Keyless question

[lita_g]

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to this, I just got my 08 Yaris LB a little over a month ago, when we chose it, it didn't come with keyless entry but the dealership said they could install it if I wanted it, so we added it to the contract.

Now, when they installed it, they gave me the regular key back with two separate keyfobs (no key/keyfob type), so they installed an aftermarket keyless system, we asked why and the dealership said they could not install the Toyota keyless system, oh well, we figured we would check with other dealerships and go back once we had something to fall back on.

After using the car I noticed something though, if I lock the car using the button on the door (the one that locks all doors) or if I push the lock button on the fob while a door is open, then I can't unlock the car using the remote. This to me is a fault, I spoke with the dealership and they gave me an appointment to get it fixed, I took it there and once it was done they just gave me the key and sent me off, before leaving *I* tested it and nothing was fixed, they said they changed the unit and that should have fixed it, but they never tested it.

Oh well, they offered to send a 3rd party company to do the work for them and get it fixed. So we made the appointment for them to come to my workplace and get it done. I just got the key back from the guy with 2 new keyfobs, it still does the same freaking thing!!! :mad: Now, he doesn't work for the dealership, so I couldn't complain much since apparently the dealership didn't tell him what the darn problem was, they just sent him to change the system, and apparently, according to him, with the work he's done on these cars, that's the way it's supposed to work!!!

Am I being irrational expecting the car to unlock under any circumstance??? Please Yaris people help me figure out if this is really a Yaris problem or are they trying to just make a fool of me?

[lita_g]

no one?:frown:

[lita_g]

*bump* because I'd like some other Yaris' owner opinion before going to the dealership again.

[CTScott]

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to this, I just got my 08 Yaris LB a little over a month ago, when we chose it, it didn't come with keyless entry but the dealership said they could install it if I wanted it, so we added it to the contract.

Now, when they installed it, they gave me the regular key back with two separate keyfobs (no key/keyfob type), so they installed an aftermarket keyless system, we asked why and the dealership said they could not install the Toyota keyless system, oh well, we figured we would check with other dealerships and go back once we had something to fall back on.

After using the car I noticed something though, if I lock the car using the button on the door (the one that locks all doors) or if I push the lock button on the fob while a door is open, then I can't unlock the car using the remote. This to me is a fault, I spoke with the dealership and they gave me an appointment to get it fixed, I took it there and once it was done they just gave me the key and sent me off, before leaving *I* tested it and nothing was fixed, they said they changed the unit and that should have fixed it, but they never tested it.

Oh well, they offered to send a 3rd party company to do the work for them and get it fixed. So we made the appointment for them to come to my workplace and get it done. I just got the key back from the guy with 2 new keyfobs, it still does the same freaking thing!!! :mad: Now, he doesn't work for the dealership, so I couldn't complain much since apparently the dealership didn't tell him what the darn problem was, they just sent him to change the system, and apparently, according to him, with the work he's done on these cars, that's the way it's supposed to work!!!

Am I being irrational expecting the car to unlock under any circumstance??? Please Yaris people help me figure out if this is really a Yaris problem or are they trying to just make a fool of me?



Hmmmm. Sounds like they made some mistakes with the install. I would definitely push for them to fix it.

[battleversiontc]

sounds like the didnt find the right unlock wire

[sportin83]

ttry not to use the lock switch in the door. some cars are like that and will confuse the keyless system. i dont know if these cars have problems or not, but i know some cars i have dealt with will do the same thing and nothing can do about it

[lita_g]

ttry not to use the lock switch in the door. some cars are like that and will confuse the keyless system. i dont know if these cars have problems or not, but i know some cars i have dealt with will do the same thing and nothing can do about it

Well, then my question is, considering most everybody in this forum has a yaris, and I assume a lot of people have remote keyless (factory or not), has anyone else noticed a similar problem? and also, for the people that have the factory keyless entry, does it work like that too? or is this an exception?

[CTScott]

Well, then my question is, considering most everybody in this forum has a yaris, and I assume a lot of people have remote keyless (factory or not), has anyone else noticed a similar problem? and also, for the people that have the factory keyless entry, does it work like that too? or is this an exception?

I have installed remote starters with keyless entry on half a dozen plus cars of various makes and have never encountered an issue like you mention. Tomorrow we will be installing them on my 09 Yaris and Sodium Duck's 08, so I'll check for this anomaly for you. I would agree with the prior mention that your installer probably grabbed the incorrect unlock circuit (or interfaced the keyless entry module to it incorrectly).

[lita_g]

Yeah, the funny thing is that they've replaced it twice and it still does the same thing, and the last one they put is a different brand and behaves even worse since it takes about 2 seconds for it to lock or unlock after I push the button on the remote. It just really pisses me off, since it seems to be something very simple, but they don't seem to understand the problem when they go in to fix it.

[CTScott]

Yeah, the funny thing is that they've replaced it twice and it still does the same thing, and the last one they put is a different brand and behaves even worse since it takes about 2 seconds for it to lock or unlock after I push the button on the remote. It just really pisses me off, since it seems to be something very simple, but they don't seem to understand the problem when they go in to fix it.

Exactly - They are just shotgunning the whole unit rather than diagnosing the wiring issue.

[battleversiontc]

i just checked my 08 that i installed a non factory one into and i can still unlock the car even if i locked the car with the door locks ive also checked out a factory integrated on which is on another yaris and theres still unlock even if i dont use the key fob to lock it. so there for they never grabbed the right unlock wire. i would have them trace back to what they have wired it to instead of changing the module as for the delay i dont know what the issue is with that mine locks as soon as i hit the button and this is a non factory unit which i used its a viper alarm with rs. outta curiosity what brand of keyless did the install?

[lita_g]

The one they installed when I bought it (saying they couldn't install the one from Toyota), was one that says "Ultra" on the keyfob, they never gave me a manual for it, then the 2nd one was the same, they just installed a new unit, still no manual. The third one is an Audiovox Pursuit PRO 9845B, at least that one came with a manual but that's the one that delays 2 seconds, the Ultra one didn't delay but still had the unlocking problem.

[battleversiontc]

ive never heard of the first one they installed. the audiovox is crappy they actually alway had delays when i use to install them then my shop changed to viper products they where built better and didnt have any issues i would tell them just to install a viper or if not take it to somebody to put a better system in like viper. cause the one you have this is only the beginning of your problems sorry to say but i ve dealt with alot of different alarms in the past and i find the cheap ones suck but the more expensive ones work the best with least amount of problems. by the way how much did they charge you to install that plus the product?

[lita_g]

I don't know for sure how much they added to the price, I bought the car new and it didn't come with keyless, I requested the car with keyless, so they installed that and kept saying they couldn't install the factory one since it didn't come with it. According to the toyota site, the keyless feature (if you build your own) is about $230. I didn't choose the system they installed, I just assumed they were going to install the Toyota system and well, now I'm stuck dealing with these morons.

[b_hickman11]

I installed a power lock and keyless kit from a1electric and it works kind of like yours. If you lock the doors by using the switch on the door, then you will not be able to unlock it with the remote....but you can hit lock on the remote(which doesn't make a sound in the car) and then you can hit unlock on the remote and then it will work. I think that some aftermarket systems are not intergrated enough with the power locks to have a reverse effect(locking door with switch, and unlocking with remote) The keyless box doesn't know that you have locked the doors with the switch. It only gets its comands from the remote. So if the last signal received was "unlock," then the box still thinks the doors are unlocked. Therefore when you hit unlock on the remote(after locking with door switch) the system does nothing since it thinks the doors are all ready unlock.

Also, on my system you can lock the doors with the remote when the doors are open. It sounds like that on your system it might be some type of override feature to prevent you from locking your keys in the car.....just an idea

[lita_g]

I also tried locking with the fob after it wouldn't unlock and it still didn't unlock, so yes, I tried that, which makes it seem to me like they did something wrong in the installation, otherwise it would do what yours does. And when I lock the doors with the remote when the doors are open, it doesn't unlock them after they're closed either.

[b_hickman11]

I also tried locking with the fob after it wouldn't unlock and it still didn't unlock, so yes, I tried that, which makes it seem to me like they did something wrong in the installation, otherwise it would do what yours does. And when I lock the doors with the remote when the doors are open, it doesn't unlock them after they're closed either.

Sounds like you should have just bought the $35 kit and spent the 30 minutes it takes to put it on.

[CTScott]

I also tried locking with the fob after it wouldn't unlock and it still didn't unlock, so yes, I tried that, which makes it seem to me like they did something wrong in the installation, otherwise it would do what yours does. And when I lock the doors with the remote when the doors are open, it doesn't unlock them after they're closed either.

OK - We have the solution. After Sodium Duck and I finished installing the remote starter / Keyless Entry on his 2008 Liftback we were able to recreate the exact issue (unintentionally, as that is how all aftermarket and DIY wiring documents indicated to wire it). We found that the issue was that the unlock wire should not be the orange wire in the dirver's side kick panel, but rather the green wire. The image below indicates the correct wires to use for lock and unlock. When the orange wire is used all doors unlock with a single pulse, but if someone manually locks the door with the door button, you can not unlock them with the remote. When the correct wire is used (the green one) the driver's door unlocks with the first pulse (i.e. click of the unlock button of the remote) and the rest unlock on the second pulse. With both his Valet and my Ultra Start we were able to program the systems to put out two pulses on one click, as we both prefer a single click unlocking all doors.

So, give the picture below to your installer, and you will be all set...

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ctscott329/DoorLock-Unlock.jpg

[lita_g]

Sounds like you should have just bought the $35 kit and spent the 30 minutes it takes to put it on.

That's what I thought after finding out it was so cheap and that the dealership would refuse to install the toyota system. I guess I didn't think they would be so incompetent.

CTScott, thanks for the pix! I'll get a print of it and show those morons that it's not ok to assume something is fixed just by installing a new unit.

[Sodium Duck]

Well Lita, they're not exactly morons -- the directions indicated to use the incorrect wires from the start. That's why me and Scott had created the same issue for ourselves. They did exactly what they were supposed to, it's more or less the companies fault for putting out the wrong instructions.

[lita_g]

Well, I think I could call them morons considering that they immediately thought that just by changing the unit the problem would be fixed, and didn't even bother to test it after switching the unit 2 times. If they're not morons, then they are still missing something. Even if they followed incorrect instructions, after knowing about the issue and being requested to fix it 2 times, I think they should have at least tried some troubleshooting, instead of just leaving me stuck with a unit that not only has the same problem, but works worse than the first one they installed.

[Sodium Duck]

Well fortunately, all they have to do is change one simple wire over.

[lita_g]

Hopefully they'll understand that, otherwise I'll try to get my money back.

[b_hickman11]

Well Lita, they're not exactly morons -- the directions indicated to use the incorrect wires from the start. That's why me and Scott had created the same issue for ourselves. They did exactly what they were supposed to, it's more or less the companies fault for putting out the wrong instructions.

My kit told me to use the correct wires that you have listed in the picture. If I were you, I would contact the company that made your kit and tell them that their instructions are wrong.

[CTScott]

My kit told me to use the correct wires that you have listed in the picture. If I were you, I would contact the company that made your kit and tell them that their instructions are wrong.

Definitely. Save others the hassle. What brand was yours?

[b_hickman11]

Definitely. Save others the hassle. What brand was yours?


I got it from a1electric...cant remember right off hand what the brand was. I know it wasnt the Valet 712. a1electric sent me a wiring diagram that was specific to Toyotas.

[IllusionX]

i skipped alot of reading... but just so you guys know. if you lock the doors with the powerlocks (keyless or door switch), toyota has made it so that the door switch will not unlock any doors after the door has been closed. I last tried the system, it would still not unlock, even if you didn't use the switch to lock the doors, 1 min you have opened and closed the the door.

it is a security feature so that people cannot unlock the doors by sliding through the window and pushing the button.


so.... if your aftermarket keyless entry is wired to the switch, then it's done wrong.

btw, for those who haven't noticed. if your car come with factory power door locks. using your key to unlock from the driver's side TWICE unlocks all the doors, or passenger door with the key once locks/unlocks all the doors. and driver's side with key locks all the doors.
Those are probably the wires you should wired to (my guess is those wires Scott's picture is showing us)

[CTScott]

i skipped alot of reading... but just so you guys know. if you lock the doors with the powerlocks (keyless or door switch), toyota has made it so that the door switch will not unlock any doors after the door has been closed. I last tried the system, it would still not unlock, even if you didn't use the switch to lock the doors, 1 min you have opened and closed the the door.

it is a security feature so that people cannot unlock the doors by sliding through the window and pushing the button.


so.... if your aftermarket keyless entry is wired to the switch, then it's done wrong.

btw, for those who haven't noticed. if your car come with factory power door locks. using your key to unlock from the driver's side TWICE unlocks all the doors, or passenger door with the key once locks/unlocks all the doors. and driver's side with key locks all the doors.
Those are probably the wires you should wired to (my guess is those wires Scott's picture is showing us)


Correct on all accounts. And, your explanation answers the question as to why the system behaves as it does when the wrong wire is used.

[IllusionX]

that's because for years, see decades, keyless entries has been wired this way.. with the lock/unlock switches.

back in the days, keys did not activate the door locks. OH WELL!!!!

[lita_g]

Thanks everybody and thanks CTScott and Sodium Duck, just an update, I went to the dealership saturday because not only my issue continued with the Audiovox unit, but it had more problems, it even stopped locking at all, so I just told them to fix it or reimburse me. So they call me back like 5 hours later saying they couldn't fix it and that I will be getting a refund.

I feel better now, I'd rather not have keyless for a while than having one that aggravates me constantly. Now I just need to find a good unit to purchase once I get the refund, I'm thinking about getting not just keyless but maybe also an alarm, I'll search around the forum for additional info.

Thanks again everybody!

[IllusionX]

get a python or a viper alarm+keyless entry instead. that way, you also get a rebate on your insurance also.

[battleversiontc]

viper alarms i say are the best in my book and thats all i ever install

[zee]

I have come from the MR2 forums, searching the net for help on installing a Valet 712T into my MR2. It has factory security (TDS), but my TDSE security got corroded. I am trying to figure out how to wire into the factory 20pin TDS harness, since it probably has what I need for keyless entry.

I have the wiring diagrams for the 94-95 mr2's. The thing is, I have the factory alarm harness and TDS system accessible. Which means I have the 20-pin harness that connects to the factory TDS/TDSE system. Where I am lost is that the Valet 712t system has a bunch of wires that are used for unlocking and locking the doors. Here is a list of the wiring for the Kit:

712t Wiring
[Pin] [Color] [Description]
H1 RED +12V CONSTANT POWER INPUT
H2 BLUE (-)200 mA SECOND UNLOCK OUTPUT
H3 BLACK/WHITE-1 INPUT DOMELIGHT SUPERVISION RELAY #87
H4 BLACK/WHITE OUPUT OF DOMELIGHT SUPERVISION RELAY #30

H5 GREEN/BLACK LOCK # 30 COMMON OUTPUT
H6 WHITE/BLACK LOCK #87 NORMALLY CLOSED
H7 VIOLET/BLACK LOCK #87 NORMALLY OPEN (INPUT)
H8 BLUE/BLACK UNLOCK #30 COMMON (OUTPUT)
H9 VIOLET UNLOCK #87 NORMALLY OPEN (INPUT)

H10 WHITE (+/-)PARKING LIGHT FLASH OUTPUT
H11 BLACK (-) CHASSIS GROUND INPUT
H12 BROWN (-)HORN HONK OUTPUT
H13 LT. GREEN/BLACK FACTORY ALARM DISARM
H14 WHITE/BLUE (-)200 mA CHANNEL 3 VALIDITY OUTPUT
H15 YELLOW (+) SWITCHED IGNITION INPUT (ACC)
H16 ORANGE (-)500 mA GROUND-WHEN-ARMED OUTPUT

H17 BROWN/BLACK UNLOCK #87A NORMALLY CLOSED

H18 RED/WHITE (-)OUTPUT OF CHANNEL 2


Wiring on 20pin harness on MR2 (located in the passenger side B Panel, behind seatbelt):

[Pin] [Color] [Function] [Description]
1 Blue/White Trunk Key Unlock Switch
2 None
3 Green/Yellow (FLL) Not sure but guessing lock Left Door
4 None
5 White/Red (L/UL) Not sure but guess unlock all doors
6 Grey +12V ACC
7 White/Black (E) Not sure, but guessing Earth (Ground)
8 Red/White (-) Anti-Theft Siren
9 Green/Black (-) Steering Horn
10 Black/Yellow (-) Key Unlock Doors
11 Black (-) Key Lock Doors
12 Blue/Orange (FRL) Not sure but guessing Right door lock
13 Red/Green (CTY2) Not sure but connects to Front Trunk hood switch, Engine hood Switch, and Rear Trunk Light.

14 Red/White (CTY1) Not sure but connects to LH and RH door courtesy switches.
15 Blue (KSW) Not sure but manual says unlock warning switch
16 Yellow (IND) LED light
17 Red +12V Constant Power
18 Red/Black (SRLY) goes to Starter Relay Coil/Relay
19 None
20 Red/Yellow (RTR) Retract Relay Control (Headlights and Taillights)

Lastly, whats weird on the 712t is that the VIOLET and VIOLET/BLACK become ONE WIRE!!! It comes together at a fuse, then come out as VIOLET/BLACK only.

Now if a reallly skilled alarm guy can tell me if I can use this harness. If so, could you tell me what wires to connect to what? Also, should I leave the factory TDS connected, while this alarm is connected? I just learned the main ECU is in the passenger Side B Panel area, while my rusted/corroded ECU is an addition to the TDS ECU.

Thanks,
zee

[skigil]

I just want to add my story to this thread....

I had Keyless entry added to my bill as well when I purchased my brand new '08 LB Yaris. Well, turns out my dealership shunned me off to a 3rd party place to have it installed (Car Toys). While it took them forever to install it, I patiently strolled through their store and noticed I was paying $250 for keyless entry, but at Car Toys, the unit they were putting in only cost $110. So I figured something was amiss.

When the guy was finally done putting my keyless in (took him just over an hour). I of course tested it out and noticed it wasn't working correctly (I push any button and nothing locks/unlocks). Long story short, I went back to Car Toys and ended up talking to the guy that did the actual install. Turns out he was a super nice guy. Why was he a super nice guy? Because he did what I wanted! After he spewed me some bullshit about how the keyless was "installed the way factory keyless was installed," I gave him a big line about how he was full of bullshit and he should fix my problem. 5 min later, he programs my remote like his own car, and how it should be done.

So now I have an expensive keyless done the way I want it. When I hit the Unlock button, all doors (include the hatchback) unlock and the lights blink (inside and out). When I hit the Lock button, all the doors lock and the lights blink (inside and out). When I hit the Lock button again, The lights blink and the horn beeps. Oh, and the horn goes crazy when I hit my little yellow panic button.

Cheers.

[b_hickman11]

I just want to add my story to this thread....

I had Keyless entry added to my bill as well when I purchased my brand new '08 LB Yaris. Well, turns out my dealership shunned me off to a 3rd party place to have it installed (Car Toys). While it took them forever to install it, I patiently strolled through their store and noticed I was paying $250 for keyless entry, but at Car Toys, the unit they were putting in only cost $110. So I figured something was amiss.

When the guy was finally done putting my keyless in (took him just over an hour). I of course tested it out and noticed it wasn't working correctly (I push any button and nothing locks/unlocks). Long story short, I went back to Car Toys and ended up talking to the guy that did the actual install. Turns out he was a super nice guy. Why was he a super nice guy? Because he did what I wanted! After he spewed me some bullshit about how the keyless was "installed the way factory keyless was installed," I gave him a big line about how he was full of bullshit and he should fix my problem. 5 min later, he programs my remote like his own car, and how it should be done.

So now I have an expensive keyless done the way I want it. When I hit the Unlock button, all doors (include the hatchback) unlock and the lights blink (inside and out). When I hit the Lock button, all the doors lock and the lights blink (inside and out). When I hit the Lock button again, The lights blink and the horn beeps. Oh, and the horn goes crazy when I hit my little yellow panic button.

Cheers.

This sounds exactly like my system that I paid $35 for. It even has the feature where when you put the car in drive or in park, it will lock and unlock.

[Rain]

When I hit the Unlock button, all doors (include the hatchback) unlock and the lights blink (inside and out).

With my alarm, only the driver side doors open. And they told me that it's for safety reasons... which if I'm only saving myself is a pretty good excuse. I have to hit it twice for all the doors to open.

[yaris-me]

Unlocking with remote should always work! If it doesn't work then something is wrong. Go and talk to Toyota, not the dealer. The problem will not be resolved with the dealer. The dealer will go on screwing you.

I have a remote and it always works, no matter how it's locked.

[b_hickman11]

Unlocking with remote should always work! If it doesn't work then something is wrong. Go and talk to Toyota, not the dealer. The problem will not be resolved with the dealer. The dealer will go on screwing you.

I have a remote and it always works, no matter how it's locked.

Actually it depends on the quality of the system. Some systems are not high tech enough to do certain things. On some systems for example, if you unlock the doors using the door switch, some systems can not recognized that the door has been unlocked with using the switch. The brain of the system can only take commands from the remote and will not take commands from the door switch. Therefore even though the door is unlocked, the "brain" thinks the doors are still locked since the last remote command was the "lock" button.

[Reeves360]

You should have gone with the Toyota VIP system and installed it your self.

Always go factory alarm if you can.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Just installed the Valet 712T... What a sweet setup! Install was pretty easy... A super big thanks to DanQ and CTScott for their help. I have the double pulse setup to unlock all the doors on one push and have no issues with manual/remote locking or unlocking... you do have to hold the button for awhile to get the panic feature going though... :eek:

[Revsson]

Just installed the Valet 712T... What a sweet setup! Install was pretty easy... A super big thanks to DanQ and CTScott for their help. I have the double pulse setup to unlock all the doors on one push and have no issues with manual/remote locking or unlocking... you do have to hold the button for awhile to get the panic feature going though... :eek:

I'm not sure, but I would suspect that the reason you have to hold the
button for a while is so that you don't accidentally push it for a moment
when you didn't mean to....such as in your pants pocket.

I have the factory system, and mistakenly pressed the button at 3 am. :redface:
Needless to say, a few of my neighbors weren't impressed. :smile:

[RUFFSTUFF]

I'm not sure, but I would suspect that the reason you have to hold the
button for a while is so that you don't accidentally push it for a moment
when you didn't mean to....such as in your pants pocket.

I have the factory system, and mistakenly pressed the button at 3 am. :redface:
Needless to say, a few of my neighbors weren't impressed. :smile:

Yeah, on my Expedition, as soon as you hit the panic button it's game over...!

[CTScott]

Yeah, on my Expedition, as soon as you hit the panic button it's game over...!

On my Xterra as well. The panic is trying to get to the key fob fast enough to stop your ears from bleeding. I ended up taking the remote apart and putting a piece of tape under the contact for the panic button.

[RUFFSTUFF]

On my Xterra as well. The panic is trying to get to the key fob fast enough to stop your ears from bleeding. I ended up taking the remote apart and putting a piece of tape under the contact for the panic button.


LOL

Yeah that panic button is right next to the rear glass release button... Thanks Ford!

[IllusionX]

On my Xterra as well. The panic is trying to get to the key fob fast enough to stop your ears from bleeding. I ended up taking the remote apart and putting a piece of tape under the contact for the panic button.

I need some help regarding the panic button. The headlights flashes when the panic is hit. Since i installed HIDs, i stopped using that button. Not using it is not a problem, but i do not want valet parking guys using it. Sometimes, i have no choice but to let the valet drive my car :(

[CTScott]

I need some help regarding the panic button. The headlights flashes when the panic is hit. Since i installed HIDs, i stopped using that button. Not using it is not a problem, but i do not want valet parking guys using it. Sometimes, i have no choice but to let the valet drive my car :(

Are you using the 712T or another alarm/keyless entry system? You can either disable it on the remote, disable it on the module, or move the flash output to something else (like the parking lights).