Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > Performance Modifications
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2018, 07:04 PM   #1
SlowVitzRS
 
Drives: 2005 Vitz RS Manual
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 12
1NZFE - the most boring engine?

I currently drive a JDM 2005 Toyota Vitz RS 5-speed manual as my daily driver.
I find it hating more and more every day I drive it :(.
There will be a point where whatever the fuel savings over my other car will not be worth from mental health point of view.

Scroll down for the actual questions if too lazy to read ;).

A bit of my car back ground:
Due to my previous jobs I have driven hundreds of make/models, and many more individual cars.

I used to be hardcore Toyota fan, and personally owned couple of GT4s (still have my ST165, sold my ST205), couple of 4AGE powered vehicles (AE91 and AE101), also had 4AGZE AE101 for short time, some other odd balls passed through my hands like MTEU, 1GFE, 4/5AFE, 4EFTE, 5EFHE, 3/4SFE, 1ZZFE, 2ZZGE, 2AZFE powered cars. So I have huge preconceptions and bias about what to expect from Toyota engine.
Currently there two 1NZFE Vitz RS in the family: CVT and manual.


Before you go "Cool story Bro", I am going back to the problem at hand:

1NZFE - is the most boring engine I ever owned. The manual transmission actually brings out the all downsides of this engine. The CVT one actually feels better than the manual one (blasphemy!).

It has power curve of a diesel without the low end torque. It feels very asthmatic. No, this is not confined to this particular car. It feels that Toyota designed this engine to be coupled with a CVT or hybrid transmission.

The factory 1NZFE on a manual transmission equipped car comes with really dull throttle map. From my experiments the throttle response is identical on CVT and manual equipped cars.

I have addressed the throttle response by switching throttle body from a 1ZZFE. Now throttle response is excellent.

Another issue is the plastic manifold completely ruins the induction noise. I have addressed the restricting snorkel, which slightly improved top-end, and under high load there is a small hint of a typical twincam noise (listen to 4AGE, 2ZZGE or any Honda twin cam engine), but because of crappy econobox intake manifold it is ruined.

The transmission gear ratios are too high for it, it feels like the gear ratio is more suitable for something that revs to 7000+ rpm (in fact I think it is very close to AE101 4AGE 20v). For such low rev limiter that 1NZFE comes with, the gear ratios should have been much closer.

Why did Toyota put "RS" badge on it is beyond me, it is actually same performance as non-RS 1NZFE powered Vitz.

Even 2AZFE powered Camry that I had "pleasure" of renting and putting about 6000kms on it, was more fun to drive.

At this stage I am looking at mild cams, and fabricating intake manifold. I am not actually after raw performance (I own couple of cars that make 200+ Kw at the four wheels), I am after a fun pocket rocket that I can enjoy driving.

Any ideas what could be done to improve the power curve (read: move torque peak higher in RPM range) without changing the ECU?
I would love to have it sound at least decent (iconic twincam induction noise), without resorting to after-market filters.

Does anyone know where to get mild cams that will work with stock ECU, and aluminium intake manifold that works with 4 bolt throttle body (I only seen 3 bolt version)?
SlowVitzRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 07:11 PM   #2
m.flores.0928
 
m.flores.0928's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Yaris
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 219
The issue with this motor is there is basically no aftermarket support. Any engine, I repeat, ANY engine, can be made fun and powerful... with enough money. Key word. Money. That's the thing. Anyone can build up the NZ 1.5 if they really wanted to. It's not impossible. Basically all piston engines are fundamentally identical and can all be made into solid powerhouses.

But why would anyone want to do that when you can find a comparable Honda motor (for example) and build it up easier and cheaper with more options?

(By "comparable", I mean simply and only in terms of physical size and displacement)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
m.flores.0928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 07:32 PM   #3
Jason@SportsCar
 
Drives: Fast
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Coto de Caza
Posts: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowVitzRS View Post
I currently drive a JDM 2005 Toyota Vitz RS 5-speed manual as my daily driver.
I find it hating more and more every day I drive it :(.
There will be a point where whatever the fuel savings over my other car will not be worth from mental health point of view.

Scroll down for the actual questions if too lazy to read ;).

A bit of my car back ground:
Due to my previous jobs I have driven hundreds of make/models, and many more individual cars.

I used to be hardcore Toyota fan, and personally owned couple of GT4s (still have my ST165, sold my ST205), couple of 4AGE powered vehicles (AE91 and AE101), also had 4AGZE AE101 for short time, some other odd balls passed through my hands like MTEU, 1GFE, 4/5AFE, 4EFTE, 5EFHE, 3/4SFE, 1ZZFE, 2ZZGE, 2AZFE powered cars. So I have huge preconceptions and bias about what to expect from Toyota engine.
Currently there two 1NZFE Vitz RS in the family: CVT and manual.


Before you go "Cool story Bro", I am going back to the problem at hand:

1NZFE - is the most boring engine I ever owned. The manual transmission actually brings out the all downsides of this engine. The CVT one actually feels better than the manual one (blasphemy!).

It has power curve of a diesel without the low end torque. It feels very asthmatic. No, this is not confined to this particular car. It feels that Toyota designed this engine to be coupled with a CVT or hybrid transmission.

The factory 1NZFE on a manual transmission equipped car comes with really dull throttle map. From my experiments the throttle response is identical on CVT and manual equipped cars.

I have addressed the throttle response by switching throttle body from a 1ZZFE. Now throttle response is excellent.

Another issue is the plastic manifold completely ruins the induction noise. I have addressed the restricting snorkel, which slightly improved top-end, and under high load there is a small hint of a typical twincam noise (listen to 4AGE, 2ZZGE or any Honda twin cam engine), but because of crappy econobox intake manifold it is ruined.

The transmission gear ratios are too high for it, it feels like the gear ratio is more suitable for something that revs to 7000+ rpm (in fact I think it is very close to AE101 4AGE 20v). For such low rev limiter that 1NZFE comes with, the gear ratios should have been much closer.

Why did Toyota put "RS" badge on it is beyond me, it is actually same performance as non-RS 1NZFE powered Vitz.

Even 2AZFE powered Camry that I had "pleasure" of renting and putting about 6000kms on it, was more fun to drive.

At this stage I am looking at mild cams, and fabricating intake manifold. I am not actually after raw performance (I own couple of cars that make 200+ Kw at the four wheels), I am after a fun pocket rocket that I can enjoy driving.

Any ideas what could be done to improve the power curve (read: move torque peak higher in RPM range) without changing the ECU?
I would love to have it sound at least decent (iconic twincam induction noise), without resorting to after-market filters.

Does anyone know where to get mild cams that will work with stock ECU, and aluminium intake manifold that works with 4 bolt throttle body (I only seen 3 bolt version)?
JUN offers cams. If you want to wake it up you really need an ECU, there is more power in there than the bolt-ons will get you.
__________________
2005-2008 SCCA Solo BS National Champion
2017-2018 SCCA H Prod National Champion
Jason@SportsCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 08:32 PM   #4
NYC-SE
 
NYC-SE's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Yaris SE
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 833
I specifically bought my Yaris because of the 1NZ-FE. I thoroughly researched it and it is one of the most reliable engines out there. Boredom is vastly underrated.

Maybe a Yaris is the wrong car for you.
NYC-SE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 08:57 PM   #5
m.flores.0928
 
m.flores.0928's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Yaris
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC-SE View Post
I specifically bought my Yaris because of the 1NZ-FE. I thoroughly researched it and it is one of the most reliable engines out there. Boredom is vastly underrated.

Maybe a Yaris is the wrong car for you.


^^^^^^^ Same. Same. Same. Simplicity, reliability, inexpensive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
m.flores.0928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 06:58 PM   #6
hotracer_05
Hmm, I see...
 
hotracer_05's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Toyota Tundra and Yaris
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 193
I think you can use a 1zz intake manifold as well. that or try finding a weapon r or golden eagle one
__________________
"Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes that reason is you're and idiot"
hotracer_05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #7
Kalispel
 
Kalispel's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 Yaris SE 5MT
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Arizona (USA)
Posts: 1,059
My 1NZ-FE w/5-spd manual feels fine & peppy for what it is (& has bulletproof reliability, along with its venerable drivetrain). It does everything I need/want it to do on my daily 61 mile round-trip commute Mon-Fri, without complaint, and I have been averaging 41.4 MPG over the last 2.5+ years as a bonus. If you want a 'hot hatch' sports/performance-car, then you bought the wrong car.

Last edited by Kalispel; 03-01-2018 at 07:39 PM.
Kalispel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 07:41 PM   #8
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,347
I do agree with the OP on this thread. The Yaris is a purpose built machine, performance is last on that list. The main focus being low end torque to keep the revs low and fuel economy high as a grocery getter. It does this well but at the cost of top end, and it leads to a dull drive.

You can slap all of the bolt ons you want to a 1nz but unless you do a full on build with a custom tune like Jason has, it will still fall flat on its face above 5.5k rpm. I had full bolt ons on my 1nz I/H/E plus golden eagle intake manifold and above 5.5k rpm it stopped pulling hard.

This is where the 2zr comes in, much better area under the curve and with dual vvt-i and pulls much harder to redline.
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 07:45 PM   #9
m.flores.0928
 
m.flores.0928's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Yaris
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
I do agree with the OP on this thread. The Yaris is a purpose built machine, performance is last on that list. The main focus being low end torque to keep the revs low and fuel economy high as a grocery getter. It does this well but at the cost of top end, and it leads to a dull drive.

You can slap all of the bolt ons you want to a 1nz but unless you do a full on build with a custom tune like Jason has, it will still fall flat on its face above 5.5k rpm. I had full bolt ons on my 1nz I/H/E plus golden eagle intake manifold and above 5.5k rpm it stopped pulling hard.

This is where the 2zr comes in, much better area under the curve and with dual vvt-i and pulls much harder to redline.


Someday I'll get that 2ZR swap going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
m.flores.0928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 08:23 PM   #10
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.flores.0928 View Post
Someday I'll get that 2ZR swap going.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look at the whp numbers Tom has posted on his build you'll realize with mild bolt ons the 2zr can net you the equivalent of a 155-165 hp factory car all with the reliability of an Toyota and on a very light chassis

You look at cars advertised at 200 hp such as the gt86 but are only posting 165 whp on a dyno...
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 09:01 PM   #11
m.flores.0928
 
m.flores.0928's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Yaris
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post


If you look at the whp numbers Tom has posted on his build you'll realize with mild bolt ons the 2zr can net you the equivalent of a 155-165 hp factory car all with the reliability of an Toyota and on a very light chassis



You look at cars advertised at 200 hp such as the gt86 but are only posting 165 whp on a dyno...


Well they all advertise crank hp and not wheel hp. Of course 200 crank hp will throw down 165 hp on a (chassis) dyno


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
m.flores.0928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 09:51 PM   #12
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,347
My point being, what Tom's 2zr is putting down on the dyno being whp is comparable to heavier cars putting down slightly higher hp from factory that a lot of people go crazy about.
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 09:58 PM   #13
m.flores.0928
 
m.flores.0928's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Yaris
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
My point being, what Tom's 2zr is putting down on the dyno being whp is comparable to heavier cars putting down slightly higher hp from factory that a lot of people go crazy about.


1000% I get you. Pretty simple swap too, as far as motor swaps go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
m.flores.0928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 12:34 AM   #14
deng
Radical Dreamer
 
deng's Avatar
 
Drives: off of T9
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: MI
Posts: 137
I wish I had a C56 transmission.
__________________
If you lack driver skill, add horsepower.
deng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 08:48 AM   #15
miiser
 
miiser's Avatar
 
Drives: yaris 2009
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: greece
Posts: 327
1NR-FE is the most boring engine imo. Itís an eu spec engine 1.33 cc with 101 hp.
But there is no aftermarket support for this engine. Plus itís dual vvti so itís really hard to mess with this engineís configuration due to problems that might occur with the dual variable valve timing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
miiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 11:10 AM   #16
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.flores.0928 View Post
1000% I get you. Pretty simple swap too, as far as motor swaps go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It definitely is, especially with all the info on this forum regarding the swap!
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 04:05 PM   #17
thebarber
daily driver
 
thebarber's Avatar
 
Drives: 04 echo RS
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 5,795
supercharger wakes it up.

my blitz supercharged 2007 yaris with intake, header, 2.25" exhaust vs naturally aspirated with just intake and exhaust (no header).

powerband never bothered me naturally aspirated. if you want better gearing, run a gen1 scion xb final drive....

__________________
thebarber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 04:07 PM   #18
thebarber
daily driver
 
thebarber's Avatar
 
Drives: 04 echo RS
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 5,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
It definitely is, especially with all the info on this forum regarding the swap!
my wife wants a 2zr yaris for her next DD
__________________
thebarber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1nzfe, boring, slow

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine rebuild or engine change? big dilemma.... Elwe2k DIY / Maintenance / Service 28 02-02-2017 11:21 PM
The Nitrous Thread ChinoCharles Performance Modifications 116 02-16-2016 04:07 PM
Engine noise and Oil Lamp on bieniman DIY / Maintenance / Service 21 12-13-2010 12:47 AM
Replacing an 1NZFE by another 1NZFE ? jenfre DIY / Maintenance / Service 4 09-14-2010 05:55 PM
1NZFE engine illustration Parmas DIY / Maintenance / Service 5 07-24-2009 02:35 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:25 PM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.