a data fight.

That is really hard to understand! For one the MAF only calibrates air volume and AIT temp. adding more air into each cylinder would cause the car to run lean, and ping, causing the knock sensor to draw back timing to compensate for the lean in tunr loosing HP.

I have seen a intake manifold for a TC do this. I would really like to see how you have done this when the Toyotas MAF is a very learing piece of equipment.

[cee_dub2003]

Thank you for clarifying that better for me. Sorry for the somewhat information information.

[ZING]

ANd this would work on my '09 LB 1.3L engine, yes?

[richardholdener]

Intake has only been tested on 1.5L. NOt sure if 1.3L shares same intake config.

[ZING]

Intake has only been tested on 1.5L. NOt sure if 1.3L shares same intake config.


:cry:

[Tamago]

Unfortunately we lost a rod while running higher boost levels and .

what kind of boost levels were you running and for how long? help the 1NZ community out

[richardholdener]

I am helping the community out by findin gout exactly what caused the probelm before jumping on the speculation bandwagon. The boost level did not hurt the motor nor the length of time spent at any given boost level. There had to be some type of ignition error that that resulted in excessive timing. We are looking into this and will report if we find the answer.

what kind of boost levels were you running and for how long? help the 1NZ community out

[Nexus1155]

got any pictures? Did the rod just break, bearings/melted piston?.... The H22 i have overspun the bearing and it popped a nice hole in the block...

[Tamago]

I am helping the community out by findin gout exactly what caused the probelm before jumping on the speculation bandwagon. The boost level did not hurt the motor nor the length of time spent at any given boost level. There had to be some type of ignition error that that resulted in excessive timing. We are looking into this and will report if we find the answer.

ok i guess that's a non answer ;) stock 1NZ rods break on fully stock xA/B's due to high RPM's for extended periods of time. toyota fixed this by giving you Yaris people taller gears (better highway cruising) ..

if you read the write-up done by elprototypes on boosting the 1NZ the rods are the first things to go. the engine is over-square and offset crank which causes piston slap (which is obviously made worse by boost) and ultimately rod failure. there is no "speculation bandwagon" on the 1NZ.. it's been around almost 10 years..

is this your first 1NZ vehicle, Richard?

[cali yaris]

I think by speculation bandwagon, he meant he's not going to speculate about his particular car within the context of what caused the failure. It is interesting that his failed under less than extremely stressful conditions, while mine has not failed after six months of driving at 8psi without any tuning whatsoever.

So, whatever he finds out will be interesting. A pic of the rod would sure be entertaining, in the meantime.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

ok i guess that's a non answer ;) stock 1NZ rods break on fully stock xA/B's due to high RPM's for extended periods of time. toyota fixed this by giving you Yaris people taller gears (better highway cruising) ..

if you read the write-up done by elprototypes on boosting the 1NZ the rods are the first things to go. the engine is over-square and offset crank which causes piston slap (which is obviously made worse by boost) and ultimately rod failure. there is no "speculation bandwagon" on the 1NZ.. it's been around almost 10 years..

is this your first 1NZ vehicle, Richard?

don't mind him, he's just our resident scion ass paper who thinks his knowledge is helpful.....

[Tamago]

don't mind him, he's just our resident scion ass paper who thinks his knowledge is helpful.....

:wub::wub:

better than being ignorant like you

[richardholdener]

Thanks Rockland for the insight on the previous post regarding con rods-it is appreciated. Piston slap, offset crank pins-where do these guys come up with this stuff? I can remember when the light clicked on for me, the day that I realized that I didn't know everything and in fact knew very little. That is the day I officially started learning. Unfortunately, people put forth much more effort convincing others of their knowledge than actually obtaining it. For the record-Rod failure is caused by tension loads (rpm), extreme compression loads (detonation or extremely high power levels) or fatigue cycle life (extended operation near fatigue). Since none of the other situations were present-we must suspect detonation as the culprit, but will perform a post mortem to see if there is any evidence. The 1NZFE rods do not fail by design, neither did the Honda rods or small block Ford rods or any of the many powdered metal production rods-the culprit has almost always been a tuning error. There is a limit to the power production with the production rods, but since (in the case of this yaris) we were nowhere near that absolute power limit

don't mind him, he's just our resident scion ass paper who thinks his knowledge is helpful.....

[Tamago]

The 1NZFE rods do not fail by design

so explain this:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/PIC_1036.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/PIC_1043.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/PIC_1065.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/PIC_1075.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/broken23.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/broken24.jpg

on a stock engine, stock ecu, intake, exhaust, bone dry day (so dont' even say it was hydrolock) at 85mph (over 4300rpm) about 80F ambient temperature, engine had 47,000 miles on it.

the 1NZ is not designed to rev above 4000rpm for extended periods of time.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

:wub::wub:

better than being ignorant like you
:laugh: ass paper.....

[Tamago]

:laugh: ass paper.....

hey, at least i didn't put spaghetti with bendy ends between my seatbelt bolts and call it a suspension mod ;)

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

hey, at least i didn't put spaghetti with bendy ends between my seatbelt bolts and call it a suspension mod ;)

better than that video of you with the bald tires. what a waste of 5 minutes that was.....

[Tamago]

better than that video of you with the bald tires. what a waste of 5 minutes that was.....

you think?

a video of a car that could rape you in its sleep, on tires 50mm wider than you'll ever be able to run, with twice the power you'll ever see is worse than spaghetti and bendy ends.. that you could build from home depot or hrpworld.com for around $12... at least it's shiney with a cool sticker on it (no offense to you Garm)

[Nexus1155]

GENTLEMEN!!!! CUT THE SHIT

[Tamago]

GENTLEMEN!!!! CUT THE SHIT

i'm done..

i came here to ask richard H a legit question

Rockland started it ;)

[Nexus1155]

hahah sorry, but i had to intervene, don't want Richard taking away the manifolds

[richardholdener]

No worries about the intake situation--and I respect people having and voicing their opinion(this is what makes America great). I just wish they would not be so quick to draw absolute conclusions from such small samples (the equivalent of automotive bigotry). One or even two damaged con rods does not mean all NZFE rods are bad. Honda guys thought this too, but since I ran stock B16s in endurance racing where we ran 8200 rpm for 24 hours, not to mention producing over 500 hp in turbo form, I'd say the weak con rod theory was just that. FYI-Engine testing at the OEM level includes running the motor for 24 hour periods and ranging the engine speed from peak torque to peak horsepower. This is done at 1/4 throttle, 1/2 throttle, 3/4 throttle and then at WOT to endurance test the reciprocating assembly. I personally have run my Yaris in 4th gear from Vegas to So Cal and back (mileage testing for my book) and run it flat out 114 mph for almost 9 straight miles. This combined with the hundreds of dyno tests run to the rev limiter under WOT shows me that (as has been their history) Toyota over and not underbuilds their vehicles.



hahah sorry, but i had to intervene, don't want Richard taking away the manifolds

[Sabretooth]

over and not underbuilds their vehicles

Well said!

[LtNoogie]

Can we, can we all get along?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfr2CgIPhg

[Tamago]

No worries about the intake situation--and I respect people having and voicing their opinion(this is what makes America great). I just wish they would not be so quick to draw absolute conclusions from such small samples (the equivalent of automotive bigotry). One or even two damaged con rods does not mean all NZFE rods are bad. Honda guys thought this too, but since I ran stock B16s in endurance racing where we ran 8200 rpm for 24 hours, not to mention producing over 500 hp in turbo form, I'd say the weak con rod theory was just that. FYI-Engine testing at the OEM level includes running the motor for 24 hour periods and ranging the engine speed from peak torque to peak horsepower. This is done at 1/4 throttle, 1/2 throttle, 3/4 throttle and then at WOT to endurance test the reciprocating assembly. I personally have run my Yaris in 4th gear from Vegas to So Cal and back (mileage testing for my book) and run it flat out 114 mph for almost 9 straight miles. This combined with the hundreds of dyno tests run to the rev limiter under WOT shows me that (as has been their history) Toyota over and not underbuilds their vehicles.

all that said, you threw a rod :iono:
i'm not bashing the 1nzfe. i love them so much i'm on number 2. :thumbup:

[Nexus1155]

is the 1nz-fe sleeved like the B18....ehhhhh!!!! ;) happy halloween

[dallas]

With previous dyno runs with bigger intake manifolds and throttle bodys without more displaement, more cam, or forced induction a higher flowing intake will offer very little gain and may loose h.p /torque until very high rpm.
What calculations are you using for runner diameter and length.

[PETERPOOP]

can't wait for my manifold!

[cleong]

OoOOooOOoo. I might be one of ten with the only aftermarket intake manifold for a looooooooooong time. Nice

If the manifold turns out to be that good i'm sure Richard will be making as many as he can sell! He surely needs to recoup his R&D costs somehow.

The only way I could see a great manifold not being continued is if it costs more to make than what the market is willing to pay.

[cali yaris]

The only way I could see a great manifold not being continued is if it costs more to make than what the market is willing to pay.

cali yaris = "the market" :biggrin:

[RagnaCaT]

so explain this:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/broken%20egg/PIC_1065.jpg

on a stock engine, stock ecu, intake, exhaust, bone dry day (so dont' even say it was hydrolock) at 85mph (over 4300rpm) about 80F ambient temperature, engine had 47,000 miles on it.

the 1NZ is not designed to rev above 4000rpm for extended periods of time.

Nice! looks like the same thing that happened to my cousin's 7A-FE it was the oil pump and he didn't stop the car cuase it was late in the night. Not a big issue if watch the GUAGE! Also thats :bs: about the above 4000rpm come down to P.R. and drive in the highway towards Cayey reving hard between 3rd and 4th gear to mantain 80mph thats above 4000rpm up hill like half hour drive or around 15 miles. I got A/T and M/T they get the same punishment when I'm behind the wheel remember it's a TOYOTA.

[PETERPOOP]

If the manifold turns out to be that good i'm sure Richard will be making as many as he can sell! He surely needs to recoup his R&D costs somehow.

The only way I could see a great manifold not being continued is if it costs more to make than what the market is willing to pay.

well...

If we don't get 10 people to sign up-there will be no intakes. If we do, the those people will get the first production run of intakes and it is undecided if there will be an additional production run. Best bet if you want an intake-step up and get on the list.

[richardholdener]

Is this question directed at me? The statement that a higher flowing intake will yield very little gain and may loose hp until high rpm is inaccurate. Intake manifolds are not simple flow devices-they are tuned to produce power at specific engine speeds based on the other variables you mentioned (displacement, cam timing etc...) It does not take a bigger or higher flowing intake to make more power, it takes the right design elements. The calculations are extremely complicated for more reasons than I can go into in such a short space. We ran over 100 different combinations before deciding on this one illustrated by the dyno curve provided. Intake design is more than just welding together a plenum, runners and flange.

With previous dyno runs with bigger intake manifolds and throttle bodys without more displaement, more cam, or forced induction a higher flowing intake will offer very little gain and may loose h.p /torque until very high rpm.
What calculations are you using for runner diameter and length.

[richardholdener]

PS-The tuning effect works the same on NA and FI applications.

With previous dyno runs with bigger intake manifolds and throttle bodys without more displaement, more cam, or forced induction a higher flowing intake will offer very little gain and may loose h.p /torque until very high rpm.
What calculations are you using for runner diameter and length.

[Nexus1155]

Intake design is more than just welding together a plenum, runners and flange

It's physics....muahahahahahah....

[cleong]

well...
If we don't get 10 people to sign up-there will be no intakes. If we do, the those people will get the first production run of intakes and it is undecided if there will be an additional production run. Best bet if you want an intake-step up and get on the list.

Well if its a great manifold and profitable, why would Richard stop at just one (short) production run?

[Sabretooth]

Well if the production models are well built and sell enough, what says that Garm wouldnt stock them and sell them directly? at a possible discount.

[PETERPOOP]

well...

If we don't get 10 people to sign up-there will be no intakes. If we do, the those people will get the first production run of intakes and it is undecided if there will be an additional production run. Best bet if you want an intake-step up and get on the list.

[Sabretooth]

Well then, get signed up...lol

[bobobitch]

how much do intake manifolds usually go for for the yaris??? becuase i talked to some of the people from weapon r and they are developing one for the yaris and so far their headers and intakes are pretty bad ass

[Nexus1155]

Weapon R is not Richard Holdener ;)

[PETERPOOP]

everyone knows weapon r sucks

[TKO]

Say...Do you have anything for the xA/xB yet?

[kimo]

I think 1.3L and 1.5L are the same, only diffrent in piston size between them.
Maybe be better ask the dealer.

QUOTE=ZING;157953]:cry:[/QUOTE]

[newyar]

Did these ever get produced? Any results, feedback from the first 10 customers?

[eTiMaGo]

nope, it's all been silent for the past couple months, some people still holding on to a glimmer of hope...

[cali yaris]

I'm gonna make my own.

[bdc87]

For others 2?

[blacksandiegovitz]

I'm gonna make my own.

WOOt Woot , have a few made for other Yw members too :thumbup:

[AlexNet0]

I'm gonna make my own.


me, me, me, me tooo, lol let us know what it costs when its done so I can start saving!

[cleong]

Could someone just talk Mr. Holdener into selling the design?

[marcus]

i think hes busy with more profitable mods.

[eTiMaGo]

yes but I agree with cleong, if Richard was willing to sell the design, someone else could arrange for its production and distribution. Would save a lot of time compared to re-engineering a new design...

[yaris-me]

Cali Yaris?:smile:

[Nexus1155]

Has anyone tried prospecting him to sell the design yet?

[yaris-me]

Bump.

[cali yaris]

Yes, I tried that. No response.

[cleong]

My head tells me it is vaporware, but my heart is telling me, "Say it isn't true!"

[AlexNet0]

My head tells me it is vaporware, but my heart is telling me, "Say it isn't true!"

God, stop bumping this thread, LOL, Its painful

[DerFlosser]

bump

[PHXDEMON]

Richard PMed me. He said if we keep bumping this thread he will build the manifold once it hits 100 pages.

[cali yaris]

LOL.

I'm going to call Dynatek directly tomorrow, since that was the company that was going to produce it. Let's get to the bottom of this.

[Benggolf2]

Richard PMed me. He said if we keep bumping this thread he will build the manifold once it hits 100 pages.


:biggrin: Its like telling us...forget it! :wink:

[blacksandiegovitz]

Bump

[cali yaris]

^ LOL

[DerFlosser]

This is probaby the only performance modification aside from a higher flow exhaust mani/header that I would consider. Subtle and simple while retaining the characteristcs which make the 1NZ a nice motor.:thumbup:

[blacksandiegovitz]

bump x2

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

BUMP

[marcus]

thought this is R.I.P... i guess thread is a born again... BUMP to infinity.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

still DEAD but i guess garm is gonna make his own pieces now....

[cali yaris]

UPDATE 5/13

I talked directly with Dynatek today. Good conversation.

1. Richard Holdener is no longer with Dynatek. That explains his disappearance from here too -- since they are the ones who would produce the parts.

2. They are interested in the project and are going to check on a few things and get back to me. They are at a show this week so there won't be any more news until next week.

So, we have established connection and MIGHT be able to get this project back on track. There ya go. :thumbsup:

[fuji]

If the project DOES get back in production, please sign me up for an intake manifold!:drinking:

[cali yaris]

If it does we'll start a new thread and finally let this one die. :thumbsup:

[marcus]

assuming no cel codes. im in

1. marcus
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

[DerFlosser]

awesome. Thanks for the effort(s) Garm! :thumbsup:

[cali yaris]

marcus, too soon for that. I need to get this farther along before we can start a list again.

Thanks for the enthusiasm though!

[Galavoxx]

Holy Bat Guano!! I've been lurking for ages on this one. Let's git her done!

[mrbond]

For sure, we need to get this piece in production. frownonfun has the Rotrex kit, and I'm betting he'll yield much bigger gains. When I get around to getting a Procharger unit sometime next year, I'll need to have one of these.

[Treyz]

Garm to the rscue haha!

[whooppee777]

dead

[cali yaris]

What does "dead" mean? Read post 167.

[whooppee777]

how the hell did i miss that post.

i still say its dead.

i highly doubt dynatek is going to make the manifolds for half a dozen yaris owners that are willing to buy them.

turboyaris can make this. i'll even send him my oem manifold for him to do it, he just needs someone local to him to come test fit it every now and then

[ztrack157]

I think there should be no more posts until product is being produced. If 5 or 10 or more are made they will sell. Until then I don't think our hearts can handle another heartbreak.

[cali yaris]

1. If I have a conversation with the manufacturer that is positive, WHICH I DID, I'm going to post that. Ztrack, are you telling me not to share real results?

2. It's not dead, whooppee. I'm going to buy a production run, regardless of how many people "sign up" or not. If you want in early, you'll get a better deal. So your point about the number isn't relevant.

3. I'm GETTING these made, one way or another. Dynatek owns the design and there is a confirmed prototype, so that is the easier route, I think.

Or.... go make your own, but it hasn't happened yet, has it? :frown:

[Nexus1155]

i'll even send him my oem manifold for him to do it, he just needs someone local to him to come test fit it every now and then

Weapon R has made one for the XA or XB w/e and it is based off oem manifold i think and no gains FAIL, Holdeners longer runners provided gains....

[whooppee777]

Weapon R has made one for the XA or XB w/e and it is based off oem manifold i think and no gains FAIL, Holdeners longer runners provided gains....

the weapon r manifold doesnt have the right bolt pattern for the throttle body. xb/xa have 3 bolts yaris has 4. i had already looked into that long ago

[whooppee777]

1. If I have a conversation with the manufacturer that is positive, WHICH I DID, I'm going to post that. Ztrack, are you telling me not to share real results?

2. It's not dead, whooppee. I'm going to buy a production run, regardless of how many people "sign up" or not. If you want in early, you'll get a better deal. So your point about the number isn't relevant.

3. I'm GETTING these made, one way or another. Dynatek owns the design and there is a confirmed prototype, so that is the easier route, I think.

Or.... go make your own, but it hasn't happened yet, has it? :frown:

if you stick the prototype manifold on ur engine i will kill you. if you car gets any more awesome a black hole will form at the earths core and all life will be over as we know it

[cali yaris]

LOL, I'll probably be LAST, like with the 23mm sway bars. :frown:

[whooppee777]

roof scoop hasnt been installed either has it?

[cali yaris]

What is that related to? :iono:

[ztrack157]

1. If I have a conversation with the manufacturer that is positive, WHICH I DID, I'm going to post that. Ztrack, are you telling me not to share real results?

2. It's not dead, whooppee. I'm going to buy a production run, regardless of how many people "sign up" or not. If you want in early, you'll get a better deal. So your point about the number isn't relevant.

3. I'm GETTING these made, one way or another. Dynatek owns the design and there is a confirmed prototype, so that is the easier route, I think.

Or.... go make your own, but it hasn't happened yet, has it? :frown:

Garm I have more faith in you than anyone else on the forum. You put up and rather than shut up and deliver. I'm not telling you to not share results. I'm just visual I want to see something rather than hear about possibilities. ZPI and Tricky Dicky have made me skittish. When its in production I will be in line but until then... well you know how that goes. Good luck

[bubaa]

good luck i hope to see that manifold later on production

[newyar]

If this comes alive and becomes a real product I'm definitely interested.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

how the hell did i miss that post.

i still say its dead.

i highly doubt dynatek is going to make the manifolds for half a dozen yaris owners that are willing to buy them.

turboyaris can make this. i'll even send him my oem manifold for him to do it, he just needs someone local to him to come test fit it every now and then

he needs a manifold? i have 2 sitting around right now. pm going to him now.

[cali yaris]

He'll need time with a car and a dyno to test the design. You can't just make one of these and assume it makes more power.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

He'll need time with a car and a dyno to test the design. You can't just make one of these and assume it makes more power.

I'LL start him on his journey and see where it ends up. the manifold is just sitting around so what harm is there. besides he has his own car to use and access to a dyno i believe.....

[Sabretooth]

I thought turboyaris was doing 240sx's now?

[Sabretooth]

Oh and it wouldnt be the first time that turboyaris has built an intake mani for our cars...
did some diggin.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6285

[Sabretooth]

the weapon r manifold doesnt have the right bolt pattern for the throttle body. xb/xa have 3 bolts yaris has 4. i had already looked into that long ago


Get in touch with Morgan, she obviously did the retrofit of TB setups for her blitz kit...maybe she can give us the right direction on making a weapon r intake manifold for the xb fit.

[whooppee777]

im trying to buy his 240sx at the moment having issues allocating the monies for it. he has a 300zx also. he does not have a yaris to test a manifold on, someone would have to bring their yaris to him if he fabricates one

[Sabretooth]

Where is he located?

[cali yaris]

besides he has his own car to use and access to a dyno i believe.....

Not a Yaris. That's at least partly why we don't have harness bars yet? :frown:

[Sabretooth]

If he needs a LB to work with, I would be willing to drive the distance, if there was a free Harness bar included...lol

[whooppee777]

new jersey

[Sabretooth]

bah, too far...lol Someone call Jerkratt and tell him to get over there!

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

GETTING THERE isn't a problem. does he want the stock manifold i have?