To boost/improve Yaris, or move on....?

[OTB]

So I'd appreciate your input on this subject, and especially those of you who took the turbo plunge.

My goal: a reliable lightweight car for street transportation that will still give cooper S cars a run for their money in street class time attack. I have a MR-S race car, and don't have intentions of making my street car into a very competitive car. I do, however have a goal of making it road course worthy (preventing oil and fuel starvation, coolant overtemps, brake fade.)

I own: 2007 Yaris USA 3-door with no options, good quality springs, struts/shocks, rear swaybar. I have owned some much "nicer" cars in my day, but I'd have to say this is probably the best street car I've owned. It is a blast to drive, but obviously with a couple limitations. 1) power-I don't need a ton of it, but it doesn't even have enough power to maintain throttle through corners on the track. 2)suspension-front strut tower mounting (or lack thereof) and the rear end "is what it is"

I used to own a turbo cooper s (stock with good suspension) that my buddy and I would both drive in different time attack events, and we did ok. The car was lots of fun, surprisingly strong, and a pain to work on. I unfortunately had a incident with a couple deer and no more cooper.

My question is....to meet my goals above, do I pursue another cooper, or make the yaris a better weapon?

Proposed Yaris plan: Zage turbo kit to produce approx 150hp for some reliability. I think most guys tune for more boost/power than that, but I'm not interested in pushing the limits of tuning and 1nz strength. Better suspension (have custom lower than MI springs made for my tokico reds, or go to damping adjustable coilovers). Limited slip. I bought my Yaris as a salvage (but actually tip top, just a front bumper cover replacement really) for a good price. Zage kit + management (FIC and PnP harness) + tuning + monitoring gauges + lsd+unplanned BS in reality will cost about $4500. Do I have to kiss my front and rear oem brakes goodbye?

Potential other cars: another turbo mini, rsx-s (great setup but hard to find one that some kid hasn't turned into a shitmobile), and I just can't stand the mazdaspeed 3 so don't even go there. If there was an Abarth 500 for sale in the US, I would probably just get one. Turbo cobalt is a real performance car, but heavy....everything is so heavy nowadays. I'm a Colin Chapman kind of guy. All of my other options weigh 300+lbs more than the Yaris.

Back to the question-could the boosted and sorted 1nz Yaris fit my goals (and do it at 1000's less than a used turbo mini)? Would I be able to carefully setup and tune the car, then mostly just perform maintenance, not a never-ending research project?

Thanks for your input!!!

[yarisugi]

Fiat sells the 500 (though Abarth name was dropped) in the USA now. Personally, I'd say the Mini would be a better choice if comparing the two even though the Mini costs much more. Since you already own a Yaris, I don't know if the mods you mentioned would be comparable to a Mini - Maybe the member Jason@SportsCar might be who to ask? The Forced Induction section or the Tracking, Racing, Auto-X section of this site might provide a better read for your goals. A few on this site already have the zage kit and the other alternative would be the blitz supercharger for adequate boost. They could chime in, too.

[OTB]

I guess I should have said "Abarth 500 essesse" above. The regular Fiat 500....no thanks.

I'll try to lure some opinions from the forced induction and track sections-thanks.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by OTB

So I'd appreciate your input on this subject, and especially those of you who took the turbo plunge.

My goal: a reliable lightweight car for street transportation that will still give cooper S cars a run for their money in street class time attack. I have a MR-S race car, and don't have intentions of making my street car into a very competitive car. I do, however have a goal of making it road course worthy (preventing oil and fuel starvation, coolant overtemps, brake fade.)

I own: 2007 Yaris USA 3-door with no options, good quality springs, struts/shocks, rear swaybar. I have owned some much "nicer" cars in my day, but I'd have to say this is probably the best street car I've owned. It is a blast to drive, but obviously with a couple limitations. 1) power-I don't need a ton of it, but it doesn't even have enough power to maintain throttle through corners on the track. 2)suspension-front strut tower mounting (or lack thereof) and the rear end "is what it is"

I used to own a turbo cooper s (stock with good suspension) that my buddy and I would both drive in different time attack events, and we did ok. The car was lots of fun, surprisingly strong, and a pain to work on. I unfortunately had a incident with a couple deer and no more cooper.

My question is....to meet my goals above, do I pursue another cooper, or make the yaris a better weapon?

Proposed Yaris plan: Zage turbo kit to produce approx 150hp for some reliability. I think most guys tune for more boost/power than that, but I'm not interested in pushing the limits of tuning and 1nz strength. Better suspension (have custom lower than MI springs made for my tokico reds, or go to damping adjustable coilovers). Limited slip. I bought my Yaris as a salvage (but actually tip top, just a front bumper cover replacement really) for a good price. Zage kit + management (FIC and PnP harness) + tuning + monitoring gauges + lsd+unplanned BS in reality will cost about $4500. Do I have to kiss my front and rear oem brakes goodbye?

Potential other cars: another turbo mini, rsx-s (great setup but hard to find one that some kid hasn't turned into a shitmobile), and I just can't stand the mazdaspeed 3 so don't even go there. If there was an Abarth 500 for sale in the US, I would probably just get one. Turbo cobalt is a real performance car, but heavy....everything is so heavy nowadays. I'm a Colin Chapman kind of guy. All of my other options weigh 300+lbs more than the Yaris.

Back to the question-could the boosted and sorted 1nz Yaris fit my goals (and do it at 1000's less than a used turbo mini)? Would I be able to carefully setup and tune the car, then mostly just perform maintenance, not a never-ending research project?

Thanks for your input!!!

Only you know what will make you happy... But I would start with the basics and work up.

First, better suspension. Get a set of quality coil-overs. The Tokicos are not track worthy, they are an OK street shock - hint, stay away from any adjustable shock that combines compression and rebound adjustments, you will never get the damping curve where you want it. Stick with rebound adjustable shocks unless you really know what you are doing, you can really screw up a car playing with the compression settings.

Swaybars: if you get the springs and shocks right you wont need to bolt a 15lb weight to your rear axle.

Brakes: the stock brakes are overkill for the weight of the Yaris. Upgrade the front pads and leave the rest alone. If your car has a lot of miles, or the lines look suspect, get the stainless ones. We only added brake cooling ducts when we went to the 13" wheels because the airflow is so restricted, we have still never had fade - and this is with a 40min race, not a few hot laps.

Trans: this makes the car, you must get an LSD. If you have the money get the OS Giken, if you want to go cheaper get the TRD unit. BUT while you are in there install the xB 4.312 final drive, it really wakes the car up. You will already be paying the labor (or doing the work) to pull the stock gears when you install the LSD, it is not much more work to swap the gears.

Tires/wheels: 13" wheels make the car a rocket. They give you an even shorter final drive, lower the cg (and help get the roof down out of the air), they are also a lot lighter than the big stuff. Another advantage is you can run a wide 13" tire without it bashing the fenders, no need to cut or roll.

Bolt-ons: Get the header, intake and ecu. You can really unlock some power.

That alone should be enough to take out any stockish Cooper S. If you are not satisfied at that point you have all the basics covered, and now you add the FI.

As far as a radiator, the Mishimoto xB unit pretty much drops right in (you have to drill two holes in the core support), and we used the xB hose set.

[HTM Yaris]

As far as a radiator, the Mishimoto xB unit pretty much drops right in (you have to drill two holes in the core support), and we used the xB hose set.

Just in time

[HTM Yaris]

I have seen more than a few Abarths here in SC ...

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by HTM Yaris

I have seen more than a few Abarths here in SC ...

They are all over the place... It takes more than a set of stickers to make a car a model that is not sold here. Yet. There are certainly "tribute" cars out there. Fiat even lets you order the 500 with some stickers.

[HTM Yaris]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

They are all over the place... It takes more than a set of stickers to make a car a model that is not sold here. Yet. There are certainly "tribute" cars out there. Fiat even lets you order the 500 with some stickers.

Yeah , I didn't get fooled by a set of stickers on a Yaris .

On second thought maybe I was suffering from heat induced delusions on that particular day . I was fishing all day and the sun was brutal . Maybe that wasn't a couple Chrysler Execs that I had a conversation with . You are probably right ., it was just some older guys who who decided to "rice up" ( or maybe the term should be "linguini up" , since it is Italian ) their Fiat 500's with some stupid little scorpion hood emblems . Maybe I was hearing things when they said there were 4 Abarths ( I have only seen 3, and to be honest maybe the third Abarth was just a plain 500 , it was a good distance away ) in Myrtle Beach , South Carolina.

Seriously Jason , with your vast experience with cars you have never heard or seen or known anyone that has driven new car models on public roads before they went on sale here in the USA ?

[ROCKLANDTOYOTA]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Only you know what will make you happy... But I would start with the basics and work up.

First, better suspension. Get a set of quality coil-overs. The Tokicos are not track worthy, they are an OK street shock - hint, stay away from any adjustable shock that combines compression and rebound adjustments, you will never get the damping curve where you want it. Stick with rebound adjustable shocks unless you really know what you are doing, you can really screw up a car playing with the compression settings.

Swaybars: if you get the springs and shocks right you wont need to bolt a 15lb weight to your rear axle.

Brakes: the stock brakes are overkill for the weight of the Yaris. Upgrade the front pads and leave the rest alone. If your car has a lot of miles, or the lines look suspect, get the stainless ones. We only added brake cooling ducts when we went to the 13" wheels because the airflow is so restricted, we have still never had fade - and this is with a 40min race, not a few hot laps.

Trans: this makes the car, you must get an LSD. If you have the money get the OS Giken, if you want to go cheaper get the TRD unit. BUT while you are in there install the xB 4.312 final drive, it really wakes the car up. You will already be paying the labor (or doing the work) to pull the stock gears when you install the LSD, it is not much more work to swap the gears.

Tires/wheels: 13" wheels make the car a rocket. They give you an even shorter final drive, lower the cg (and help get the roof down out of the air), they are also a lot lighter than the big stuff. Another advantage is you can run a wide 13" tire without it bashing the fenders, no need to cut or roll.

Bolt-ons: Get the header, intake and ecu. You can really unlock some power.

That alone should be enough to take out any stockish Cooper S. If you are not satisfied at that point you have all the basics covered, and now you add the FI.

As far as a radiator, the Mishimoto xB unit pretty much drops right in (you have to drill two holes in the core support), and we used the xB hose set.

what ECU are we to use for just BOLT-ONS???

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by ROCKLANDTOYOTA

what ECU are we to use for just BOLT-ONS???

Anything that will let you past the rev limiter, and control the VVTi.

We had a custom harness made that allows us to piggy back an AEM EMS series 2.

There are other options out there, none of which are cheap. But without ECU control any mods, including FI, are compromised.

[Blown_xa]

Good advice was given for sure. If you go boost, keep it at a 40whp gain and no more if you want it reliable on a stock motor for track abuse. I say 40whp gain instead of a specific number because dynos vary. Get a baseline number, and use that same dyno later for reference. I popped rods many times at 150whp (our dyno) and it is never fun to invest $500 entry fee and go home on a tow truck. I must have done 6 Time Attacks at 130whp and never had issues. It was enough power to podium many times in street fwd, as long as you are a decent driver and you have everything else dialed in.

[OTB]

Originally Posted by Blown_xa

Good advice was given for sure. If you go boost, keep it at a 40whp gain and no more if you want it reliable on a stock motor for track abuse. I say 40whp gain instead of a specific number because dynos vary. Get a baseline number, and use that same dyno later for reference. I popped rods many times at 150whp (our dyno) and it is never fun to invest $500 entry fee and go home on a tow truck. I must have done 6 Time Attacks at 130whp and never had issues. It was enough power to podium many times in street fwd, as long as you are a decent driver and you have everything else dialed in.

thanks! I think alot of us wanted this info

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Trans: this makes the car, you must get an LSD. If you have the money get the OS Giken, if you want to go cheaper get the TRD unit. BUT while you are in there install the xB 4.312 final drive, it really wakes the car up. You will already be paying the labor (or doing the work) to pull the stock gears when you install the LSD, it is not much more work to swap the gears.

What parts would have to be swapped out for this? I'm assuming that it's not just the drive/driven pair for 5th gear (circled in red), but a different gear that mates to the LSD or driveshafts? I'm having a hard time getting a good picture of the gearbox from these parts diagrams.



Looking at the C50 repair manual gives much better illustrations, so I'm thinking it's actually the gear that attaches to the differential? If so, then wouldn't the entire output shaft also have to be replaced?

[Bluevitz-rs]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Looking at the C50 repair manual gives much better illustrations, so I'm thinking it's actually the gear that attaches to the differential? If so, then wouldn't the entire output shaft also have to be replaced?

Yes.

[cali yaris]

Jason has a good answer, although I swear by my sway bar; seems to work really well with my set up.

Add a light flywheel when you put in the diff and final drive.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Jason has a good answer, although I swear by my sway bar; seems to work really well with my set up.

Add a light flywheel when you put in the diff and final drive.

How the hell did I forget the flywheel.

Your rear bar works because your rear shocks are to long. Shorten them up and they will pick the tire up, without the weight of the bar. Although, its likely not a very street-friendly setup.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

The question here is undoubtedly what you are aiming for. A Yaris with a Zage kit isn't really going to be comparable to all the other cars you mentioned. If I were in your position though, I would turbo the Yaris. It's a crap ton cheaper than everything else being considered and the Zage kit really brings the car to life. 150ish hp may sound low but on such a lightweight car, as you mentioned, it's kinda a big deal. At this point, there's now a couple of people who have used the Zage kit so a lot of research has been done already (I wish I could have had that luxury).

I know you're talking about tracking it, but I can at least testify as to how awesome of a daily driver the Yaris is turboed. It's so much damn fun, and I'm still achieving 30+ MPGs.

[OTB]

I appreciate the input. I'll have a look at 4.xx final drive and lsd units. The flywheel feels so light on the stock yaris (heel-toes are just a tiny blip), I hadn't even considered there's lighter ones out there. Since the Yaris makes no torque out of the hole, does the lighter flywheel make streetability really suck (like starting up a hill, etc.)?

Suspension wise-I don't think I could handle the spring rates necessary for pitching the boat anchor (swaybar), due to the car being a street car. Damping adjustable coilovers w/spring rates similar to my MI springs would probably be my route.

Brakes-good to hear! Just like my MR-S, with the right pads, the stock brakes pretty much kick ass.

Wheels-I'll explore the options. 13" would be cool, especially with a smaller overall diameter tire, but for street class time attack, I'm not sure I'll find 13" compatible tires (RE-11, RT-615, Kumho XS, Star Spec, etc.) Race tires seem to be more available in funky sizes.

Again, thanks guys, I certainly studied up on Garm's posts, Jason's article in SportsCar, and Focus's install thread.

I'll try to have a good look at Jason's car at Miller and take some notes.