Didn't buy; awkward shifting?

[drmitch]

Hey all

Well, I did not get the Yaris hatch this weekend. I test drove the red 5 spd and once again was struck by how awkward the shifting is, compared to the Miata. It's not that the shifter itself isn't good; it's just that the reach is odd, especially into 2nd gear. I suppose one could get used to it but...does anyone else find the shifting awkward? In the hour stop-and-go daily commute home, that could get old fast. For that reason, I'm reconsidering the A/T but...not sure. A local dealer had the A/T for $11,988 this past weekend but I didn't know about it until this a.m.

I'm also considering the Smart ForTwo...I'd love to have a back seat after 7 yrs in the Miata but...the Smart has such a fun, unique look and the word is it's going to achieve close to 50 mpg fwy, 40 city...official numbers are 40 fwy but general consensus is it'll do better than that.

Thoughts?

[BailOut]

The shifting issue is a personal one, so only you can decide.

The Smart Fortwo is a horrible purchase. It has no back seat, the same emissions as the Yaris, the same fuel economy as the Yaris, 1 less star on its crash rating, etc., but costs more than a Yaris. Not exactly a lot of bang for the buck.

Let's also not forget that Smart is owned by Daimler-Chrylser-Benz, which is in the process of being bought by Cerebrus, who has already promised to shake up what's left of that conglomerate as soon as the transaction completes. No one knows what their stance on the Smart line will be. They may just eliminate it, leaving you with some half-assed 3rd party service contract in place of a warranty.

[Black Yaris]

you get used to the shifting... plus there are short shifters that help
http://www.twmperformance.com/shorts...rtshifters.htm
or the linkage short shifter
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/sho...hlight=NST+SSK
either/or improve the shifting experience for minimal amount of money

[ChinoCharles]

I also found the placement of the stock shifter on the Yaris a little odd. I felt like I had to reach too far upward to get a grip, so I chopped her down. However, I could have and would have got used to the stock shifter.

I'm not buying the hype about the Smart. With semi trailers, Escalades, Sierras, and all the other gargantuan vehicles on US roads, I don't feel like the Smart makes any sense. Even the Yaris is pushing it. I don't care how many stars they give it... logic tells me you don't want to be in a car that small during an accident.

If I were you I would strongly consider the A/T. Sure, it isn't as much fun, but it sounds like you're looking for a commuter anyway.

[ALY]

I also considered the smart for two; however, I opted for the Yaris for the following reasons:

Lower Interest Rate
Lower Monthly Payments
More room if I need it (I came from a 2 seater as well)
More Power (Smart = 0-60 in 19.2 sec)
TOYOTA Reliability
Toyota Maintenance is cheapest in industry

After taking the lower monthly payments of the Yaris and both cars (expected Fuel Economy)... The Yaris worked out to be $5 cheaper per month.

I did all this research/ purchasing prior to working for TOYOTA. Also Compare (In Canada) the number of used Yaris vs number of Smart Cars.

As for Manual Transmission... I found it tough to get used to as well; however, after a week, you will be a pro.

[Black Yaris]

if you are thinking about a smart watch this and think again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

[kurokoma-kun]

The shift throw in Miata is one of the shortest ever, anything seems long in comparison. I got used to it, but am still putting a short shift kit on there.

Other different thing about shifting is your angle of approach is different; Miata has cockpit style seat position, Yaris has very upright, dining room chair type position

Also, the Miata has a direct linkage shifter whereas the Yaris has "fly by wire" type. This is never gonna give you the same responsiveness.

The thing that bugged me most was the friction point on the clutch. In Miata it's up really high, in Yaris it's like 1/2" off the floor. For me this meant a lot of tire squeal on launch, especially with those shitty stock tires; for others it means lots of stalling. Again, you get used to it quickly.

But if you have had a Miata for a while I'm sure you are not afraid to get the revs way up there--you really can flog the Yaris' thrashy lil engine if'n you want to

[kimona]

I owned 2 Miatas. The Yaris stick/clutch doesn't even begin to compare to the Miata.

There was a time, not too long ago, when I wouldn't even consider buying a car with an automatic transmission. But, the Yaris changed my mind; it's my frirst small car with an automatic, and I love it!

I first drove the Yaris/Vitz (both stick and auto) in Japan ( I lived there for 6 years). I fell in love with the car's design and function then, but didn't care much for the stick/clutch. Most Japanese, even the young guys, opt for the automatic.

Later, I test drove the Yaris here in the States several times before buying.
I really made an effort to sell myself on the stick, and I kept returning to the dealer to try one more time before making the final decision. The automatic won out.

The automatic performs extremely well up-shifting and down-shifting smoothly at precisely the right points for a daily driver. Plus, you can manual shift it if you so desire. It's quick, quiet, and responsive.

Under ideal conditions the auto will get just 1 mile per gallon less than the stick. However, I believe most drivers will obtain better mileage with the automatic tranny for 2 reasons: (1) most drivers are not highly skilled with a manual shift, regardless how long they've been driving a stick; and (2) many drivers with a stick tend to drive the car a little harder and therefore use more gas.

Sure, you can make a few good mods to improve the Yaris' manual shift, but it will never be a great driving experience, and it will never be a Miata.

If it's a toss up between manual vs. auto, then go for the automatic.

[Motorhead6T5]

I drove mustang 5 speeds my whole life so the forward shifter position didn't bother me much,is night and day to my 05 stang though,I loved the placement on that shifter and it never needed a short throw.

But I got use to the yaris,even the steering wheel thats realy far forward for me(6'1). On short on ramps I couldn't imagine trying to get up to speed in time with an auto. The 5speed at wide open throttle is just enough to not get killed somtimes lol. In town autos are king though.

[kimona]

Hey, Motorhead, I've think we've had this conversation before. You're obviously a driver, and in fact, so am I.

But, we agreed before that most are not skilled stick shift drivers, and for them the Yaris would perform better in all respects with an automatic than stick.

We also discuused the fact that the manual shift Yaris is indeed 1 second quicker in the 1/4 mile than the automatic, but this is for drivers skilled on the track. For most, the automatic will prove faster (and more fuel efficient than the stick).

So, let's not mislead those just looking for a good daily driver. Let's not make it sound like the car can't get out of it's own way with the automatic because that just isn't so. With a heavy foot, the automatic transmission will perform every bit as well (probably better) than the manual shift... for most drivers anyway.

[WRBlue]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Let's also not forget that Smart is owned by Daimler-Chrylser-Benz, which is in the process of being bought by Cerebrus, who has already promised to shake up what's left of that conglomerate as soon as the transaction completes. No one knows what their stance on the Smart line will be. They may just eliminate it, leaving you with some half-assed 3rd party service contract in place of a warranty.

DaimlerChrylser, as the company used to be known, has only sold the Chrysler Group, which only includes Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler. All other portions of Diamler stay German - Mercedes, Maybach, Freightliner, MitsubishiFuso, Sterling, and Smart. The new, Chrylser-less Daimler will be known as Daimler AG.

Smart cars, which are not being sold to any other manufacturer, will be sold through United Auto Group dealers. United Auto is Penske's dealer network. Its huge (253 dealerships), and based in Bloomfield Hills. You can see Chrysler's HQ from their design center - I interviewed there last summer.

[kimona]

I drove a Smart for about a week when I lived in Taiwan. Cute, nimble, and easy to park, but it makes the Yaris look and feel like a big car!

The Smart reminded me of a sewing machine!

For my money, I'd stick with Toyota value and reliability.

[sherryberry]

wow the Smart is just way too small for comfort. I'd be afraid what would happen in an accident to the person. I cannot see someone surviving the crash that was shown in that youtube vid.. or else they'll survive with their legs chopped off.

[roxy84]

well, there must be a large number of super skilled 5 speed yaris drivers out there. i just dont think you have to be particularly skilled to get better fuel economy with a manual tranny. when i researched every possible forum discussing the yaris before buying one, the vast majority of drivers getting the real high mileages were driving the 5 speed. i think anyone who has driven a stick most of their life will better the auto fuel economy by more that 1 mpg. my last 2 tanks at 60/40 highway/city were 42.6 mpg and 42.4 mpg, and the car has only 980 miles, so its not even broken in.

fueleconomy.gov users show closer to a 2 mpg disparity between a stick and auto yaris.

agreed, if you bought the stick so you can thrash the little yaris engine or you dont know how to pick the proper shift points for optimal fuel economy, you may not beat the auto tranny mileage.

[drmitch]

Very interesting and helpful replies; thank you. In the video, I doubt we'd be in very good shape in that 70 mph crash in EITHER the Smart or the Yaris...anyway, I'm contacting the dealer who had the auto trans for $11988 to see if they'll still give me that price. If so, I may take the plunge after all...

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by WRBlue

DaimlerChrylser, as the company used to be known, has only sold the Chrysler Group, which only includes Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler. All other portions of Diamler stay German - Mercedes, Maybach, Freightliner, MitsubishiFuso, Sterling, and Smart. The new, Chrylser-less Daimler will be known as Daimler AG.

Smart cars, which are not being sold to any other manufacturer, will be sold through United Auto Group dealers. United Auto is Penske's dealer network. Its huge (253 dealerships), and based in Bloomfield Hills. You can see Chrysler's HQ from their design center - I interviewed there last summer.

I wanted to point that out as well... I just did not want to start another fight between BailOut and I

[TLyttle]

I had no problem with the stick itself, placement is always a matter or personal preference. I own a Mustang and an Ominous, no problem with either, and expected the same with the Yaris. Wrong.

The Yaris box/linkage works fine for me, better than the previous vehicles, but it took me a while to get used to the clutch. Now the clutch is broken in, it is fine.

It is the damn throttle that is so vague! Wave your foot over it, and you got another 1,000 rpm, actually touch it, and away it goes, and I hate that. I considered a tougher throttle spring, we'll see what the dealer says. For now, it is the ONLY complaint that I have about the vehicle.

In very many ways, the Yaris reminds me of my old Morris: just plain fun to drive.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by WRBlue

DaimlerChrylser, as the company used to be known, has only sold the Chrysler Group, which only includes Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler. All other portions of Diamler stay German - Mercedes, Maybach, Freightliner, MitsubishiFuso, Sterling, and Smart. The new, Chrylser-less Daimler will be known as Daimler AG.

Smart cars, which are not being sold to any other manufacturer, will be sold through United Auto Group dealers. United Auto is Penske's dealer network. Its huge (253 dealerships), and based in Bloomfield Hills. You can see Chrysler's HQ from their design center - I interviewed there last summer.

Good to know, and thanks for the corrections. That's what I get for listening to hearsay on that one.

I'm glad that Chrysler's well-earned fall won't be taking much else down with it.