S/C owners: collecting information

[kurokoma-kun]

oh you hurt my feelinks

Not to nitpick, but you used a little "e" in that one word... don't you know by now my title is Mistress of Extraordinary Evil?

[KCALB SIRAY]

off topic

KK, will you make the Nashville Show by chance?

[LtNoogie]

Originally Posted by kurokoma-kun

Q: could Blitz possibly increase this kit's amount of AWESOME???

A: after autocrossing it yesterday, I'm gonna say this adjustment is not necessary

KK, please post another thread in the Racing forum about the autocrossing. I can't wait to read what you think about the response, especially coming out of a turn.

[cali yaris]

to summarize:
from a standstill, open loop takes 5-8 seconds.
if moving (only at freeway speeds?), open loop happens instantly.

Does that sound like the ECU responding differently to the same signal? Or is the fuel controller capable of sending more than one signal to the ECU?

***Is the fuel controller wired into the ECU where it COULD control closed/open loop condition?

[gwasabi]

I don't know CRAP about supercharged or turbocharged cars or cars in general but if you have a lean reading can't you just upgrade your fuel injectors to put more fuel into the engine? just a thought for all the supercharged guys out there. I don't think modding your intake will matter for that matter because the amount of air you get from a stock intake to a aftermarket intake doesn't really change THAT much to even give you a big difference (Unless you have the 1zz TB). Theoretically, the bigger pipe means more air but it still have to go through what ever TB size you have, an am intake only changed the rate at how fast the air gets to the TB from the intake inlet.... Thus the really little increase in horsepower(honestly like 1hp if anything). As far as CAI goes, it's generally the same as a regular intake except theoretically your putting in colder air since its from the bottom but honestly in my opinion on a hot day, you'll actually be sucking in much hotter air because the asphault would be hotter and all....

[Nexus1155]

Yeah, you can add another injector but if you look at it like this. You have 4 injectors firing already and it reads a rich condition, it lowers injector latency to an adequate level to meet the stoich condition. Now if you just add an extra injector not hooked up to the ecu, the O2 sensor will still see it from the readings and even still adjust it. Or atleast thats what I am assuming as it reads off the O2 sensor?

And about it taking way too long to enter open loop from a standstill vs. on the highway, you have to understand that there is alot of criteria it has to meet before it triggers open loop. The main reason it probably comes on quick on the highway is probably that the engine is already under a susbstantial amount of load etc etc

[gwasabi]

Well, I've been reading peter's and noog's post about how they are getting lean condition and I just thought about the idea since I've been reading around and no one really bothered to upgrade their injectors lol just my 2 cents

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

***Is the fuel controller wired into the ECU where it COULD control closed/open loop condition?

Three important items the fuel controller is wired to are the accelerator pedal position sensor (VPA terminal on ECM), MAF (VG), and engine rpm sensors (terminal differs by controller model--this is camell's legendary mutant pink wire ), all of which (afaik) are used along with other sensors to determine when to trigger open/closed loop, among other things.

The ECM and fuel controller are obviously intended to act in concert somehow, but as for exactly how data is shared between them seems to be an open question at the moment... the ECM is no doubt still responsible for the actual functions of engine control, but does anyone here know for sure how it is "informed" of conditions by the fuel controller, and vice versa? Or is it only a one-way relationship, ECM --> fuel controller? Blitz must know, so since this thread is supposed to be gathering info for their use, I think we ask these questions only in the hope that they will get some insight into our concerns, if not to try to solve some things on our own.

As for my own car, when AFR goes rich and open loop is triggered does seem to vary according to engine rpm and load as well as throttle positon, at least. I've only noticed the two distinct two states under boost so far--what I guess I could call "town" and "highway"--all I'd like to know is if this is normal? Judging only by my own impressions of performance it certainly feels that way but based on what camell is asking I

[Nexus1155]

well yeah if you put in larger injectors you might be able to fool the ecu a bit like the TC ones, its worth a shot. If it still thinks the yaris injectors are in there it will be dumping more fuel than necessary and confuse the ecu hopefully not triggering a CEL

[gwasabi]

worth a try hehe

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by camelll

KK when you are at a stop light and floor it how long does it take your car to go into open loop? Just watch your a/f gauge when it goes to 11-12 you are in open loop.

When I am at a stoplight and floor it, it takes approximately 2 seconds for the police pursuit car to fly out from his place of concealment in the bushes! He appears immediately in my rearview mirror, and only takes a few minutes to nail me for a $280 ticket

JUST KIDDING here's how it really goes:

If I go from standstill to wot, I am seeing 11s-12s AFR as soon as I hit 6-7-8 psi (my max). Typically this involves throttle position of 50 or higher, what I think of as "wot." However, this also happens if I reach those psi's at slightly lower throttle position, under heavy acceleration (merging into faster traffic while going up a hill, lets say).

Just a related note, not the wot situation: If I do not exceed 3-4 psi, my AFR may remain at 13-14-15 indefinitely, EXCEPT in "highway" mode as mentioned before.

This is based on so few tests though, I've only had those gauges in for a week, so I'll keep watching as closely as I can while avoiding getting arrested

[LtNoogie]

Originally Posted by gwasabi

Well, I've been reading peter's and noog's post about how they are getting lean condition and I just thought about the idea since I've been reading around and no one really bothered to upgrade their injectors lol just my 2 cents

I picked up a set of four used tC injectors at lunchtime today.

They'll go on Friday. That'll give me a day and a half before I have to autox with them on Sunday.

[PETERPOOP]

Originally Posted by kurokoma-kun

If I go from standstill to wot, I am seeing 11s-12s AFR as soon as I hit 6-7-8 psi (my max).

You are seeing those AFR numbers sooner than camell and I. It isn't until we hit open loop till we see the 11-12. When you hit your 6-7-8 psi, is that when it is open loop? Did you check that

[kurokoma-kun]

After watching for a week now it looks like the 11s-12s always go hand in hand with open loop on my car.

It does take a couple seconds or longer for the scangauge to show that, but it takes that long for it to show any change!... Garm was saying it's display is slow compared to our a/f and other gauges.

[LtNoogie]

Mike, did you say that the fuel controller is connected to RPM? One difference is that when you are on the freeway, you are already up at around 2,000 RPM when you hit the gas for WOT.

When you're at a stop, unless you're doing some kind of launch control, you are at an idle of 700 or so.

This is just an observation.

[kurokoma-kun]

From a standstill, if I mash the gas pedal, as I accelerate and build boost pressure, AFR goes to 11-12 as soon as I get to about 5 psi. How long that takes seems to depend on how long it takes to get to that boost level.

To be able to say what happens at "wot" (aka wide open throttle), I feel I must check the scangauge, as it is what shows me tps/throttle position.

This is why I say open loop seems to depend on boost (and maybe other things as well) rather than tps alone, because at certain times (punching it from a dead stop going up steep hill for example) as soon as I hit 5 psi AFR will go rich at a tps of 30, not what I would normally call wot.

Normally, at part-open throttle, and boost pressures of less than 4 psi... this is when I'm seeing 14s-15s.

The EXCEPTION to ALL of this is at ~65+ miles an hour, when it goes rich at 1 psi, again, regardless of throttle position.



But honestly y'all, wtf do i know? All statements are pure speculation on my part. It's an intricate system, and beyond the basics I haven't the faintest idea how it really works. All this reading and learning and discussion is fun, yet I sure do wish a real supercharger expert would step in and just tell us what's normal! My curiousity must be satisfied... I say we kidnap one of the Blitz engineers and make him talk!

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by camelll

What cai are you using? short ram or true cai?

I have an AEM cai, the type with the filter in the fender. Stock MAF mounts in this in more or less stock position (oriented same direction in the pipe in other words)

Originally Posted by camelll

KK the only difference we have at this point is the amount of time it takes to go open loop from a stand still. Other than that we are spot on with other conditions and readings.

Well and who knows, the fact that mine is manual and yours automatic may account for that difference. Or it may be that I just haven't studied mine long enough to be able to describe it accurately.

But yeah, since our cars are working so similar, though installed many months apart and with different style fuel controllers, I agree they seem to represent Blitz's target for "normal" operation. (i hope)

[whooppee777]

i know this has been covered before but whats the deal with the random vibrations i hear when my a/c is on? i turned it on for the first time yesterday and got the vibrations/noises